rooshvforum.network is a fully functional forum: you can search, register, post new threads etc...
Old accounts are inaccessible: register a new one, or recover it when possible. x


Womanizing Lawyers
#1

Womanizing Lawyers

Hey guys,

I'm going to law school soon and will (hopefully) one day work in big law. I don't really want to do that my entire life, maybe move into mid-law/in house counsel once I have 5 years big law experience. But in any case, if everything goes according to plan, my years in big law will be between 26-31. I plan on getting married somwhere between 31-35. That leaves 5-10 years of womanizing. However, I'm worried that being a lawyer will prevent me from doing this (hence why i'm working on my game now, before law school takes over my life). I know there are lawyers out there who do fine with women. However, i'm curious if you or anyone you know have done it, and if so, how they balance their work and women (do they have to cut out other stuff, like some hobbies?)
Reply
#2

Womanizing Lawyers

I know someone who followed that exact path you laid out, almost to the letter. You'll be more than fine, especially if you aren't married while your womanizing. You'll meet women in and around the legal environment, especially if working in a metro.

If you go into law, your going to be working hours that are going to cause you to have to cut out 'hobbies' no matter what. Your seriously worried about work and women cutting into hobby time? Dude, if your worried about hobby time, don't go into law. Your life and weekends are going to largely be consumed by work. These days, I think a man has to be masochistic to go into law. Big, mid, and toilet firms will all work you to the bone. The only ones that pay well are big, but good luck getting in. You must be confident in your ability to be top of your class at a T-14.
Reply
#3

Womanizing Lawyers

I'll give you my best answer. Stay out of big law. Money doesn't go that far and I say this coming from a family of lawyers. I'm going to be starting law next year and I wouldn't even consider big law. You want to to be crunching hours to meet billables. Even if you do make partner your still gonna be crunching long hours. Its not a career where you work hard for 5-10 years and then hours drop. You gotta earn you take. Factor in 70 hours a week work, 42 sleep, 10.5 eating = 122.5/168. We haven't even considered the other daily tasks you do from commuting to laundry.
Reply
#4

Womanizing Lawyers

Quote: (12-21-2010 04:52 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

The only ones that pay well are big, but good luck getting in. You must be confident in your ability to be top of your class at a T-14.

This is true perhaps for big law. But not applicable if you run your own shop. Are you gonna be pulling seven sister toronto or Vault size partner incomes, no. But I can tell you, you can have a life if you go this route instead.
Reply
#5

Womanizing Lawyers

Ok, assuming i don't do big law (and I might not even get it, fml), what other options are there? And how can I prepare for them? I don't need to pull vault incomes, but I would like to pay off my debts and live a middle to upper-middle class lifestyle (eventually). You mentioned setting up your own shop? How would you go about doing that, and how would you prepare for it now, as a 0L?
Reply
#6

Womanizing Lawyers

Quote: (12-21-2010 05:18 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

Ok, assuming i don't do big law (and I might not even get it, fml), what other options are there? And how can I prepare for them? I don't need to pull vault incomes, but I would like to pay off my debts and live a middle to upper-middle class lifestyle (eventually). You mentioned setting up your own shop? How would you go about doing that, and how would you prepare for it now, as a 0L?

It's like any other business. Anyone can open one you just need to first meet the qualifications. Aka, be a lawyer. (This may not be true in the US) but I would presume it is. It's no different than guys that set up online businesses here. The market them, get clients and provide a service that meets the customers needs. I couldn't really tell you how to prepare for that as a 0L. Your a half dozen years away from even being able to do this. It would be like being in grade 7 and planning for university. Who knows where your life will be by then. I've already got an in as do many up and coming lawyers who are avoiding big law. Your method of entrance would be different and be a much steeper slope as you have to effectively create your own business from scratch not just slide in.
Reply
#7

Womanizing Lawyers

Thanks man. BTW, if you're not in the US, where are you? Canada? Toronto?
Reply
#8

Womanizing Lawyers

My buddy is in L2 right now, he has to work as a bartender to help pay expenses and he's always studying. That said, if he chose to, he could be nailing a lot more women. You'll be fine. Plus women like that you're in law school. When we hang out, girls will go "Are you in law school too?" and I'll say "Hell no ; )"
Reply
#9

Womanizing Lawyers

Quote: (12-21-2010 05:04 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Quote: (12-21-2010 04:52 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

The only ones that pay well are big, but good luck getting in. You must be confident in your ability to be top of your class at a T-14.

