[TheFinalEpic]

First thread I've started since I've been here so take it easy on me boys

First of all, a little background. I'm currently a business student studying managerial sciences, and my dad owns a small company which provides services for upscale condominiums, warehouses, and large businesses. I came on board last summer, and this will be my second summer in which I approach proprietors and attempt to sell these services to them. I use many alleys including online marketing, sales letters, and personal meetings in which I attempt to make aware our services, how we build relationships and value our customers, and the value we create when taking us on board.

I have come to realize an uncanny resemblance between game and sales, in which we must make approaches, most often which are cold leads, and attempt to "seduce" our target into a relationship with us (be it physical or a business partnership). My dad is a great mentor and even once in the boardroom took me aside and stated two things I will never forget: 1. Life is selling yourself, you are a brand, and you sell yourself to the world. 2. He literally said to me "when you meet a girl at the club do you immediately say "lets have sex" to which I replied "sometimes ". He stated sales are just like picking up a girl in which we have to create attraction first and then go in for the kill. I carry the lessons he's taught me in forging a path in which I have created an opportunity for him worth about a quarter of a million dollars, and closed. It has been my first real win, and I loved the feeling more than anything I've ever accomplished (besides closing a woman).

I have also realized that there is no right time to approach, just as with game. If we wait too long and think that the more we prepare the better we will do, we will never be ready. Sometimes you just have to pull the trigger, approach, and see what happens.

I am still in the very early stages of my sales journey, in the end I want my sales to grow this company and translate to new hires, as well as benefit all stakeholders, and be both my dad's and my legacy down the road.

I would love to hear from you guys about your experiences with sales, how you feel that it relates to game and "seduction", and how best to approach targets in the business world.

Thanks guys!

[The Beast1]

It's very similar to the point of hilarity.

I will say this, I don't trust most sales people simply because I know the tactics. They probably have a category for someone like me.

I watched a few videos of Jordan Belfort talking and doing some sales examples. I'll be honest, that type of salesman repulses me. Something about it makes me feel like I am getting screwed.

Here's a good example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVRsFCfQi04

Everything about him from his voice to the way he breaks down the sale disgusts me.

Probably because I recognize the same behavior in myself.

[TheFinalEpic]

(05-14-2014 01:07 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

It's very similar to the point of hilarity.

I will say this, I don't trust most sales people simply because I know the tactics. They probably have a category for someone like me.

I have noticed that "sales" has become a dirty word and is synonymous with scummy sales people.

I definitely don't want to be one of these people especially based on the fact we preach mutual win-win situations. We save people energy, time, headaches, and money so I do try to communicate this. I was wondering what the best ways to connect with a person are, does it have to do with just being personable, or is it something more?

Jordan Belfort was the definition of scummy salesman haha, however the way he created comfort was like no other.

[jamaicabound]

I would definately agree with this. First off I feel to an extent there are born sales people. There are some people who just naturally have that charm and charisma and people gravitate towards them. They will be successful in business and wommen and people in general.

Were not all that lucky, some of us have to work a bit more or it doesn't come as natural thats fine. First thing is not being afraid to make the approach whether in business or with women, not being afraid to ask for a sale or sex or close the deal basically. It's quickly developing a rapport, communicating what you have to offer and closing. Same whether its women or sales.

I think generally someone who's good wih one will be good with the other. the one thing I would caution sales guys with women is realize that they are women and not a client, I have seen some buddies in sales come across to women a bit too smooth or used car salesman like and had it hurt their game but overall I think this is a great analogy.

[PrimeTime32]

In my experience sales is like game because most of the time you are selling to women either directly or indirectly. Can't name how many times I've sold to a dude that said, "let me talk my wife first." I know that sounds beta to me and a lot of guys here but that is just facts. Like they say happy wife happy life.

[TheFinalEpic]

(05-14-2014 01:47 PM)PrimeTime32 Wrote:  

In my experience sales is like game because most of the time you are selling to women either directly or indirectly. Can't name how many times I've sold to a dude that said, "let me talk my wife first." I know that sounds beta to me and a lot of guys here but that is just facts. Like they say happy wife happy life.

Yeah, honestly I've heard that for products on a large basis. Car salesmen, appliances, all that jazz. Personally, I don't run into that issue as I am speaking directly to the decision maker every time.

Keep the advice coming guys, any tips on comfort building/building rapport?

[seaAltair]

The two guys I know who had the most acceleration along the game learning curve have day jobs in sales.

The best player I met told me salesmanship is a byproduct of being good at seduction

[WestIndianArchie]

Much better thread on the topic

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-14543.html

[seaAltair]

Bypassing shit tests and obstacles is similar to overcoming objections in sales. It's important to listen to the other party in order to flush out their needs.

