[Screwston]

I bought 1984 used for a few dollars because of the forum. I've heard Brave New World is another good one that's similar so will be checking it out. Any other good ones to add to the list?

[Thomas the Rhymer]

Fahrenheit 451, by Ray Bradbury
The Iron Heel, by Jack London
To a lesser extent, A Clockwork Orange, although that one requires some familiarity with Russian or a related Slavic language to be able to comfortably read.

Some Philip K Dick novels explore similar themes:
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
Martian Time-slip

[DarkKing]

I see you are basically looking at dystopian books. You also want movie recommendations?

Another book in the same stream is "Fahrenheit 451".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451

There is also a Russian novel called "We".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_(novel)

There are actually a lot of books and movies in this type of genre, it all depends on what type of things you are looking for.

[draguer]

(04-29-2014 03:36 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

To a lesser extent, A Clockwork Orange, although that one requires some familiarity with Russian or a related Slavic language to be able to comfortably read.

Interested as to your reasons for this.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(04-29-2014 03:45 AM)draguer Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 03:36 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

To a lesser extent, A Clockwork Orange, although that one requires some familiarity with Russian or a related Slavic language to be able to comfortably read.

Interested as to your reasons for this.

Well I'm from East European stock and I know a bit of my parent's language (not Russian, but close enough), and only because of that I found the slang in Clockwork Orange pretty easy to understand. I guess with a good enough glossary anyone should be fine with it, but I personally would find it annoying to constantly have to look up the meanings of words while I'm reading.

Or maybe you're asking why I included it in the list? Mainly because the idea of bureaucratic government which mostly messes up peoples lives in the name of helping them.

[shameus_o'reaaly]

^^^Anthony Burgess' The Wanting Seed is, I think even better than A Clockwork Orange.
It's a really messed-up about an overpopulated future Britain where births are limited by law and policed, gays are the ruling party, and society swings between liberal and authoritarian policies to address the population problem and food supply.
Burgess' Catholic background really influenced these two books- Clockwork Orange addresses free will, and Wanting Seed draws on quality of life and right to life, as determined by birth control, abortion, war and homosexuality.

It's funny in a really bleak way- one example is of the government encouraging people to be gay so as to rein in the birth rate, going so far as to put up posters that announce "it's sapiens to be homo"

[draguer]

(04-29-2014 04:06 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 03:45 AM)draguer Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 03:36 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

To a lesser extent, A Clockwork Orange, although that one requires some familiarity with Russian or a related Slavic language to be able to comfortably read.

Interested as to your reasons for this.

Well I'm from East European stock and I know a bit of my parent's language (not Russian, but close enough), and only because of that I found the slang in Clockwork Orange pretty easy to understand. I guess with a good enough glossary anyone should be fine with it, but I personally would find it annoying to constantly have to look up the meanings of words while I'm reading.

Or maybe you're asking why I included it in the list? Mainly because the idea of bureaucratic government which mostly messes up peoples lives in the name of helping them.

That was my ignorance coming through. I have only seen the movie (around 5 years ago) and had forgotten that the slang was of Russian origin. Thanks for explaining.

[The Beast1]

I'm a huge fan of dystopian genre books.

Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged is another good one to look at. It's on my increasingly long list of books to read.

[eradicator]

Animal Farm

[Sombro]

(04-29-2014 04:14 AM)shameus_oreaaly Wrote:  

^^^Anthony Burgess' The Wanting Seed is, I think even better than A Clockwork Orange.
It's a really messed-up about an overpopulated future Britain where births are limited by law and policed, gays are the ruling party, and society swings between liberal and authoritarian policies to address the population problem and food supply.
Burgess' Catholic background really influenced these two books- Clockwork Orange addresses free will, and Wanting Seed draws on quality of life and right to life, as determined by birth control, abortion, war and homosexuality.

It's funny in a really bleak way- one example is of the government encouraging people to be gay so as to rein in the birth rate, going so far as to put up posters that announce "it's sapiens to be homo"

Check out Anthony Burgess' "1985." Similar to "1984" but with trade unions and Muslims running Britain. Not too far off from how things seem to turn out. Sad book, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_(Antho...ess_novel)

Also, "Brave New World Revisited" is good. Huxley's non-fiction re-analysis decades later.

