[Vitriol]

I've never heard this from an American girl, but I'm also very cynical and don't trust the foreign girls who say this either (I've only heard this from foreign girls in my life even though I'm American). How much stock should we put into this and how much is just cultural differences where they just throw it around more easily? I've heard this from girls from non English speaking countries after fucking just ONCE, so I don't really take it seriously at that point.

[cocoballs]

I've heard it from girls from everywhere. It really doesn't mean much. She loves you today, hates you tomorrow.

If she said it after one time fucking she's either a total retard or a really shitty liar.

[iknowexactly]

If you are looking for reliability as is implied by your post, I feel the more important issue is to lower belief in words altogether and instead SEEK; for sustained (over 2 months) periods

1) look for sustained deferential behavior. ( Ex. "Is it OK if I....")
2) reliability in proactively contacting you ( She initiates contact reliably not just in response, when you lapse she makes up for it by doing more than 50% of contacting)
3) Absence of all forms of rebellion. Even in the Kama Sutra they mention any girl that snaps at you should be abandoned immediately. There's a subtle but cold defiance in a bitch's tone that you learn to recognize, which means you are wasting your time. A girl who loves you will still complain and protest from time to time, but there will be a pleading undertone there.
4) Openly changing/maintaining things about herself to suit you. Ex one of my GF said her roommates said she was very skinny. I said I like that. She said, OK, I'll stay that way for you.
5) Lack of image management, she's quite open about expressing being very interested in you daily.

The key trick here is spotting covert rebellion. In more traditional cultures, you won't see direct rebellion,, AVOID

1) Her changing the subject when you want an answer about something.
2) Anything but the words "OK" and/or "Yes" when you tell her to do something. Sometimes of course things are impossible, for instance she is working. Then she should offer alternative
3) Questioning your motives ("Why do you want me to look for an apartment for you?")
4) Laughing in response to being told to do something. ( I found this is the Philippines is a way to avoid saying "no.")
5) Slow responding to your contacts/ Non responding is really bad=indifference.
6) Mentioning other men.
7) Claiming she has no way to do something.
8) Promising to do it later and then not doing it.
9) Sustained (more than 1-2 days) of periods incommunicado. She's fucking someone else in the islands. Which islands? It doesn't matter lolzlzl.
10) Mentioning things that cost a lot of money. (Ex. I've had two girls start sending me pictures of houses for sale. Americans can't own houses in Phils. Only the spouse.....)
11) in a related but not precisely under the heading of "rebellion", is the maxim "avoid unfortunate people." Unfortunate people END UP being "rebellious", maybe not because they feel rebellious but because they DON'T HAVE CONTROL OVER THEIR LIVES-- so they CAN'T help you. Ex. A girl who is always complaining about being sick and broke may claim she loves you, but she can't DO anything about it because she doesn't want sex due to feeling bad, can't meet you because she can't afford it, etc.

In any culture, mentioning or implying the word "busy" is a red red flag. She should NEVER be too busy for the center of her life, and you should be the center of her life if she is serious about you.

Seeing sustained, uninterrupted patterns of reliable BEHAVIOR, which can include but never be limited to words, is the only proof of real affection.

NEVER BELIEVE EXCUSES. 97%, no 99.75% OF THE TIME THEY ARE NEVER THE TRUTH, THEY REFLECT COVERT CURRENT BETRAYAL, AND THEY ALWAYS PRECEDE OPEN BETRAYAL.

[iknowexactly]

(04-23-2014 11:21 PM)cocoballs Wrote:  

I've heard it from girls from everywhere. It really doesn't mean much. She loves you today, hates you tomorrow.

If she said it after one time fucking she's either a total retard or a really shitty liar.

This. Women don't love in a consuming way like beta men, or alphas to whom a woman has proven her loyalty, do. It means "I'm highly amused at this time."

They love you like you love a couch, or at most like a car. You might have some attachment to it, but even if you crash your 1965 Ferrari Dino ( or whatever) if someone bought you another one you wouldn't be devastated, or feel there was a true spiritual difference to you.

[Saga]

Depends on the language and culture. For instance in German, "ich liebe dich" (literally "I love you") is equivalent to the English "I like you"...so in that case a German girl speaking English could easily say "I love you" when she's really trying to say she likes you. This happens with German even though it's related to English and Germans speak excellent English, so it can definitely happen with other languages too. Plus, other cultures are a lot more effusive if not romantic in casual speech than English-speaking countries...those of Latinate languages in particular (Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian...).

[Travesty]

(04-23-2014 11:56 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

This. Women don't love in a consuming way like beta men, or alphas to whom a woman has proven her loyalty, do. It means "I'm highly amused at this time."

