[SVK]

^^^

There are some quantity discounts as well, but lets's say your average rate is only $15/hour. To make $1500 a week, that's 100 "dog hours". With 5 dogs at the same time that's only 20 hours a week to make this kind of money. Now imagine you expand cust. base and employ several people and pay them 70% of your rate (not a bad deal for them) - that is some decent business.

[The Beast1]

America is awesome if you know how to game the system.

The masses out there that are happy to become debt ridden serfs with a leased car and a rented apartment are the people the system strip mines.

I'd hazard a bet and say that if you post on RvF and have the desire to better yourself, then America is your playground. The system benefitsyou. Learn the buttons and levers around you that make money and start pulling them.

The trick is not going down the beaten path while making your own. Unless you're a genius and can land yourself into a tier 1 university, the whole "go to college, get a job, blah" path is useless and there is a reason most college graduates outside of ivy league schools are suffering.

You're all clever and smart. You guys know how to do this.

[Grit]

Say you grow up in a time where savings accounts accrue 4% interest.

If you have 20,000 in the bank, you earn $800 monthly in interest.
If you have 40,000 in the bank, you earn $1600 monthly in interest.
If you have 80,000 in the bank, you earn $3200 monthly in interest.

Say whatever you want about personal drive, but the person born into a 4% interest society is going to be so profoundly different than you or I that we can barely relate. This 4% guy can work at a basic level for a few years- and then he gets paid to exist and sit on his savings. How does it feel to get paid for existing? How do men treat each other in that kind circumstance? You cannot deny the impact the market has, and the impact it has on your personality.

Now consider that from 1971 to 2014, the average interest rate was SIX percent. How is that possible? No one in their 30s or younger has seen a rate like that since having reached adulthood. The reason is that the rate was so fucking amazing, like SIXTEEN percent, in the pre 90s that it balances out the utter shit rates of the 2000s. Can you imagine 16% return on savings? Bank twenty grand and you are making $3200 MONTHLY on interest.

I just don't buy the hustle mentality. Have a conversation about QE absolutely fucking destroying the value of saving. Then we are getting somewhere.

[el mechanico]

^^^

An amount of $2,340.00 is deposited in a bank paying an annual interest rate of 3.1%, compounded continuously. Find the balance after 3 years.


Use the continuous compound interest formula, A = Pe rt, with P = 2340, r = 3.1/100 = 0.031, t = 3. Recall that e stands for the Napier's number (base of the natural logarithm) which is approximately 2.7183. However, one does not have to plug this value in the formula, as the calculator has a built-in key for e. Therefore,
Example Solution
So, the balance after 3 years is approximately $2,568.06.

[Tail Gunner]

(03-06-2014 04:32 PM)Grit Wrote:  

Say you grow up in a time where savings accounts accrue 4% interest.

If you have 20,000 in the bank, you earn $800 monthly in interest.
If you have 40,000 in the bank, you earn $1600 monthly in interest.
If you have 80,000 in the bank, you earn $3200 monthly in interest.

Those numbers result from a yearly interest rate of four percent, not a monthly interest rate of four percent.

But I agree with your thesis. There is a big difference between earning six percent a year on a one million dollar account ($60,000) versus one percent ($10,000). You can live comfortably on the first one, while you might be eating cat food on the second. It is institutionalized theft by the Fed from savers -- and a transfer of wealth from the middle class to Wall Street.

[Hispanic_Reasoning]

(03-06-2014 04:17 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

America is awesome if you know how to game the system.

The masses out there that are happy to become debt ridden serfs with a leased car and a rented apartment are the people the system strip mines.

I'd hazard a bet and say that if you post on RvF and have the desire to better yourself, then America is your playground. The system benefitsyou. Learn the buttons and levers around you that make money and start pulling them.

The trick is not going down the beaten path while making your own. Unless you're a genius and can land yourself into a tier 1 university, the whole "go to college, get a job, blah" path is useless and there is a reason most college graduates outside of ivy league schools are suffering.

You're all clever and smart. You guys know how to do this.

game the system. one way to game the system is go to CC if you really want to see if going to college is for you. I have decided that I am only going to get my AA and leave college.

