[Prophylaxis]

There have been a fair few threads which already touched on this issue of flakiness and how it is absolutely unavoidable with young, attractive females.

Obviously being a blatant sign of disrespect, any girl that flakes on me more than twice I don't talk to again.

Previously I went cold, off-the radar and ignored any contact she would try to initiate. However, I'm getting over all this passive-aggressive bullshit, and wondered whether directly telling women WHY you will not see them would possibly change their behaviour, or at least reflect on why they blew their chance to be with you.

I don't give a fuck about said girl, BUT if it would help any future players out, I'd definitely consider letting her know straight-up.

Something along the lines of "Hey X you're a great girl, but I've got to be honest with you. I can't be with someone who doesn't keep their word and is flakey. It's a massive sign of disrespect. Take care."

What are your thoughts?

[Tengen]

If she's young and attractive are you expecting her to respond with "oh no, don't be like that, give me another chance"?

More likely than not she'll just ignore it or laugh and show all her girlfriends how she suckered another guy.

One thing to think about is why you are giving her the chance to flake at all. Assuming you have good logistics, you should aim for a zero-date bang. If that's not the issue then maybe it's a matter of target selection - i'm assuming the likelihood of flaking is higher if she's your typical westernised specimen.

[General Stalin]

Flaking can be a shit test too especially with all the options broads have these days. Until she meets you face to face and can build that personal comfort and attraction then her interest level can be dodgy. Women have hyper-abundance in our culture. Limitless dick on tap.

I agree, if she is going to cancel plans more than twice then next her. I actually recently started banging this okc girl that junked our first two planned dates. Was frustrating as shit... but I had other plates spinning and after we finally got the first date out of the way and I built up comfort with her, now she is a regular girl who drive to my house and loves to get fucked.

[conservative]

If she flaked more than one time, it means she's not interested in you and thinks you are the one interested in her. So she is like: "he can call if he wants". This means she won't care if you tell her you are leaving.

Just move on.

[EddieValiant]

If they don't show interest by suggesting another day, I move on. No 2nd chances.

I then listen to this: http://youtu.be/7WH1Bsdzh7A

[Farmageddon]

If you guys are immediately nexting a girl after one or two flakes you are leaving pussy on the table.

I can't tell you how many girls I've banged after they have flaked one or two or three or four times.

Instead of hard nexting them and deleting their number try just moving them further and further down your back burner.

The girls who have flaked several times become a 'hail mary' lead that should be utilized when all your hot leads have become exhausted.

Example: last month I was supposed to go on a date with a solid 8 - she flaked an hour before. I hadn't double booked the day because I thought she was a solid lead. Well, it was 7pm in the evening and I had nothing to do, so I sent out a 'hail mary' text to about 5 girls that had all flaked several times in the past. 2 answered but only 1 of them came through. We met, had a couple drinks, and went back to my place...

If I had deleted her number just because she had flaked a couple times that would have never happened.

When you truly live with a mentality of abundance you see flaking from another perspective.

"No second chances" attitude = dick in hand more often than not.

tl;dr = quit throwing away potentially good leads. quit taking flaking personally. just move the wishy-washy girls further and further down your pipeline but keep them as a 'hail mary' option.

[EddieValiant]

Flakes have to be examined case by case but in general, I'm in agreement with TS that they're a sign of disrespect. Not sure what your life looks like but I value my time FAR too much at this point in my life to be spending it on someone that's disrespected me. I will agree though that going this route, you do leave pussy on the table here and there.

[redpillrage33]

I would only call them out on it if she was a regular bang in your roster or fwb, or at least someone you've been naked with more a couple times.

I find flaking by girls before the first meet up or in the early stages to be so pervasive in the present day that it just goes without saying this is going to continue to happen.

Not saying that it's right. Not saying that I agree with it. In fact I agree with the OP that it is a huge sign of disrespect (and it reveals how much modern North American females have become socially dysfunctional because of goddamned smart phones).

But all that aside, calling her out for flaking on you when you are in the early stages (building attraction, comfort, rapport) will accomplish precisely nothing. You might as well be screaming at the walls. Why? Because she's got nothing invested in you yet, and as mentioned above, validation is being thrown at her from all sides at all times in any event.

Once they have something invested in you, should they flake on you, it's entirely fair to let them know that is not acceptable. Might even shame them into changing their behavior.

For early flakers, I'm not advocating letting it go entirely. File it away in the vault as a red flag. And also feel free to respond with the soft next.

[Farmageddon]

Quote:

I value my time FAR too much at this point in my life to be spending it on someone that's disrespected me

But flaking isn't disrespecting you. You just perceive it as disrespect because you live with a mentality of scarcity.

You know what I do when a girl flakes on me? I do what I was going to do with her, without her anyway. I don't take it personally because in all honesty, I could care less. I'm going to do what I'm going to do either way. Hey, if I have some female company, that's great. If not, that's great too.

