[Ferro]

This has now happened more than a couple times to me. I give a girl a choice of two days to grab a drink, she picks one, and then on the day of after I send her the venue she'll throw something like this at me:

Quote:

"Alright well, just a heads up. I have a call in for work from 6-10 so I have to call at 4 to see if they need me.
"I'll let u kno"

I just got that text today. I usually reply with something like "k. hit me up then" just to be safe.

Now if she was outright flakey/late I'd hit her with chateau heartiste lines like "gay" "B====D" "-X points" etc. But in these instances she is giving notice well in advance.

Does anyone have a good approach to these roadblocks that maximizes the chance they'll come out? Obviously aside from already having abundance and just scheduling another girl.

[tylerdurden1993]

Girls are damn flakey these days the last 3 numbers I got off okcupid I arranged to meet up with them . All 3 of them flaked but I got the im ill excuse. My two theories for girls flaking like this is you either didn't reassure them enough your not a weirdo, or you don't seem exciting enough to have a couple hours of her "precious" time, may have to mix up the text game a bit.

[Christian McQueen]

(01-27-2014 05:05 PM)Ferro Wrote:  

This has now happened more than a couple times to me. I give a girl a choice of two days to grab a drink, she picks one, and then on the day of after I send her the venue she'll throw something like this at me:

Quote:

"Alright well, just a heads up. I have a call in for work from 6-10 so I have to call at 4 to see if they need me.
"I'll let u kno"

I just got that text today. I usually reply with something like "k. hit me up then" just to be safe.

Now if she was outright flakey/late I'd hit her with chateau heartiste lines like "gay" "B====D" "-X points" etc. But in these instances she is giving notice well in advance.

Does anyone have a good approach to these roadblocks that maximizes the chance they'll come out? Obviously aside from already having abundance and just scheduling another girl.

Therein lies part of the problem: you're letting her lead the interaction.

I'll answer your question with a couple of questions for you.

1. Why is she more important than you in that she gets 2 choices of nights to hang out?

2. She shouldn't be 'busier' than you. When you essentially tell her she has her choice of 2 nights, that speaks to her that you have nothing going on with your life, plus you're already catering to her life, instead of her catering to you. Why did/do you feel the need to give them options? Is it because you feel like they are less likely to flake? Worrying about the girl flaking will only send off the wrong type of energy and she will indeed flake.

[Ferro]

(01-27-2014 06:19 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

Therein lies part of the problem: you're letting her lead the interaction.

I'll answer your question with a couple of questions for you.

1. Why is she more important than you in that she gets 2 choices of nights to hang out?

2. She shouldn't be 'busier' than you. When you essentially tell her she has her choice of 2 nights, that speaks to her that you have nothing going on with your life, plus you're already catering to her life, instead of her catering to you. Why did/do you feel the need to give them options? Is it because you feel like they are less likely to flake? Worrying about the girl flaking will only send off the wrong type of energy and she will indeed flake.

First of all, I appreciate your focus on frame and I stated before and agree that this eventually becomes a non-issue with abundance. Though even at that point it would be good to know the best practices, which is why I am always experimenting.

I am not so sure that giving them the illusion of choice is giving them much hand, as I am deciding we are going out and when and where. (Whether it is better to give them zero choice or a bit of choice is an interesting question in itself, especially depending on one's local culture)

I have tried the Bang "Do you want to hang out later this week?" "How about x" *No* "how about y" etc. I have also tried the "whats ur schedule like this week" path. Right now I am testing Tom Torero's "Lets do x this week.. is y or z better for u"

The Bang method works with your philosophy, but in practice leads to too much annoying back and forth which has cost me girls. The "what's ur schedule like this week" method (from some smart guys on this forum) is similar to the Bang method except it is much easier to slot in girls in my week when I text them all that line on Sunday instead of taking a bunch of shots in the dark (maybe the best for wide open weeks, which I don't have). The Torero method (heard it on a podcast) has been great so far in that it is very efficient (all one message, so less loss due to texting back and forth), and it does give that illusion of choice backed by strong leading.

