[Rotisserie]

Interesting post on Quora regarding what it feels like to be an unattractive woman.

Some choice quotes from the most up voted answer by Stephanie Su, a Computer Science undergrad at MIT:

Quote:

I am ugly. I am unattractive. I know that my skin is awful, my hair is greasy, and society simply does not permit women to weigh as much as I do.

... I much prefer the Internet to real life interactions because most of you haven’t got a clue as to what I look like, and if you don't like me it's because my ideas suck and not because you find my face unpleasant. ...

Even if people are especially curious about my appearance, I only allow them to make vague inferences based off a single profile picture, uniform across all my social media haunts, taken a very long time ago at a surprisingly flattering angle, in which I actually manage to trick them into thinking I look quite average. Well, I don’t. I’ve gained 50 pounds since then, and academic stress makes my acne flare up like nobody’s business….

I would ultimately benefit far more from sharpening my skills and pursuing a technical career than from trying in vain to undo the effects of losing the genetic lottery.

As for the romantic side of things, I avoid unnecessary heartbreak by keeping myself from harboring silly delusions about reciprocated love in the first place. I have rationalized that it is okay for me to be ugly because 1) marriage is not the optimal arrangement for everyone and 2) the human race would likely carry on just fine without my genetic contribution.

I am irritated with the cliché that “everyone is beautiful” because surface friendliness and pretending to be PC don’t solve anything. It doesn’t help the young girl with confidence issues because even if you’re “nice” enough to tell her that she’s beautiful, are you nice enough to, like, actually date her? Words mean nothing without actions, yet it’s patently unfair to expect people not to be shallow because at the end of the day, beauty is beauty, attraction is attraction, and sexual desire is governed by deep-rooted evolutionary impulses that people don’t understand and can’t control.

It would be far more useful to promote the idea that people can contribute to the world in a variety of interesting and fulfilling ways besides making others salivate over their bodies. You can make original scientific breakthroughs! You can regale people with tales of heroic conquest! You can build products that make people’s lives easier! But I guess changing the world wouldn’t make for an effective beauty products campaign.

I commend this girl for being realistic about her attributes and expectations, and leveraging what she does have in abundance, namely intelligence and drive. But the video she posts at the end of her answer is also very interesting, for different reasons. It's an ad for Dove, again, trying to 'redefine beauty' (whatever that means) by making girls take better selfies.

Strange that she would post an ad from Dove, the apex of the horrid 'everyone is beautiful' movement, but what I got from the video is how much I really pity these girls. Some of them are not even that bad… but this is why I hate dipping below 7. Anything below that, and girls are more likely to be damaged in some way, and my pumping and dumping them wouldn't help any. Dat guilt.

[cardguy]

It is an interesting topic.

I will say that I have a lot of sympathy for unattractive girls. And indeed - I think most guys have more sympathy for such chicks than girls do for guys who they look down on.

I am very friendly to such chicks. But it is always clear that they will be wasting their time with me.

And on top of that - as soon as they start hamstering about how 'some guys like fat chicks' and 'different guys have different ideals of beauty' - I quickly shut them down.

I don't mind being friendly - but I am not going to stand for no bullshit either.

I think guys quite enjoy the masochistic thrill of embracing unpleasant truths. After awhile it becomes quite liberating being brutally honest with yourself and others.

But for women - they never seem to get to the stage of enjoying the benefits of raw honesty.

And I much prefer raw honesty - to the bullshit that 'Dove' promotes which is all about redefining what we mean by "beauty".

Still - with that said. I do feel most young chicks who stress about this shouldn't get too down. It is easy for a young girl to fix shit in this area. It is amazing how much difference losing weight, being more confident and learning to master make-up can make.

Sadly - a lot of these girls are their own worse enemies. And that really does make me sad. I see some of these chicks moping about and know I could get them looking hot within a couple of days.

In that way - the media might be to blame - since it seems to discourage girls from making the very best of themselves since they are disheartened into thinking they can never compete with the images of perfection they are bombarded with.