They love you like you love a couch, or at most like a car. You might have some attachment to it, but even if you crash your 1965 Ferrari Dino ( or whatever) if someone bought you another one you wouldn't be devastated, or feel there was a true spiritual difference to you.

[Beyond Borders]

(04-23-2014 11:12 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

I've never heard this from an American girl

(04-23-2014 11:56 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

This. Women don't love in a consuming way like beta men, or alphas to whom a woman has proven her loyalty, do. It means "I'm highly amused at this time."

They love you like you love a couch, or at most like a car. You might have some attachment to it, but even if you crash your 1965 Ferrari Dino ( or whatever) if someone bought you another one you wouldn't be devastated, or feel there was a true spiritual difference to you.

Sometimes I wonder what kind of girls you guys are dating in America.

I'm no fan of American broads but when I hear stuff like (have seen all of these lately):

American women are never feminine.
American women don't say I love you.
American women never act like they're into you.
American women never spoil their men.
American women never cook for you or show up with food, beer, and other gifts.
American women don't show up and clean your house out of the blue.
American women get over breakups immediately.
American women never show affection.
American women are never devastated when they lose you.

I simply cannot relate at all...

And it's not that my game is the tightest around either - I'd be the first to admit it could use some focus and overall work. But I don't hear any of my buddies in the states with decent game making the complaints above either.

Not to hate on anyone, but I have to say that there seems to be a lot of guys projecting their own experiences onto others and generalizing about American broads from that perspective. Not trying to imply that guys with these experiences don't have game, but maybe it's something about the style of your game and the way you relate to women that's causing these things?

I hope this isn't perceived as a humble brag; these types of posts really do just confuse me and I think it should be pointed out that they don't reflect everybody's experiences.

In fact, I'm sure there are other men on the forum who have experienced all these things that some say American woman aren't capable of and will back me on this.

[Vitriol]

(04-24-2014 05:14 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 11:12 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

I've never heard this from an American girl

I'm no fan of American broads but when I hear stuff like (have seen all of these lately):

American women are never feminine.
American women don't say I love you.
American women never act like they're into you.
American women never spoil their men.
American women never cook for you or show up with food, beer, and other gifts.
American women don't show up and clean your house out of the blue.
American women get over breakups immediately.
American women never show affection.
American women are never devastated when they lose you.

I simply cannot relate at all...

I was being totally honest when I said that, and it wasn't even the reason I started the thread (the post from Saga about differences in linguistics and how common it is in certain cultures to speak that way is more towards what I was getting at). Also, when I think of all of my close male friends, (some of them have been married or engaged) I've seen very little of the things you put in that list. In my experience, they're much more cold and mechanical, just trying to get what they want and then leave.

I remember having a conversation with a couple of my female co-workers last summer, and their attitude towards their boyfriends/husbands (guys they were legitimately serious with) was basically "yeah he gives me money and we fuck occasionally, but there's nothing THAT GREAT about him." I'm dead serious.

[Beyond Borders]

(04-24-2014 08:21 AM)Vitriol Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 05:14 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 11:12 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

I've never heard this from an American girl

I'm no fan of American broads but when I hear stuff like (have seen all of these lately):

American women are never feminine.
American women don't say I love you.
American women never act like they're into you.
American women never spoil their men.
American women never cook for you or show up with food, beer, and other gifts.
American women don't show up and clean your house out of the blue.
American women get over breakups immediately.
American women never show affection.
American women are never devastated when they lose you.

I simply cannot relate at all...

I was being totally honest when I said that, and it wasn't even the reason I started the thread (the post from Saga about differences in linguistics and how common it is in certain cultures to speak that way is more towards what I was getting at).

Right on, I did pick up on that not being your main point and wasn't trying to single you out specifically. Just when combined with the other comments made in response, as well as a lot of other posts I've seen on the forum, I just find it curious.

Quote:

Also, when I think of all of my close male friends, (some of them have been married or engaged) I've seen very little of the things you put in that list. In my experience, they're much more cold and mechanical, just trying to get what they want and then leave.

I do agree the are more cold and mechanical. But I find it to be exagerrated to a great degree here.

There are still a lot of feminine, loving women in the states who aim to please if they're into a guy.

Quote:

I remember having a conversation with a couple of my female co-workers last summer, and their attitude towards their boyfriends/husbands (guys they were legitimately serious with) was basically "yeah he gives me money and we fuck occasionally, but there's nothing THAT GREAT about him." I'm dead serious.

Ouch.

[General Stalin]

Remember there will always be exceptions to the rule and outliers of the stats quo, but we all know that the manosphere and logically minded reasonable people in general do not go by the NAWALT mentality.

