[Nomad77]

Naturals are also the other type of guy that a lot of guys would like to understand and emulate. I believe a "natural" is simply a guy that has grown up around women and have been sexualized by them from a young age. It's like someone who has grown up with horses. They will have a natural understanding of horses that someone who has not simply won't have.

A good example of this is the author of Black Passenger Yellow Cab.

These guys will usually have grown up in an environment where they were exposed to a high percentage of females from a young age and in essence they were taught by them a more correct term would be groomed by them. Can you emulate their behavior? I am sure you can and it should produce better results but I would imagine it would be difficult to really become one without all of those years of grooming and conditioning.

And if you think there are no disadvantages to this, think again. While a natural may be great at relating to women, they will usually have a difficult time relating to men. They will never be a part of the boys club because they won't understand a lot of things that guys like to do. They will always be more comfortable in the company of women than men and as such will usually have very few male friends. They also won't experience the same level of enjoyment a regular guy has from getting/banging a girl. Since they have been doing this since they were young, it will no longer hold the same level of achievement or excitement. Since they have always had women around them, it's just something that's taken for granted. This is the price they pay for the talent you envy in them.

And ironically, contrary to a lot of men on here, a natural will have a great love and admiration for women. Why wouldn't he? They have been taking care and giving him pleasure for for as long as he can remember.

[Tideride]

I knew a guy who was raised by 5 older sisters he had mad game- the girls he was banging in Atlanta looked like stacked Penthouse Pets. I agree with your theory.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

How old are you guys?

It took me seeing a generation of my family roll around to come to the conclusion that a lot of Alpha is genetic, not so much environmental. That doesn't mean you can't change, but I do see boys who are pretty much "born this way" (to cop an annoying phrase).

Thinking we're only products of our environment is the "blank slate" theory, an idea that became popular in the '70s but is now considered outdated, since connections between genes and personality traits have been discovered.

Let me give you some first-hand accounts. (As for those gene-personality studies, look them up. Roissy also discussed this at one point.)

My youngest brother was Alpha from the time he was a baby: funny, cute, won women over (including my much older dates!), athletic, natural leader. Now he's a CEO with a totally hot wife.

We were not treated differently by our folks. But we *reacted* differently. This, I think, is the key. My dad would dress me down and I'd spin into long depressions. When my dad laid into him, he'd laugh in my dad's face and go shoot hoops. Some of us are pensive; others are extroverts. Some of us feel awful easily; others feel great easily.

Girls would talk to my brother and he'd be Mr. Sunshine. They'd talk to me and I'd stammer and not know what to say. I had to actively learn to communicate with women. (I'm taking about our development in middle school at this point.)

I sort of took for granted the way he was. Until I saw his boys. The first one looks just like him, but has always been extremely shy. So scratch "looks equals destiny" off the reasons men are Alpha. The second is geeky. But then came the third. From the day that kid could speak he was the star of the show. And he was pretty much identical to my brother personality-wise. Now in hear in kindergarten he's the leader of everything and girls and boys follow him around. When the family talks about kids, he's always the one everyone talks about.

(Odd footnote: at family gatherings I noticed he hangs with the neighbor girl his oldest brother's age (10), who apparently is crazy about him. This mirrors how my brother would naturally chat up my 18-year-old dates when he was about ten. No malice here -- they just have some weird magnetism and seem to know what to say or how to respond.)

I also saw this with a set of cousins of mine a few years younger. Some are just born to lead and be around people. And with that seems to come being able to attract women. Other kids just cannot communicate well and that bleeds into how they relate to women as teens.

Again, I don't see this as environmental since the siblings I speak of were all raised in the same environment. This is not to totally discount environment. If we took these kids and put them in extreme situations, sure, they'd be different. But I think we need to consider some of our personality is in our DNA and work from there.

So what can we do if we're not born winners?

The point of self-improvement, IMO, is to maximize what you have. I will never have (and DID never have) my brother's natural charm, super good looks, leadership ability, or sense of style. But what I do have is my creativity, bookishness, ability to write, and knowledge of a lot of esoteric things. That attracts a somewhat different crowd of women, but I did (and do) alright and, in some cases, better.

In short (and sorry for making this so long), you will never turn Bill Gates into Charles Barkley or vice-versa. But if you're either of these types, you can go far playing on your own strengths -- no matter how quirky -- than trying to bang your own square peg into a round hole.

Hence, being "natural" might ultimately mean what's natural for you and taking it from there.

[Nomad77]

Good point and I agree. I did not mean to imply that ALL naturals are created this way but I do believe many of them are. Genes always play a part but exactly how is very difficult to determine whereas environmental factors are much easier to establish.

There is also a difference between a natural and a guy that is just good with women. There are many guys out there that are good at getting women who are not naturals. They just work hard at it. What comes easy or naturally to the natural some other guy may have to work 10 times harder to achieve but it is doable. And Roosh is a good example of this.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

There are 3 types of Naturals I have encountered personally:

1. The born Alpha and leader as mentioned in the story - being charismatic even as a kid (very rare in my opinion)
2. The formerly shy, but extremely good-looking guy, who starts getting approached by girls at a very young age. He learns interaction with girls, because he is the target. (saw plenty of those guys - shy as fuck at age 14/15 - 2 years later center of the party - when girls chase you all the time you become "Natural")
3. The aggressive guy with an enormous amount of testosterone - as soon as puberty hits in he just can't help himself but approach girls regardless of looks, shyness etc. He simply interacts with girls non-stop and is usually more or less good at it through trial and error by age 18-20.

Now of course you can be a mixture of all those guys.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Nowadays there might be a emerging a different kind of "Natural" unseen in previous generations:

4. Some bright kid who starts learning about Game at the tender age of 14 - gobbling up all the info on the net and even actively starting to unleash the Alpha state within him.

In previous generations such concise information was simply unavailable to the average teen.

[Respectabull]

Newbie chiming in here, but I think the information has always been there. Maybe not in a an easily digested forum, but men have always been able to stand on the shoulders of those who came before them.

[internet alpha]

Even if you're not born a natural you can practice game consciously for so long until you become a natural and run game naturally.

[TheMan]

Naturals (and all variations of game) are created by women in the same way that the current status of our immune systems are created by the last incarnation of the influenza and vice versa.