[zatara]

(02-16-2014 05:44 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

(02-16-2014 01:19 PM)zatara Wrote:  

One of them just bought an apartment, at 27. He had £75k saved but instead of quitting his job and traveling the world for 6 months or a year he bought a place. And now hes trapped in the one suburb, of one city, for the next 30 years.

I also bought an apartment in the UK at the age of 27. I now rent it out.

The rent both pays for my mortgage and me travelling the world + expenses (food, drink).

OK, I can't any lifestyle off the back of it that even approaches extravagant but I don't want to anyway. I don't need luxury.

Because I don't need luxury, that's why I have freedom.

Buying that flat at 27 is the best decision I even made but as a result I was able to quit the rat race at the age of 35 and I am never going back to it.

The difference between your mortgage and the rent received (minus expenses like maintenance, association fees, tax etc) is enough to live off? Like over £1500 a month in difference? If so, you did extremely well in timing your purchase - not many recently purchased properties will come anywhere close to that return.

My anecdotal friend is saving about £200 a month by having a mortgage as opposed to renting. But that's with him living in it, and doesn't include any maintenance or fees - or any empty vacancy periods if he was renting it out. Nowhere near enough of a saving to throw away his late 20's in my opinion. The money used as a deposit would be far better spent in Vegas, in Rio de Janeiro, in Cape Town, in a hell of a lot more places...

[911]

Real estate is a superior investment today because of interest rates being at historic lows.

(02-16-2014 08:16 PM)T and A Man Wrote:  

Could the estimated rental value cover the mortgage?

It will, eventually, and usually well before the end of the mortgage. You are locking in those rates, while rents rise, at rates faster than inflation in many markets like SF, NYC, Paris, London etc. Renting in the long term doesn't make sense.

(02-16-2014 02:00 PM)buja Wrote:  

This is how the corporate/government school power structure "educates" us to stay on the plantation.

I don't know why anyone would get a 30 year mortgage on non-income producing property.

Most people don't realize that $100,000 borrowed for 30 years at 8% interest is really 160% interest when compounded.

Actually, it's the opposite. Banksters want to drain your savings, keep you a debt slave and a consumer slave. Buying property and investing early is your ticket to freedom. That 27yo Londoner did very well to buy property and focus on his career. He will build up his skillset and experience, which will allow to take a few months off between jobs every few years while still being on the right track.

He is not stuck in his suburb, he will be able to rent it out and cover his mortgage next decade, and by his 40s or 50s, he will have owned the property outright.

And it's more like 3% than 8% now, huuuge difference, because the real inflation rate (which is underreported) is at least as high, so you are effectively acquiring a safely leveraged asset almost interest-free, while also hedging for any future rises in interest rates and inflation.

[doc holliday]

(09-20-2017 12:14 PM)911 Wrote:  

Real estate is a superior investment today because of interest rates being at historic lows.

(02-16-2014 08:16 PM)T and A Man Wrote:  

Could the estimated rental value cover the mortgage?

It will, eventually, and usually well before the end of the mortgage. You are locking in those rates, while rents rise, at rates faster than inflation in many markets like SF, NYC, Paris, London etc. Renting in the long term doesn't make sense.

(02-16-2014 02:00 PM)buja Wrote:  

This is how the corporate/government school power structure "educates" us to stay on the plantation.

I don't know why anyone would get a 30 year mortgage on non-income producing property.

Most people don't realize that $100,000 borrowed for 30 years at 8% interest is really 160% interest when compounded.

Actually, it's the opposite. Banksters want to drain your savings, keep you a debt slave and a consumer slave. Buying property and investing early is your ticket to freedom. That 27yo Londoner did very well to buy property and focus on his career. He will build up his skillset and experience, which will allow to take a few months off between jobs every few years while still being on the right track.

He is not stuck in his suburb, he will be able to rent it out and cover his mortgage next decade, and by his 40s or 50s, he will have owned the property outright.

