[Checkmat]

Mods-I'll understand if you want to move this to the newbie section.

I'm definitely a novice in terms of game, but this past year I have learned a lot and expanded my comfort zone, grown a bunch. I keep running into the same new "problem" though, with every girl I swoop.

Pre-red pill, I was banging an average of one girl per year (and usually would lead to at least a mini-relationship if not LTR). Since discovering the forum and cold approaching/OKC'ing I banged 4 girls in about 11 months.

The problem I keep having though, is A) getting girls to see me again, and thus create a harem/spin plates consistently, and B) the girl gets "buyer's remorse" or "feels weird" having slept with me so quickly.

I'll quickly explain the 4 bangs in question. They are in order, a 6, 8, 6 and 7.

The 6 I met at the mall doing cold approach. She contacted me first and was very enthusiastic. First date I was VERY rusty and tried to bounce from bar to my place, she wasn't biting. Ended up spending like 2 hours in my car listening to music, talking and making out a little. Invited her over to watch movie for 2nd date, after a lot of LMR she eventually capitulates and I capture the bang. Every instance of sex after this with her is grueling to get. She seems to constantly want to do a-sexual things, and is unconvinced I truly like her. She even texted me one time, "Do you really like me?" 95% of convos/dates were initiated by her. Eventually she had a pregnancy scare complication and I dropped her shortly after.

Next was the 8 met off OKC. This was the fastest meet-to-bang I've had thus far, about 4 hours. Drinks at bar, bounce back to my place for another drink, start make out and zero resistance from her. Banged her again before driving her back to her place. I text her a couple of days later looking to meet up again and she is evasive and never gets back in touch.

After this, a 6 from OKC. Similar date structure: bar drinks, bounce to another bar, make out, LMR in car but enthustiastic to see again. Second date drinks at local sushi place, walk back to my place and drinks/movie/make out/some token LMR but secure the bang pretty easily. I "kick" her out shortly after saying I have to go to bed. She texts me the next day saying she "felt weird leaving your house like that." She said she's never had sex so fast with somebody and that she wants to see me again, but only if we don't have sex for a while and just do platonic things. I drop all interest at this point.

Last was the most confusing. A 7 from OKC; same date template except I used Roosh's "can I use your bathroom" line to get into her house on the first date. Make out in bedroom ensues, lots of LMR moving my hands off her breasts etc. I plough and eventually get her top off and on her bed but she is adamant and keeps saying "I can't..I want to but I cant.." so I relent and bounce with her enthusiastic. Second date to club, bounce to my house and sex with zero LMR. Made sure to have plenty of post-coital talking, connecting etc and she slept over. Great night. After that, hardly get any responses from her via text and after a week I have to pull teeth to see her again. When I do, she is reluctant to have sex and later laments how she slept with me "on the second date."

So maybe I'm mistaken, but my view of most of the good guys on this forum is that they are swooping girls, getting bangs very quickly but also have harems of chicks that they can see, that want to see them often/on the regular, and even can have the option of turning into relationships.

The trouble I'm having is not getting bangs. I feel like if I can get a girl interested enough to go on a date with me, I can take care of the rest. The problem is getting them to stay around after that! I would really like to at least have the option of girlfriending one of them up or spinning plates. Instead I end up having sex infrequently, inconsistently and can't seem to extract excitement/long term interest from any of them. I get pussy and then it is gone like a vapor in the mist.

The advice I would give myself is to switch it a slow-burn method, and NOT try to bang as fast as possible. Work on building more comfort, go on a few dates and bang by date 3 or 4 instead. I predict the RVF forum would say the opposite, though, to always go for the bang, be bold, girls reward boldness not timidity etc. The two methods seem in contradiction to each other.

So what do you guys think? Is there something I can do differently in the future to keep girls around? My goal is to spin a couple of plates and just have options on the regular. No more periods of dry spell.

[J.J.]

Work more on comfort game. It's possible that your game is not wrong, you just were a victim of small sample sizes and randomness.

[Christian McQueen]

There's two factors to consider.

1. How are you fucking them in bed? Are you a 1-minute man or are you thoroughly pounding their pussies?

A girl will evade and drop contact sometimes due to initial bad sex. They take that as a sign that the 'relationship' isn't meant to be.

2. You're forgetting that girls today are just as quick to go out looking for sex with no intentions of meeting up again as men.

I've been seeing this trend going strong the last year and a half. They just want the dick for a night or two and they're done. I'll chalk it up to their increasingly masculine attitudes and hypergamy.