When you allow someone else to have power over your state of mind you will constantly be at the whims of another person. Your sense of self-worth or your mood or your attitude should be self-generated.

I bet you get pissed when a girl flakes on you. Right?

Who gives a shit! Double-book. The look on a girl's face when your second date shows up is priceless. Or text some other girls. Or go out with your guy friends. Meet some new girls at a bar. Do what you're going to do anyway, regardless of whether or not some random girl that you don't even know yet is there or not.

Women flake. That is their nature. Never allow another person to have any sort of power over you in any way.

A person who truly lives with an abundance mentality would never care if someone flakes or not.

[redpillrage33]

^ Farmageddon, I do have to respectfully disagree with you a bit. It is disrespectful to make plans to meet up with someone and then send a text the day of (sometimes minutes before or even after the designated time) making some lame excuse (sometimes not even that) to cancel.

Women claim their gender to be the more "socially savvy". But that's just wrong when it comes to this. Flaking like that is fraking rude. And a lot of women have decided this is the thing to do.

I like your attitude about doing what you were going to do without her anyway. I've done that myself and recommend it to everyone.

That said, I don't think you can react early on in the interaction other than to soft next. Some women use flaking as a shit test to see if you get all butthurt and respond emotionally. That you don't want to do.

Still other women have so many distractions and other forms of validation that they don't give it a second thought. There's nothing you can do to change these girls up, I find.

[runsonmagic]

Generally if a girl flakes, and still wants to meet up, I tell her to come to my house and hang out there.

If she gives me any shit about it, I say "you flaked last time. If you flake again, I'd like to be at home where I can get stuff done instead. Once you're here there's a great place we can walk five minutes from my house, no problem."

Of course, once she is over, the formula is isolate, fuck, and then never call again - i.e. flake on her till the end of time. Turn around is fair play.

[Giovonny]

Be more emotionally engaging to her.

Identify her interests and passion and make comments about them.

When a girl tells me her favorite show, movie, food, subject, restaurant, actor, musician, philosophy, joke, comedian, store, etc., etc.. I go online and research those topics in order to educate myself in order to craft a text that will stimulate her interest.

I don't try to impress her with my interests but rather you use her interests to engage her.

I try to identify these things earlier rather than later.

I suggest dates and meet ups at places that are consistent with her tastes and preferences.

If I girl says she likes sushi, I will not comment on it too much but a week later, I will text her and say -- "hey im going for to that new sushi place at 7 if you wanna come"

If she tells me she loves her art history class, I will find a cool museum and suggest a date there.

If she is a stoner, I ask her if she wants to try my new vapor pen.

Stuff like that. I always craft my communication in a way that will be stimulating to her.

This has helped reduce flakes.

*****

I also try to get a sense for her sense of humor so I can craft my humor accordingly.

*****

I think dressing beter has helped a lot also. It just makes them more curious.

*****

Also,


I think being more polarizing in the initial approach is something to consider.

You may get less numbers but the numbers you do get may be less likely to flake

*****

Some girls just give their number as a soft rejection. They will never return your call.

Remember that, many flakes are just indirect REJECTIONS.

Don't dwell on them. Do your best and move on to the next girl.

[vinman]

The next time you're hanging out with a girl and the conversation is going well fake a butt dial. Call the girls number and let her overhear you with another girl enjoying yourself. If she calls back to tell you about it be aloof. If she doesn't call or text move on.

[Distant Light]

Easy answer...STOP GOING ON DATES...

Haven't been on a date in maybe 4 years now. These girls are RANDOM there is no reason to be setting up a date, just invite them along to things your already doing and hangout in group settings that way YOU can decide which ones might be fun to have around in your life. I'll go out with 5 girls (3 who I've fooled around with) and just hangout.

If she flakes, she essentially was flaking on a simple "group activity", just because I invite someone somewhere doesn't mean I want to fuck them. I already know what I bring to the table, DATE...i'm going to spend 1 on 1 time with you when I can be hanging with friends and family, people who I know I'd enjoy being around.

[wandenreich]

(04-23-2014 02:15 PM)Farmageddon Wrote:  

If you guys are immediately nexting a girl after one or two flakes you are leaving pussy on the table.

I can't tell you how many girls I've banged after they have flaked one or two or three or four times.

Instead of hard nexting them and deleting their number try just moving them further and further down your back burner.

The girls who have flaked several times become a 'hail mary' lead that should be utilized when all your hot leads have become exhausted.

Example: last month I was supposed to go on a date with a solid 8 - she flaked an hour before. I hadn't double booked the day because I thought she was a solid lead. Well, it was 7pm in the evening and I had nothing to do, so I sent out a 'hail mary' text to about 5 girls that had all flaked several times in the past. 2 answered but only 1 of them came through. We met, had a couple drinks, and went back to my place...

