[Jackreacher]

Every now and then I'll reread this little essay written by Bob Black. It always reminds me or gives me a new reason to avoid work as much as I can until I can be completely done with work altogether in the near future. I don't agree with everything said but with a lot of it I do. I'm surprised more people don't just come to the same conclusions.

Here's a piece of the essay:

"The demeaning system of domination I’ve described rules over half the waking hours of a majority of women and the vast majority of men for decades, for most of their lifespans. For certain purposes it’s not too misleading to call our system democracy or capitalism or — better stil l— industrialism, but its real names are factory fascism and office oligarchy. Anybody who says these people are “free” is lying or stupid. You are what you do. If you do boring, stupid, monotonous work, chances are you’ll end up boring, stupid, and monotonous. Work is a much better explanation for the creeping cretinization all around us than even such significant moronizing mechanisms as television and education."

http://www.inspiracy.com/black/abolition...fwork.html

[cardguy]

Cool - I love thinking about shit like this.

Have saved the link and will post back when I read it.

Thanks for the article!

[roberto]

It's not by chance that many on here are self employed or if not then are viewing employment as a temporary measure to achieve a far greater standard of living in another country than the Western world will afford in a a few short years.

[cardguy]

To be honest - here in the UK we have reached the age of post-work.

You could spend a lifetime on benefits - and have a pretty good standard of living. And compared to how people lived 100 years ago - we are well into the "future where people don't have to work and robots do everything" that people once dreamed about. I guess a large part of this comes from the cheap goods that we can import from China. And we have free healthcare as well.

On top of that. A lot of jobs are 'make believe' jobs that only exist so that the government can clear a few people off the unemployment rolls for political purposes. And higher up the wage scale you have the weird realm of Dilbert style paper-shuffling employment where people create work for each other in order to keep everyone in a job.

At the moment - society cannot face up to the existential fact that a large section of workers could be fired tomorrow without it affecting productivity much. The same is true of the millions of teachers we have - which could easily be replaced by home study, textbooks and the internet.

The economy is floating on a sea of debt. And people need to be scared into 'going straight', and they need to be made terrified of being unemployed or bankrupt. In order to keep the economic system grinding onwards. But over time things will start to change as people realise that the only people propping up the system are those who have least incentive to do so.

The best writer in this area right now is David Graeber. He recently wrote a book on the history of Debt which was amazing. Here he is writing about the phenomenon of bullshit jobs:

https://libcom.org/library/phenomenon-bu...id-graeber

[Jackreacher]

(01-18-2014 02:47 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

To be honest - here in the UK we have reached the age of post-work.

You could spend a lifetime on benefits - and have a pretty good standard of living. And compared to how people lived 100 years ago - we are well into the "future where people don't have to work and robots do everything" that people once dreamed about. I guess a large part of this comes from the cheap goods that we can import from China. And we have free healthcare as well.

On top of that. A lot of jobs are 'make believe' jobs that only exist so that the government can clear a few people off the unemployment rolls for political purposes. And higher up the wage scale you have the weird realm of Dilbert style paper-shuffling employment where people create work for each other in order to keep everyone in a job.

At the moment - society cannot face up to the existential fact that a large section of workers could be fired tomorrow without it affecting productivity much. The same is true of the millions of teachers we have - which could easily be replaced by home study, textbooks and the internet.

The economy is floating on a sea of debt. And people need to be scared into 'going straight', and they need to be made terrified of being unemployed or bankrupt. In order to keep the economic system grinding onwards. But over time things will start to change as people realise that the only people propping up the system are those who have least incentive to do so.

The best writer in this area right now is David Graeber. He recently wrote a book on the history of Debt which was amazing. Here he is writing about the phenomenon of bullshit jobs:

https://libcom.org/library/phenomenon-bu...id-graeber

Unless you're dead set on living in a specific place where things are pricier a lot of it just comes down to choosing a place that lets you save the most cash possible. It's totally possible to spend 10k or less a year in some places and live like a king. I have so much time to myself, I find people are always busy working it's funny but I end up lying to most people about what I do because "nothing" just doesn't sound so appealing to most people.