[Aliblahba]

(02-05-2014 06:47 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

2. You're forgetting that girls today are just as quick to go out looking for sex with no intentions of meeting up again as men.

I've been seeing this trend going strong the last year and a half. They just want the dick for a night or two and they're done. I'll chalk it up to their increasingly masculine attitudes and hypergamy.

I got gamed a couple times last year and thought it was something I did. Spent days on the couch watching One Tree Hill and eating tubs of Turkey Hill Rocky Road.

[Menace]

Basically I think the first bang is not a real enjoyment bang, it's more of a performance bang...you have to really focus and make it count and go a long time, etc. Is this buying into their "frame"? Who fucking knows. And yeah, if I like the girl and she meets my physical preferences (not just bangable), I want to see her again...sad that many have become so male in their thinking.

[vagabond]

Slightly different topic, but where are you meeting them for the first date off the internet? Girls never seem to want to give out their address or come over to my place, so I meet them out at a bar in their neighborhood usually. Then I'm lucky to get a quick make out in between bars or on the way to her car at the end of the date.

(02-05-2014 06:47 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

There's two factors to consider.

1. How are you fucking them in bed? Are you a 1-minute man or are you thoroughly pounding their pussies?

A girl will evade and drop contact sometimes due to initial bad sex. They take that as a sign that the 'relationship' isn't meant to be.

2. You're forgetting that girls today are just as quick to go out looking for sex with no intentions of meeting up again as men.

I've been seeing this trend going strong the last year and a half. They just want the dick for a night or two and they're done. I'll chalk it up to their increasingly masculine attitudes and hypergamy.

[BlurredLines]

Girls are flaky. And they're getting worse. Just focus on learning as much as possible and developing your game to reduce it as far as is possible.

Early last year i always had 3 or 4 regular girls down for sex at any one time, that is currently down to 2, has been since October and i'm struggling to get it back to that higher level. Since then it's been the 2 regulars and only ever ONS's or a 2 or 3 time thing. I've been getting either no contact after the first lay, or the girl not being happy without a relationship and ejecting after a few weeks. I really can't see anything thats changed in how i'm doing things.. so currently just chalk it down to being mostly out of my control. As long as i'm getting at least as good quality new girls, i don't really care too much.

Agree on the sex thing. Blow her mind every time, but especially the first. Then you know you've done all you can on that front. I definitely don't think it's buying into her frame? But so what if it is? If you bang her long and hard all night long and do things to her no other guys have... that should be pretty fucking good for you too, do it on your terms.

[tylerdurden1993]

I have the OPs problem in the fact i don't have a good abundance mentality and if I do pull a ONS I can't make it last longer than a couple of bangs tops (with me initiating the meet up usually near closing time at the club),
One of the major reasons i think this happens is that i'm shit at sex, which is understandable because i'm not very experienced, but i think the first couple of times you bang them as other posters have pointed out you really have to bring your A game.
Coincidently one of the girls I banged last year I made her cum (i don't think it was faked haha) and the next day she was texting me saying how are you really enjoyed last night bla bla bla.

[WestIndianArchie]

Decent write up

Fast sex, especially with a young inexperienced girl, can lead to buyer's remorse.

My sample size isn't big enough to know how jaded my average target is - but in my experience, most ATTRACTIVE women have been having to handle thirsty men since they hit puberty. The more attractive, the more they have to build up their defenses - but they once you get through, sometimes they seem to be less able to handle quick sex. But your mile may vary.

Questions
- How old are these girls? How old are you?
- What are they looking for in a LTR? (which is sometimes a pre req for BF/FB)
- What's your long term value? Educated? Employed? Kind and Caring?
- What broke up your pre-Red Pill relationships?

Possible issues
- Sex game needs help - see above
- You're just being used for sex - see above, happens more often than you would think - Not Fool's Mate, level 1 of game is identifying hot prospects and developing them

Or, some of your Pre-Red Pill behavior comes in after the lay...or You're way too Red Pill and she can't handle you.

Even with more info, 4 chicks not wanting extra servings of dick isn't necessarily a pattern.

WIA

[WestIndianArchie]

(02-05-2014 07:15 PM)vagabond Wrote:  

Slightly different topic, but where are you meeting them for the first date off the internet? Girls never seem to want to give out their address or come over to my place, so I meet them out at a bar in their neighborhood usually. Then I'm lucky to get a quick make out in between bars or on the way to her car at the end of the date.