If I had deleted her number just because she had flaked a couple times that would have never happened.

When you truly live with a mentality of abundance you see flaking from another perspective.

"No second chances" attitude = dick in hand more often than not.

tl;dr = quit throwing away potentially good leads. quit taking flaking personally. just move the wishy-washy girls further and further down your pipeline but keep them as a 'hail mary' option.

are these girls that you have met previously? Or do you guys still text after the first, second, third or fourth flake?

most of the girls just stopped texting after the initial flake, and i didn't even call them out on it. i went radio silence, restarted a week and still haven't heard anything.

some numbers i've been sending restart text on weekly basis for about 1 month and a half now.

[TheChef]

I'd suggest not responding to the flake directly by text. Just roll with a simple "ok" and see how she responds. If she hits you up to hang out, go for it. When you see her in person you can casually bring up why she flaked and see what she says. Tell her you don't put up with it more than once.

Girls who you have yet to go out with will flake more. Girls who you've already banged but are flaking may be doing it for real reasons...let the first slide but the second one not.

Recently, a girl flaked on plans to meet on a Sunday afternoon. I hit her up with "ok." She said "whatever you want to do I'm down!" and I chilled for a few days, picked an off night when I had nothing going on and invited her over.

Then she has the gall to text, "It's like we haven't seen each other in so long!"

:igh::

girls are silly

[LaserBear]

Head and Shoulders can help with flakes, but if she's not attending to basic hygiene on her own... you should probably just next it.

[Vaun]

(04-23-2014 01:54 PM)EddieValiant Wrote:  

If they don't show interest by suggesting another day, I move on. No 2nd chances.

I then listen to this: http://youtu.be/7WH1Bsdzh7A

I used to do just this, like 10-15 years ago. Things have changed, dramatically. And I am guilt of still looking for it now when a girl flakes, but reciprocating another date is pretty much unheard of. But I would call this approach more LTR game than just hooking up with random girls. With LTR game you are looking those high interest girls, here you just want someone to hangout with for the night and engage just enough. I like Distant Lights approach, I think its how most women view hanging out with new guys these days as well.

[WestIndianArchie]

Lots of good advice above, but the underlying feeling of your post seems to be,"How do I punish a girl for breaking her word?"

How do you put a bitch in her place?

How do I make her feel the stress and pain that she makes me feel?

How do I get back at her?

You want revenge.

As has been said time and time again, women face no social consequence for any of their transgressions. They flake on their best friends and family, why wouldn't they flake on some okcupid rando?

That is the lay of the land. But you feel anger over your perceived disrespect.

It may very well be disrespect or it could be legitimate, either way you're still mad. She doesn't value you enough to keep her word. She probably doesn't value herself enough to keep her promises to herself.

You're smart enough to not immediately react with anger, but that fire burns nonetheless. That fire starts with the expectation that she is going to keep her word, and worse still always expect you to keep yours, at least in your mind.

There's an asymmetry of power here. She has it over you and your feelings, and you've given it to her for nothing.

When people talk about privilege, her behavior is what they're talking about. Being a dick and not being aware of how much of a dick you're being. She has pussy privilege, and she is able to flaunt it, you can't do shit about it, other than complain. And only your fellows in the same circumstance feel you. Speaking truth to power always falls on deaf ears. She's probably only vaguely aware of her behavior, but essentially it just sucks to be you.

There's a deep injustice here. Why does she not have to abide by the social contract, fairness, courtesy?

Power.

Power that may wane eventually for her individually, sometime in the far off future where your existence is less than a memory, but as a class of people, the reign never ends.

Allah help you if the rest of your life is spent in the driver's seat, because dealing with the true ubiquitous power, unending social circumstance will drive you mad. The most bitter guys in the sphere demographically often have the best life circumstance.

And revenge? How can you bring her pain, when she doesn't value you?

Hate fuck when you get the chance?
Ignore her?
Get her to fall in love with you, and then disappear..like you can't be easily replaced? Like she isn't already pining away for some alpha greater than you?

The player must dig deep.

It's not enough to accept the reality.

That's taking the red pill.

What do you do?

Flake first?
Passive aggressive texts?
Stop planning dates?
Double book?
Only go to dates to places where you'd go anyway?
Try and be the better person? (In your mind, at least)
Tell yourself it's not a big deal

Always expect the worst, so that you never feel pain?

Whatever practical step you take, you and I both know that she's going to disappoint you at some point. If not her, the next five will.

That's the bigger issue. You're going to run out of moves.

What then?

WIA

[jariel]

WIA puts it down.

Put there's an easier solution to this problem: don't deal with it.

Too many guys in this game community are basically asking "how do I put up with women's bullshit?", why would one want to put up with anyone's bullshit?

