[DQA]

Hi guys,

I have been offered an opportunity to work in one of these four cities for the next two years. I haven't been to any of these places, let alone to South or Middle America but I am very excited to do some exploration on the American continent.

For those who have been to one or more of these cities, what city would you rank highest in terms of women and livability. Since I would be going there for two years and have very little knowledge about the area, I would highly appreciate any feedback. Also, I do not speak Spanish so Santiago would probably be a no-go as their Spanish differs significantly from the Spanish spoken in most parts of the world.

Thanks!

[shotgun]

I've been to Santiago and Buenos Aires.

Buenos Aires is the obvious winner between the two. Girls are way hotter and cuter. They are difficult to game but shouldn't be so once you develop a social circle (you will have time for that). And there will be tons of gringas around, too. There is nightlife everyday of the week. Food is excellent. Everything is cheap, especially now that the Peso has plummeted. Public transportation could be better, but even taxis are cheap. And the atmosphere is amazing, too.

Santiago's girls aren't as nearly as hot as porteñas, and they also have a reputation for being difficult. Another issue I have with the city is the low air quality, which makes it tough to breathe after a long walk (the city is surrounded by mountains). On the other hand, public transportation is decent and the economy is quite solid (unlike ARG).

Haven't been to Montevideo, but I heard it's a much more laid back and smaller version of Buenos Aires. Panama I have no idea.

[Jaydublin]

I have been to 3 of them. I'm not 100% sure why but I absolutely love Santiago. Its not that cheap, the women are not that good looking but they are very easy and not stuck up. I'm not sure where the other poster got that Chilean girls were hard but I've never heard that and it isnt what I experienced. I've been twice and I think that I could live in Santiago. You have the beach 1 hour away and the mountains an hour away. Money is flowing and the people are out spending it. I did not enjoy Montevideo a ton and it is hard to play up the gringo card as a lot of people are of European descent , same with BA. Of course BA women are badass.

I think a lot depends on your level of game and Spanish.

[gringochileno]

I'm gonna put in my obligatory plug for Santiago. I think it's a very underrated city that would be ideal for the kind of long-term gig that you're after. It's a very safe, clean city with well-developed infrastructure (awesome metro system in fact), and the location is great with both beaches and mountains (including excellent ski resorts like Portillo) under an hour and a half away. I would live there too and I'd feel very happy about it.

Quality of girls is mid-range for South America--they're not as hot as Argentina/Brazil/Colombia, but definitely better than places like Bolivia, Peru and Ecuador. Although you will find much hotter girls in Buenos Aires than in Santiago, the portenas are certified batshit fucking crazy and nigh-impossible to ONS, while Chilean girls are very fun, sweet, and down-to-earth, not to mention DTF. If you ask me, I'll take medium-quality girls that are fun to be around and are down with fast sex over beauties with intolerable personalities that will never fuck you any day of the week. But yeah, if you're looking to go top-shelf in terms of girls' attractiveness it's true that Santiago can't compete with BA.

The Chilean dudes are awesome too--I still have some great friends I made living in Santiago who have come to visit me in the US. They love to drink and party, they don't usually cockblock, and they actually like gringos because there aren't too many of us there.

The downsides of Santiago are that it's only medium-quality in terms of girls, there's little nightlife going on from Sunday-Tuesday, and it's more expensive than most other South American cities. The Spanish learning curve is also very steep since Chilean Spanish has a ton of slang words and one of the nastiest accents out there. Once you get the hang of it, though, you can absolutely crush it--gringos who are good at Chilean Spanish are very rare and with any game at all you'll find it very easy to get girls interested in you. Overall I'd say the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages, and if you're trying to choose between Santiago and Buenos Aires (the two of those four cities that I've been to), I'd take Santiago in a heartbeat. Here's a data sheet I wrote a few years ago if you want more info.