And it's more like 3% than 8% now, huuuge difference, because the real inflation rate (which is underreported) is at least as high, so you are effectively acquiring a safely leveraged asset almost interest-free, while also hedging for any future rises in interest rates and inflation.

Thing is though 911, the 27 year old got a little lucky and bought in a rising market. Also, by his own admission, he makes some money on it but is living a simpler lifestyle since he's not making a ton of money on it. He's happy and has freedom so ultimately that's the only thing that matters thus I'm only making this point from a purely financial perspective. The other thing too is that unless he has a fixed rate mortgage for his entire term, future interest rate increases will eat into his income. Along with taxes and costs of maintenance and insurance, he could easily see his profit dwindle significantly.

I will say though that the idea of buying a condo in the center of a big city and then deciding to rent it out when and if your life circumstances change is still better than what I did by buying, no, building, a big house in the suburbs. Talk about a money pit. I did some calculations and I figured that if I had rented a house for that same 7 years that I owned that house that I would have come out ahead by about 200K. This is after factoring in mortgage, property taxes, insurance, maintenance (I could not believe how much goddamn money I spent on maintenance and repairs for a new construction) and the pathetic amount of money I netted for the house after I sold it during my divorce.

I'm convinced now that the only way to own property is if it generates income. Multi units are the best since you can live in one and rent the others out. Then one day, if you decide to move to Chiang Mai to work on your PUA blog, you can rent your unit out, have a property manager take care of it and have some quasi passive income. These days with the rise of crowdfunding real estate investment sites like Fundrise and Realtyshares, you can invest in real estate and get 8-12% income generation without the hassle of physically owning property and this where I've started to put some of my money. Of course I've also started buying bitcoins now as well which should make these other investments irrelevant, right?

[Tail Gunner]

(09-20-2017 12:14 PM)911 Wrote:  

Real estate is a superior investment today because of interest rates being at historic lows.

It depends on where you buy it. In social welfare nations, where interest rates are artificially suppressed by the government, investors have fled to the real estate and equity markets -- thereby inflating the "value" of these assets beyond reason and far beyond historical norms. As a result of this demand (as investors who would otherwise safely place their money in CDs flock to rental properties and stocks), the yields on rentals are quite low.

On the other hand, in frontier and emerging market nations (where the free market dictates interest rates) rental yields are also based on the free market, instead of government manipulation. As a result and as a general rule, rental yields are far higher than in social welfare countries, including the U.S.

It is an irony that "capitalistic" western nations now manipulate almost every facet of their economies while third-world and former second-world nations now flourish in a more capitalistic environment. This manipulation will not end well -- and many innocent people will suffer.

[Australia Sucks]

Tail Gunner can you actually name some frontier and emerging markets that you consider to be "free markets"?

[Tail Gunner]

(09-24-2017 01:41 AM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  

Tail Gunner can you actually name some frontier and emerging markets that you consider to be "free markets"?

First, let me emphasize that I use the phrase "free markets" in its broader sense, rather then in its explicit or literal meaning. Taken in it literal meaning it could be argued that there is no truly free market on the planet -- and any free market nation (especially a frontier or emerging market) will have many problems. But they will not have the rampant over-regulation, over-taxation, and creeping socialism of the western social welfare states. In fact, they will actively take steps to mitigate these problems and to lure investors to their shores. And that was my main point.

Then there is also the issue of the definition of "frontier markets" and "emerging markets," because different analysts have different lists. For example, Chile is a highly developed nation yet is on most lists (but not all) as an emerging market economy.

Having said that and using South America as an example, Paraguay, Colombia, and Chile are countries that I would consider mostly free market and in which I would feel comfortable investing, including buying and renting out real estate. It is important to emphasize, however, that each of these nations has real tangible problems that an investor would need to consider before investing there. That is true of every country, including the social welfare state nations.