This is true perhaps for big law. But not applicable if you run your own shop. Are you gonna be pulling seven sister toronto or Vault size partner incomes, no. But I can tell you, you can have a life if you go this route instead.

uh, that's true. But you have to put in at least 5 years somewhere first to learn how to be a lawyer. More if you put those years in in a big law firm that is going to severely restrict your duties and exposure to anything that significant in those years. You might be able to open your shop if you work in a very small mid level shop, for 5 years, that gets consistent work, and gives you significant exposure to and a lot of responsibility with that work. Or you could open a shop doing something very basic like real estate.

There are a LOT of lawyers that have been lawyers for 10-20 years that can't do much, or are very inefficient at what they do, because they have never been given the opportunity to learn from someone that really knows what they are doing. A 5 year attorney that has been given a lot of responsibility in a mid-level firm would be able to out-lawyer them.

Even if an attorney works with highly skilled individuals, it may be a long time before they become an attorney of record, if ever. As far as an attorneys specific value goes, a relevant point is that a lot of attorneys get mysteriously pushed out before they are scheduled to make partner. Probably because it doesn't make much sense to give someone partner status who sucks at bringing in business. In the end, that's what its about. There are enough smart attorneys out there that can be trained to be a good attorney, so much so that they seem to be a commodity. Its the ability to bring in business, at the partner level, that counts. At the associate level, its the ability to work like a dog and bill hours.

Starting a small shop, successfully, would 100% depend on your marketing or networking ability. Not everyone has those skills, even those who make good attorneys. There are a lot of attorneys gunning for the same client pool in most cities. The firm that my friend learned at (he recently went in-house) had one very large client. It was him and the principal as the attorneys for one of the largest companies in the USA. He learned a ton. But if the principal ever lost that one client, he his business would have been destroyed.

I think that the best attorney gigs are probably with the federal government. You will probably make a good mid level salary, get loan forgiveness, steady regular hours, no pressure to bill, a twenty year pension, and likely be able to get a great private sector job afterwards (especially if you work in DC and become a lobbyist) which will give you that very high income you were originally after. This is just casual information, based on what I've heard.
Reply
#10

Womanizing Lawyers

Hydro, if you aren't a lawyer you should be. You always have the CYA disclosure at the end haha
Reply
#11

Womanizing Lawyers

haha...good observation Fisto. I cant deny it... i don't know why I do that other than force of habit.

I've been told that before, by girlfriends and my close friend who is an attorney. As you can tell, I'm overly analytical. I have to try and suppress my tendency to argue and analyze. I don't do a good job of that on this forum. I'm trying though. I think i have to try harder. I know that I'm not 'right' all the time, even though I like to debate arguments to their conclusion, and so maybe that's why I put the disclaimer at the end. I don't want to seem like I think that my opinion is the be-all-end-all. My opinions are just opinions. Its strange, because if you met me, I don't come off like that at all. You might think me more of an stoner than anything , by my slow rate of speech, my sleepy eyes, and my propensity to smile. I only get into debate mode if I knew you real well and there was a good reason for it, or in written discussions. Otherwise, my conversational style is light and social. I think I would make a good lawyer, but luckily I m smart enough to not be one [Image: wink.gif]
Reply
#12

Womanizing Lawyers

The median salary in 2006 was $62K, with average students loans of $85K. Less than 20% of new associates get the elite benchmark salary (currently $160K).
Bimodal Law Salaries

One Boston College Law School third-year—miraculously, still anonymous—begged for his tuition back in exchange for a promise to drop out without a degree, in an open letter to his dean published earlier this month.

