[scorpion]

(01-30-2014 03:22 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

"But I got quite a bit of didactic hate toward other religions when I was immersed in Jewish culture. For whatever reason, some very vocal Jews (not even the majority) just can't tend to their own -- they feel the need to monitor and control other religions and cultures. Hence, the vocal feminists who are absolutely indignant a woman would put her family first. "

Yeah pretty much.

I noticed that Jews very rarely are critical of their own religion/culture. Even if they do have such thoughts they will almost never express them in public, it's like they have an acute sense about how all Jews should play nice with each other and never try to undermine each other in public. If you look at Christianity it's the complete opposite. Some of the most anti-Christian people are people who are former Christians - particular Catholics. For some reason Catholicism seems to create a high number of bitter apostates - especially with people who went through Catholic school.

For an example of this look at the 'Four Horsemen' from the New Atheism movement. Dawkins and Dennett are pure WASPs: Dawkins received a Anglican education which entailed going to chapel and studying religious works while Dennett was raised with a New England Protestant background which is pretty much as WASP as you can get in the US. The vast majority of their criticism on religion is aimed towards Christianity. Harris has a Jewish background of some sort but he almost never criticizes Judaism, instead focusing on Islam and Christianity.

In my own personal life some of the most anti-religion people I've met have been Jews - I knew two of them back in college. These Jews would heap scorn and burning coals on other religions but Judaism would always be spared. Hell one of these guys even used to go Hillel on our campus often, would keep kosher for passover, and even had a Jew wedding while wearing the little hat on the top of his head and everything. The other guy, who was my roommate I would ask why he would never attack Judaism with the same ferocity he did with Christianity and he would simply reply with "Oh cause my friends and family are Jews". Too bad his Muslim and Christian friends and family apparently aren't deserving of the same reprieve apparently.

A lot of criticism of Christianity comes from certain practices that are described in the Old Testament. I noticed that people who used these practices to attack Christianity would never use it as attacks on Judaism which is bizarre because Jews are supposed to be bound to the law while with Christians, they are exempt from a lot of the laws such as the dietary ones. If you wanted to attack the Abrahamic religions in general it would seem to make more sense to attack it at the root with is Judaism but instead it's Islam and Christianity that recieves the majority of the blows.

Jews are a distinct racial and ethnic group, which is why you see this phenomenon. A Jew renouncing anything Jewish would be like a black guy renouncing his own blackness, or an Irishman renouncing his Irishness. It doesn't happen. Judaism itself is not so much a religion as an evolved ethnic supremacist ideology that supports the Jewish people and helps them thrive as a group. This is the reason that Jews have never been serious about proselytizing or seeking converts, while every other major religion does. Being a Catholic, a Muslim, a Mormon or a Buddhist is a matter of faith, while being a Jew is a matter of birth. This is also the reason that Jews trace their lineage through the mother rather than the father - anyone born to a Jewish woman is considered a Jew - since paternity could always be questioned, while maternity cannot.

[Wutang]

Emancipator: Yep I've seen that phenomenon as well. There were these two Jews I knew from college (one of them was my roommate) who you were typical liberal SPWL types. On my campus, there were these pro-lifer people that used to set up demonstrations in front of the food hall and after one such event (which featured charming pictures of aborted fetuses) one of these Jews actually called the cops on them for not parking their car exactly the right distance from the curb with his reasoning that Al Capone was brought down via tax evasion rather then from any of his Mafia activities. He added: "These people are what is wrong with America these days" The other Jew who was my roommate came back to our apartment nearly on the verge of tears from being so angry. These guys would suddenly turn into hardcore Republicans whenever Israel was brought up. One of them (the cop caller) was/is actively involved in pro-Israel causes on campus while my roommate actually straight up said that "Palestinians are not a real people" while getting upset whenever I would make jokes about blacks/gays/latinos/whatever.

Scorpion: Totally agree. I've been harping on for years now about how Jewishness is an ethnic identity while Jews would always insist that it was a religion. I used to debate those two Jews I was referring to about this and they would just end up not being able to really define what a Jew really is. To add to the ridiculousness, these Jews are both atheists with one of them being one of those New Atheist types but both would still insist that they are Jews and therefore belong to the Jewish religion. It's silly as hell, anyone who is no longer a Catholic or Muslim due to no longer believing in God would simply be identified as an atheist while a Jew who is an atheist is still a Jew but strangely enough at the same Jewishness is somehow still a religious identity? Not to mention that while being people raised in certain religions from birth it still doesn't entail that just because you are born to Catholic parents that you are automatically an Catholic. You still have to make some sort of minimal effort to be considered a member of the religion. Conversely, if you are born a Jew then you are automatically a Jew even if you never participate in a single Jewish activity in your life. Geez that sounds a lot like...being born into a certain ethnicity?

[mikado]

Same as with Islam

Many people tend to believe that if someone is born from Muslim parents, then he is a muslim.
FALSE
Sure, being raised by muslim parents will make you more prone to muslim beliefs, but you still have, to an extent at least, to search within your own soul if you truly believe in God, draw your own conclusions and try to answer some questions by yourself, and not just relying on your parent's cultural heritage.

[rastignac]

(01-30-2014 03:26 AM)bacon Wrote:  

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Do people really think that a stay at home mom is really on equal footing with a woman who works

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We have baby showers and wedding parties as if it’s a huge accomplishment and cause for celebration to be able to get knocked up or find someone to walk down the aisle with. These aren’t accomplishments.

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I want to have a shower for a woman when she backpacks on her own through Asia, gets a promotion, or lands a dream job not when she stays inside the box and does the house and kids thing which is the path of least resistance.

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Women will be equal with men when we stop demanding that it be considered equally important to do housework and real work. They are not equal. Doing laundry will never be as important as being a doctor or an engineer or building a business.

source

The idea of a woman being happy with a husband and kids and the fact that lifestyle could be an ideal lifestyle for women is problematic for other women who are too old/used to have a chance finding a husband and having kids. Or are too fat/homely to find a suitable partner so their cognitive dissonance kicks in and they must ramp up their beliefs about happiness via career and go so far as to attack women who decide to go another way by having kids and a husband.

The maternal instinct and the drive to procreate before a womans eggs are used up is a powerful biological force. This author, as feminism often does, is trying to omit biology and assume men and women are opperating on a level playing field with ideals about work, marriage and having kids.

To illustrate the biological difference futher with respect to having children consider results from a study of 5000 people of all ages in Britain by Open University measuring happiness and children. The study found:

Quote:

Yet, when asked to rate how happy they were with their lives in general there was a gender divide. Mothers were happier overall than any other group, while childless women were the least happy. By contrast men with children emerged slightly less happy than those without.

These results are important because very little studies have actually looked into happiness and children but the results are daming for women who believe career is something they should put over having a family no less ridicule other women for making that natural lifestyle decision.

"You will never have the time, energy, freedom or mobility to be exceptional if you have a husband and kids."

The views in this article represent the typical view of working "professional" women in San Francisco. These are not marginal views here.