I would say that I am using it less because I am worried about flaking and more because it results in less "texting friction" from all girls involved. If I only had one day available, which has happened before, then there would be no choice, for better or worse.

That is my current philosophy: seeking to reduce texting friction and streamline the process as smoothly as possible. The main problem I am struggling with nowadays are these halfway flaking girls that give me the heads up of potential flaking from work or they have to look after their cousin, etc. Not a huge problem, but something that I believe can be solved here. BTW the original girl just flaked. "-4 points"

[Christian McQueen]

"I am not so sure that giving them the illusion of choice is giving them much hand"

^The possible problem I see with this is that it's lost in translation. What we mean to convey in text doesn't always communicate exactly how it's meant to be read.

One suggestion that has worked very effectively for me is to Invite Along.

Let's say that you'd like to meet XYZ Girl on a Tuesday night around 9pm for drinks. Instead of doing this:

You: "How is Tues or Wed for drinks around 9p?"

Do this:

You: "gonna chill out with a drink Tues nite around 9sh at Joe's Bar. Join me"

Now the illusion is on your side. You know that you're setting up a date, but to her she reads that as you having Plans regardless of her decision, which is part of the process of turning the tables on her.

Girls are used to having the Yes/No Frame when it comes to being asked out. They are the Deciders of the Date.

Part of successful text game is being the one who decides, but doing it in a manner which isn't obvious to her.

If she rejects the offer, due to legit schedule conflicts, or lack of interest, the ball is now in her court whether to suggest a different night.

I live in Flake City (Los Angeles) and using this formula has drastically reduced the Flake Rate for myself.

Also, have it in your mind one of three things:

1. Send that text to 2-3 girls. Odds are, one will bite. IF they all flake, already have it decided that you're going to do something else, whether that is to swing by Joe's Bar and solo game or you have a backup backup date planned.

2. If one flakes and the other pulls through, then it doesn't matter you still were successful in lining up a date.

3. If you are digging one of the two girls more and they both commit, then you flip the table and flake on the girl that you are LEAST into.

I cannot tell you how effective Flaking First is. It is very effective because it shows you are a busy man who is in demand.

A girl's hamster will run like a track athlete at the Olympics and her Competitive Factor will kick in and she will feel the need to reschedule, if for nothing else, but to validate herself again.

[AneroidOcean]

(01-27-2014 07:20 PM)Ferro Wrote:  

The main problem I am struggling with nowadays are these halfway flaking girls that give me the heads up of potential flaking from work or they have to look after their cousin, etc. Not a huge problem, but something that I believe can be solved here. BTW the original girl just flaked. "-4 points"

You can play with the exact wording (calibrating to your interaction/her behaviour), but I'd go along the lines of something like the below:

"Don't have time for maybe plans, let's reschedule."

[Ferro]

(01-27-2014 07:53 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

"I am not so sure that giving them the illusion of choice is giving them much hand"

^The possible problem I see with this is that it's lost in translation. What we mean to convey in text doesn't always communicate exactly how it's meant to be read.

One suggestion that has worked very effectively for me is to Invite Along.

Let's say that you'd like to meet XYZ Girl on a Tuesday night around 9pm for drinks. Instead of doing this:

You: "How is Tues or Wed for drinks around 9p?"

Do this:

You: "gonna chill out with a drink Tues nite around 9sh at Joe's Bar. Join me"

Now the illusion is on your side. You know that you're setting up a date, but to her she reads that as you having Plans regardless of her decision, which is part of the process of turning the tables on her.

Girls are used to having the Yes/No Frame when it comes to being asked out. They are the Deciders of the Date.

Part of successful text game is being the one who decides, but doing it in a manner which isn't obvious to her.