[cardguy]

Quote:

On the first morning in her first job at the regional council of Aquitaine, she immediately felt there was something very wrong. Her first task took her an hour, but she was told it was a week's work.

"It was a sheer waste of time. There are plenty of people and not enough work. So there are a lot of people who have nothing to do," she says. "They go on Facebook, they chat, they go to endless meetings and spend a lot of their day complaining about being overworked."

Writing under a pen name Zoé Shepherd, she started a blog documenting the daily grind of not having enough to do. Her blog picked up hundreds of followers from all over France, many also languishing in dusty corners of government with not enough to do.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/ma...-workforce

[Teedub]

(01-18-2014 02:47 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

To be honest - here in the UK we have reached the age of post-work.

You could spend a lifetime on benefits - and have a pretty good standard of living. And compared to how people lived 100 years ago - we are well into the "future where people don't have to work and robots do everything" that people once dreamed about. I guess a large part of this comes from the cheap goods that we can import from China. And we have free healthcare as well.

On top of that. A lot of jobs are 'make believe' jobs that only exist so that the government can clear a few people off the unemployment rolls for political purposes. And higher up the wage scale you have the weird realm of Dilbert style paper-shuffling employment where people create work for each other in order to keep everyone in a job.

At the moment - society cannot face up to the existential fact that a large section of workers could be fired tomorrow without it affecting productivity much. The same is true of the millions of teachers we have - which could easily be replaced by home study, textbooks and the internet.

The economy is floating on a sea of debt. And people need to be scared into 'going straight', and they need to be made terrified of being unemployed or bankrupt. In order to keep the economic system grinding onwards. But over time things will start to change as people realise that the only people propping up the system are those who have least incentive to do so.

The best writer in this area right now is David Graeber. He recently wrote a book on the history of Debt which was amazing. Here he is writing about the phenomenon of bullshit jobs:

https://libcom.org/library/phenomenon-bu...id-graeber

Agreed on bullshit jobs. However as for the "free health care"...it's only going to be free for those out of work as long as enough people are in work to pay for it.

It's why I think Scandinavia's welfare model will self destruct. I think people don't mind paying in for their 'own people' so to speak. When they realize they're paying for people who are completely alien to their society, that's when the trouble starts. That's the main problem with Western European multiculturalism, the welfare model is based on a "lets pull together" thing, at least Britain's NHS was due to post war collective feeling. When there is no longer a collective culture, things begin to fragment.

Sorry to the OP for derailing the thread.

[Beyond Borders]

(01-27-2014 04:18 PM)Jackreacher Wrote:  

Unless you're dead set on living in a specific place where things are pricier a lot of it just comes down to choosing a place that lets you save the most cash possible. It's totally possible to spend 10k or less a year in some places and live like a king. I have so much time to myself, I find people are always busy working it's funny but I end up lying to most people about what I do because "nothing" just doesn't sound so appealing to most people.

jackreacher do you follow the early retirement extreme guy at all? If not, I think you would like his stuff.

[cardguy]

@Teedub - easy way to save money in health care. Fire all the GPs. They are useless.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/ma...a-busy-gp/

[Teedub]

^ Tell me about it. I have 2 disc protrusions in my lower back. I finally said "this is enough" or words to that effect, my GP said "OK, I'll put you top of the list to speak to an orthopedic specialist"... The earliest appointment is fucking June. I won't even be in England anymore by then!

Edit - That's more of a slam to the NHS than to any GP's. I agree with universal health care, but the UK does it worse than loads of other places.

[Vroom]

I cant stand the cunts, and there are quite a few of them, who say things like "If I won the lottery, I would keep working. I wouldn't know what to do with all the time on my hands!" Some of them try to justify it by saying "oh you can't retire on a million dollars. It doesn't go far these days"

If you can't think of anything to do preferable to going to work, or how to retool your life so that a milllion fucking dollars can last you, you must be fucking braindead. Lounging on a tropical beach, reading a book and sipping a long island iced tea? Nah fk that, I'd rather be at work.