When I was brand new I'd either talk too little or talk too much. The latter would make me miss out on important details that could have helped me close; I wasn't listening to the other person

[XXL]

Game = Sales

In sales, whether it's B2B or B2C, you figure out who is your client and where do they hang out, get in contact with them [or get a referral by someone they already know], talk to them about stuff they like and engage them around stuff outside of your business to get as much info about them as you can, let some emotional connection, become cool in their eyes and finally you arrive at the point that they listen to you and that's when you attack. In short, you listen to their shit and use their shit against them instead of pitching your shit straight away.

It's the same in the game IMO.

You open and get them to talk about stuff, let them do it while you listen and pay attention to what they say and who they are then you figure out what makes them tick and use all that info to escalate/seduce when they're open to you. This is how you create an illusion that it's her seductive personality that's winning you over, not her tits and ass. Qualification for the win

[Jroades26]

(05-14-2014 02:08 PM)XXL Wrote:  

Game = Sales

In sales, whether it's B2B or B2C, you figure out who is your client and where do they hang out, get in contact with them [or get a referral by someone they already know], talk to them about stuff they like and engage them around stuff outside of your business to get as much info about them as you can, let some emotional connection, become cool in their eyes and finally you arrive at the point that they listen to you and that's when you attack. In short, you listen to their shit and use their shit against them instead of pitching your shit straight away.

It's the same in the game IMO.

You open and get them to talk about stuff, let them do it while you listen and pay attention to what they say and who they are then you figure out what makes them tick and use all that info to escalate/seduce when they're open to you. This is how you create an illusion that it's her seductive personality that's winning you over, not her tits and ass. Qualification for the win

The only difference is, if you don't want to be a scummy salesman, you've got to be honest. Don't lie to the prospect, don't stretch the truth.

I'm good at sales, really good, and just mediocre at game. With sales I've always had the attitude to say exactly what I think, the straight truth, and talk A LOT. I listen to everything they have to say, but I also talk a lot.

A lot of the attitude is the same however, you have to be confident, clear, concise, and you have to give the impression they need you more than you need them.

Last difference, with game you go on to the next one quickly. With sales, persistence is the most important thing, contacting over and over and over.

[TheFinalEpic]

In a consultation class earlier this year, we viewed real estate agents and how they considered themselves more along the lines of a consultant than a sales person. I enjoyed the comparison, in which they stated they wanted their client to benefit just as much as they did.

I have been taking this approach to build relationships in business, and I figure that if anything, the value of a relationship is worth more than that of a sale in many instances. Relationships get you in with not only one person but allows for smooth integration to find other prospects as well.

[Greek kamaki]

Salesmanship has nothing to do with women.The reason is that the clients with money are not at all similar to women so nothing applies to them.What helps with women is hardcore psychiatry and psychology knowledge the kind of which specialists receive.To use it to get women is considered non proffesssional and can put sb in danger.

[TheFinalEpic]

(05-14-2014 02:21 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Salesmanship has nothing to do with women.The reason is that the clients with money are not at all similar to women so nothing applies to them.What helps with women is hardcore psychiatry and psychology knowledge the kind of which specialists receive.To use it to get women is considered non proffesssional and can put sb in danger.

I'm talking about the initial meeting to the close specifically. Maintaining a harem and such obviously is more as if the girl is already "sold" on you. We are always selling ourselves in this life I feel.

[Tengen]

I Hate Sales

[TheFinalEpic]

(05-14-2014 04:36 PM)Tengen Wrote:  

I Hate Sales

Haha, very cynical Tengen. I too was approached by one of those very companies, an alarm company which did door to door sales, and I could never do it. However, this is different, we have a history of providing amazing service, and get called into new buildings on a frequent basis. I am doing this sort of "cold-calling" on newer companies which may have never heard of us and spreading the word.

They get around pyramid schemes by having some sort of product to sell. Its typical "network marketing" but it is a sham for anyone under the top level.

[Hotwheels]

I'll just leave this here

[BadgerHut]

(05-14-2014 01:13 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

I have noticed that "sales" has become a dirty word and is synonymous with scummy sales people.

The normal prole's concept of a "salesman" is similar to that of a "player" - they have this stereotype of a pushy, sleazy guy browbeating somebody.

What's funny about this is that the highly successful salesmen and players have little in common with the stereotypes - they tend to be understated and really good at creating comfort. Because they are great at managing the state of their mark, none of their customers/paramours feel like they've been swindled.

Just another thing that your average prole "knows" that just ain't so.

[BadgerHut]

(05-14-2014 02:20 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

In a consultation class earlier this year, we viewed real estate agents and how they considered themselves more along the lines of a consultant than a sales person. I enjoyed the comparison, in which they stated they wanted their client to benefit just as much as they did.

I have been taking this approach to build relationships in business, and I figure that if anything, the value of a relationship is worth more than that of a sale in many instances. Relationships get you in with not only one person but allows for smooth integration to find other prospects as well.

A number of the good salesmen I know are like this - they see themselves as facilitators of the customers' business, giving them guidance on the product line, etc. They get a commission, of course, but they do their jobs well enough that they can ride on the relationships and trust and not have to push product on anybody.