[Isaac Jordan]

(01-07-2015 12:37 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

Does anyone have a link to watch this film online?

http://www.putlocker.tw/watch-divorce-co...-2014.html

[whateverfuckit]

(01-07-2015 07:15 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

[quote='Vacancier Permanent' pid='924450' dateline='1420609042']
Does anyone have a link to watch this film online?

The film is now on Netflix. I just watched it....it's VERY good.

They even compare the US divorce process to Scandinavia (of all places). Basically, since Judges run campaigns, which are paid for by divorce lawyers, a lot of the time, hiring the right lawyer essentially seals the deal in a divorce case (because his law firm contributed the most to his campaign, and will continue to contribute when the judge runs for re-election.)

Here's the Netflix link to watch it from your PC:

http://www.netflix.com/title/70298453

[emuelle1]

I'll have to watch it.

The "Divorce Industrial Complex" is very powerful, and there's a lot of money to be made in it. When my ex wanted a divorce, I was terrified of it. She found this "divorce mediator", basically an attorney who "helps" you do a pro se divorce. He charged $360 an hour, which at the time sounded reasonable for drawing up some papers and filing them. Until he found more than $20,000 worth of hours to charge for. And it kept dragging out. It wasn't until I ran out of money and maxed out my credit cards and told him if he charges another dollar, he is going to have to rewrite the agreement to state that she has to find a way to pay for it that he offered to do it pro bono and all of a sudden the work got done, the case scheduled, and the divorce granted.

And some of the charges were ridiculous. He charged me over $1000 for supposedly calling my retirement, but there was no evidence he did anything for it. He didn't offer anything for how to handle it. I had to do all that work.

And lawyers wonder why people hate them.

[whateverfuckit]

(10-05-2015 07:26 PM)emuelle1 Wrote:  

Until he found more than $20,000 worth of hours to charge for. And it kept dragging out. It wasn't until I ran out of money and maxed out my credit cards and told him if he charges another dollar, he is going to have to rewrite the agreement to state that she has to find a way to pay for it that he offered to do it pro bono and all of a sudden the work got done, the case scheduled, and the divorce granted.

And some of the charges were ridiculous. He charged me over $1000 for supposedly calling my retirement, but there was no evidence he did anything for it. He didn't offer anything for how to handle it. I had to do all that work.

Thats exactly what the film goes over. Basically, divorce lawyers convince a woman that she can get more money by drawing the divorce out. The thing is, jokes on her, because the lawyer keeps billing until the assets hit $0. It's VERY cut-throat. Even the most "red-pill" views will find themselves shocked at how deep and dirty this is, right down to our Judicial sector. There was a gay guy who was openly into BDSM who was appointed BY A JUDGE as the person to determine which parent was most fit to take care of a child. He was on the film, and admitted openly that the system was corrupt.

[Sexus]

I have this vid on my netflix radar. Perhaps I will watch it tonight and report back if anything significant to tell crops up. I went through a couple of family court conflagrations from 2001-2011. Tales are one thing, wisdom is another.

[JayR]

(10-06-2015 06:14 PM)Sexus Wrote:  

I have this vid on my netflix radar. Perhaps I will watch it tonight and report back if anything significant to tell crops up. I went through a couple of family court conflagrations from 2001-2011. Tales are one thing, wisdom is another.

I have been in and out of Family Court since before my kid was born in 1996 until last year. That's right, the BPD leech I rawdogged 20 years ago was still angling for cash a year after my kid had aged out of the system and was enrolled in college courses that I (and only I) am paying for!

I saw "Divorce, Corp." in the theater, and yes, I say from unmarried father experience, Family Court is as bad or worse than they make it out to be in the documentary.

I recommend this movie to every male friend I have. Most people don't understand how corrupt and unfair the divorce racket is until they are embroiled in it, and by then it is too late.

[Disco_Volante]

Holy shit that was bad. If I were that Scandanavian guy I would've killed that judge.

We think we can outsmart the marriage laws by not getting married, they will grow the common law marriage laws and enact more bachelor taxes like obamacare. And like we've seen, even having a drunk girl at your party is enough for the legal system to bend you over.

I want to get a vasectomy now.

[emuelle1]

(10-06-2015 05:39 PM)whateverfuckit Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 07:26 PM)emuelle1 Wrote:  

Until he found more than $20,000 worth of hours to charge for. And it kept dragging out. It wasn't until I ran out of money and maxed out my credit cards and told him if he charges another dollar, he is going to have to rewrite the agreement to state that she has to find a way to pay for it that he offered to do it pro bono and all of a sudden the work got done, the case scheduled, and the divorce granted.