[cardguy]

Yeah - I can't stand those people either.

Somebody I worked with bitched and moaned everyday about work.

Then she retired.

Three months later - I heard she was bitching and moaning about being retired.

Guess some people just like to bitch and moan.

[Surreyman]

(01-27-2014 06:28 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

Guess some people just like to bitch and moan.

We call them English people.

This is a country that moans FAR too much, about any shit they can think of.

What happened to 'musn't grumble'?

It's always losers as well. People who don't sort their lives out.

[cardguy]

Definitely.

I am sure this never used to be the case. But it is a national trait now. People just whinging. 'Question Time' on BBC One is a good example of this.

[Jackreacher]

(01-27-2014 05:46 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(01-27-2014 04:18 PM)Jackreacher Wrote:  

Unless you're dead set on living in a specific place where things are pricier a lot of it just comes down to choosing a place that lets you save the most cash possible. It's totally possible to spend 10k or less a year in some places and live like a king. I have so much time to myself, I find people are always busy working it's funny but I end up lying to most people about what I do because "nothing" just doesn't sound so appealing to most people.

jackreacher do you follow the early retirement extreme guy at all? If not, I think you would like his stuff.

Thanks man, I just did a quick google search and found his blog I'm reading some of it right now.

[Beyond Borders]

(01-27-2014 07:24 PM)Jackreacher Wrote:  

(01-27-2014 05:46 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(01-27-2014 04:18 PM)Jackreacher Wrote:  

Unless you're dead set on living in a specific place where things are pricier a lot of it just comes down to choosing a place that lets you save the most cash possible. It's totally possible to spend 10k or less a year in some places and live like a king. I have so much time to myself, I find people are always busy working it's funny but I end up lying to most people about what I do because "nothing" just doesn't sound so appealing to most people.

jackreacher do you follow the early retirement extreme guy at all? If not, I think you would like his stuff.

Thanks man, I just did a quick google search and found his blog I'm reading some of it right now.

Pick up his book. It's solid. I've recommended it to quite a few people.

[roberto]

(01-27-2014 06:26 PM)Vroom Wrote:  

I cant stand the cunts, and there are quite a few of them, who say things like "If I won the lottery, I would keep working. I wouldn't know what to do with all the time on my hands!" Some of them try to justify it by saying "oh you can't retire on a million dollars. It doesn't go far these days"

If you can't think of anything to do preferable to going to work, or how to retool your life so that a milllion fucking dollars can last you, you must be fucking braindead. Lounging on a tropical beach, reading a book and sipping a long island iced tea? Nah fk that, I'd rather be at work.

If I won the lottery (which I won't, because it's a tax on stupid people ) then I sure as hell would keep working.

I work for myself, and I don't even look at it as work. If I won a million, I'd set about turning it into ten million. Yeah, a few more holidays, sure. But paid for out of the proceeds!

If you won that million dollars, you'd need to invest it to provide the best return. Suddenly, your job is an investor. Sure, you'd quit the dead end 9-5. But then why are you even in a dead end 9-5? That's hypothetical BTW, I have no clue as to your situation.

I don't think many people on this board would win a million, then just sit back. They'd find some side hustles, have some fun with it and make more money.

Must just be the way I'm wired.

[Dr. Howard]

(01-27-2014 06:26 PM)Vroom Wrote:  

I cant stand the cunts, and there are quite a few of them, who say things like "If I won the lottery, I would keep working. I wouldn't know what to do with all the time on my hands!" Some of them try to justify it by saying "oh you can't retire on a million dollars. It doesn't go far these days"

If you can't think of anything to do preferable to going to work, or how to retool your life so that a milllion fucking dollars can last you, you must be fucking braindead. Lounging on a tropical beach, reading a book and sipping a long island iced tea? Nah fk that, I'd rather be at work.