Every day is an opportunity to apply your skills and experience, deliver needed value to the marketplace, save up your earnings, and invest in the capital markets to grow your wealth and to provide you with freedom and life options. Take advantage of it. Or suckle at the nipple of socialism, engage in groupthink, and surrender to the fear of failure. It is your choice. That is why your friends refuse to give up their miserable lifestyles.

[Australia Sucks]

I spent 6 weeks in Colombia and I can assure you there is plenty of nanny state regulation there.

Many hostels insist on seeing your passport and asking 20 questions and when I asked about it they said it was due to government regulations (presumably the ones that do not do this are not following proper regulations). The airport in Colombia I got asked more questions and given a harder time than the airport in U.S.A.!! When you fly from Bogota to San Andreas they won't even let you leave the airport unless you have accommodation booked!! Many national parks, etc have higher entrance prices for foreigners than for Colombians. I could go on and on about the retarded bureaucracy in Colombia. On the surface things sound good superficially with their easy visas for foreigners and lack of restrictions on foreigners owning property, etc. But when you try to get shit done on the ground its a bureaucratic cluster-fuck.

Colombia is hardly a country that I would consider "mostly free market". If Colombia was really a free market leaning country then why is the country so poor? When countries lean towards free market policies they tend to become much wealthier.

[Tail Gunner]

(09-25-2017 08:20 AM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  

I spent 6 weeks in Colombia and I can assure you there is plenty of nanny state regulation there.

Many hostels insist on seeing your passport and asking 20 questions and when I asked about it they said it was due to government regulations (presumably the ones that do not do this are not following proper regulations). The airport in Colombia I got asked more questions and given a harder time than the airport in U.S.A.!! When you fly from Bogota to San Andreas they won't even let you leave the airport unless you have accommodation booked!! Many national parks, etc have higher entrance prices for foreigners than for Colombians. I could go on and on about the retarded bureaucracy in Colombia. On the surface things sound good superficially with their easy visas for foreigners and lack of restrictions on foreigners owning property, etc. But when you try to get shit done on the ground its a bureaucratic cluster-fuck.

Colombia is hardly a country that I would consider "mostly free market". If Colombia was really a free market leaning country then why is the country so poor? When countries lean towards free market policies they tend to become much wealthier.

You are talking apples versus oranges. I am discussing investing and you are discussing living or visiting there. Colombia has turned its back on its violent past and the rampant socialism that has infested most of the continent, has developed an emerging free market economy, eliminated many barriers to investing, and -- most importantly -- is trending in the right direction while most of the rest of the world trends in the other direction. Trending in the right direction is a big part of what makes an emerging market worthy for investing. Its economy is on the ascendancy. There is money to be made in Colombia for people who can identify potential. (BTW: Now that Argentina has adopted free market reforms, if it can also develop a proven track record it will have similar status.)

Quote:

Colombia was really a free market leaning country then why is the country so poor? When countries lean towards free market policies they tend to become much wealthier.

Well, because Colombia is an emerging market. Emerging markets are filled with poor people struggling to reach the middle class. That is exactly part of what makes countries emerging markets. Developing a free market is what allows the citizens of emerging market nations to prosper.

[Tail Gunner]

Perfect example of a country that you want to avoid if you want to invest some of your hard-earned money. As a child of Mother Earth, I can attest to this man's lack of sanity.

Quote:

Introduce Universal Citizenship: Bolivian President Evo Morales
By Vinod -
September 20, 2017

Bolivian President Evo Morales believes that the problem of illegal immigration should be solved by introducing a single or “universal” citizenship for all the inhabitants of the Earth. He made a corresponding statement on Tuesday, speaking in the framework of general political discussion at the UN General Assembly.

“Bolivia condemns the construction of the walls and the development of laws aimed at making migration a crime by proposing the creation of universal citizenship.The origins of the current social and migration crisis – in the world order, which, for the sake of profit and consumption, provoke violence, and destroys the mother earth.You can not hold the migrant responsible for the economic crisis or instability, “Morales said.