[speakeasy]

I've been to three of those cities. I guess I'm pretty much in agreement with the others on the major points. I liked both BA and Santiago. I know Santiago gets sidelined most the time on the forum, but for some reason I really liked it. I liked the weather, I liked just walking around the neighborhoods and parks, I felt the buzz of a city that's prospering and up and coming. Maybe not the best place to party or game women, but as a place I could actually live in it seemed very nice. It's the most livable city in Latin America I've been to so far. If I had to choose between BA and Santiago I would have a tough choice. If other factors besides girls and partying are more important, such as livability, climate, economy, safety, natural beauty being near the Andes and nice beaches of Vina del Mar, then Santiago wins. I have a few friends there and long to visit Chile again. I just really like it there. Feels like an unspoiled, cheaper version of California.

As for Montevideo, I like it, though I wasn't there long enough to really absorb it, but it seems nice and overall safe. Pretty much the same people and culture as B.A., but on a smaller scale and more laid back and they have actual beaches which B.A. lacks, if that's important to you. I could definitely live there.

Never been to Panama but everyone I know that has seems to dig it. So as for the three I've been to, you really can't go wrong with any of those choices. All three are nice cities with something to offer, IMO.

edit --

Maybe because of the time of year I was there I didn't experience the worst of Santiago's smog. I hear it's quite terrible in the austral winter. Something to consider as a long term health matter.

[Hencredible Casanova]

I've been to all of these spots. Your best bet is Panama City, especially as an American and as one who does not speak Spanish. It's absolutely the best setup for doing business in Latin America. It's also a world class banking hub and they also use the US dollar. You can live pretty well on the cheap and you'll find Latin Americans from all over the world who live there for business. Great place to make good contacts and friends.

It's not going to have the cultural charm of the other places but working and visiting a place are two different things. You can always visit the other three places, but living there is probably not for the best.

I find South America a huge cultural leap for an American whereas Panama is a psychologically easy place to settle into. It's practically a 51st state in many respects.

[kaka]

Can you explain how you got the opportunity to work and CHOOSE out of these places?

Only reason I'm asking is because I work in the accounting/finance field and would jump at an opportunity to work abroad, provided that it was in a place I am interested in. (South America, very interested in).

[gringochileno]

(02-26-2014 11:18 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Maybe because of the time of year I was there I didn't experience the worst of Santiago's smog. I hear it's quite terrible in the austral winter. Something to consider as a long term health matter.

I've spent a couple winters there. The smog's gotten way better in recent years since they replaced all the buses with low-emission vehicles. I wouldn't worry about it.

[DQA]

Thank you all for the feedback. Lots of information here on Buenos Aires and Santiago, but I cannot say it has made choosing one or the other any easier - although Santiago really seems like a place I should look at more seriously.

I am not American by the way, but European. It's interesting to see most people here have been to South America but have skipped Middle America, I'd really appreciate some more input on Panama City.

[el conquistador]

I’ve been to Buenos Aires and Santiago so I’ll chime in. Your exotic value will be waaaay higher in Santiago. The other posters are right when they say the metro system is very easy to navigate.

From my own personal experience, the people in Santiago were much much friendlier-people helped me with directions on the street and one woman offered to let me use her mobile phone to make a call.

Buenos Aires is more elegant and aesthetically pleasing to the eye but its full of gringos taking tango lessons and the people don’t have much patience with tourists.

[loveblondes]

(02-26-2014 09:36 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

I have been to 3 of them. I'm not 100% sure why but I absolutely love Santiago. Its not that cheap, the women are not that good looking but they are very easy and not stuck up. I'm not sure where the other poster got that Chilean girls were hard but I've never heard that and it isnt what I experienced. I've been twice and I think that I could live in Santiago. You have the beach 1 hour away and the mountains an hour away. Money is flowing and the people are out spending it. I did not enjoy Montevideo a ton and it is hard to play up the gringo card as a lot of people are of European descent , same with BA. Of course BA women are badass.

