[Atlanta Man]

(03-28-2014 01:24 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 01:22 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 12:59 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 12:29 AM)clever alias Wrote:  

if you get a vaccine, you won't get sick.

That is a blatantly false assumption. A certain percentage of people who take almost every vaccine will get the very disease that they are trying to prevent, from the vaccine itself. That is a major drawback to almost every vaccine, along with frequent contaminants and dangerous additives. That is why everyone must make the choice for himself as to whether to take a vaccine.

Care to share that certain percentage?

Vaccines are made either with dead pathogens, which are impossible to cause illness, or weakened pathogens, who MAY cause illness, but this is only a problem to people with weakened immune systems, like aids or cancer patients, which is a very minute percentage of the population, so this is NOT a major drawback to ALMOST every vaccine.

Also, please share which frequent contaminants and dangerous additives vaccines contain, as I'm curious to know what they are.

Google is your friend. Mercury and aluminum are two, off the top of my head. If they put mercury in your mouth, why not put it in your blood stream!

Also off the top of my head, if you get the flu shot annually for a number of years (I forget how many) your risk of dementia in your old age increases eight-fold or ten-fold (I forget which).

Mercury is no longer used in vaccines of tooth fillings.

[Atlanta Man]

(02-04-2015 03:11 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(02-04-2015 02:58 AM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 11:34 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  

Some really great points here on both sides. Learned a lot from this thread. I have kids. Gave them all their vaccines except for measles mumps rubella, hep c (why they give new born babies hep c vaccines is disturbing) and no hpv vaccines or flu shots.

Here's an interesting article on where doctors go to die: http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240...2?mobile=y

There is no Hep C vaccine, it does not exist.

I believe this is true, but for travel to 3rd world countries vaccination for A and/or B, I forget which are available, is recommended.

I went to a great travel medicine clinic in San Francisco with specially trained nursed who know travel medicine, I got a vaccination for Yellow Fever I think which I knew nothing about but if someone took the trouble to make a vaccine it's probably not a lot of fun to have.

That is correct there is a vaccine for Hep B,because it acts as a oncogene but Hep A is asymptomatic so vaccination is possible but unnecessary because Hep A is self limiting.

[Atlanta Man]

(08-28-2014 04:40 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 04:37 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  

My thought is this. Vaccines are why we got rid of diseases like polio and other crazy shit that killed tons of people in previous generations. In that sense vaccines are good and worth the risk.

On the flip side if you look at the "ingredients" or things in vaccines there's some pretty terrible shit in there. Also, though no concrete evidence necessarily there's some causality to at least suggest maybe they can cause other problems.

I think for things like polio and other things of course we should get vaccinated, for something like chicken pox I'd probably say fuckit, I'd prefer to put less shit in my kids bodies and chicken pox isn't going to kill them, I'll roll the dice and chance them getting chicken pox but polio, nope.

SOmething else interesting, as long as it's a very small minority who don't have vaccines does it really matter for them? I mean if one kid in a school doesn't have a vaccine but everyone else does where is he gonna catch polio from?

He's not if he's the only kid who doesn't have the vaccine and never encounters polio. The problems start when such thinking and practices becomes more widespread, however.

And smarter users than I will have to chime in on this, but isn't there a chance an unvaccinated person could catch a disease we've all been vaccinated against, have it mutate inside them, and then put the rest of us at risk?

The problem with not vaccinating your children is that they may come in contact with the virus from someone not vaccinated indirectly, or they may get the virus stay asymptomatic and pass it on to someone too young to be vaccinated.

There is no risk of the vaccinated getting a mutated disease from the unvaccinated. The only mutations that currently pose a risk are Influenza virus, and Bacteria mutations that make them resistant to treatment. Note that the Influenza virus does not cause pneumonia, it weakens the mucociliary defenses of the lung and lead to a superimposed bacterial infection.