I think comrade Soup has a post on "Fresh Direct" (which is a NYC area grocery delivery service)

WIA

[Checkmat]

(02-05-2014 06:47 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

There's two factors to consider.

1. How are you fucking them in bed? Are you a 1-minute man or are you thoroughly pounding their pussies?

A girl will evade and drop contact sometimes due to initial bad sex. They take that as a sign that the 'relationship' isn't meant to be.

2. You're forgetting that girls today are just as quick to go out looking for sex with no intentions of meeting up again as men.

Sex can be hit or miss. If I'm coming from some time off, any guy knows there's some re-acclimation so that first time won't be my best. I do bust fast, yeah. I try to make up for it by fucking them 2-4 times through the night.

But doesn't the importance of sex fly in the face of Roosh's attitude of not caring if she orgasms or not?

(02-05-2014 07:53 PM)tylerdurden1993 Wrote:  

I have the OPs problem in the fact i don't have a good abundance mentality and if I do pull a ONS I can't make it last longer than a couple of bangs tops (with me initiating the meet up usually near closing time at the club),
One of the major reasons i think this happens is that i'm shit at sex, which is understandable because i'm not very experienced, but i think the first couple of times you bang them as other posters have pointed out you really have to bring your A game.
Coincidently one of the girls I banged last year I made her cum (i don't think it was faked haha) and the next day she was texting me saying how are you really enjoyed last night bla bla bla.

Bringing your A-game to sex for the first time especially sounds good and all, but I remember the last LTR I had the sex was awful in the beginning. I had come off a multi-year dry spell, and the girl was a lingerie model. Needless to say I was like McLovin from Superbad. She had invested so much into the relationship emotionally before having sex, though, weeks of talking, sending me naked pics, bringing me cupcakes etc that even when the sex was bad, she rationalized it away and kept clinging on to me. Eventually I checked out David Shade's Sexy Dirty Talk CD's and it got way, wayyyy better.

Dirty talk has helped immersion for me in the past. I remember a ONS with a girl and I talked dirty to her the whole time, getting her so built up idk if she came or not but afterward she was gasping and said, "I am speechless.." so I took that as a good sign. Another ONS shortly after that resulted in the same thing and the girl, a very weak 6, wanted to keep seeing me but I couldn't bring myself to.

So for what it's worth, when I have brought my A-game sex the first time, they have wanted to keep seeing me. When I have not brought my A-game, they have not wanted to...

(02-05-2014 08:03 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Questions
- How old are these girls? How old are you?
- What are they looking for in a LTR? (which is sometimes a pre req for BF/FB)
- What's your long term value? Educated? Employed? Kind and Caring?
- What broke up your pre-Red Pill relationships?

Possible issues
- Sex game needs help - see above
- You're just being used for sex - see above, happens more often than you would think - Not Fool's Mate, level 1 of game is identifying hot prospects and developing them

Or, some of your Pre-Red Pill behavior comes in after the lay...or You're way too Red Pill and she can't handle you.

Even with more info, 4 chicks not wanting extra servings of dick isn't necessarily a pattern.

WIA

First of all, you're absolutely right that 4 chicks is a small sample size and doesn't mean I'm doing something wrong. It's all I have to go on so I was scratching my head and thought I'd query the forum. If there's something I'm doing wrong I'd like to fix it now as opposed to when I have a 20-sample size but still no repeats bangs.

Answers: In order, they were 31, 24, 28 and 21. I'm 25.
The first one was a single mom and wanted some sort of LTR I'm sure. The others were off OKC so I kind of assumed they were fucking at least a couple of other guys they'd met through that site. The last girl, the 7, said she was looking for an LTR when she got on the site.
My long-term value is good. Employed in a prestigious and six-figure career.
What broke up my pre-red pill relationships was that the girls were alcoholics and had daddy issues and cheated.

So the consensus seems to be that getting sex as fast as possible is not the problem, is that right? You guys have all banged girls quickly and had them stick around, become GFs etc I assume. From what I can gather, really giving them a great time bed the first time will make them want to come back for more. That is definitely something I can work on.

[AneroidOcean]

(02-05-2014 09:02 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

So the consensus seems to be that getting sex as fast as possible is not the problem, is that right? You guys have all banged girls quickly and had them stick around, become GFs etc I assume. From what I can gather, really giving them a great time bed the first time will make them want to come back for more. That is definitely something I can work on.