Between 2007 and 2009, the number of LSAT takers climbed 20.5 percent. ... Law schools awarded 43,588 J.D.s last year, up 11.5 percent since 2000, though there was technically negative demand for lawyers.

Worse, the profession as a whole shrunk: The number of people employed in legal services hit an all-time high of 1.196 million in June 2007. It currently stands at 1.103 million. That means the number of law jobs has dwindled by about 7.8 percent. In comparison, the total number of jobs has fallen about 5.4 percent over the same period.

Excess Supply of Law School Grads

lawyers have the dubious distinction of having the highest default rates among students borrowing for graduate studies. ... At some law schools, as many as 40 percent of the past decade’s graduates have stopped paying their loans. The default rate among law school graduates nationwide is estimated at between 15 and 20 percent.
LawSchoolDebt

Like this forum contributer:
$200K Student Debt. No job. Time to skip the country?
Reply
#13

Womanizing Lawyers

I'm in law school right now. I can't recommend going to law school right now, unless you get into a T14. I do work in "big law," but it's in patent prosecution, which is a bit special compared to standard litigation practice. I don't know if the good times are ever going to come back, but business (and hence billable hours) are down.

Partnership is a scam; getting it does not necessarily depend on 1) merit, or 2) being a rainmaker. I know of a lawyer in my firm who was made equity partner without having his own client for client relation and political purposes. Getting clients often depends on your social network, like people you went to law school with or grad school/undergrad with.

On the other hand, I generally like the people I work with (#1 important factor), and the job is interesting and challenging. However, all partners and associates are highly idiosyncratic, which means each has a different idea of what your final work product should look like. If you can't deal with this sort of situation, you will not enjoy law practice.

I certainly don't plan on sticking around for partnership. It's simply not worth it, even if you're making $700K-$1M gross annually (not uncommon). I made $15-$20K per year as a graduate student, and I can't say that I am any happier making many times that salary. For me, happiness comes from travel, friends, and family. hydrogonian's advice is generally solid, especially with respect to working at the federal government. Down the road, I will either do that, or go in-house.
Reply
#14

Womanizing Lawyers

Quote: (12-22-2010 01:33 PM)Menace Wrote:  

I do work in "big law," but it's in patent prosecution, ...

Is your take that you need an engineering degree to continue with this firm? My impression is that is what it takes to be a successful patent attorney, with rare exceptions. But you would have a better idea about that.

Quote: (12-22-2010 01:33 PM)Menace Wrote:  

On the other hand, I generally like the people I work with (#1 important factor), and the job is interesting and challenging.

From the experiences of the people I know in law, that are in anything other than federal work or in-house, I would say that you got lucky. Especially as far as the "liking the people that you work with" thing goes. From what I get, billing pressure tends to turn the work environment hostile and people into douchebags.
Reply
#15

Womanizing Lawyers

Quote: (12-22-2010 05:02 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

Is your take that you need an engineering degree to continue with this firm? My impression is that is what it takes to be a successful patent attorney, with rare exceptions. But you would have a better idea about that.

This is my impression too - the best patent lawyers I worked with came from engineering background. Much harder to do it the opposite way.

Quote: (12-21-2010 05:18 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

Ok, assuming i don't do big law (and I might not even get it, fml), what other options are there?

If you do criminal law, you can work at public defender office. Pay is not that much, but you won't work 80 hours a week, and it looks like there is lot of opportunity to get laid.
Reply
#16

Womanizing Lawyers

Groan – OMG! - College guidance counselors are as bad as real estate brokers when it comes to overselling the law school product. Gimme strength God – send Roosh a check for my past post and for the one I am going to put in now –

Read this thread – particularly my posts - http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-2000.html