According to him, one should not allow migrants to be treated as criminals. “No migrant is illegal, some governments are not trying to get rid of the structural causes of this phenomenon – wars, the consequences of climate change or economic asymmetry between states, but only announce new restrictions in their migration policies, mass deportations and construction of walls,” added President of Bolivia.

“Let me again urge you to conclude a universal pact that would become a bridge to such a coveted universal citizenship, so there are no categories, there is no difference between citizens of any country and foreigners.” We are all people and children of Mother Earth, – considers Morales.

https://eurasiantimes.com/bolivian-presi...o-morales/

[Australia Sucks]

Yes I was giving examples of living there rather than investing there but its difficult to imagine that country would have so much inefficient regulations effecting day to day living but be easy going and laissez-fare when it comes to investment. Perhaps some forum members who have done business in Colombia can comment. I would imagine it to be a nightmare.

Tail Gunner South American people having a history of slipping back into socialism and just because the trend in countries like Argentina or Colombia is in the right direction, history shows that you can have very unexpected and sharp trend reversals back into socialism in these types of countries. Also remember that the trend is starting from a very low base and that these countries are a messy bureaucratic cluster-fuck. Its part of the South American culture is to live in the moment, be lazy and want free handouts. I am not sure the culture in such countries is compatible long-term with a freer market economy. As soon as a little bit of wealth begins to accumulate and the economy picks up everyone will be voting for massive government handouts.

[Tail Gunner]

(09-26-2017 04:22 PM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  

Its part of the South American culture is to live in the moment, be lazy and want free handouts.

That is exactly what gives foreigners a huge leg up. In Paraguay, a foreigner blew into town and saw the tremendous need for sand and gravel for the immense expansion of construction occurring in the capital city (Asuncion). He bought a small parcel beside the Paraguay River, bought a barge and a dredge, and began to dredge the river. Free sand and gravel! The government loved it because it is a navigable river that already required dredging. The guy clears $5,000 a day -- in cash! Why did the locals not think of it? Who knows. There are countless opportunities like this one in emerging market nations.

BTW: Asuncion is a great place for path-of-development residential construction. The capital is bordered by the Paraguay River on two sides (north and west), so it is quite obvious that the path-of-development will occur on the other two sides.

I am not trying to convince you to do anything. If you do not feel comfortable investing in emerging market nations, then do not do it. Join the other 99% of the population that leave all that cash and opportunity on the table.

[Tail Gunner]

(09-26-2017 04:22 PM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  

Yes I was giving examples of living there rather than investing there but its difficult to imagine that country would have so much inefficient regulations effecting day to day living but be easy going and laissez-fare when it comes to investment. Perhaps some forum members who have done business in Colombia can comment. I would imagine it to be a nightmare.

You are still thinking like a wage-slave, instead of an investor. The people who offer the investments take care of this stuff for you. So, more the most part, it is irrelevant. If you are more hands on -- and you buy an apartment unit, for example -- your local property manager takes care of these things.

Have you never stayed at an AirBNB unit? My last stay in Latin America, the unit was owned by a Canadian. Everything was managed for him by a local using cheap local labor. When I was there, the owner was off partying in another Latin American country. This is not rocket science.

[Australia Sucks]

Tailgunner I am a landlord in Australia and I have plenty of headaches as it is (and have to keep an eye on my property managers). The headache would be multiplied if I was investing offshore.

A lot of stuff you say sounds good in theory but in practice its a lot harder to do. I promise you that owner of the airbnb apartment deals with many headaches a year that you do not know about.

I really think you don't know what you are talking about. Yes, there is opportunity to make big dollars in emerging markets with simple ideas (low hanging fruit). But is it easy and headache free? Fuck no! So stop trying to pretend that its as easy pie. Its doable but its a pain in the ass and most people understandably don't want to deal with it.

There was a guy (his online name is expat Bob) who lived in different South American countries for a while each. He spent some time living in Santiago, Chile (close to the CBD of Santiago). Eventually he ran into some problems with the internet in his apartment and no matter what he did nobody fixed it for him. In the end it was the straw that broke the camels back and he left Chile in frustration. Now imagine that was the most advanced country in Latin America so you have to wonder what the other countries are like. Imagine if he was running a business from his laptop (he may have been)?