[infowarrior1]

(02-04-2015 12:49 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

(02-04-2015 12:48 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

(02-04-2015 12:43 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

If you think about it, anti-vaxxers sound a lot like the "paleo" and "no shampoo" people.

Isn't Roosh a ''no shampoo'' guy?

http://www.rooshv.com/why-men-shouldnt-use-shampoo

Not sure what point you're trying to make. I'm a no shampoo guy, too lazy/sleepy to not use shampoo daily for the past decade.

Its the conflation of the ''no shampoo'' people with the anti-vaxxers.

[Basil Ransom]

It's silly to conflate support for specific vaccines to mean support for ALL vaccines - but that's what liars and scam artists do, and the anti-vaxxers who do so are much the same.

Are there vaccines that are bullshit? No doubt. I recall reading how some company concocted an avian or swine flu vaccine and sold it to the government for millions, and it didn't even work. Meanwhile, there's lots of skepticism surrounding the efficacy of flu vaccines. Just because something has the status of being a "medication," it doesn't mean it actually works, and vaccines are no different. Citing the case of one vaccine to object to a wholly different vaccine is a sure indicator that you are a nutjob who can't think straight.

Without knowing anything about the measles vaccine, it seems to be an obvious success - measles was eliminated from places where everyone was inoculated. Together with a lack of evidentiary support for a link to autism, anti-vaxxers have an extremely high bar to coear here.

Compare that with the paleo diet - the paleo diet and other high saturated fat diets flout the conventional wisdom, just like anti-vaxxers. Except with the advent of current mainstream dietary wisdom, obesity is ubiquitous, where they weren't in eras prior. So there is every reason to find fault with the mainstream wisdom. With the measles vaccine, the disease was prevalent prior to its use... suggesting the vaccine had something to do with the elimination of the disease, to put it mildly.

The government should bar all non-vaccinated children from going to public schools, and private schools should consider doing the same. Perhaps the government should withhold funding to private and charter schools that do not require vaccinations.

[Daedmo]

Viral infections can trigger autoimmune diseases. Some vaccines are basically inactivated viruses so it's not too much of a stretch to imagine a vaccine doing the same. Anything that stimulates an immune response can have negative outcomes.

Even if they are perfectly safe that is not the issue here. The issue is the nanny state vs freedom. If you don't want yourself or your kid to have them that that should be your choice. Conformist big-government leftists support compulsory mass-vaccination so I instinctively oppose it.

[Darius]

(02-04-2015 09:23 AM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

It's silly to conflate support for specific vaccines to mean support for ALL vaccines - but that's what liars and scam artists do, and the anti-vaxxers who do so are much the same.

Are there vaccines that are bullshit? No doubt. I recall reading how some company concocted an avian or swine flu vaccine and sold it to the government for millions, and it didn't even work. Meanwhile, there's lots of skepticism surrounding the efficacy of flu vaccines. Just because something has the status of being a "medication," it doesn't mean it actually works, and vaccines are no different. Citing the case of one vaccine to object to a wholly different vaccine is a sure indicator that you are a nutjob who can't think straight.

Without knowing anything about the measles vaccine, it seems to be an obvious success - measles was eliminated from places where everyone was inoculated. Together with a lack of evidentiary support for a link to autism, anti-vaxxers have an extremely high bar to coear here.

Compare that with the paleo diet - the paleo diet and other high saturated fat diets flout the conventional wisdom, just like anti-vaxxers. Except with the advent of current mainstream dietary wisdom, obesity is ubiquitous, where they weren't in eras prior. So there is every reason to find fault with the mainstream wisdom. With the measles vaccine, the disease was prevalent prior to its use... suggesting the vaccine had something to do with the elimination of the disease, to put it mildly.

The government should bar all non-vaccinated children from going to public schools, and private schools should consider doing the same. Perhaps the government should withhold funding to private and charter schools that do not require vaccinations.

Where do you draw the line? If you don't get the flu shot, should you be barred from schools?