Starting from the last post back – Regarding patent law – this falls under the intellectual property umbrella – Patents apply to mechanical/chemical/ products in commerce and sometimes chemical or industrial processes. The patent system has become another scam. To register a patent you have to disclose the workings/ingredients of what it is you seek to patent. “Patent trolls” scour the government filings looking at newly patented products and then ‘shop’ the product to a competitor who then turns the patent material over to a patent lawyer with the order to find a way to make a product as close in design and working to the patented one without running afoul of the patent. A simplified example would be that scene from the movie ‘Coming to America’ where the girl’s father says “McDonald’s got the Big Mac – we’ll - we’ve got the Big Mick.” In other words legally when does a new product/process differ enough from a patented process to be deemed a different product from the patented one. To do this requires an engineering/chemical degree and probably some experience as an engineer. I had one case with a huge patent law firm in the country (on a non-patent case) – I won’t name them because they have bots that scour the net for any mention of them - of the 4 attorneys assigned to fight little old me – two of them were army corps of engineer guys with 4 and 6 year degrees in mechanical engineering. A third kid went to school in Japan and was published in the ‘Journal of Robotics’ for writing an article to the effect of ‘fractilizing the hexapod.’ All 4 of them were complete assholes – they were the worst lawyers I’ve ever seen and the federal judge assigned to the case threw them out of her courtroom in lower Manhattan. I had friggen’ criminal terrorist trials in the next room over with 50 guys with machine guns on the floor and here were these pricks sent packing – heh.

The patent system is all adjudicated in patent courts and they have their own patent bar application. This is why pharmacists goto law school – because they can work on drug patents – get the idea? The flip side is a patent lawyer admitted to the patent court with a toxicology background gets billed out at $650 an hour.
Other intellectual property issues – copyright/trademark/fair use/counterfeiting – 85% of this is done at the federal level. I’ve had some good cases – Russian mobster counterfeiting computers – unauthorized use of an artists’ name to sell publications - these were the best cases I ever worked on because I got to go all over the country – Hell I went to Vegas cause a witness lived outside the city. I worked 10 hours asking questions about comic book art and I was on the strip getting wasted by 9:00 pm. In Federal Court you can depose and compel someone to be deposed anywhere in the 50 states – I was in Detroit two times Cleveland, Philly, etc. This is good work if you can get it. Because intellectual property is big money – landing a client with the money to prosecute or defend these cases is highly competitive. Landing an IP job in a biglaw firm after graduation would be a tough proposition. Also – New York City, Austin Texas, and Los Angeles are the centers for this work. Also – there is a Jewish ‘mafia’ in that trade in this country (as with so many trades) – busting your way in to that ‘club’ is near impossible. If you and a tribal associate are hired in the same year – it does not matter what you do for the firm – don’t be surprised if Lisa Rosenberg Scwartzstein gets a partnership and you don’t.

On that note – a word about partnerships –
Generally speaking – you have 6 to 8 years to make partner. You don’t become partner first unless you bring in books of business – you become a ‘contract partner’ or a junior partner which means you are contractually entitled to a share of the firm’s profits but you are still an at-will employee meaning you can be terminated without cause. Also – sometimes if you get an ‘offer’ to be a partner – you have to buy shares in the company which cost $$$$$$. Not to many people have that type of cash which means you have to get a loan, etc. There is no firm which could pay a partner a 1 million salary without that partner ‘buying in’ – or bringing a huge client in. A buy in can take many forms however – they could open a satellite office in another city and send you to run it – and you could bring the business in that way, etc.

KimLeeBJ’s stats on employment are dead on. I have no fucking clue why so many people are still going to Law School – there are no jobs – there is not enough litigation to support the number of lawyers now. Another partner in a nice firm on Long Island said ‘Law as a business is dying’ – there are a lot of rules now about settling cases where Medicare has a lien – you cannot believe what is going on – you could cut 1/3 of lawyers in New York today and you would still have a surplus. Now of course – if your parents are paying your tuition or you have an ‘in’ with a good company that is another story – but going out on your own – do you really want to helping people with speeding tickets for 100$ a pop?