The major injustice in the world - is that those who are ugly know they are ugly. Yet those who are stupid - don't know they are stupid...

Without dark we can not have light.

Without good we can not have bad.

And without ugly we can not have beauty.

God has a plan for us all...

[RawGod]

She talks about "gaining 50lbs" and "acne flaring up due to stress". These things are due to diet, not to "losing the genetic lottery". For all her supposed talents and intelligence, she doesn't have what it takes to lay off the fish and chips.

[The Beast1]

(03-22-2014 04:58 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

She talks about "gaining 50lbs" and "acne flaring up due to stress". These things are due to diet, not to "losing the genetic lottery". For all her supposed talents and intelligence, she doesn't have what it takes to lay off the fish and chips.

When I was a teenager, i was fairly smart. But being tall, skinny, and squirrely didn't help anything.

I resigned away to focusing on my school work and music. I struggled with school but ended up doing so so overall.

One of the greatest things I ever did for my life was push myself to go to the gym. I feel like i've gotten smarter from working out. Things that confused me during the day would come to me in a strange clarity doing a set of massive dead lifts. Adding personal fitness and nutrition into my life has made me more successful at work and in my personal relationships. My confidence is through the roof.

Imagine how much more successful this woman would be if she decided to take a serious look at her personal health. Her massive intellegence mixed in with a smoking body for a young woman would make her a unicorn in the science community. Just think of all the herby white knight scientists orbiting her. Girls like this don't sit by doing boring work.

It sounds like she has some massive self esteem issues and has resigned herself to celibacy in her studies and internet life. The worst thing too is the fact that she will never pass on her genes to the next generation. This can all be changed with a healthy diet, exercise , and a trip to a dermatologist.

Even then though, she can solve the weight problem. No excuse.

[clever alias]

(03-22-2014 04:58 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

She talks about "gaining 50lbs" and "acne flaring up due to stress". These things are due to diet, not to "losing the genetic lottery". For all her supposed talents and intelligence, she doesn't have what it takes to lay off the fish and chips.

the weight, pretty much within control, but some people just get acne. m cousin eats well, runs cross country, and still has to go for microdermabrasion every 2 weeks or she looks real rough around the edges

[Gopnik]

I truly feel sorry for women like this one, some men have similar problems too but with game, style etc they can be overcomed.

The whole idea of "redefining beauty" in the dove commercial is just pure bs. I believe it comes from the misconception that if you don't think you are "beautiful" /attractive you can't even feel comfortable in your own skin. If this was true however, then only a small proportion of people would live without important self esteem issues since beauty probably follows a normal distribution curve and only the top 25% could be classified as "beautiful". However, saying that all women are beautiful is completely delusional (notice how it's ok to point out if a man is ugly, fat etc), as the woman in the post clearly points out, attractiveness comes down to evolutionary impulses, so if women want to call each other beautiful is just meaningless.

This being said, there are no excuses for being 50 lbs overweight and acne can also be treated so I don't think the woman is being completely honest with herself.

Check out this parody of another similar dove commercial, it's pretty good:

[WestIndianArchie]

Very little sympathy.

1) there's no such thing as an ugly woman, just a lazy one
2) lots of guys will fuck her, despite her weight and personality
3) when one of these ugly ducklings manages to grab a guy, she expects the same level of worship that her beautiful sisters get and have told her she should expect.

Few betas will put up with that bullshit.

If she wants to be healthy and get a man, she needs to make the decision to change her life.

School will always be there. Her youth won't.

WIA

[Glaucon]

I think my emapthy and sympathy nerves just died from the overload of attention whoring in the last few years.

It sucks to be you, Miss.

Dark triad here I come.

[Ziltoid]

After reading "Self Made Man", my ultimate wet dream is somehow making women spend a year or so in a man's shoes...

See how much you hate being an unattractive woman after you've been an unattractive man.

[cardguy]

Is 'Self Made Man' a good book?

I have it on my shelf - but never got round to reading it.

