[paninaro]

(02-25-2014 11:47 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

You are correct, but you've missed the point. Look at Russia for example, where the tax rate is between 6% and 13% depending on what kind of income you have. US citizens have a debt to the IRS if their salary is over $98k or if they have any non-salary income. Here's the kicker: Citizens of other countries owe nothing to their passport country's tax department, ever. They don't even have to file because their tax departments only have jurisdiction over resident citizens, not those who live abroad.

Yes, but citizenship isn't something you can change like a t-shirt. So if a person is an American living in the US and looking to move to Russia, their tax burden will not go up (though it may not go down either, due to the US taxing that income also). That same person is unlikely to consider renouncing citizenship, then moving abroad, all in one swoop.

In other words, when a person is making a decision for themselves, they are really taking into consideration just their own current options, since an American may not be able to switch to being a UK citizen on a whim. So the decision for an American to move abroad may not be driven much by taxation, in that they aren't likely to be paying more taxes than before due to how the US taxes worldwide income.

[nomadicdude]

To be fair, almost all Americans who have renounced citizenship are just filthy rich fuckturds making tons of money off dividends and cap gains while living in foreign countries. They are so greedy they want to save what is not even that much money to them. I say screw these ppl.

[lurker]

(02-25-2014 02:19 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

^ dude we are directly paying for their tax deductions just like I am directly paying more into the tax system because I have high earnings.

50% of people don't even pay any taxes. So I don't see where you're going.

If you're pissed you are paying for someone else's meals and families... Join the club.

But effective taxes are better as a single filer (couple - assuming both work) if you have half a brain when it comes April 15th.

Everybody pays taxes. 50% of Americans have no federal income tax liability.

[nomadicdude]

The 50% of Americans having no federal income tax liability still pay sales taxes and FICA tax. That is just a Republic boogie man that ignors all the other taxes by only looking at income tax. Most poors in America end up paying a higher share of their annual income in taxes than the rich. Just do the math: if you are making 20k you still pay about 7.5% in FICA tax. You likely spend all of your post-tax income and almost all of that gets taxes by the state at 8% or whatever the rate is. So you are paying around 15%, which is a lot higher than a lot of these fuckturd riches like Romney pay cause of the special treatment we give dividend and cap gains.

[WestCoast]

^

Yeah all those rich "fuckturds"

Why don't you make the next google then?
Why not create one of the most successful and largest private equity firms of all time?

Easy to talk shit on the accomplishments of others.

Capital gains tax? You realize that "tax" is on money that was made

If I make $100K and I get taxed 30%...

I now have 70K...

If I invest it intelligently and get $10k....

Well that $10K is now taxed again at 35%.

Basically the last few posters, if you think like this you will always always always be poor.

Not being a dick. Calling out the extremely obvious poverty mindset.

"Zero sum" scarcity mindset.

This mindset is toxic if anyone reading this has friends who believe this mindset. Delete them from your phone and move on.

[nomadicdude]

(03-05-2014 12:32 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

^

Yeah all those rich "fuckturds"

Why don't you make the next google then?
Why not create one of the most successful and largest private equity firms of all time?

Easy to talk shit on the accomplishments of others.

Capital gains tax? You realize that "tax" is on money that was made

If I make $100K and I get taxed 30%...

I now have 70K...

If I invest it intelligently and get $10k....

Well that $10K is now taxed again at 35%.

Basically the last few posters, if you think like this you will always always always be poor.

Not being a dick. Calling out the extremely obvious poverty mindset.

"Zero sum" scarcity mindset.

This mindset is toxic if anyone reading this has friends who believe this mindset. Delete them from your phone and move on.

Nice conservative spin, but there has to be limits. All civilizations need taxes. America has spun out of control in part because it has become too deferential to the rich. And it is sad that middle class and poor people often buy into this gimmick that you simply must let the rich and powerful run rampant with little regulations or taxes otherwise it will be detrimental to society. It is insane. I've had years when I've made a lot of money and honestly it is better for society that higher income people get taxed more.

[RIslander]

I just googled "tax rates around the world", in France of all places, and this thread was on the first page.

RVF is truly becoming a public resource.

[The Beast1]

I wish there was a datasheet on here about making an LLC to shield your tax liability. I need to hire a lawyer to figure this out.