[Feisbook Control]

(03-06-2014 04:32 PM)Grit Wrote:  

Say you grow up in a time where savings accounts accrue 4% interest.

If you have 20,000 in the bank, you earn $800 monthly in interest.
If you have 40,000 in the bank, you earn $1600 monthly in interest.
If you have 80,000 in the bank, you earn $3200 monthly in interest.

Say whatever you want about personal drive, but the person born into a 4% interest society is going to be so profoundly different than you or I that we can barely relate. This 4% guy can work at a basic level for a few years- and then he gets paid to exist and sit on his savings. How does it feel to get paid for existing? How do men treat each other in that kind circumstance? You cannot deny the impact the market has, and the impact it has on your personality.

Now consider that from 1971 to 2014, the average interest rate was SIX percent. How is that possible? No one in their 30s or younger has seen a rate like that since having reached adulthood. The reason is that the rate was so fucking amazing, like SIXTEEN percent, in the pre 90s that it balances out the utter shit rates of the 2000s. Can you imagine 16% return on savings? Bank twenty grand and you are making $3200 MONTHLY on interest.

I just don't buy the hustle mentality. Have a conversation about QE absolutely fucking destroying the value of saving. Then we are getting somewhere.

The other thing you are missing is that you're romanticising the 1970s and 1980s. There was some brutal stagflation and an energy crisis then in several countries that took until the end of Reagan's first term to sort out if I remember correctly (which I may not be). My father said that in the early 80s, a home loan in Australia was ~17% p.a. So whilst some guy who had cash in the bank was probably getting 15% on it, another guy (my Dad) was paying 17% for it. Ouch! Could you imagine 17% interest rates now? People would be cutting off one another's limbs and eating them raw in the street because the debt load is so much bigger now.

We can say this decade or that decade was better or worse. Are governments trying to do their best to screw things up? Undoubtedly. There's either a conspiracy or they're grossly incompetent, and either is not good at all. Yet that's beside the point. Some people have profited decade after decade, through depressions, wars, famines, plagues and all the rest of it. There are always winners. Always. Why?

You can't look at the world as a static place. That's like nailing both of your feet to the ground and painting a big target on your chest. Instead, you can look at profiting from disorder and become one of the winners.

If we are in a robber baron phase of history, then own it. Be one of the robber barons or get the hell out of Dodge.

[speakeasy]

For someone starting out in their late teens early 20s, here's something that can be done as an alternative to college and a 9-5 for life. If you can get one of the ass-busting jobs in the oil fields that pays 100k a year and do that for a decade, you could have a million in cash. I'm not sure how much of that 100k you would net, I understand some of those oil companies pay for living expenses and some may not. This assume you aren't spending money on bullshit like alcohol, drugs, cars and consumer crap. Suppose you did this for 10-12 years and socked away a mil. If you could even get a 4% return on your investment that would be $40k a year. You could then live indefinitely in EE, SEA or LA on passive income. 40k a year in those countries would be quite comfortable, you could probably be very comfortable on even half that. So if you saved 500k in half a decade and put it in a 4% yielding investment, you'd still be looking at 20k a year for doing nothing.

[lavidaloca]

(03-06-2014 08:03 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

For someone starting out in their late teens early 20s, here's something that can be done as an alternative to college and a 9-5 for life. If you can get one of the ass-busting jobs in the oil fields that pays 100k a year and do that for a decade, you could have a million in cash. I'm not sure how much of that 100k you would net, I understand some of those oil companies pay for living expenses and some may not. This assume you aren't spending money on bullshit like alcohol, drugs, cars and consumer crap. Suppose you did this for 10-12 years and socked away a mil. If you could even get a 4% return on your investment that would be $40k a year. You could then live indefinitely in EE, SEA or LA on passive income. 40k a year in those countries would be quite comfortable, you could probably be very comfortable on even half that. So if you saved 500k in half a decade and put it in a 4% yielding investment, you'd still be looking at 20k a year for doing nothing.

Thats true but you'd still have to contend with inflation. To contend with it you'd have to be in equities and if there was a crash in one of the years following you'd have to curb your spending. It sounds good at 40k a year, but what is 40k worth 30 years from now? 15k? So you'd need to have to keep growing the value of your investment in order to maintain a similar lifestyle year by year.