Look at our culture - the way women and male-female relationships are conducted in our part of the world are a direct result of our society and way of life. Narcissism is a rewarded and encouraged trait in the West; America specifically. The gender dynamic has been socially skewed because women are encouraged to live the same lives as men. Go to school, start a fulfilling career, buy a house, be independent, get yours before they get theirs. Women don't need men like they did in our parents or grand-parents generation. They are no longer seen as the subservient "fairer" sex. This means women can be attracted to you and enjoy having sex and spending time with you, but have no real reason to stay with you. They are self-sufficient and have lots of options (and are encouraged to explore the fuck out of them).

"Love" is a purely opinion based term that has exclusive merits to each individual anyway, but I think its safe to say in American it generally has little meaning as compared to other more traditional cultures where a woman actually relies on a man for protection, well-being, comfort, etc.

[void]

(04-24-2014 12:15 AM)Saga Wrote:  

Depends on the language and culture. For instance in German, "ich liebe dich" (literally "I love you") is equivalent to the English "I like you"...so in that case a German girl speaking English could easily say "I love you" when she's really trying to say she likes you. This happens with German even though it's related to English and Germans speak excellent English, so it can definitely happen with other languages too. Plus, other cultures are a lot more effusive if not romantic in casual speech than English-speaking countries...those of Latinate languages in particular (Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian...).

I haven't lived in the American culture to judge your statements, the only thing I can say about the German "Ich liebe dich." is, that it depends strongly on the situational context. It can be translated as a romantic "I love you." and a expression of fondness and big thank you for something you did, totally unrelated to romance or relationships.

Look up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love for cultural differences of "love".

[Santoro]

(04-23-2014 11:25 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

The key trick here is spotting covert rebellion. In more traditional cultures, you won't see direct rebellion,, AVOID

1) Her changing the subject when you want an answer about something.
2) Anything but the words "OK" and/or "Yes" when you tell her to do something. Sometimes of course things are impossible, for instance she is working. Then she should offer alternative
3) Questioning your motives ("Why do you want me to look for an apartment for you?")
4) Laughing in response to being told to do something. ( I found this is the Philippines is a way to avoid saying "no.")
5) Slow responding to your contacts/ Non responding is really bad=indifference.
6) Mentioning other men.
7) Claiming she has no way to do something.
8) Promising to do it later and then not doing it.
9) Sustained (more than 1-2 days) of periods incommunicado. She's fucking someone else in the islands. Which islands? It doesn't matter lolzlzl.
10) Mentioning things that cost a lot of money. (Ex. I've had two girls start sending me pictures of houses for sale. Americans can't own houses in Phils. Only the spouse.....)
11) in a related but not precisely under the heading of "rebellion", is the maxim "avoid unfortunate people." Unfortunate people END UP being "rebellious", maybe not because they feel rebellious but because they DON'T HAVE CONTROL OVER THEIR LIVES-- so they CAN'T help you. Ex. A girl who is always complaining about being sick and broke may claim she loves you, but she can't DO anything about it because she doesn't want sex due to feeling bad, can't meet you because she can't afford it, etc.

Haha this goes both ways. When applied to men this list actually describes decent game. Men with both girlfriends and side mistresses exhibit most of these characteristics (besides 10 & 11). Thank god women's social dynamic outlets are more concerned with hamster wheel-spinning than the above tip-offs that a dude has some side ass. Allows us to keep livin' the life.

[iknowexactly]

(04-24-2014 05:14 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 11:12 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

I've never heard this from an American girl

(04-23-2014 11:56 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

This. Women don't love in a consuming way like beta men, or alphas to whom a woman has proven her loyalty, do. It means "I'm highly amused at this time."

They love you like you love a couch, or at most like a car. You might have some attachment to it, but even if you crash your 1965 Ferrari Dino ( or whatever) if someone bought you another one you wouldn't be devastated, or feel there was a true spiritual difference to you.

Sometimes I wonder what kind of girls you guys are dating in America.

I'm no fan of American broads but when I hear stuff like (have seen all of these lately):

BB, I appreciate being challenged, and you are right to some degree-- I am guilty of using the rhetorical device of exaggerating to make a point.

But I honestly feel the deep truth is tiltled slightly towards "men are the ones that _really _love.."

To go to the classics for support:

"Man's primary love object is woman, woman's primary love object is her children."
--Freud

It's just the way it is. A certain part of your relevance is your biological function as a father, which is not all that relevant to the survival of her genes once she's given birth.

At that time, you become a little more like a comfortable couch, and much less like a god. Her perfect, special kids become the little gods.

I remember reading one guy who described married life with children, he said "It was like running a day care center with a chick I used to date."