If she rejects the offer, due to legit schedule conflicts, or lack of interest, the ball is now in her court whether to suggest a different night.

I live in Flake City (Los Angeles) and using this formula has drastically reduced the Flake Rate for myself.

Also, have it in your mind one of three things:

1. Send that text to 2-3 girls. Odds are, one will bite. IF they all flake, already have it decided that you're going to do something else, whether that is to swing by Joe's Bar and solo game or you have a backup backup date planned.

2. If one flakes and the other pulls through, then it doesn't matter you still were successful in lining up a date.

3. If you are digging one of the two girls more and they both commit, then you flip the table and flake on the girl that you are LEAST into.

I cannot tell you how effective Flaking First is. It is very effective because it shows you are a busy man who is in demand.

A girl's hamster will run like a track athlete at the Olympics and her Competitive Factor will kick in and she will feel the need to reschedule, if for nothing else, but to validate herself again.

Thanks, I will start testing this texting approach next. I worry about the lack of anti-flaking defense not arranging the venue the day of might cause, but I'm willing to see what happens.

Although the main problem is me only having 300 to 400 approaches under my belt and still being a novice, which is likely causing these occasional flakes due to not building a strong enough connection with zero doubt in her mind. That still leaves the odd case where the girl will give notice ahead of time (at least a polite 6+ hrs) that she might flake for work or "can we reschedule for tomorrow. I gotta babysit my nephew tonight til 930. Unless u wanna wait"

I just want some simple rules of engagement for these instances. Complete silence, "-5 points", "k", "another time", etc?

[WestIndianArchie]

(01-27-2014 05:05 PM)Ferro Wrote:  

Quote:

"Alright well, just a heads up. I have a call in for work from 6-10 so I have to call at 4 to see if they need me.
"I'll let u kno"

Does anyone have a good approach to these roadblocks that maximizes the chance they'll come out? Obviously aside from already having abundance and just scheduling another girl.

You newbs gonna learn some day. Details matter.

You really haven't given us a whole lot of information about this target/situation
- your age
- her age
- how you met
- what the logistics are
- what happened prior to you getting her # and setting up the meet

I'm betting that the real problem here is that she's not willing to drop everything in order to have meet with you. You didn't make that kind of impact on her. This is of course the gold standard, and you can't hit it every time. But you're apparently not the most important thing in her life...yet.

______________

My solution?

I've dated tons of waitresses and they have horrible hours.

BE AGGRESSIVE

"When you get off? Cool. I'ma come scoop you up, be ready. I got something planned. Put your heels in your bag."

She will either relent to your persistence, or offer a different form of resistance.

"i'm on my period" - "I'll put a towel down"
"my man just got back from prison" - "My place is fine"
"my kids won't be asleep" - "i'd love to hear you sing a lullaby"
"my house is dirty' - "we'll keep the lights off"

You'll get used to the common objections and have adequate answers as time goes by.

One thing you will notice is that very few girls will outright say, "I don't want to fuck YOU" Maybe that's how they feel, but at some point she wanted to fuck you, so she gave you her real information. That was her hindbrain/subconscious speaking. Her logical brain is like, "whoa, this is the 4th guy this month..."
....


Now after you get your 2nd objection, you have to ask yourself what's more important
- is getting my dick wet the most important thing?
- is banging this particular specimen of woman hood the most important thing?

If it's just about pussy, BE AGGRESSIVE.

If you want this *particular* bitch badly, boner-itis, BE LESS AGGRESSIVE, BUT STILL BE AGGRESSIVE

Some chicks are flaky, but some chicks are on the fence.
Only experience tells you which is which.

If she's on the fence, ease back, keep it light, but GET ON OTHER HOES.
It's so easy dealing with Chick A, when Chick's B-F have drained your nutsack.