There are successful business models I see now for lawyers – What Hydro was talking about – getting ‘pushed out’ as time to award a partnership approaches – is now happening to me. I am going to post here about firm politics for Roosh disciple opinion – I am making some money on the side from Irish contractors and cases on the side – I hope I can last long enough in my current job to make it to the point I can get enough of a client base – I am following other models - i.e. totally mobil with e-mail and fax to your blackberry - laptop usage and no fixed office space.

And I got news for you – you think you are going to roll into Kiss & Fly and pussy is going to drop from the chandeliers cause you’re a law student – read my other post. Lawyers suck. The paralegal (who was 45) at my first job said I was the only lawyer she ever met in her life that knew how to have a good time. It confers no status in the nightlife realm except to a good girl that wants a provider – go out tomorrow night and tell everyone you are a law student – yeah – that works. <choke>

Also, until you have worked an 80 hour week in an office – you have no idea how taxing that is on every part of your body and psche – its one thing to do it in a farming capacity because farming is a lifestyle – or on a project such as putting a house up – working like crazy for 6 weeks and then being off for a month - but to commute in 6 days a week and drop 12 to 15 hour days in an office at a computer terminal or reading boring discovery material is another story. I've done that for several weeks at a time and I can tell you that even if the elusive 10 were to throw her face in your lap on a Friday night to give you a snarlen' - after a week like that you might not raise to the occassion.

Realize that the majority of your co-workers (this may be true across many industries now) do not have lives, are not interested in healthy lives – don’t care if their 13 year old daughters are using cocaine and fucking the landscaping crew back in Great Neck – your superiors will expect you to have the same outlook on life – if you took your vacation to the south of france and nailed some bikini model and showed pictures to your boss you’d get demerits – they cant stand anyone getting over on them – I could publish a fucking book on whats happened to me in the past year. I am going to post a series of office political actions directed at me for Roosh readership commented over Christmas weekend -

Males in corporate America are really like jealous bitches – bringing my wife all tarted up to the firm’s Christmas party shows it up. People where I live are toxic in general - in a NYC law firm - forget it. You might as well smoke pure tar.
Reply
#17

Womanizing Lawyers

Quote: (12-22-2010 05:02 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

Is your take that you need an engineering degree to continue with this firm? My impression is that is what it takes to be a successful patent attorney, with rare exceptions. But you would have a better idea about that.

From the experiences of the people I know in law, that are in anything other than federal work or in-house, I would say that you got lucky. Especially as far as the "liking the people that you work with" thing goes. From what I get, billing pressure tends to turn the work environment hostile and people into douchebags.

Yes, I have a PhD. Engineers only need their engineering degree, but if you do chemistry/biochemistry/related work, a PhD is pretty much a requirement.

Yeah, I probably did get lucky re co-workers. Law is all about ABB (Always Be Billing).
Reply
#18

Womanizing Lawyers

Quote: (12-21-2010 03:54 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

Hey guys,

I'm going to law school soon and will (hopefully) one day work in big law. I don't really want to do that my entire life, maybe move into mid-law/in house counsel once I have 5 years big law experience. But in any case, if everything goes according to plan, my years in big law will be between 26-31. I plan on getting married somwhere between 31-35. That leaves 5-10 years of womanizing. However, I'm worried that being a lawyer will prevent me from doing this (hence why i'm working on my game now, before law school takes over my life). I know there are lawyers out there who do fine with women. However, i'm curious if you or anyone you know have done it, and if so, how they balance their work and women (do they have to cut out other stuff, like some hobbies?)



Congrats. You're in the same situation I was last year!

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-1837.html

Contributor at Return of Kings.  I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can follow me on Gab.

Be sure to check out the easiest mining program around, FreedomXMR.
Reply
#19

Womanizing Lawyers

I just want to point out that the title "womanizing lawyers" is goddamned misleading! I was looking forward to talking about women lawyers we've banged and I get a bunch of time management mumbo jumbo....jeebus...

Anyway, this one girl is in law school and she's a squirter. Gross....but hot gross....
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)