[runsonmagic]

Witchhunts are becoming more and more common. A full list of people purged from their jobs for their political or social views can be found here. The most recent and famous is the Modzilla CEO. Now it looks like another tech startup founder is about to go.

I'm considering putting together an article for ROK on surviving witchhunts, but before I do, I'd like to see how the collective wisdom of the forum would respond to this situation.

Imagine your RVF account is connected to your real name. A liberal staff writer publishes a viral piece on an unpopular opinion you hold. A former girlfriend spreads a false abuse rumor. An employee part of a protected minority calls you bigoted because you don't share their politics. The mob realizes you aren't one of their tribe.

Whatever the accusation, your off hand comment or personally held view spins into a scandal as cultural elites and twitter mobs call for your resignation. Industry peers begin to distance themselves from you anticipating a purge. What would you do?

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Stand your ground, and take the war to them by accusing them of being censuring bigots who are trampling your free speech rights. Never apologize. Be aggressive. It's the only language these vultures understand.

[Basil Ransom]

That's like asking, "How do I make sure my parents keep paying me allowance even when I royally piss them off?" If you're going to be a bitch, you're going to have suck some dick.

Public conformity is a job requirement. The only solutions are anonymity and not having the job in the first place. It's possible that if you had enough leverage you could avoid getting sacked, but even then, that looks unlikely, Mozilla is a case in point.

If you're self employed or employed by people who don't give a shit, then take a stand.

[Courage Reborn]

The best long term plan for doing you it is to make fuck you money.

Great idea OP. I look forward to reading the finished piece.

[Occulusrex]

It really depends on a lot of factors. If your business is not dependent on the mob buying your product (e.g. PUA ebooks), then it has absolutely no impact. In fact, the publicity may be good for business. Same if your clients are not too in tune/dont care about social media (e.g. selling guns, farm equipment, etc.)

If your on the side of the liberal elites, again no impact. In fact, after all the hoopla you can probably run for office. Scandals will get you elected.

Otherwise your screwed, just resign for the good of the business. As you accumulate more wealth, you have have less freedom to truly speak what is on your mind.

[ryanf]

I may do a post soon on ways to cover your online tracks. I've been slowly erasing my online identity over the last few months, quite successfully. I'm sure you could find me if you looked hard enough, but I'm almost at a point where it wouldn't matter.

If they can't find you out, then you don't have a problem. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[runsonmagic]

(04-27-2014 04:42 PM)ryanf Wrote:  

I may do a post soon on ways to cover your online tracks. I've been slowly erasing my online identity over the last few months, quite successfully. I'm sure you could find me if you looked hard enough, but I'm almost at a point where it wouldn't matter.

If they can't find you out, then you don't have a problem. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I'd be curious to see what you write on this. Link the post in this thread when you're done.

[Foolsgo1d]

Your best bet is to do damage limitation before you get into the sector you work in.

- Human Resources
- IT
- Engineering (depends)
- Aerospace
- Office work
- Catering & hospitality
- Retail
- Tech startups

All of these sectors have a juggernaut in their midst which can and will ruin you if you're not careful. I've worked in both retail and catering and whilst you may get away with some shit, you will not have much leeway on sexist jokes or behaviour which is outside the norm.

You're painting a bullseye on your back if you even talk about innocent sexual things.

[kbell]

I'm curious on how Donald Sterling will handle it.

[KorbenDallas]

An amusing thing about Sterling is this exchange:

DS: It's the world! You go to Israel, the blacks are just treated like dogs.
V: So do you have to treat them like that too?
DS: The white Jews, there's white Jews and black Jews, do you understand?
V: And are the black Jews less than the white Jews?
DS: A hundred percent, fifty, a hundred percent.
V: And is that right?
DS: It isn't a question—we don't evaluate what's right and wrong, we live in a society. We live in a culture. We have to live within that culture.

There was someone in the Jew's thread talking about how its kumbaya in Israel among the different ethnicities there. Apparently not according to Sterling.

But anyway....I hope he shows no weakness. The conversation was illegally recorded and should have no impact on anything. America should not be modeling itself off the Soviet System of "Political Correctness" where saying the wrong thing can cause you to lose your business.

[Beyond Borders]

(04-27-2014 02:21 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  

Witchhunts are becoming more and more common.

Yep, I've even seen them break out on the RVF.