[roberto]

(04-16-2016 12:23 AM)RIslander Wrote:  

I just googled "tax rates around the world", in France of all places, and this thread was on the first page.

RVF is truly becoming a public resource.

Be aware that this is almost certainly because Google tracks your browsing habits.

[Rawmeo]

This is tough on Americans, especially with the FATCA law that mandates most financial institutions to rat you out to the IRS for placing money abroad. Even Thai banks ask those silly questions. I am blessed to not be American. Along with surveillance, phone tapping, bank account auditing, abroad bank snitching, you are all set to become a totalitarian police state.

Though anyone with ~300k to spend can get an Antigua & Barbuda citizenship (my application is currently pending). With offshore companies and a properly made setup (this implies forking a few thousands bucks to a professional), you can do business with zero tax. For Americans, that's a good way to give up on their passport; for others, it's a good way to have a second passport. Let's put two hypothetical scenarios:

1) I work in a hotel in Thailand; I have to declare revenue to the Thai government, and pay tax.
-or-
2) The hotel employs "XYZ Management" (or whatever my offshore company is named) as "management services", and I work with zero tax, since my offshore company will pay tax in the incorporation juridiction, which is usually 0% for income acquired outside the said country. And I am not an employee of the hotel from a tax point of view.

The more you hate on rich people, the poorer you will be. I wouldn't care paying A BIT of tax if my taxes were PROPERLY spent. Financing refugees, welfare, and support for single motherhood is not something that I want to be involved in.

I have been in business for 8 years. I can tell you that tax is a punishment. It's money that could easily be invested in something that brings you something in return.

I know how to play fair game: yes, I use offshore companies to hide my shit, but:
- When I am sick, I go to a private hospital, and I pay for it.
- When I will have a child, I will not accept government help; I will support him myself with my wife.
- I pay for my driver's license, my passports, toll roads, etc.
- In short, I pay out of pocket for the "benefits" that I would normally get from public funds.

Even for someone who is a simple employee and has no control on his company's corporate structure and all that stuff, if they make a high income, let's say 200k and above, there will be an additional tax paid, but this raises 3 questions:

1) If you make 200k per year, you surely have the means to hire a professional planner to help you dodge tax instead of sacrifying 50% of your income;
-or-
2) Why don't more people use Bitcoin? That's the best way to hide your stash, and prevent "freezes" if a tax authority decides that it wants its cut.
-or-
3) Why do you continue working in a place that takes 50% of your salary?

Just my advice on the matter.

[DaveR]

(04-16-2016 01:05 PM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

2) The hotel employs "XYZ Management" (or whatever my offshore company is named) as "management services", and I work with zero tax, since my offshore company will pay tax in the incorporation juridiction, which is usually 0% for income acquired outside the said country. And I am not an employee of the hotel from a tax point of view.

But you and your company are probably breaking a few labour regulations in Thailand if you do that...

[Rawmeo]

(04-16-2016 01:20 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(04-16-2016 01:05 PM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

2) The hotel employs "XYZ Management" (or whatever my offshore company is named) as "management services", and I work with zero tax, since my offshore company will pay tax in the incorporation juridiction, which is usually 0% for income acquired outside the said country. And I am not an employee of the hotel from a tax point of view.

But you and your company are probably breaking a few labour regulations in Thailand if you do that...

In Thailand, this is not allowed without the correct work permit; just an hypothetical situation, but in most countries, it is permitted.

[DaveR]

(04-16-2016 01:42 PM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

(04-16-2016 01:20 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(04-16-2016 01:05 PM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

2) The hotel employs "XYZ Management" (or whatever my offshore company is named) as "management services", and I work with zero tax, since my offshore company will pay tax in the incorporation juridiction, which is usually 0% for income acquired outside the said country. And I am not an employee of the hotel from a tax point of view.

But you and your company are probably breaking a few labour regulations in Thailand if you do that...

In Thailand, this is not allowed without the correct work permit; just an hypothetical situation, but in most countries, it is permitted.

Even in countries which don't have work permit systems, you'll probably find that there are plenty of rules being broken - avoidance of VAT, failure to report income of a business operating in the country, employment contracts not meeting local requirements for insurance, pension contributions, etc.

There are situations where it is possible to work through an offshore entity, for example selling software, art, writing, and other kinds of transferrable rights, but labour itself is rarely ever transferrable.