[CamelToe]

(03-03-2014 08:21 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(03-03-2014 08:14 PM)JJJames Wrote:  

Quote:

Customs agents have broad sweeping authority so I don't think you have the right to be silent or withhold passwords. Any lawyers here? Please chirp in

If you're a US citizen, they legally cannot deny you entry to your country. If, for instance, you password protect your phone and refuse to give them the code, unless they can charge you for a crime, they cannot not let you in. The most they can do is delay you for a few hours.

You are missing the issue completely. The issue is whether they can legally search your electronic devices. They can certainly let you back into the U.S., while also confiscating your device if you refuse to provide a password. They will then crack the password and mail the device back to you.

Are you going to get into a fist fight with border agents -- or act proactively to protect your privacy?

I am under the impression that they can search your electronic devices and even confiscate. this article talks about it

http://www.consumertraveler.com/columns/...s-illegal/

[Rutting Elephant]

(03-03-2014 03:51 PM)Wayout Wrote:  

Pretty standard experience as I travel a lot. Always encrypt all your digital media while traveling. Use free truecrypt.They can ask for your password but you don't have to give it to them. You have the right to remain silent at all times. They have the right to search everything ans ask questions - you have the right to tell them it's non of their business!

With Truecrypt you can create a hidden volume, so that even if you give them "the" password they just see some bullshit.

[jamaicabound]

(03-03-2014 08:30 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

Ok, so you can delete everything from your devices....that's one way to prevent them from invading your privacy.

But El Gato says they went through his EMAILS. What happens if you refuse to give them access to emails? Can they force you to give them your facebook password, skype, etc???

Couldn't they ask for entrance to your encrypted cloud account?

I woudln't be too concerned about emails, I would just un sync all emails I didn't want them looking at and login to some junk email I never use so they don't say why did you clear everything off of your phone. They can look through all my spam and affiliate marketing junk I get sent. Obviously if people wanna dig they can find anythign deleted or not but 99.9999% of the time they aren't gonna waste their time on you unless your suspected of something.

[Tail Gunner]

(03-03-2014 08:30 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

Ok, so you can delete everything from your devices....that's one way to prevent them from invading your privacy.

But El Gato says they went through his EMAILS. What happens if you refuse to give them access to emails? Can they force you to give them your facebook password, skype, etc???

Couldn't they ask for entrance to your encrypted cloud account?

I assumed that he used a computer-based email system rather than a web-based system. Otherwise, why would he not say "I don't use e-mail" or else show them the most innocuous of several e-mail accounts. How could they prove otherwise?

[paninaro]

CBP in Dulles gets all kinds of crazy stuff coming through there on a weekly basis. It's in the news every so often. Let's see.. they got a guy bringing in severed goat's heads (a delicacy in the African country he came from); drug traffickers of all types including grandmothers with condoms full of stuff in their stomach or rectum; human smugglers (a guy even was found frozen to death in the wheel well of the South African airways flight 2 weeks ago); and even people who use a decoy baby to look more legit (so some poor baby is stuck with someone not their mother for the trip).

So it's not surprising they do thorough searching some times. I don't really keep anything on my devices -- it's all in the cloud basically.

You could also get Global Entry and avoid talking to a CBP person at passport control entirely. You'd have to speak to one at customs but basically just to hand over your pre-printed Global Entry form.

[Yeti]

(03-03-2014 02:55 PM)poledaddy Wrote:  

I recently got back from a trip to Peru for 11 days. I went to do a Ayahuasca retreat and some hiking in the Andes, not a bang mission. This was my first international trip outside of Montreal, and my first-ever solo trip.

Getting back to the USA (Dulles) the Border Protection/Customs agent asks me a lot of questions about my trip. Then he decides to search my bag. Fine whatever, I got nothing to hide. But then he finds my camera and proceeds to turn it on and look through every single picture, and I mean every last one.

Luckily I had deleted all the pics prior to taking the trip, so the ones on there were only of the mountains. Previously I had pictures/videos of my girlfriend naked on there, and all kinds of other shit. But I had moved them all to my computer before I left for Peru.

He finishes and goes "looks like you stayed at a nice place. I searched your stuff because we see a lot of people going to Peru for drugs and sex. Have a nice night". It was 2am, barely any sleep on bus the prior night, and I had to work the next day so I didn't say anything and just focusing on GTFO of there.

I expected to receive some scrutiny since I traveled solo to a top cocaine-producing country, but to turn on my camera and look through every single pic seemed excessive. Anybody else experience this? Is it legal?

I have a funny story about border crossings.

I was making my way to Canada through the Detroit-Windsor border. It is a godless place and the Canadians have to be suspicious, because it's Detroit. (But I've only tried crossing here once so I may be wrong.)

Anyway, the Canadian border agents are deeply suspicious of me and basically treat me like shit, accusing me of smuggling and tax evasion. It was a really shitty experience, especially because there was a raging thunderstorm just as I arrived, and the power went out. Detroit in the dark is fucking scary.

They start going through my phone and text messges. What the hell?