[Ziltoid]

It's amusing (see chapter 4), enlightening, and the woman who wrote it almost seems like she learned a thing or two.

[Horus]

Girl at 2:33 with the shrillex haircut.

[Teutatis]

(03-23-2014 02:18 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

1) there's no such thing as an ugly woman, just a lazy one

I totally disagree with this, I've seen plenty of ugly women that no matter what they did they would still be ugly and unattractive. Sometimes I feel like in this forum guys think if a girl loses a few pounds she'll transform into a beautiful swan, but there is more to attractiveness than weight only.

Quote:

2) lots of guys will fuck her, despite her weight and personality

I don't know if a "lot" of guys will fuck her, maybe a few, yes, but they'll be extremely unattractive and low value men, and she knows this. I doubt even if she finds one of those she'll be happy.

Quote:

3) when one of these ugly ducklings manages to grab a guy, she expects the same level of worship that her beautiful sisters get and have told her she should expect.

Again, I don't agree, women that haven't gotten much male attention in their lives won't magically turn into stuck up princesses just because some guy decided to fuck her. If anything she'll be insecure and always worried that he might leave her for someone else, unless he's so low value that she knows he can't get anyone else, which again, will make her unhappy to be with such a man.

Quote:

If she wants to be healthy and get a man, she needs to make the decision to change her life.

This I agree with, she needs to do something to change her life for the better, that's definitely possible, but no matter what she does she'll never belong to the popular and pretty girl club.

[WestIndianArchie]

(03-23-2014 09:22 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

no matter what she does she'll never belong to the popular and pretty girl club.

2 Things

1) You've never been out and seen a fugly chick being fawned over a by a dude who could do better? I've always assumed that she must be a goddamn demon in the sack but
- personality goes a long way
- guys have low self esteem as well

2) The Womanly arts of the Appearance are a multi-billion dollar industry
- advice
- make up
- hair cut and styles
- fashion
- diet and exercise
- and at the extreme end, bolt on some D Cups, and a bitch's life will change, regardless of the rest of her because men are that obsessed with breasts, real or not.

I've been fooled more than a few times (and I don't talk to chicks drunk, period), and fucked chicks that after they took off the war paint and armor revealed themselves to be quite the troglodyte.

The dim lights, the music, the atmosphere, her bubbly and cool personality....before long you're in some dingy living room getting the life sucked out of you...

The real downfall of any chick is not her appearance, it's usually her personality.

This chick in particular said she was in the sciences...If there was ever a set of guys hard up for some female attention, it's in science. Getting to a normal weight, showing a little skin, some perfume, and the right amount of femininity in her personality, she could be popping out kids in no time.

As far as her behavior, all of them always want more. It's in their nature. No woman is just satisfied with having a man. She wants a marriage. She wants children. She wants a house. She wants..she wants...she wants. And what she wants is often contradictory. This is something that every society seems to have an adage for.

Arabic proverb, "She wants fried ice"

Your experience may differ, but the crones and wildebeests i've seen find love is astounding. And then their entitlement afterwards....

WIA

[Teutatis]

(03-23-2014 11:55 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

and fucked chicks that after they took off the war paint and armor revealed themselves to be quite the troglodyte.

Hahaha, yeah, I think this has happened to plenty of guys. Women can have literally two faces, their real one and their makedup one.

I actually agree with most of what you say, but the "there's no such thing as an ugly woman, just a lazy one" part I can't. Yes, an ugly woman can make herself look more attractive (or less ugly), but she'll still be ugly. And I'm not talking about a cute girl that is 10 or 20lbs overweight, I'm talking about facially very ugly or thin women whose bodies are weird looking and not attractive. True, some women are less ugly than others and can deceive you better, until they take off their war paint and you think "oh god, what have I done?"

[Tuthmosis]

Women are experts of not only feeling sorry for themselves, but then getting other people to feel sorry for their feeling sorry for themselves.

I wonder if Lever 2000 or Old Spice will make a bar-soap commercial about how to make men seem taller or buffer or more charming.