It's not a race, but if you're not continually escalating, the tingles will dry up.

[Beginner]

I've been shitty in bed but girls want to see me again because of the comfort built up and the things we do outside of the bedroom

[Parlay44]

Don't overanalyze. It's not you. It's them. It's a sellers' market right now so women have lots of options and shame is non-existent hence their pickiness and flakiness. Cut 'em loose and move on. There's plenty of girls out there just waiting to jump on your dick. Approach.

[WestIndianArchie]

(02-05-2014 09:02 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

So the consensus seems to be that getting sex as fast as possible is not the problem, is that right? You guys have all banged girls quickly and had them stick around, become GFs etc I assume. From what I can gather, really giving them a great time bed the first time will make them want to come back for more. That is definitely something I can work on.

The sex aspect of the game is more than just an athletic performance.
It's more than just saying "What's my name b/w Who's pussy is this"

The problem with the first bang is that unless you know how to read a chick's body language, and then have a bunch of tricks up your sleeve - it's very hard to know what she wants and likes without asking her.

But asking her if she likes X,Y,or Z is a very quick way to dry up the pussy.

They want you to be able to read their minds and anticipate what they like.

That's what they want. Or at least say they want.

"Don't ask me to kiss me, just kiss me"
"Don't ask me to take it on the face, just splash me"

As cocksmen, I think the best thing we can do is attack the issue 3 fold

1) the pre-sex game - the build up. You've got to heat her up and make her really want you. Physically push and pull, tease...ideally she's begging you to ram it in (and you're getting this on full color hd video for your collection and any issues down the line)

2) the sex game - read all the books you want, but IMO you're better off fucking her like you like fucking, and establishing what you want, and pleasing yourself with her as a willing partner.

3) the post game - It's a guessing game here, but if you made her sopping wet, fucked her like a champ, now you're in the post-nut bliss, now's the time to draw her near and luxuriate in her body. I probably wouldn't talk much, but rubbing/massaging post bang, making her feel good with your gentle touch after a Rocco Siffredi session may intensify the emotional side for her.

One the one hand you're a stone cold killer and champ in the sack, but after she gives herself to you - then and only then do you show you're masculine tenderness. And just for a moment in time.

From there, I personally run the "all night" conversation. The "look up at the stars and talk about what we want to be when we grow up" type conversation.

I've never fucked a chick that didn't want to be my girlfriend afterward.

WIA

[All or Nothing]

(02-05-2014 06:47 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

They just want the dick for a night or two and they're done. I'll chalk it up to their increasingly masculine attitudes and hypergamy.

Is it wrong that knowing this makes me feel sad inside?

I am more on the newbie end of the spectrum, but I am repeatedly finding that women only reward my behavior when I mercilessly pursue sex with them. If I ever try to be nice or appear like a boyfriend, I get shutdown immediately.

Some part of me wants there to be more to my relationships with women than dick entering pussy.

[Christian McQueen]

^No it's not wrong.

Our society is toxic now, particularly in relationships.

God forbid you show an ounce of kindness to an American woman BEFORE banging her.

[horn]

As someone else said, focus more on comfort game if you want to see them again in addition to banging them well.

One of mystery's best comments is the 'Fool's Mate,' if you bang a girl too quickly, she will have remorse and not want to see you again. He says it takes about 7 hours to get her really comfortable with you, that can be 2 nights out or whatever. In a ONS you're not going to see her that long so bigger chance of flaking.

This is why I prefer seeing someone 2x for drinks for girls I really like. You're still going to kino, escalate, and venue bounce throughout the night, and then it's much easier to extract her back to your place the 2nd time. Way less LMR this way. Every girl last year I ran comfort game along with kino on the first meet-up, rather than simply going for ONS, called me or texted me to go out again. One girl was so confused I didn't invite her home right away she sent me dozens of texts the next day, and the rest of the week. Hamsters will spin.

Small sample size, and younger girls flake more as you know. Don't worry about it too much.

[Travesty]

Young girls 23 and under that are attractive I would go for the bang and just know maybe 1 in 4 will be open to harem membership.

Their value in our society is overblown by thirst. Showing kindness and too much comfort will get you crucified with these girls.

Comfort game is easier to do on older chicks,
but what isn't easier with older chicks? Maybe avoiding the cat litterboxes and scratching posts all over their apartments is tougher.

Bottom line if you bang in the double digits per year a harem will form. 4 is not enough.