Quote:

In Brave New World Revisited, he concluded that the world was becoming like Brave New World much faster than he originally thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_W..._Revisited

[berserk]

It would be better if both books had never been written. I am convinced they have served as mandatory "how to" reading for elites.

[Sp5]

"We" by Evgeny Zamyatin. It's as good as BNW and 1984.

If I remember The Wanting Seed has a scene where they send men and women to fight each other on a battlefield just to reduce population. Also, man in a can - canned human flesh.

[BlurredSevens]

(04-29-2014 07:51 AM)frenchie Wrote:  

Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged is another good one to look at. It's on my increasingly long list of books to read.

I'd go with The Fountainhead before Atlas Shrugged, if you haven't already. Thematically similar and a more enjoyable read.

For the OP: "Stranger in a Strange Land" would be a good one to consider.

[Sombro]

(04-29-2014 07:51 AM)frenchie Wrote:  

I'm a huge fan of dystopian genre books.

Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged is another good one to look at. It's on my increasingly long list of books to read.

Don't forget Rand's "Anthem." It even predated "1984" by a few years.
It's a pretty quick read, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthem_(novella)

[Tail Gunner]

(04-29-2014 02:31 AM)Screwston Wrote:  

I bought 1984 used for a few dollars because of the forum. I've heard Brave New World is another good one that's similar so will be checking it out. Any other good ones to add to the list?

Here is the trilogy to power:

1) Animal Farm -- How to seize power through revolution.

2) 1984 -- How to retain power through brute force and surveillance.

3) This Perfect Day -- How to make yourself a god. (By Ira Levin, the author of The Boys from Brazil, Rosemary’s Baby, and The Stepford Wives)

Quote:

The story is set in a seemingly perfect global society. Uniformity is the defining feature; there is only one language and all ethnic groups have been eugenically merged into one race called “The Family.“ The world is ruled by a central computer called UniComp that has been programmed to keep every single human on the surface of the earth in check. People are continually drugged by means of regular injections so that they can never realize their potential as human beings, but will remain satisfied and cooperative. They are told where to live, when to eat, whom to marry, when to reproduce. Even the basic facts of nature are subject to the UniComp's will — men do not grow facial hair, women do not develop breasts, and it only rains at night.

http://www.amazon.com/This-Perfect-Day-A...160598129X

___________________________________________________________

How to prevent all of the above: The Weapon Shops of Isher, by A. E. van Vogt:

Quote:

The Isher/Weapon Shops novels are very rare examples of Golden Age science fiction that explicitly discuss the right to keep and bear arms, specifically guns. Indeed, the motto of the Weapon Shops, repeated several times, is "The right to buy weapons is the right to be free". Van Vogt's guns have virtually magical properties, and can only be used in self-defense.

The political philosophy of the Weapon Shops is minimalist. They will not interfere with the corrupt imperial monarchy of the Isher government, on the grounds that men always have a government of the type they deserve: no government, however bad, exists without at least the tacit consent of the governed. The mission of the Weapon Shops therefore is merely to offer single individuals the right to protect themselves with a firearm, or, in cases of fraud, access to a "Robin Hood" alternative court system that judges and awards compensation from large, imperial merchant combines to cheated individuals. Because the population has access to this alternative system of justice, the Isher government cannot take the final step toward totalitarianism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weapon_Shops_of_Isher

[Screwston]

Thanks everyone. Dark King - I just like thinking about the future so anything good and crazy. Nothing to out there that isn't realistic though.

[MattW]

As have already been said, Animal Farm and Fahrenheit 451 are the two that stick out most to me. Related but somewhat more tangential is Lord of the Flies. They're all really easy reads and pretty short.

[samsonlackawanna]

One more for Zamytatin's "We". Orwell thought Huxley ripped off BNW from it. Also, check out Vonnegut's "Player Piano". Not the best, but one of my favourite Vonnegut's

From wiki:
Kurt Vonnegut said that in writing Player Piano (1952), he "cheerfully ripped off the plot of Brave New World, whose plot had been cheerfully ripped off from Yevgeny Zamyatin's We.