The problem is Big Pharma has got it's tentacles in the government and wants the government to do exactly what you are suggesting. They want the government to force you to buy it's products. Either that or directly by their products with the public's money. It's a slippery slope driven by fear mongering.

[Atlanta Man]

(02-06-2015 06:33 AM)Daedmo Wrote:  

Viral infections can trigger autoimmune diseases. Some vaccines are basically inactivated viruses so it's not too much of a stretch to imagine a vaccine doing the same. Anything that stimulates an immune response can have negative outcomes.

Even if they are perfectly safe that is not the issue here. The issue is the nanny state vs freedom. If you don't want yourself or your kid to have them that that should be your choice. Conformist big-government leftists support compulsory mass-vaccination so I instinctively oppose it.

I agree that the United States has made mistakes with vaccines in the past (see:Mercury) and that many people distrust Big Pharma. Having said that no one avoids the Salk vaccine because time has proved its safety. I believe parents should have the ultimate say in their child's health decisions, but actions (and in-actions) have consequences and having seen the consequences on not vaccinating for MMR can we agree the vaccine is better than not having the adaptive immune system prepared for the possible infection?

[Basil Ransom]

No one's forcing vaccinations. I proposed requiring them for public school attendees. Don't want to vaccinate? Don't send your kid to school and put other kids at risk. You have a problen with that? I guess you're a nanny state leftist big government conformist after all.

[PittFighter]

I can't believe this is a real topic.

There is a risk to any vaccine, of course. But the risk outweighs the benefits. If you don't get sick and you didn't get the vaccine you're lucky or you were protected by herd immunity. There is a reason we all live twice as long as our great grandfathers' generation.

[Glaucon]

Haha,go into the jungle for a week without any tropical vaccines. It is going to be an "interesting" trip. Just write your last will before it.

[Daedmo]

(02-07-2015 12:36 AM)Glaucon Wrote:  

Haha,go into the jungle for a week without any tropical vaccines. It is going to be an "interesting" trip. Just write your last will before it.

Do you think getting a flu shot every year is a good idea? It might be a for the vaccine manufacturers but the benefits for someone who isn't very young or very old are negligible.

[spokepoker]

(02-07-2015 12:44 AM)Daedmo Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 12:36 AM)Glaucon Wrote:  

Haha,go into the jungle for a week without any tropical vaccines. It is going to be an "interesting" trip. Just write your last will before it.

Do you think getting a flu shot every year is a good idea? It might be a for the vaccine manufacturers but the benefits for someone who isn't very young or very old are negligible.

It's more about protecting those who cannot get vaccinated, than it is about you yourself not getting sick.
I would feel pretty horrible if my sister's newborn died from something contracted from me, something that could have easily been prevented with a little vaccine shot.

You probably won't die from the flu, but don't be selfish by putting those with weak immune systems at risk.

[Phoenix]

My understanding is that the flu vaccine is produced by guessing. The manufacturer guesses what kinds of strains are likely to show up this season and chucks them in the vaccine. There is only a chance that it will help you. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

There's a big difference between this every year for a disease like the flu, versus a one-off vaccine for something like polio.

[Basil Ransom]

Yeah when someone is building their case against vaccines on the basis of FLU vaccines, it's obvious they don't have a leg to stand on...

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(02-04-2015 09:23 AM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

It's silly to conflate support for specific vaccines to mean support for ALL vaccines - but that's what liars and scam artists do, and the anti-vaxxers who do so are much the same.

Are there vaccines that are bullshit? No doubt. I recall reading how some company concocted an avian or swine flu vaccine and sold it to the government for millions, and it didn't even work. Meanwhile, there's lots of skepticism surrounding the efficacy of flu vaccines. Just because something has the status of being a "medication," it doesn't mean it actually works, and vaccines are no different. Citing the case of one vaccine to object to a wholly different vaccine is a sure indicator that you are a nutjob who can't think straight.

Without knowing anything about the measles vaccine, it seems to be an obvious success - measles was eliminated from places where everyone was inoculated. Together with a lack of evidentiary support for a link to autism, anti-vaxxers have an extremely high bar to coear here.