[ProGambler]

I'm fairly sure private rentals are illegal for gringos in Colombia so LOL at naming that a place you would invest in real estate to rent out. Argentina is the most investable place in SA imo. Destroyed economy with hard learned lessons of socialism and a national IQ in the high 90s with plenty of space and mineral wealth make it a good bet imo.

[scotian]

I know gringos who own condos in Colombia that they let out via Airbnb and others who do the same but rent, the one guy I know in Cali rents a two bedroom for $400/month and rents it out for $1100 to foreigners.

[Tail Gunner]

(09-29-2017 06:18 AM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  

I really think you don't know what you are talking about. Yes, there is opportunity to make big dollars in emerging markets with simple ideas (low hanging fruit). But is it easy and headache free? Fuck no! So stop trying to pretend that its as easy pie. Its doable but its a pain in the ass and most people understandably don't want to deal with it.

Like I said before:

Quote:

I am not trying to convince you to do anything. If you do not feel comfortable investing in emerging market nations, then do not do it. Join the other 99% of the population that leave all that cash and opportunity on the table.

I have investments on multiple continents. I carefully vet all my investments and do not enter an offshore investment unless it has the potential for a 15%+ yield. I may examine 50-100 investments before I pull the trigger on one that meets all my requirements. It is not easy, but I never said that it was easy. But it can also be done using a systematic approach that is transferable to numerous countries.

On the other hand, most people will refuse to even do basic research regarding such investments, because they possess your negative defeatist attitude instilled by societal conformity. The financially ignorant always transfer their wealth to the financially educated.

[Tail Gunner]

(09-29-2017 06:53 AM)ProGambler Wrote:  

I'm fairly sure private rentals are illegal for gringos in Colombia so LOL at naming that a place you would invest in real estate to rent out.

Google is your friend. In this age of boundless information, I am not sure why forum members take the time and effort to post random inaccurate information. See Scotian's post (Post #40) to see just how wrong you are.

Besides, even if you were correct, capital appreciation is another reason to invest. Many investors buy property primarily to benefit from path-of-development capital appreciation. An investor needs to know the market and act accordingly.

[GreenHills]

(02-16-2014 01:19 PM)zatara Wrote:  

He could easily have quit his job, traveled the world for a year, and then come back and gotten straight back to work for the next 40 years (he's both qualified and experienced so would have gotten another job no problem). But instead he felt the need to put a voluntary 30 year mortgage chain around his neck and will now probably never do any extended traveling. He hasn't even left Europe once in the past 10 years (!).

If only needs and wants could be satisfied by getting your one fix and being done. Every time I come back from a trip, I want to get out again even more.

I know people who have barely left their country, barely done any explorations, barely chased random girls. Some of them look pretty content to me, married with kids. They're not even asking for more.

Once you see what's available, that's when you start to ask for more. Before that, you don't even know.

[ProGambler]

My good friend lived in Bogota for a year and became friends with a real estate agent's son a few years ago so was happy to trust that blind.

Just because people are getting away with stuff, does not mean they are within the bounds of the law.

Some quick research reveals non-residents are subject to a 33% flat tax on rentals so implies it is at least possible, though I wouldn't be confident of capital appreciation and tenancy rights seem horrendous for landlords. I'd prefer to stick with ripping off gringos through sub-letting than take a big risk personally.

[Tail Gunner]

(09-29-2017 11:58 AM)ProGambler Wrote:  

Just because people are getting away with stuff, does not mean they are within the bounds of the law.

WTF. It is not illegal to own (or rent) rental properties in Colombia.