[Tail Gunner]

(04-30-2014 08:13 PM)samsonlackawanna Wrote:  

One more for Zamytatin's "We". Orwell thought Huxley ripped off BNW from it. Also, check out Vonnegut's "Player Piano". Not the best, but one of my favourite Vonnegut's

From wiki:
Kurt Vonnegut said that in writing Player Piano (1952), he "cheerfully ripped off the plot of Brave New World, whose plot had been cheerfully ripped off from Yevgeny Zamyatin's We.

In books as in films, there are a limited number of plots. I just read the plot for "We" and it sounds very similar to The Reefs of Space from the Starchild Trilogy by Frederik Pohl.

Quote:

Steve Ryeland had always believed in the Plan of Man, and his brilliant engineering work had greatly aided its progress. But now, suddenly, he was branded a Risk, made to wear the Security Collar, treated like a slave, finally sent to the Body Bank to become spare parts for others faithful to the Plan.

As he formed up with the others every day, waiting for the call to give up an arm, a leg, or some vital organ, he dreamed of escape to the place where freedom was still possible — the Reefs of Space. Most everyone said it was a myth, but he knew better. But what could he do about the Collar?

http://www.chris-winter.com/Erudition/Re...child.html

[Sp5]

Just remembered Robert Silverberg's The World Inside which is set in a world where tens of billions of people live in mile-high towers.

The plot device is that sex is encouraged, and men can freely roam around the building asking women to fuck. Women can't really say no, either.

But you can't leave the building.

[Tail Gunner]

(04-30-2014 11:57 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  

Just remembered Robert Silverberg's The World Inside which is set in a world where tens of billions of people live in mile-high towers.

The plot device is that sex is encouraged, and men can freely roam around the building asking women to fuck. Women can't really say no, either.

But you can't leave the building.

So, your options are limited?

[player]

Some good books recommended!

To add to them: Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

It's set in the United States in 2081, when changes to the Constitution mean everyone is fully equal. Anyone with privilege - above average intelligence, looks, height, athleticism, etc - must wear handicaps to ensure they are equal to everyone else.

Along with 1984, Brave New World, and Atlas Shrugged, it predicts the dystopia that progressivism is leading us towards.

[Art Pimp]

(04-29-2014 04:06 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

To a lesser extent, A Clockwork Orange, although that one requires some familiarity with Russian or a related Slavic language to be able to comfortably read.

This is a rather ridiculous statement. Most editions of the book have a glossary in the back and I know many people with no knowledge of these languages who have read, enjoyed, and understood the book.

[The Lizard of Oz]

Screwston, I read most of the books mentioned in this thread, and to be honest with the partial exception of 1984 I don't really like any of them. I think that when writers start writing about the future they generally suck; they just have a few more or less abstract ideas and everyone's tend to be basically the same (one reason all these books are so similar to each other). Writers tend to be better when they write from feeling about things they've experienced and know something about.

1984 has some great parts in the beginning because Orwell was in many ways writing from his feeling about England right after World War II, with its general deprivation, rationing, and gloomy atmosphere. And a lot of that comes through in the early parts of the book which makes some of the other things that are added on top of that much more memorable and great at times. But the book goes downhill later on, especially with the introduction of the female character.

This may seem like a complete non-sequitur because it has absolutely nothing to do with this genre, but it occurred to me that a book you might really enjoy is something called "An African in Greenland". This is a memoir by a dude who became obsessed with Greenland, of all places, as a kid growing up in Togo which is a small country in Africa. He determined that he would go there, and amazingly enough actually did and spent a lot of time there. It is extremely enjoyable and well-written, and has some choice observations about weird Eskimo customs, Eskimo pussy, eating blubber, and all sorts of strange but true things. Also the part of the memoir about him growing up in Togo is interesting in its own right. Check it out!

For what it's worth, I find these types of books, when they're good, to be 100 times better than some intellectual type trying to imagine what the future will look like based on some general ideas.

[rdvirus]

Check out Equilibrium. "1984" style... watched the movie before I read 1984 and can definitely see it was inspired by the book.

"In a futuristic world, a strict regime has eliminated war by suppressing emotions: books, art and music are strictly forbidden and feeling is a crime punishable by death. Cleric John Preston (Bale) is a top ranking government agent responsible for destroying those who resist the rules. When he misses a dose of Prozium, a mind-altering drug that hinders emotion, Preston, who has been trained to enforce the strict laws of the new regime, suddenly becomes the only person capable of overthrowing it."