That said, not sure if I agree they're more common.

I hate them. I do everything I can to distance myself when I see them happening.

To me they're one of the ugliest characteristics of human nature.

But I think they've always been common and always will be.

[turkishcandy]

I've thought about this a lot before. And I don't see a permanent, dependable solution other than being self employed, and if that's not an option, at least not being a corporate slave. If HR owns your ass or the masses can decide your fate, the very air you breath can't be politically incorrect, let alone writing a manosphere blog or expressing anything slightly unpopular.

Coming back to the question, if you are vulnerable due to your job or position and the witchhunt began and you absolutely can't afford to lose your job, the pragmatical solution would be making a swift, clear, full, (in)sincere apology to everyone whose sensitive feelings you might have hurt in order to save your job and let the dust settle for a while, and then start working on a mayhem plan to slowly get back at those cunts. In essense, live today, fight tomorrow.

[Beyond Borders]

(04-27-2014 07:19 PM)turkishcandy Wrote:  

And I don't see a permanent, dependable solution other than being self employed

This.

The #1 reason I live the life I do.

It frees me from the tyranny of the majority.

[ryanf]

(04-27-2014 04:51 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  

(04-27-2014 04:42 PM)ryanf Wrote:  

I may do a post soon on ways to cover your online tracks. I've been slowly erasing my online identity over the last few months, quite successfully. I'm sure you could find me if you looked hard enough, but I'm almost at a point where it wouldn't matter.

If they can't find you out, then you don't have a problem. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I'd be curious to see what you write on this. Link the post in this thread when you're done.

Will do, I need to do some solid research to make sure I'm giving good advice when I do it.

[magellan]

Fuck you money cures all.

[rekruler]

It frees me from the tyranny of the majority.

That's the funny thing. It's not the tyranny of the majority. I doubt a significant number of people really give a shit about Brandon Eich's views on homosexuality or even Sperling's desire to not have his girlfriend post pictures of herself in the presence of black dudes for all the world to see. No. In the modern West, it's the majority that lives in constant terror of a small, vociferously vocal and organized minority, a minority that is becoming increasingly intolerable as it strives to de-facto outlaw ever more ways of living life, and even thinking thoughts. Unfortunately, the majority are just a herd of disorganized sheep with no agency and are docilely led to the slaughter. It's been a long ass while since the majority exercised any power whatsoever in this country, let alone tyrannical power.

[runsonmagic]

Let me ask another question.

Who do we know who has survived a witchhunt?

Might be some lessons there.

[iknowexactly]

I almost got thrown out of grad school for running my mouth, I was in my ,mid 30's and did NOT have time to start another career.

They started telling me what was wrong with me , told I could either drop out for a while or go into therapy.

I kissed ass and went into therapy.

"Whatever you say, boss."

Today I made over $600 sitting in an office with the degree I got there.

[Roosh]

The best way to answer this is to ask yourself who has survived witch hunts so far and then analyze their situation.

[runsonmagic]

(04-27-2014 11:37 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  

Let me ask another question.

Who do we know who has survived a witchhunt?

Might be some lessons there.

(04-28-2014 01:02 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

The best way to answer this is to ask yourself who has survived witch hunts so far and then analyze their situation.

I was hoping you'd speak on this Roosh, having survived a few yourself.

It seems like being self-employed, having an anti-fragile persona that gets stronger with controversy rather than weaker, and never apologizing or backing down are all part of the situation.

[Roosh]

My situation is well-known, but the key is not to break any laws that could get the police or government after you. If a witch hunt accuses you of rape, but there was no rape, you will survive it as long as you are self-employed and can leverage that attention into gaining additional business. Your hands must always be clean.

Another point is to attack back---don't just sit there without pointed response. Have you noticed that the people we've skewered on ROK has been silent against me (I think only Anil Dash made one tweet about me after I wrote about him and Nitasha Tiku)? Witch hunts are not unlike riot mobs where they feel protected when attacking at once. But if you single them out, it's amusing how quickly they get scared. You must continue to keeping your hands clean in the counterattack by not resorting to defamation/libel. You must destroy them with the truth.