[SVK]

(03-06-2014 08:03 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

For someone starting out in their late teens early 20s, here's something that can be done as an alternative to college and a 9-5 for life. If you can get one of the ass-busting jobs in the oil fields that pays 100k a year and do that for a decade, you could have a million in cash. I'm not sure how much of that 100k you would net, I understand some of those oil companies pay for living expenses and some may not. This assume you aren't spending money on bullshit like alcohol, drugs, cars and consumer crap. Suppose you did this for 10-12 years and socked away a mil. If you could even get a 4% return on your investment that would be $40k a year. You could then live indefinitely in EE, SEA or LA on passive income. 40k a year in those countries would be quite comfortable, you could probably be very comfortable on even half that. So if you saved 500k in half a decade and put it in a 4% yielding investment, you'd still be looking at 20k a year for doing nothing.

With that kind of cash (or any cash, really) you could make a lot better investments than that. Even just annualized stock market return (e.g. DJIA) for the past 30 years was about 9% a year, this is counting all the nasty recessions and market crashes.

[speakeasy]

(03-06-2014 08:40 PM)SVK Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 08:03 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

For someone starting out in their late teens early 20s, here's something that can be done as an alternative to college and a 9-5 for life. If you can get one of the ass-busting jobs in the oil fields that pays 100k a year and do that for a decade, you could have a million in cash. I'm not sure how much of that 100k you would net, I understand some of those oil companies pay for living expenses and some may not. This assume you aren't spending money on bullshit like alcohol, drugs, cars and consumer crap. Suppose you did this for 10-12 years and socked away a mil. If you could even get a 4% return on your investment that would be $40k a year. You could then live indefinitely in EE, SEA or LA on passive income. 40k a year in those countries would be quite comfortable, you could probably be very comfortable on even half that. So if you saved 500k in half a decade and put it in a 4% yielding investment, you'd still be looking at 20k a year for doing nothing.

With that kind of cash (or any cash, really) you could make a lot better investments than that. Even just annualized stock market return (e.g. DJIA) for the past 30 years was about 9% a year, this is counting all the nasty recessions and market crashes.

Right. I just threw 4% out there as the absolute minimum that you could do with 500k-1mil. If you are savvy then obviously the sky is the limit. But even at the very minimum investment you could live in a pussy paradise and only work whenever you wanted to.

[babelfish669]

(03-06-2014 04:32 PM)Grit Wrote:  

Say you grow up in a time where savings accounts accrue 4% interest.

If you have 20,000 in the bank, you earn $800 monthly in interest.
If you have 40,000 in the bank, you earn $1600 monthly in interest.
If you have 80,000 in the bank, you earn $3200 monthly in interest.

Thats more like

Lets fix that, if interest rates are 4% and it compounds once per year:
If you have 20,000 in the bank, you earn $66.66 monthly in interest.
If you have 40,000 in the bank, you earn $133.33 monthly in interest.
If you have 80,000 in the bank, you earn $266.66 monthly in interest.

If it compounds monthly, it will be a few more dollars. Take out taxes.

There are stocks and bonds that pay out over 4% per year. Leave money in the bank when you need it to be liquid.

If you are a male, physically in good health, have an IQ of at least 100, and don't suffer from any debilitating diseases or mental illness, and you are complaining about America having no opportunities you are a fucking loser, that is all there is to it.

If you are a female with young children, have an IQ under 100, can't work, are sick, are mentally ill, have some sort of debilitating disease, then yes, your opportunities are going to be very limited. You are going to have to work extremely hard and likely still be around or below the poverty line. There may be other countries you'll be better off in but you will still be far better off than the average human in X condition.

[Orion]

Funny thing is, there are tons of you thinking about moving out, but i would not say no to a job opportunity in USA, considering very shitty incomes here where i live. Well, a job opportunity in some decent city. I could have stayed illegally, but it isn't really my type of thing. I'm not desperate.

So as much as you complain about economy and social ladder - you always have choice. You can save up, you can invest, you can squander it all on hookers and cocaine, or live minimalist lifestyle. In my home country, even what is considered middle class family earns such crappy money one has to display some really acrobatic skills in order to live above the average. So, there are very few spots outside US where you can acquire more cash (if it's only about cash and not seeking ideal society).