Not encouraging.

Life is a trick designed to get you to have children.

And the only way to avoid that is to be infertile or dead I guess.

I think I'm going round the bend as I find that hilariously absurd.

[iknowexactly]

(04-24-2014 10:48 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

"Love" is a purely opinion based term that has exclusive merits to each individual anyway, but I think its safe to say in American it generally has little meaning as compared to other more traditional cultures where a woman actually relies on a man for protection, well-being, comfort, etc.

Godo point, as Nietzsche suggested, when a man has power he can afford to be nice.

[Travesty]

(04-23-2014 11:56 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

This. Women don't love in a consuming way like beta men, or alphas to whom a woman has proven her loyalty, do. It means "I'm highly amused at this time."

They love you like you love a couch, or at most like a car.

Hate to quote this again, but I re-read this a month later, hit me fresh like the first time.

Saddest and truest thing I have read in the forum. Strikes me hard as I get older and I know it's true. We are an accessory to the vast majority of women nowadays unless you find a unicorn.

It's not that American women are awful people it is just their focus seems to be on so many other things in life other than a man either before or after they get him to commit that they just have little reverence at all. Very me me me.

[Vitriol]

(05-30-2014 01:29 AM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

Hate to quote this again, but I re-read this a month later, hit me fresh like the first time.

Saddest and truest thing I have read in the forum. Strikes me hard as I get older and I know it's true. We are an accessory to the vast majority of women nowadays unless you find a unicorn.

It's not that American women are awful people it is just their focus seems to be on so many other things in life other than a man either before or after they get him to commit that they just have little reverence at all. Very me me me.

As much as the red pill hurts, you have to swallow it whole:

http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/27/women-in-love/

Quote:

Iron Rule of Tomassi #6
Women are utterly incapable of loving a man in the way that a man expects to be loved.

In its simplicity this speaks volumes about about the condition of Men. It accurately expresses a pervasive nihilism that Men must either confront and accept, or be driven insane in denial for the rest of their lives when they fail to come to terms with the disillusionment.

Women are incapable of loving men in a way that a man idealizes is possible, in a way he thinks she should be capable of.

In the same respect that women cannot appreciate the sacrifices men are expected to make in order to facilitate their imperatives, women can’t actualize how a man would have himself loved by her. It is not the natural state of women, and the moment he attempts to explain his ideal love, that’s the point at which his idealization becomes her obligation. Our girlfriends, our wives, daughters and even our mothers are all incapable of this idealized love. As nice as it would be to relax, trust and be vulnerable, upfront, rational and open, the great abyss is still the lack of an ability for women to love Men as Men would like them to.

Let go of the fairytale now, or feel pain for the rest of your life.

[amity]

(04-24-2014 11:24 AM)void Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 12:15 AM)Saga Wrote:  

Depends on the language and culture. For instance in German, "ich liebe dich" (literally "I love you") is equivalent to the English "I like you"...so in that case a German girl speaking English could easily say "I love you" when she's really trying to say she likes you. This happens with German even though it's related to English and Germans speak excellent English, so it can definitely happen with other languages too. Plus, other cultures are a lot more effusive if not romantic in casual speech than English-speaking countries...those of Latinate languages in particular (Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian...).

I haven't lived in the American culture to judge your statements, the only thing I can say about the German "Ich liebe dich." is, that it depends strongly on the situational context. It can be translated as a romantic "I love you." and a expression of fondness and big thank you for something you did, totally unrelated to romance or relationships.

Look up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love for cultural differences of "love".

I think you guys are thinking of the phrase "Ich hab dich lieb" which means "I'm really fond of you". 9 times out of 10, it means the girl likes your company a lot, but essentially you're still a friend, possibly even just an orbiter, but occasionally, again depending on the context, it can mean "I'm very fond of you, but I also wouldn't be offended if you were to jump my bones right this moment"

[HungWeiLo]

Maybe it's just me, and while I'll readily admit I'm not at the top of the game totem pole, I have to disagree with some of the blanket posts about American women. I've seen the women this forum talks about, the dumb, vapid, shallow, and lothesome kind that men are rightly advised to avoid like the plague. But I've also known and dated some very feminine women that for whatever reason it didn't work out. I understand now that this was my lack of knowledge of game and that up until that point I had gotten by luck, good genetics, and finding girls who were already into me. Those small, though important caveats aside, the type of women it seems this forum yearns for overseas (I'll know about them for myself in a month ) can be found her, they're just so damn rare and usually wifey'd up that they may as well be unicorns. I must note though, that my background at a private Christian high school very likely contributed to knowing better than my fair share of feminine women, who went on to be feminine college coeds and get married. Just my two cents.

HWL