[Prophylaxis]

Great responses here.

However I think a few misinterpreted my OP.

My underlying question was "Will letting a flakey girl know you won't tolerate her behaviour help shape her future behaviour?"

There does seem to be a paradox of 'not dealing with it, vs keeping her on the back-burner'. If a woman has cancelled plans numerous times, how much are you willing to sell yourself out for a cheap-fuck? IMO Tolerating this behaviour will only reinforce her flakiness with future men.

[StrikeBack]

(04-24-2014 08:06 PM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

My underlying question was "Will letting a flakey girl know you won't tolerate her behaviour help shape her future behaviour?"

I've tried a few things:

- radio silence (not responding to her flake txt)
- txting back something short like "gay", "not cool" or "you're no fun"
- txting back something longer & serious

Nothing has ever worked.

My best guess is that since her parents and schooling have already failed her, I as a man can't really help make her a better woman esp if she has such low interest, she wont even meet up with me.

Also, if she feels bad for a second reading my txt, she can:

- swipe to some app on her phone for quick validation & fun
- show her txt to her girls to analyze and laugh at me (which is why I want all my txts to pass the jumbotron test, seen my female friends do this a lot)
- get entertained by the next swinging dick in her phone contacts
- get her hamster to turn me into a villain and herself into a victim - that's a glorious win for our lead actress in the latest episode of Day of Her Life

She will forget any bad feeling or lesson I try to teach her in a flash.

The only thing I truly have any influence over is my own attention and time, which I can withdraw from her.

Having said that, if you guys find something that works, I'm all ears. I'm not too invested in trying to teach these girls a lesson, but I'm all for trolling the shit out of them!

[wandenreich]

(04-24-2014 10:03 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

I've tried a few things:

- radio silence (not responding to her flake txt)
- txting back something short like "gay", "not cool" or "you're no fun"
- txting back something longer & serious

Nothing has ever worked.

My best guess is that since her parents and schooling have already failed her, I as a man can't really help make her a better woman esp if she has such low interest, she wont even meet up with me.

Agreed. My take is that giving out numbers doesn't really mean anything to these girls anymore. Since they can either ignore you / string you along for entertainment or just block you for good.

It's like they were never opened to you to begin with so whatever you do has no effect on them

[WestIndianArchie]

(04-24-2014 08:06 PM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

Great responses here.

However I think a few misinterpreted my OP.

My underlying question was "Will letting a flakey girl know you won't tolerate her behaviour help shape her future behaviour?"

There does seem to be a paradox of 'not dealing with it, vs keeping her on the back-burner'. If a woman has cancelled plans numerous times, how much are you willing to sell yourself out for a cheap-fuck? IMO Tolerating this behaviour will only reinforce her flakiness with future men.

The old school way was

"this is the first time you've displeased me, and the last time"
If she fucks up again, you drop her w/o hesitation.

You need a stable full of chicks and a stone cold heart to give up on sure pussy though. In my experience, by the time I got to this point, I was already mentally checked out.

Ultimatums only work if she fears what you may do, and what she may lose.

So when you lay down the law, you've got to be ready to take the loss. If she calls you on it, you've got to get up and leave, and she can't change your mind.

There's no strategy which will allow you to win this battle every time.

Even when you break a chick, she's going to keep "putting you to the question." If it's not flaking, she wants you to come out with her. If it's not going out with her and her harpies, it'll be cleaning the apartment, helping her move, fixing her car, intimidating her neighbors, smuggling Chihuahuas from Mexico.

She will stay with you as long as it meets her needs, but when you don't, when some other alpha enters the picture, when she's fed up, she bounces.

At the same time, she doesn't respect flexibility either. If you're too give and take, too compromising, or forgive her at the wrong time - she bounces.

She likes strength, until she doesn't.
She never likes weakness.

It's the classic double bind.

We escape the situation by having other chicks on deck, and more importantly you're just not needy about women.

But within the confines of a FB/FWB/GF/STR/LTR/Marriage, these are the rules that typically apply with one woman.

WIA

[Giovonny]

(04-24-2014 08:06 PM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

My underlying question was "Will letting a flakey girl know you won't tolerate her behaviour help shape her future behaviour?"

Yes, it will likely shape her behavior but there is not guarantee that it will shape her behavior positively or negatively..

Lets say you "call her out" for flaking..

She could:

A) Adjust her behavior

or

B) Not adjust her behavior.

There is really no way to tell how a girl will react.

It really all depends on HOW you call her out.. If you do it in a way that is unattractive to her, it could backfire. If you do it in a way that is attractive to her, it may work in your favor.

It also, depends on whether or not the girl really likes you or not.. If she likes you, she is less likely to flake, if she doesn't like you, she will use flaking as a way to reject you.

It's hard to predict the behavior of a crazy person.