Tho, if i had to pick, I'd rather choose Canada from the Anglosphere. Kind of more relaxed.

[speakeasy]

(03-06-2014 09:17 PM)Orion Wrote:  

Funny thing is, there are tons of you thinking about moving out, but i would not say no to a job opportunity in USA, considering very shitty incomes here where i live. Well, a job opportunity in some decent city. I could have stayed illegally, but it isn't really my type of thing. I'm not desperate.

So as much as you complain about economy and social ladder - you always have choice. You can save up, you can invest, you can squander it all on hookers and cocaine, or live minimalist lifestyle. In my home country, even what is considered middle class family earns such crappy money one has to display some really acrobatic skills in order to live above the average. So, there are very few spots outside US where you can acquire more cash (if it's only about cash and not seeking ideal society).

Tho, if i had to pick, I'd rather choose Canada from the Anglosphere. Kind of more relaxed.

For making money, I think Australia is the number one Anglo country to be now. Strong economy, job market and currency. It's nothing for blue collar guys there to make over 100k a year.

[DrugAdvisor]

@Orion

R u from SEA by any chance? The middle income group in SEA ex Singapore is a farce really. Basically just the cash cow for corrupt government officials to siphon taxpayers money out of their home land. That's why running an efficient successful business is so important here even if it means greasing a few palms on the way.

That said, given the chance I would also like to live in the states, but as an alien, for 3 months out of the year as it really is cheap there compared to where I'm from in SEA.

After reading the forum for so long, I truly believe location independence is the way to go for the future. Especially for tax purposes.

[la_mode]

There's probably more hoarded money by the ultra-wealthy than money in circulation at this point in America. It's a competition they have to see who can literally hoard more money, simply as a financial buffer zone.

Capitalism.

[Suga "N' Creame]

(03-05-2014 01:41 PM)Baphomet Wrote:  

Those "statistics" didn't stop me. But, no worries. So, you're moving then?

Ukraine?

[Steve9]

(03-06-2014 08:54 PM)babelfish669 Wrote:  

There are stocks and bonds that pay out over 4% per year. Leave money in the bank when you need it to be liquid.

Here is the annual and compounded return of Stocks, Cash, and Bonds from 1928 - 2013 :

http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New...retSP.html

(Note that this is starting just before the Great Depression when Stocks got smashed)

$100 invested in Stocks would now be worth $255,553

$100 invested in Cash (3 month t-bill) would now be worth $1,972

$100 invested in Bonds would now be worth $6,295

Investing in Stocks is a no-brainer provided that you will not need that money within the next 5 years.

[Dr. Howard]

(03-06-2014 08:54 PM)babelfish669 Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:32 PM)Grit Wrote:  

Say you grow up in a time where savings accounts accrue 4% interest.

If you have 20,000 in the bank, you earn $800 monthly in interest.
If you have 40,000 in the bank, you earn $1600 monthly in interest.
If you have 80,000 in the bank, you earn $3200 monthly in interest.

Thats more like

Lets fix that, if interest rates are 4% and it compounds once per year:
If you have 20,000 in the bank, you earn $66.66 monthly in interest.
If you have 40,000 in the bank, you earn $133.33 monthly in interest.
If you have 80,000 in the bank, you earn $266.66 monthly in interest.

.....

If you are a female with young children, have an IQ under 100, can't work, are sick, are mentally ill, have some sort of debilitating disease, then yes, your opportunities are going to be very limited. You are going to have to work extremely hard and likely still be around or below the poverty line. There may be other countries you'll be better off in but you will still be far better off than the average human in X condition.

If you are female with young children with a debilitating disease, in america, you are amazingly well off. I did the math once and the combined support programs of medicaid, supplemental social security income, food stamps, subsidized housing, child support equates to about the same standard of living of someone who works a 42k/year job with no benefits.

Being a male with under 100 iq, divorced without custody of kids earning under 25k and/or intermittently unemployed in america is probably the most situation fucked you can be in america. No to low tax and government benefits and child support tax and low earning potential.

Even then you can likely still afford a one bedroom basement apartment in a neighborhood where you can park your car in the driveway without it being stolen overnight. So, not as bad as living somewhere else.