It's funny because the week before I had been texting people on Craigslist about obtaining hardcore penetration, etc. porn videos for my girlfriend - her birthday was coming up and I wanted something funny for her. So the Canadian border agent sees this goofy-looking white boy with a bunch of texts inquiring about purchasing a box of hardcore porn videos. Not a deportable offense, but it certainly didn't help.

They didn't let me in to Canada.

[nomadicdude]

Another reason America has become a joke of a country and Americans are peons who put up with this crap. You could literally travel to 100 countries and the US would, BY FAR, be the worst place to enter in terms of immigration and customs. A bunch of fascists.

Get. The. Fuck. Out.

[Vacancier Permanent]

A couple of tips I can give you guys to minimize the chance of being questioned too much upon entering the US and or Canada after an overseas trip is to dress your best for your flight back. I usually had a 50-50 chance of being interrogated by the Custom agents and them going through my stuff while dressing low key casual that is shorts or jeans. However for the past 3 years I've always been wearing a suit on my return flights to Canada and so far, haven't been once questionned or had them go through my stuff.

Another tip, this one more applicable to fellow Canadians, is if you speak French, always look for a custom agent with the bilingual sign and greet him/her in French. Doing this, the agent has not asked me a single question, just takes my passport, scans it and gives it back within 10 seconds with a smile and a "bienvenue!".

[Rutting Elephant]

(03-03-2014 11:48 PM)nomadicdude Wrote:  

Another reason America has become a joke of a country and Americans are peons who put up with this crap. You could literally travel to 100 countries and the US would, BY FAR, be the worst place to enter in terms of immigration and customs. A bunch of fascists.

Get. The. Fuck. Out.

My experience is different. Indonesian customs have opened and searched my luggage in front of me two consecutive times; never happened in the US.

[Beyond Borders]

This thread needs a lawyer.

[Yeti]

(03-04-2014 12:59 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

This thread needs a lawyer.

We will just make things up as we go along!

[Vicious]

This is why I never keep nude pics on my phone. As soon as I snap or receive them (girls give them out like blown kisses these days) I upload them to a Google Drive.

When I die and my Google drive account lapses the guy who goes through my online stuff will be suffering from a pant ripping böner that day.

[Beyond Borders]

(03-04-2014 05:55 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

This is why I never keep nude pics on my phone. As soon as I snap or receive them (girls give them out like blown kisses these days) I upload them to a Google Drive.

When I die and my Google drive account lapses the guy who goes through my online stuff will be suffering from a pant ripping böner that day.

I wonder if you can will it to the forum.

[Sp5]

Border searches are a hot topic in the law right now. There is one federal case from N.Y., Abidor v. Napolitano, which just said they can go through your electronic devices without any suspicious facts. There is another federal case from California, U.S. v. Cotterman, which says they need facts leading to reasonable suspicion.

There's a big reaction from lawyers and businesspeople who are concerned about confidentiality. A couple of bills have been filed in Congress, but will probably go nowhere.

[Yeti]

Is there an ethics committee overseeing border guards?

[Sp5]

Border posts are well within the border, so they gotcha. You might have a chance of breaking back and running at the Rio Grande bridges, for example. But no hope at airports. There are lots of people doing minimum mandatories for attempted importation of drugs. Condom swallowers, etc.

[ASOT]

Tons of good advise here for making customs easier. As far as emails the simplest way is to go into the mail settings of iOS and unselect email option for your main accounts, leave your general webmail account there. This way in a search if your email app is opened they only see the emails for the burner accounts, e.g. newsletter and website subscription reminders, disquss comment notifications. If you wanted extra privacy you could remove your main accounts from your phone and add it back once through customs. Doesn't take much time.

Two areas that aren't covered so much:

1. How to keep none email contents of your phone private. There is a ton of info in your facebook, whatsapp, skype, dropbox apps and your photos that you don't want some idiot searching. Short of the labour intensive deleting and reinstalling/reloading after, how can we keep this info from being searched?

2. The legal aspect. For American citizens returning home and for non Americans going to America. What are our obligations in terms of permitting a search? What are our rights in terms of refusing one, and if we wish to refuse how is the best way to do so without having some idiot detain use or confiscate our property for investigation?

[Wayout]

I am not a lawyer but I have talked to one and researched border crossing issues extensively.
Here is the Cliff notes:
1.They can search anyone and everything without a cause.
2. You don't have to answer any of their questions - " I have nothing to say" is the only thing that comes out of your mouth if you feel they are on a fishing expedition.
3. Fact- they can not deny you entry to the US if you are a US citizen! They can detain you for about an hour max without probably cause - then they will have to make something up!
4. They will make copies of all your electronic media for later investigation. Side note: deleting stuff doesn't really delete anything and they will recover what was on it.

