[vinman]

Government Demands Colleges Expel Students Without Due Process

The Community of the Wrongly Accused blog reported today on a story in Virginia where a bill has been introduced to allow college students accused of sexual assault to be allowed the right to a lawyer to help defend themselves. In 2011, the Department of Education handed down a ruling that demands colleges find students guilty of sexual assault based on a “preponderance of the evidence” rather than convictions based on “beyond a reasonable doubt.” Students are currently not allowed to have a lawyer represent them at college hearings.
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The bill introduced by Delegate Rick Morris would grant students facing disciplinary hearings the right to be represented by an attorney or an advocate that they choose. The COTWA blog believes there’ll be a big fight over it considering what happened when similar legislation was introduced in North Carolina last year.

From COTWA:

Lynn Roeder, Dean of Students at East Carolina, said she that adding attorneys to the disciplinary process would take away an opportunity for students to learn from their mistakes. She said: “‘The whole process is not to be adversarial . . . . We know students make mistakes and what we want to do it make sure we’re able to help them make better decisions so that’s why we never had lawyers.’”

How do you know a student made a “mistake” without a fair hearing, Ms. Roeder? Wait. It gets better:

“A key component of the developmental process of responding to student misconduct is for the student to take responsibility for their own behavior and to learn from the incident,” said Bill Haggard, vice chancellor for student affairs at the University of North Carolina at Asheville. “Part of that learning experience is being able to speak on their own behalf, take responsibility for their own behaviors and engage in a conversation about changing their behavior in the future.”

That will be a whole lot less likely, officials say, if students have a lawyer speaking for them.

“It’s obviously something that most student affairs professionals are not that crazy about,” Haggard said.The problem with these assertions is that they assume the student accused of the offense must be guilty. After all, an innocent student shouldn’t be forced to “take responsibility for his own behaviors” or “change” his behavior “in the future,” should he? Mr. Haggard has it exactly backwards: the university should have a fair hearing first, and only if the evidence supports a finding of guilt should there then be a “conversation about changing . . . behaviors.”

Other “concerns” expressed about having a lawyer present: “Officials worry that changing the rules will drag out the length of proceedings — by who knows how long, if attorneys are able to do things like motion for stays . . . .” And: “It raises lots of potential questions and problems and it makes what is an educational and administrative process now into a quasi-courtroom.”



Read more at TLR: Colleges Worried That Men Accused of Sexual Assault Might Receive Due Process | The Libertarian Republic http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/colleg...z2qgOBTfEU
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[Truth Teller]

Seeing as how I go to college in Virginia... this is highly important to me. My college (like so many others) basically states that there's no due process at all and that you're forced to represent yourself in front of a conduct council. Technically speaking, this is unconstitutional. However, since it's generally kept pretty quiet (and part of Title IX), the left-wing nut jobs won't yell about it.

[kinjutsu]

I've never been too interested in the politics with male/female relations and fighting feminism but false rape non-sense gets me every time.

It's so sad to see this type of thing happen.
I couldn't imagine being the dude in these scenarios with no real way to fight against it.

[commiejoe]

Do the colleges keep the tuition if a person is kicked out?

[eradicator]

(01-17-2014 03:21 PM)commiejoe Wrote:  

Do the colleges keep the tuition if a person is kicked out?

of course?

Think about it, if you are taking a class, get kicked out halfway through, it's not like they can bring in someone else to take your spot in the class, they would have missed half the class.

But that isn't what you should be upset about, be upset about the current setup: right now you can commit no crime, go get drink at a party, have a drunk chick drag you back to her room and fuck you and cry rape later and then you get kicked out of school for it and have no way to defend yourself.

[Daddy]

"The whole process is not to be adversarial . . . . We know students make mistakes and what we want to do it make sure we’re able to help them make better decisions"

Yes, getting accused of being a rapist in front of all your friends and family is not adversarial.

[Dr. Howard]

Well it seems like it is more advantageous to just fake being a college student and party on campus. You at least have a real trial if accused and what is the university going to do besides ban you from campus?

[j r]

Quote:

"The whole process is not to be adversarial . . . . We know students make mistakes and what we want to do it make sure we’re able to help them make better decisions"

She sounds exactly like a cop working over a suspect.

[Yeti]

Students at state (public) schools are protected by the American constitution when their schools try to kick them out. For example, any University of California school like UC Berkeley or UCLA.
Though there are due process concerns, there is a lower degree of due process accorded by the constitution than there would be in a criminal trial, for example.

If I knew more about that area of the law and if it were in NY, where I'm licensed to practice, I'd consider defending some poor men myself...

If it's a private school, the government has much less say in how the school can expel its students. Private schools essentially have carte blanche in who gets to attend. For example, Harvard or Duke.

I am considering getting into divorce law to help save men who deserve better than suffering the wrath of our courts.

[Tytalus]

At least someone is recognizing what's going on in the colleges. I'm not sure if Canada is any better.

[Jackreacher]

It'll change once it's just chicks in college and university's are churning out useless degrees as rolls of toilet paper so society can properly wipe their ass with them.

I think the Internet is going to be the new college in a decade for 90% of classes leaving the remaiming 10% to classes that require a more hands on approach to learning.

[Duke Castile]

Is there some organization that helps with legal bills for these people that are falsely accused?

[Parlay44]

The only answer is separation of the sexes in the school environment. You can still meet and bang these bitches in the local bars. You're just taking the power away from the school board. It'll be a legal issue at that point dealt with in court instead of by a school counsel.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(01-18-2014 10:29 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

Is there some organization that helps with legal bills for these people that are falsely accused?

Good question.

http://www.cotwa.info/ (the site that the OP refers to) is generally a great resource for anyone interested in false rape accusations and helping the falsely accused. But I'm not sure if there is anything there regarding legal fees. There should be something like that.

[JohnKreese]

So I'm an 18 year-old kid who is working construction instead of at college. I am accused of something, I get a real trial with a real lawyer because, hey, I'm not in college; it doesn't need to be a "learning process" and I don't know shit about the legal system/procedure. I get off because prosecution needed to convince the jury to "without a shadow of doubt". I'm out a few grand, but I have the opportunity to counter-sue for defamation and legal fees.

or

I'm an 18 year-old kid who is a freshman at college. I get accused of something, I get some bullshit, "hearing" (meanwhile, the REAL police/legal system did not even deem there to be enough evidence to make an arrest, yet alone go to trial) where I have to defend myself without a lawyer because, hey, I AM in college, it has to be a "learning process" (but I still don't know shit about the legal system/legal procedure). I'm kicked out of school because the "3-member tribunal of my peers" ruled against me because there was, in their EXPERT, 3rd year, (poly sci/pre-law) opinions, a "preponderance of the evidence" against me.

What fucking sense does this make??!!

[Suits]

(01-18-2014 10:21 AM)Jackreacher Wrote:  

It'll change once it's just chicks in college and university's are churning out useless degrees as rolls of toilet paper so society can properly wipe their ass with them.

Don't be so sure.





It's going to take more than a college degree if these two sexy coeds are going to wipe properly. They'll find one of these more useful than a college degree, although the two of them should work together in reasonable harmony.