[Orion]

(03-06-2014 10:24 PM)DrugAdvisor Wrote:  

@Orion

R u from SEA by any chance? The middle income group in SEA ex Singapore is a farce really. Basically just the cash cow for corrupt government officials to siphon taxpayers money out of their home land. That's why running an efficient successful business is so important here even if it means greasing a few palms on the way.

That said, given the chance I would also like to live in the states, but as an alien, for 3 months out of the year as it really is cheap there compared to where I'm from in SEA.

After reading the forum for so long, I truly believe location independence is the way to go for the future. Especially for tax purposes.

Nope, South-East Europe. But yes, middle class here is mule for the state as well. Poor people don't pay taxes, rich people don't pay taxes. I'd honestly rather be playing some music for a modest income than grind my fingers on a keyboard in some cubicle with rotting furniture for an income 80% of which i will one way or the other hand over to the state. Trouble is, we don't even have real private retirement funds. I can only buy some life insurance, which is not that bad option.

So, when you have options, and you earn decent wages, you really have tons of opportunities. That's good thing about North America.

[WD-40]

(03-06-2014 02:27 PM)SVK Wrote:  

This Cadillac commercial that was being aired during the Sochi olympics says it all:

Always cringed when I've seen that. Big fan of Mr. MoneyMustache and Early Retirement Extreme. This commercial is pretty much a complete antithesis to what they preach.

To be able to afford the 2014 Cadillac ELR (base MSRP: ~75K), your gross annual income would have to be at least 200K.

This is according to the How much should you spend on a car formula, which is still far from being truly conservative in its assumptions.

My own take on this would be that you can't afford a vehicle unless you can buy it outright- from your cash savings- and still retain a rainy day fund of at least 2 months worth of net income. To actually be able to afford merely to purchase the ELR (and I'm not even talking about running it) you would have to have socked away probably at least 90K of cold hard cash.

So to borrow a line from Louis C.K. ... of course... of course... of course...you can afford to buy that car with an easy monthly payment... in America. But maybe .... maybe ... not.

And once you've seen through the scam, you won't want to.

Mr. Money Mustache is right on the money.

[Hotwheels]

Most of the higher end Caddy's we sell are generally purchased outright. About the only time a guy finances an Escalade is if the factory is running 0% interest.

[Seadog]

Yes America is still a great place to succeed if you have drive and above average intelligence. If. As an expat, I think Indonesia is a great country. I make by lunch what the average person makes there in a year. I can eat the best restaurants and stay in the best hotels in a city of 15m. However the problem with both of those is looking at them with the benefit of hindsight. What if you had to spin the wheel again? Maybe above or below average intelligence, maybe above or below average drive? Could be born anywhere on the social spectrum? Where then?

The fact is mobility in the US is less than other countries. Numerous young people are 6 figures in debt with a worthless degree. But it's no where near like India where if you're from certain classes people wont even talk to you.

However, if you didn't get a worthless degree, and know how to work, and have actually known poverty (like immigrants), then the US will be a pretty good fit.

On the other hand, the US has bred a new class of entitled, lazy, as they say shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in 3 generations? I feel it goes for whole countries too.

The country is paranoid, internally and externally. Its basically the safest time to be alive ever, yet people have never been more afraid of terrorism, crime, bugs, neighbours, school shootings, when all combined are less than the chance you'll die driving. But at least everyone has guns to keep them safe.

As others have said, it sort of depends what you're after. Want to bust your ass working 100 hour weeks, and have the biggest car, and biggest house you never see to show for it? US is your place. Want to work 40 hours a week, and have a nice social existence with your neighbours, have the basics covered and no huge worries like you're be in debt for life because you got sick? Well America might not be the best fit.

Yes there are pitfalls. Post secondary education with a stupid degree is one. Buying into the housing ponzi scheme of the mid 2000s was another. For the people who saw that (or ballsier yet bet against it) you did ok/prospered. That is definitely the exception though. I think I have a decent head on my shoulders, but I realize that most people aren't that smart, which I think is a problem on this board. Here you have people of above average intelligence and drive. So often I think they don't have the ability to step out side themselves. Like the guy who said anyone who says America is materialist, he assumes is poor. Warren Buffet himself said the tax situation was fucked up (rich should be taxed more).