So to recap

1) any issue you have, give us a full breakdown of the situation
2) push for the meet, regardless of her obligations. If she's got time to sleep, she's got time to fuck.
3) Upon the 2nd bit of resistance, decide if you want the pussy, or you want the girl.
a) pussy - BE AGGRESSIVE
b) girl - GET ON OTHER CHICKS

WIA

[Mujeriego]

McQueen and WIA summed it up pretty well. I have a rule of not responding to flake texts if she doesn't offer a reschedule. I'd rather drum up new leads than waste time trying to convince a girl who's on the fence. In short, if she wants to meet up with you she'll make the effort.

[Valhalla]

I think if she flakes she's just not that interested enough.

no amount of chasing, text tricks, or anything will change her mind.

As a formerly persistent guy, my persistence very rarely paid off.

She's either in or out.

[speakeasy]

(01-27-2014 10:48 PM)Valhalla Wrote:  

I think if she flakes she's just not that interested enough.

no amount of chasing, text tricks, or anything will change her mind.

I was on a date with a girl last week and she was flakey as hell prior to this date and she finally met up. She admitted within the first minute of meeting that she was really nervous. She loosened up well as the night went on.

I bet a lot of flakiness comes down to girls just being nervous to go on dates. Even if they like you. It's the real deal, there's no phone screen to disguise any social ineptitude or lack of charm. I guess that's nerve-wracking for a lot of women. I admit too that I even feel a bit of nervousness before a first date. Not a paralyzing anxiety, but I'm wondering how it's going to go, whether there will be awkward pauses, whether she'll get my humor, etc. But for guys we have our horniness to motivate us. Women aren't as horny and if they are, they know that dick is available at any and all times to her, thus there's just no urgency on her part.

[Ferro]

Thanks WIA, that all sounds spot on.

- your age: 27
- her age: 20-21
- how you met: Yad stopped her and idated her at mall.
- what the logistics are: She lives at Uni about 30 mins away by bus from the main downtown bar&club avenue where I set the date at.
- what happened prior to you getting her # and setting up the meet: idated her in November then ping texted her till early January. Accidentally Yad stopped her a second time in the same mall recently and she had very receptive eyes so I pushed for date.

The one thing you hit spot on was wet dick vs boner-itis. I have done the right thing in wet dick times, but this is one of those boneritis times. She is part of a demographic that I want to explore: full-blown NE African. In fact curiously enough both advanced flake examples I gave were from NE African women.

For the boneritis solution, I take it I should: give a light push if this happens again (it may even cause her to accept the original time), and then if she resists again then just maybe text "gay" or just radio silence her and continue ping texting for another time?

[LeBeau]

(01-27-2014 11:28 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I bet a lot of flakiness comes down to girls just being nervous to go on dates. Even if they like you. It's the real deal, there's no phone screen to disguise any social ineptitude or lack of charm. I guess that's nerve-wracking for a lot of women. I admit too that I even feel a bit of nervousness before a first date. Not a paralyzing anxiety, but I'm wondering how it's going to go, whether there will be awkward pauses, whether she'll get my humor, etc. But for guys we have our horniness to motivate us. Women aren't as horny and if they are, they know that dick is available at any and all times to her, thus there's just no urgency on her part.

...

[AneroidOcean]

(01-27-2014 10:29 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

2) push for the meet, regardless of her obligations. If she's got time to sleep, she's got time to fuck.

WIA had lots of great stuff in his post, but I wanted to point this out as being so damn true. I've dated some VERY busy girls and despite their needing to get up for work 2-3 hours earlier than me, they never...not once complained about being kept up for a good dicking (or made late to work with morning sex) even in the first few dates.

[Ferro]

I actually just found this Chateau post that gives some other good solutions:

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/01/0...judging-2/

[Sebastian]

I like that used car dealer mindset! They will work with any sorts of issues you have.

I remember this. 'I cant....to be honest i havent shaved for a while'

'Asian girls dont shave'

'Oh...' (stopped resisting)

If you are other races, you can say 'i used to date asian girls....blahblah'