I think a lot depends on your level of game and Spanish.

the gringo card will only works all over south america (including the whitest parts) if are able to stand out, as very northern european in terms of appearance. But also most argentineans are mix of spanish and italian, so neither the average white american should be looking like the bulk of people in montevideo or BA whom in my experience are considerably darker, looking european descent doesnt mean a thing since italians, greeks,spaniards, portuguese and even quite a few french are considered exotic in most of europe based on their look alone.

[shotgun]

(02-26-2014 09:36 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

I'm not sure where the other poster got that Chilean girls were hard but I've never heard that and it isnt what I experienced.

I stand corrected. I didn't get to run any game there as I just spent a few days in the city before heading to the Atacama desert, two years ago. The reputation I alluded to came from second hand accounts.

[DQA]

I have been given until the 31st of March to decide and although I haven't mentioned it, Sao Paulo is also an option. Since I have a strong desire to gain proficiency in Spanish, Sao Paulo is not my top pick.

Anyway, one of the major drawbacks of living in London is the sheer size of the city combined with the ludicrous rental prices. I lived in quite a few countries, but mostly in cities of approximately 1 million inhabitants where you could easily get across town. Now I know that most of these cities on the South American continent are huge (except for Ciudad de Panama) but that is not necessarily a problem if you can afford living downtown and not in some shitty suburb. My budget for a studio or apartment is going to be $1500 max a month and I really want to live close to the party scene.

So which of these cities have compact city centers? Meaning that nice venues, restaurants are in a rather compact, dense area rather than widely spread over town?

What about Buenos Aires, I've done some reading here on RooshV and the general consent appears to be that BA is the most difficult place of all in terms of gaming women.

[Mekorig]

1500 dollars for a place? If you plan to be at least two years in Buenos Aires, you can rent a nice 2 room apartment either in Palermo (in the middle of the bar/pub zone) or near downtown for less. Short term rents are expensier.

[DQA]

I have narrowed down my choice to Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires. Girls appear easier in SP but I have a better feeling about the city of BA and I'd prefer to learn Spanish over Portuguese. I am not sure about Montevideo.

[Road_Less_Taken]

DQA what industry are you working in?

[DQA]

(03-01-2014 01:11 PM)Road_Less_Taken Wrote:  

DQA what industry are you working in?

Civil engineering

[shotgun]

(03-01-2014 12:59 PM)DQA Wrote:  

I have narrowed down my choice to Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires. Girls appear easier in SP but I have a better feeling about the city of BA and I'd prefer to learn Spanish over Portuguese. I am not sure about Montevideo.

SP is way more expensive than Buenos Aires. Even though USD 1500 a month (roughly BRL 3500) will be enough to get you a decently located spot in SP, bear in mind that other costs will also be higher. Plus, even staying in a prime spot, SP is massively spread out and you will most likely need a car to get around (or pay expensive cab fares), since public transportation is still deficient.

BA also has the advantage of being more "European" than SP. You'll probably adapt faster. In terms of Europe, I would compare BA to Madrid, and SP to Moscow.

If you choose SP, it should either be because of the women (easier and more ethnic variety) or the political/economical stability.

[champ]

(03-01-2014 12:59 PM)DQA Wrote:  

I have narrowed down my choice to Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires. Girls appear easier in SP but I have a better feeling about the city of BA and I'd prefer to learn Spanish over Portuguese. I am not sure about Montevideo.

A few questions:

Where in BA/SP would your office be?

Is the salary the same in either location?

Below are some generalities, but the answer to the above can sway you one way or another.

It's true BA has hotter women, and SP women are easier. I would put much weight on this this. In either city with a social circle, language skills, and a bit of game you should do alright.

For your field SP is going to offer much more career opportunities and growth. Argentina is a complete cluster fuck, and SP is the business capital of South America, and Brazil is building a lot of everything right now.