[Drazen]

Attention span is short with these things. You lay low, have "no comment" and take a vacation somewhere. You resurface a week or two later, no one cares anymore. If you escalate your aggression or fight or hell, even acknowledge, they will too. The only real option for aggressive behavior is to do what your lawyer tells you to do. Threat of lawsuits, defamation, cease and desist, may help as well. Its a case by case scenario, but in general you become hard to reach in the immediate time of impact.

[KorbenDallas]

Vox Day is the go to guy to look at in terms of surviving a witch hunt. He was kicked out of SFWA (Science Fiction Writers of America) proceeded to start his own publishing company, his sales are higher than ever, 2 other prominent writers just left SFWA in support of him, and one of his short stories was just nominated for a Hugo (an award that is normally dominated by lefty publishing houses).

He never backed down, constantly highlighted his opponents hypocrisy and underhanded tactics and its gotten to the point where is opponents fear even writing his name on his blog because anytime someone attacks him he punches back twice as hard with the truth on his side.

The moral? Don't back down and don't live in the US.

[KorbenDallas]

Vox's Advice on How to Survive a Witchhunt

Below I've posted the meat of his response. Click on the link though to give him traffic.

Quote:

Recognize that it is happening. In the case of my own purging by SFWA, I was initially caught a little by surprise because my nominal offense was so minor, had previously been committed by literally scores of other members, (including three members of the Board), and carried a specific penalty that had already been applied. It took me nearly a day to realize that they were going to take the inch I had given them and run a marathon with it. By the second day, I knew they intended to expel me at any cost, by any means necessary.

Don't think that you can reason your way out of it. Most people have the causality backwards. They think the purge is taking place due to whatever it is that they did or said. That's not the case. It is taking place because of who you are and what you represent to them. The truth is that the faction behind your prospective purge already wanted you out and they are simply using the nominal reason given as an excuse to get rid of you. Despite my long and detailed defense, I never imagined for one second that it would be successful. In presenting it, I had other objectives in mind.

Do not apologize! They will press you hard for an apology and repeatedly imply that if you will just apologize, all will be forgiven. Don't be fooled! They are simply looking for a public confession that will confirm their accusations, give them PR cover, and provide them with the necessary ammunition to expel you. Apologizing does nothing more than hand them the very weapon they are seeking.
Expose their excesses. Most of the time, these purges are committed at least partially outside the organization's established rules and forms. You may not be an expert, but some of the people following along will be. Make sure every step in the process, and every piece of communication you receive from them, is publicized. They will pull out all the stops to hide their actions in order to avoid criticism, and in some of the more egregious cases, ridicule. Nine months later, SFWA STILL has not publicly admitted that I was the member expelled by the SFWA Board, and they even filed a DMCA takedown notice against my ISP to hide their accusations against me from public scrutiny. So shine the light of truth on the insects and watch them scurry.


Do not resign! Their real goal is not to formally purge you, but to encourage you to quit on your own. That allows them to publicly wash their hands of it and claim that your decision to leave was not their fault. They will often enlist more reasonable allies to approach you and tell you that it's not possible for you to continue any more, they will appeal to the good of the organization, and they will go on and on about the importance of an amicable departure. Don't fall for it. Don't do their dirty work for them. Make them take the full responsibility for throwing you out, thereby ensuring they have to suffer the long-term consequences of their actions.


Make the rubble bounce. Whether you survive the purge or whether you don't, observe who has defined himself as ally, enemy, or neutral during the process. The choices will pleasantly surprise you about as often as they disappoint you. Target the enemy at every given opportunity. Benefit your allies at every given opportunity, even if they are the lukest of lukewarm friends. Treat neutrals fairly, assume nothing of them either way, and refrain from judging them or attempting to convince them to take a side. Never forget that it is better to be respected than loved by your allies, and it is better to be feared than respected by your enemies. Your enemies will never love you, so don't spare a moment's thought about trying to appease them.


Start nothing, finish everything. Reward your enemies who leave you alone by leaving them in peace. Reward your enemies who insist on continuing hostilities with responses that are disproportionate to their provocations. And never forget, no matter what they do, they cannot touch your mind, they cannot touch your heart, and they cannot touch your soul. Matthew 10:28.

[K Galt]

So Vox saw this thread and wrote a 7 point list at his blog on his thoughts based on his experience with the SFWA:

http://www.voxday.blogspot.com/2014/04/m...hhunt.html

EDIT - DOH...you beat me to posting the link by seconds, KorbenD.