Compare that with the paleo diet - the paleo diet and other high saturated fat diets flout the conventional wisdom, just like anti-vaxxers. Except with the advent of current mainstream dietary wisdom, obesity is ubiquitous, where they weren't in eras prior. So there is every reason to find fault with the mainstream wisdom. With the measles vaccine, the disease was prevalent prior to its use... suggesting the vaccine had something to do with the elimination of the disease, to put it mildly.

The government should bar all non-vaccinated children from going to public schools, and private schools should consider doing the same. Perhaps the government should withhold funding to private and charter schools that do not require vaccinations.

I disagree. The obesity epidemic is a result of people sitting around on their fat asses.
Paleo diet is a fad and a myth. Hunter gatherers ate wild grains.
They didn't have obesity because you can't take down a wooly mammoth if you are fat and out of shape. They were constantly physically active to meet their daily necessities.

Calories consumed - calories expended = net caloric intake = body weight maintenance or change.

This hasn't changed.


On vaccines though, you are spot on. But I wouldn't make home schooling an option. All children must be vaccinated unless medically contraindicated. Just because their parents are retarded doesn't mean they deserve to suffer. Not vaccinating your children = child abuse.

[Daedmo]

(02-07-2015 09:25 AM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

Yeah when someone is building their case against vaccines on the basis of FLU vaccines, it's obvious they don't have a leg to stand on...

Like I said before, the anti anti-vaccine movement isn't motivated by altruism, but rather a fear of people who question authority.

Questioning authority is very important, especially in times like these where you have the very highest levels of government routinely telling us outright lies.

Remember the 80s when AIDS was going to kill us all? Rather than focus on homosexuals and drug addicts the authorities lied to us and said everyone was at risk. Government thought that protecting the homosexual lifestyle from negative attention was more important than the truth. Government lies, even when it comes to life and death matters.

What about H1N1? I knew that was a scam as soon as I saw the media beating it up. The UK government spent over a billion on vaccines for a strain of flu that ended up killing less people than regular flu.

Pro-vaccine types strike me as the same group of people who get their panties in a twist about homeschooling. The horror of little kids missing out on their 12 year government brainwashing and indoctrination session is almost too much for them to cope with.

The problem for these people is not the spread of disease, its unconventional thinking, independence of thought. Vaccines have their place, but this "government knows best" attitude is unhealthy.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(02-07-2015 10:28 AM)Daedmo Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 09:25 AM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

Yeah when someone is building their case against vaccines on the basis of FLU vaccines, it's obvious they don't have a leg to stand on...

Like I said before, the anti anti-vaccine movement isn't motivated by altruism, but rather a fear of people who question authority.

Questioning authority is very important, especially in times like these where you have the very highest levels of government routinely telling us outright lies.

Remember the 80s when AIDS was going to kill us all? Rather than focus on homosexuals and drug addicts the authorities lied to us and said everyone was at risk. Government thought that protecting the homosexual lifestyle from negative attention was more important than the truth. Government lies, even when it comes to life and death matters.

What about H1N1? I knew that was a scam as soon as I saw the media beating it up. The UK government spent over a billion on vaccines for a strain of flu that ended up killing less people than regular flu.

Pro-vaccine types strike me as the same group of people who get their panties in a twist about homeschooling. The horror of little kids missing out on their 12 year government brainwashing and indoctrination session is almost too much for them to cope with.

The problem for these people is not the spread of disease, its unconventional thinking, independence of thought. Vaccines have their place, but this "government knows best" attitude is unhealthy.

[aSimpNamedBrokeback]

(02-07-2015 10:28 AM)Daedmo Wrote:  

What about H1N1? I knew that was a scam as soon as I saw the media beating it up. The UK government spent over a billion on vaccines for a strain of flu that ended up killing less people than regular flu.

The H1N1 the ended killing 150,000-500,000 people worldwide. Thats not much of an argument against the regular flu vaccine, if the regular flu kills more people than that.