Quote:

If what you want is a high income producing investment then you should be looking at a very short list of high-quality, very well located buildings with modern amenities that ideally allow for (legal) short-term rentals, probably in Poblado and potentially Laureles where you’ll find 90 percent of the demand from business and leisure travelers.

https://medellinliving.com/real-estate-f...ers-guide/

Quote:

though I wouldn't be confident of capital appreciation

Nothing is guaranteed, but this is as close as you will get to a sure thing:

Quote:

For the past ten years Colombia has had an unbroken trend of house price rises, which continued in early 2016. House and apartment prices rose by 15.08% (6.88% inflation-adjusted) during the year to Q1 2016, according to the Banco de la Republica Colombia (Banrep) index, which covers second-hand houses and apartments. During the latest quarter (Q1 2016), the index rose 6.07% (2.85% inflation-adjusted) from the previous quarter.

Quote:

and tenancy rights seem horrendous for landlords.

Which is exactly why you rent only to foreigners and have a local management company mange the property for you. How many times must I say it?


Too many people in this forum want to argue about things about which they are completely ignorant, rather than seek and absorb information. I am out of here. I am unsubscribing from this thread and you can all baste in your blind ignorance.

[ProGambler]

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/south-ame...ntals.html

Oh look, appears my friend with insider knowledge was indeed correct.

Now add in that rental yields are capped by law at 12%, less tax, you are looking rather silly.

P.S a trend of appreciation is not "close to a sure thing". Ask 2007 Dublin prime buyers.

[Tail Gunner]

(09-29-2017 12:37 PM)ProGambler Wrote:  

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/south-ame...ntals.html

Oh look, appears my friend with insider knowledge was indeed correct.

Now add in that rental yields are capped by law at 12%, less tax, you are looking rather silly.

Let me get this straight. You make the fanciful claim (in Post #39) that "private rentals are illegal for gringos in Colombia," I prove you wrong, and then you cite a few rental restrictions from Medellin (one of over 1000 cities in Colombia) -- and you believe that I look silly?

[Australia Sucks]

Tail Gunner, the way I see it is that non-developed markets are good for investing in for those who already millionaires. If you are not already a millionaire the (of course with some exceptions) the headache isn't worth the amount of money you will make (just my opinion).

[brianmark]

(09-29-2017 11:04 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

I have investments on multiple continents. I carefully vet all my investments and do not enter an offshore investment unless it has the potential for a 15%+ yield. I may examine 50-100 investments before I pull the trigger on one that meets all my requirements. It is not easy, but I never said that it was easy. But it can also be done using a systematic approach that is transferable to numerous countries.

Tail Gunner, so what kind of investments do you have in Emerging Market counties?

[Tail Gunner]

(09-29-2017 08:16 PM)brianmark Wrote:  

(09-29-2017 11:04 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

I have investments on multiple continents. I carefully vet all my investments and do not enter an offshore investment unless it has the potential for a 15%+ yield. I may examine 50-100 investments before I pull the trigger on one that meets all my requirements. It is not easy, but I never said that it was easy. But it can also be done using a systematic approach that is transferable to numerous countries.

Tail Gunner, so what kind of investments do you have in Emerging Market counties?

Passive agricultural investments that will pay a 30%+ yield upon maturation of the crop. Passive apartment investments that will pay a 20%+ yield. These were investments that I selected after discarding over 100 other investment opportunities.

Just to provide an example, an email account that I established just to review investment opportunities, economics, and investment knowledge recently exceeded 100,000 emails. I probably read 5% percent of those emails over many years, which still means that I read 5,000 emails. That is hard, but doable, work (every day) that truly pays dividends over time -- in both knowledge and investment yield.

I wrote about this topic four years ago and put it into practice. Looking back upon it, it really seems a dream. You can do it, too. It truly works.

thread-32431...=expertise

https://www.freemansperspective.com/earl...%E2%80%8Be


Pay close attention to the question that Beyond Border posed nearly four years ago:

Quote:

what'd you decide to develop expertise in?

I answered:

Quote:

Offshore living (which is how I found this forum), economics, and business.

Today, I reap the dividends of that decision to invest in a bit of knowledge on a daily basis.