How to protect yourself :

1. Use Truecrypt to encrypt everything! If they ask for password - tell them you don't remember it
2.They almost never search your pockets/ clothing unless they find something suspicious in your bags. Keep your phone on you- if they ask ( and they always do) tell them you don't have a cell phone. If they later find it - no big deal - you tell them you lost it and didn't realize it was in your pocket.
3. Take out your microSD card out of your phone or camera and encrypt it first, then hide it on your person or in clothing. The card is so small - it's hard to feel it if it's hidden in a seem of your shirt for example. Even if they find it - it's encrypted and they are out of luck.
4. Take your laptop battery out ( same with the phone) and hide it in your luggage separately. When they get to your laptop and it can't be turned on - they lose interest pretty fast! ))
5. If you feel they are being dicks - ask for a supervisor! The supervisor would have to document everything and they usually stop being dicks and let you go IF they didn't find anything interesting yet.
6. They can confiscate your electronics - but they must return it to you withing 6 months I think. You will get a receipt with a supervisors name and phone number.

If you are not a US citizen - same applies to you but they can also refuse you entry if they feel like it.
Remember - they are not your friends and their job is to find something to charge you with - so don't help them by talking! Be polite but don't let them bully you.

For people who like to talk:
CBP officer : mr.Wayout, what was the purpose of your trip to Ukraine?
Me: I went to Ukraine to finally get laid
CBP: Do you have a girlfriend there?
Me: No
CBP: OK...welcome back!

Any sexual comments make them uncomfortable - especially women! They don't dig any further after hearing you went to Thailand to find a wife and finally get laid. Of course, never mention p4p or anything that can be misinterpreted.

[Tail Gunner]

(03-04-2014 03:49 PM)Wayout Wrote:  

They will make copies of all your electronic media for later investigation. Side note: deleting stuff doesn't really delete anything and they will recover what was on it.

Before you cross any international border, you must use a file shredder program, such as ccleaner, to remove all metadata. Why? Because any data that you "delete" is not really deleted until you write over it with other data. Until then, all such information can be recovered using fairly common recovery programs.

From what I understand, ccleaner is one of the best free file shredder programs.

https://www.piriform.com/ccleaner

[Pacesetter20]

Wayout/anyone else who knows -

I recently was traveling inside the Russian Federation. They asked me to take out my laptop and wanted me to turn it on (I couldn't because the battery was dead), the xray technician (who was by far the hottest airport security xray technician I'd ever seen, but I digress) started scanning it with some huge black device. No idea what they hell she was looking for, do you know?

[Rutting Elephant]

(03-04-2014 04:46 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

Before you cross any international border, you must use a file shredder program, such as ccleaner, to remove all metadata. Why? Because any data that you "delete" is not really deleted until you write over it with other data. Until then, all such information can be recovered using fairly common recovery programs.

From what I understand, ccleaner is one of the best free file shredder programs.

https://www.piriform.com/ccleaner

I use Eraser for entire drives and AxCrypt for individual sensitive files.

[nomadicdude]

Regardless of whether some cases say customs can search you within a certain distance from the border it is fucking bullshit and contrary to what Americans like to think their country stands for. Where do you draw the line? I believe Customs can legally inspect your anus if some redneck power tripping officer has reasonable suspicion that you are hiding drugs up in there. It is just absurd that you are giving power to uneducated trolls who get pleasure out of being dicks.

In a real country, that was really a democracy, and not just a risk adverse peon nation, people would not stand for shit like that. You should not have to fear entering your own fucking country. I've traveled a TON and there is no nation on Earth that has the type of BS border security that the US has. And let's be honest, it's a false security. People think it is justified cause of 9-11, as all things are justified to the peon nation cause of 9-11. I wonder though how many drug dealers, terrorists, or criminals border control finds cause they act like animals to people. They could treat people with respect and still get the same, or even better, results. So fuck these people. And fuck Americans for putting up with this type of shit. They waste all their time bitching about the government because of Obamacare, taxes, regulations, etc but they ignore all these real daily abuses from the security state that are the real fucking problems in this fucked up country.

[Tenerife]

(03-04-2014 05:55 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

This is why I never keep nude pics on my phone. As soon as I snap or receive them (girls give them out like blown kisses these days) I upload them to a Google Drive.

When I die and my Google drive account lapses the guy who goes through my online stuff will be suffering from a pant ripping böner that day.

Lets say I go through the customs and they look through my phone and see a naked picture of a girl that was sent to me. So what? What are they gonna do?

[Dr. Howard]

Isn't the OP canadian and coming into Washington in transit? As a non citizen I know that the searches are voluntary, so you can refuse them, but then they just refuse you entry. VP up above had the best advice, these people see thousands of travellers per day and have to profile/sterotype people quickly. I always dress well if there is a risk of a hassle and the questions go like this "purpose of travel" answer 'business', stamped and released. I get more questions or inspections when i'm dressed down or travelling for personal reasons.

I guess you could always put up a fight for your rights etc but then you get to sit around in secondary or detention, is that waste of your time worth being a legal white knighter?

[Vicious]

(03-05-2014 04:10 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

(03-04-2014 05:55 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

This is why I never keep nude pics on my phone. As soon as I snap or receive them (girls give them out like blown kisses these days) I upload them to a Google Drive.

When I die and my Google drive account lapses the guy who goes through my online stuff will be suffering from a pant ripping böner that day.

Lets say I go through the customs and they look through my phone and see a naked picture of a girl that was sent to me. So what? What are they gonna do?

Read the OP?