Quote:

Remember the 80s when AIDS was going to kill us all? Rather than focus on homosexuals and drug addicts the authorities lied to us and said everyone was at risk. Government thought that protecting the homosexual lifestyle from negative attention was more important than the truth. Government lies, even when it comes to life and death matters.

This makes me laugh, do you really think the govt was trying to protect the homosexual lifestyle back in the 80s? Its a SEXUALLY transmitted disease. How does telling everyone to wear a condom protect homosexuals?

[Daedmo]

(02-07-2015 10:36 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 10:28 AM)Daedmo Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 09:25 AM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

Yeah when someone is building their case against vaccines on the basis of FLU vaccines, it's obvious they don't have a leg to stand on...

Like I said before, the anti anti-vaccine movement isn't motivated by altruism, but rather a fear of people who question authority.

Questioning authority is very important, especially in times like these where you have the very highest levels of government routinely telling us outright lies.

Remember the 80s when AIDS was going to kill us all? Rather than focus on homosexuals and drug addicts the authorities lied to us and said everyone was at risk. Government thought that protecting the homosexual lifestyle from negative attention was more important than the truth. Government lies, even when it comes to life and death matters.

What about H1N1? I knew that was a scam as soon as I saw the media beating it up. The UK government spent over a billion on vaccines for a strain of flu that ended up killing less people than regular flu.

Pro-vaccine types strike me as the same group of people who get their panties in a twist about homeschooling. The horror of little kids missing out on their 12 year government brainwashing and indoctrination session is almost too much for them to cope with.

The problem for these people is not the spread of disease, its unconventional thinking, independence of thought. Vaccines have their place, but this "government knows best" attitude is unhealthy.

Congratulations on getting your post count up without any of the effort it takes to write an actual response. Welcome to my ignore list.

[Daedmo]

(02-07-2015 10:50 AM)aSimpNamedBrokeback Wrote:  

This makes me laugh, do you really think the govt was trying to protect the homosexual lifestyle back in the 80s? Its a SEXUALLY transmitted disease. How does telling everyone to wear a condom protect homosexuals?

Do you know it's original name was GRID (Gay Related Immunological Deficiency) but it was changed to the more politically correct AIDS for obvious reasons.

In the west AIDS is primarily a homosexual phenomenon. 1 in 20 gays has HIV for Christ sake! 1 in 9 in major cities. In San Francisco it's 1 in 5! Government lied and said everyone's at risk to take the focus off homosexuals and their disease spreading lifestyle. Why is that hard to understand? Gays were a protected species even back then.

The chances of getting HIV from a heterosexual encounter is next to nothing.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(02-07-2015 10:55 AM)Daedmo Wrote:  

Congratulations on getting your post count up without any of the effort it takes to write an actual response. Welcome to my ignore list.

If at any point your post had contained a modicum of rational thought worthy of a response, I would have been glad to respond.

Honestly you sound like a sad, confused, scared person who has a shitty life. I know a few people like you. Be very afraid, and assume that people are out to get you but you are so much more smarterererererer than everyone you'll figure it out.

[aSimpNamedBrokeback]

(02-07-2015 11:11 AM)Daedmo Wrote:  

Do you know it's original name was GRID (Gay Related Immunological Deficiency) but it was changed to the more politically correct AIDS for obvious reasons.

Do you think maybe they changed the name when they had a better understanding of what the virus was. You do realize the virus can be transmitted from a M-F pretty much the same way its transmitted M-M? Also if they wanted to be PC why would they call it GRID in the first place.

[WesternCancer]

Lotsa in this thread.

[Darius]

(02-06-2015 11:59 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

No one's forcing vaccinations. I proposed requiring them for public school attendees. Don't want to vaccinate? Don't send your kid to school and put other kids at risk. You have a problen with that? I guess you're a nanny state leftist big government conformist after all.

Is this a serious response. It seems on the level of "are you maed bro?"