I like my 'work' (self employed) that much. Being able to peer into the finances of hundreds of startups, help people succeed and learn from their successes is amazing education and they are paying me for it. Would a successful artist put down their brush just because they won the lottery?

Granted, if I had further finances I'd just fire clients more often but thats a minor gripe.

[cardguy]

@roberto - I agree to be honest. Even though I would love to stop working. There are few small business ideas - that may not even be profitable - which I would definitely like to fund. Mainly based around publishing books. So - I would probably head down that road if I had the money.

[Jackreacher]

I think that's the big thing for me. Once you got what you need, your transportation covered, roof over head, check, food on the table, got it, little bits of nice things to keep me entertained and active that signals the end of the hustle. No longer will my motivation be towards the mighty dollar. Maybe there's an opening to profit sure, but whatever I do it will be the best and solely for my enjoyment if it happens to make a ton of cash it was by mere happenstance, otherwise I'm shortcutting once again towards riches and I've always found that once I'm doing something for money I lose most of the pleasure from the activity. I can't explain why, it really shouldn't be that way but it is.

[Vroom]

(01-28-2014 07:13 AM)roberto Wrote:  

(01-27-2014 06:26 PM)Vroom Wrote:  

I cant stand the cunts, and there are quite a few of them, who say things like "If I won the lottery, I would keep working. I wouldn't know what to do with all the time on my hands!" Some of them try to justify it by saying "oh you can't retire on a million dollars. It doesn't go far these days"

If you can't think of anything to do preferable to going to work, or how to retool your life so that a milllion fucking dollars can last you, you must be fucking braindead. Lounging on a tropical beach, reading a book and sipping a long island iced tea? Nah fk that, I'd rather be at work.

If I won the lottery (which I won't, because it's a tax on stupid people ) then I sure as hell would keep working.

I work for myself, and I don't even look at it as work. If I won a million, I'd set about turning it into ten million. Yeah, a few more holidays, sure. But paid for out of the proceeds!

If you won that million dollars, you'd need to invest it to provide the best return. Suddenly, your job is an investor. Sure, you'd quit the dead end 9-5. But then why are you even in a dead end 9-5? That's hypothetical BTW, I have no clue as to your situation.

I don't think many people on this board would win a million, then just sit back. They'd find some side hustles, have some fun with it and make more money.

Must just be the way I'm wired.

The point of that little rant, was that these aren't people working for themselves, aren't "following their passion". They mightn't hate their job, but whatever way you look at it, winning a million bucks is a game changer. You don't have to cash out there and then, but it opens up so many more possibilities. What they're essentially saying, is that they can't even envision anything better than their current situation, and that's fucking sad.

[roberto]

(01-28-2014 11:37 PM)Vroom Wrote:  

The point of that little rant, was that these aren't people working for themselves, aren't "following their passion". They mightn't hate their job, but whatever way you look at it, winning a million bucks is a game changer. You don't have to cash out there and then, but it opens up so many more possibilities. What they're essentially saying, is that they can't even envision anything better than their current situation, and that's fucking sad.

Gotcha. Yeah, the membership of this board are looking at such a situation through the prism of their higher intelligence. To have a brain that needs no stimuli beside a 9-5 and a TV dinner, and maybe a night out once a week, I can't even begin to imagine what that's like.

I get what you say, and it is indeed fucking sad. But hey, ours not to reason why, ours to make a fast buck outta them

[cardguy]

I think it must be so much fun to run a niche business without the worry of making money.

That is something that having a million pounds would allow me.

And even better - there is always the chance you might stumble across something (eg the next Harry Potter) which would make you billions.

[cardguy]

David Graeber writes alot in areas surrounding the topic disussed in this thread.

He has a recent essay which might be of interest about the importance and value of play not just to humans - but to all life.

http://thebaffler.com/past/whats_the_poi...t_have_fun

I am a huge fan of David Graeber. He is the most interesting writer I have come across in the past few years.