BA is a much more pleasant city to live in. SP is a complete cluster fuck, however if your job and apartment are in a nice neighborhood SP is not a bad place to live.

On the others I've only been to Panama (for a short business trip). Did like it at all. To me it felt a bit like Dubai: shiny buildings, tons of foreigners, even more whores, and a lack of cultural identity.

[speakeasy]

I would choose B.A. personally.

SP is one of the ugliest cities I've ever seen. If there is a textbook definition of a concrete jungle, it would be SP. I know there are good things about it once you get into the local scene, but being in a place that's depressingly bereft of anything pleasing to look at would grate on me. In BA, you have a more classical, European feel. Part Madrid, part Paris, part Rome. You get NONE of that charm in SP. It's just cinder block ugliness from horizon to horizon.

Google street view now has coverage in SP, you can pretty much get a feel for how things look at the ground level using your browser.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(03-01-2014 03:38 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I would choose B.A. personally.

SP is one of the ugliest cities I've ever seen. If there is a textbook definition of a concrete jungle, it would be SP.

Man, that's exactly how I feel about SP in terms of how it looks. I actually went there after spending a month in Argentina and then some time in Florianopolis. I couldn't get over how ugly it was. I couldn't understand what all the hype was about. Whereas SP was an eyesore, BA was so much more elegant and refined.

But...if I had to choose a spot to "live" between the two, it would be SP.

First of all, Brazilians are just flat out cooler than Argentinians any day of the week.

SP is ugly in many parts but the people are cool. You can make real friends there and there's a lot of cool bars and clubs all throughout the city.

The girls are definitely easier than Argentine ones, and I think that counts for a lot when you're talking about a place to live.

And for work, SP is an economic player on a level that BA simply isn't. You'll make good contacts and I'm sure the professional expat scene is solid.

[azulsombra]

I've been to all four cities.

Assuming your a white gringo I would go with Panama City.
As Hencredible said its the easiest transition and the most US-like, prices are in dollars, gringos have more appeal, its location is great and will get your feet wet before venturing to "real" south america.

For a brotha though I would strongly recommend Buenos Aires first with Santiago coming in second.

[polymath]

Buenos Aires sucks unless you're a douchebag and/or willing to tolerate frequent encounters with them. The general attitude of many people in that city is arrogant and self-serving.

I would take Montevideo every time. Santiago could be cool too.

[DQA]

(03-01-2014 01:45 PM)champ Wrote:  

A few questions:

Where in BA/SP would your office be?

Is the salary the same in either location?

Yes the salary is the same but accommodation cost and food will be provided for. I just checked google maps and the office in SP is in Guarulhos whereas the office in BA is downtown.

[/quote]

(03-01-2014 03:51 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

SP is ugly in many parts but the people are cool. You can make real friends there and there's a lot of cool bars and clubs all throughout the city.

The girls are definitely easier than Argentine ones, and I think that counts for a lot when you're talking about a place to live.

And for work, SP is an economic player on a level that BA simply isn't. You'll make good contacts and I'm sure the professional expat scene is solid.

These are some solid arguments for choosing SP over BA, but I agree with Casanova that BA is in terms of architecture a much more attractive place to live. However, in the end the people make a city - beautiful and easier girls and open-minded people is what I'm after.

[champ]

(03-01-2014 04:37 PM)DQA Wrote:  

(03-01-2014 01:45 PM)champ Wrote:  

A few questions:

Where in BA/SP would your office be?

Is the salary the same in either location?

Yes the salary is the same but accommodation cost and food will be provided for. I just checked google maps and the office in SP is in Guarulhos whereas the office in BA is downtown.

That settles it. Guarulhos is 1+ hours away (which could be 3+ depending on time of day) from where you'll want to live and work.

It's an ugly, characterless, cultureless, dirty, and dangerous place. The only saving grace is you're close to the airport so you can get out of town as frequently as possible.