And some of the charges were ridiculous. He charged me over $1000 for supposedly calling my retirement, but there was no evidence he did anything for it. He didn't offer anything for how to handle it. I had to do all that work.

Thats exactly what the film goes over. Basically, divorce lawyers convince a woman that she can get more money by drawing the divorce out. The thing is, jokes on her, because the lawyer keeps billing until the assets hit $0. It's VERY cut-throat. Even the most "red-pill" views will find themselves shocked at how deep and dirty this is, right down to our Judicial sector. There was a gay guy who was openly into BDSM who was appointed BY A JUDGE as the person to determine which parent was most fit to take care of a child. He was on the film, and admitted openly that the system was corrupt.

Exactly. I had over $7000 in savings when my ex initiated the divorce. She expected to get half of that. Joke was on her. I didn't have enough left in savings after it was over to buy a cup of coffee, much less give her half. I think I had it written in the agreement that if I had more than 1k left in savings, she could get half. I copied and pasted that section in my response to her request for half the savings.

I was glad when that was over.

The thing that killed me is, after driving away from that "mediator" (blood sucking parasite lawyer) and shelling out over $1300 for a single meeting, she wanted me to pay for DirectTV and give her $50 for a wedding present for her cousin. I asked if she was even paying attention (and somehow refrained from adding "you stupid bitch"). I told her to tell her cousin she can't afford a present because all the family money was spent on her fucking divorce. I called it hers at the time, but two years later, I find being set free from her is the best thing that ever happened to me.

I also came to the conclusion that we need to cut the "divorce industrial complex" out of the equation. If we're going to have "no-fault" divorce that can be initiated and granted for any reason, then it should be at least as easy and inexpensive to get a divorce as it is to get a marriage license. $35 and fill out a form at the county clerk or something. Period.

[Merenguero]

I don't even know where to start with some of the comments here. There have been some really off-base comments regarding family law here lately. Criminal cases need to be tried. First thing tomorrow morning, I start the biggest criminal trial of my career. Family law cases need to be worked out. Anybody who doesn't make any and all efforts to work cases out is incredibly stupid and it's no wonder that they often get results in their cases that they don't like. The way it's done (the real way it's done is to either avoid getting married or if you must get married to make sure to marry someone with whom your chances of getting divorced are minimal) is to have a civil discussion with the person from whom you are getting divorced and to enter into a full agreement regarding custody, child support, and property (if there is any. There usually isn't). If everything is worked out, both sides should hire attorneys to put everything in writing. The same attorney can't be used to represent both sides. It is a direct conflict of interest. Once the agreement is put in writing, you may then be able to proceed on an uncontested divorce.

If someone is too stupid to proceed that way, you must hire a competent lawyer to litigate a divorce case. Many, many cases start out contested, but are then worked out. You have to find a lawyer who is neither scared nor unable to try cases, in case the case goes to trial. Do your research. Find out who answers and/or returns phone calls. Find out who will meet with you at any time. Find out who can handle himself on his feet. Find out who doesn't overbill people. How do you find out who overbills? Check out who has been disciplined by the state licensing authority. Why do you think some lawyers have ethics problems? Who do you think files the bar complaints? This is the kind of stuff your friends who get "divorce raped" and "taken for a ride" by lawyers probably don't tell you and even more likely, don't know. Ethics problems happen because clients are pissed off about being ripped off. Plain and simple. They think they were overcharged and were quite possibly sued by lawyers and file these complaints in retaliation. If the ethics commission (the name of the agency varies from state to state) sees a particular lawyers name enough times, they will very likely start to take some action against him. They will also likely uncover other ethics violations when they are investigating the one about the person who felt ripped off. Ask people you trust if the lawyer who represented them in their divorce charged a reasonable fee or ripped them off. If you don't do your due diligence, you have no one to blame but yourself. I will say this. I've been doing this for a while and have never even seen a bar complaint. I don't even know what one looks like. Why not? Because I answer the phone, promptly return phone calls when I can't answer the phone, and never make people feel like they are being ripped off.

[emuelle1]

(10-07-2015 06:50 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

I don't even know where to start with some of the comments here. There have been some really off-base comments regarding family law here lately. Criminal cases need to be tried. First thing tomorrow morning, I start the biggest criminal trial of my career. Family law cases need to be worked out. Anybody who doesn't make any and all efforts to work cases out is incredibly stupid and it's no wonder that they often get results in their cases that they don't like. The way it's done (the real way it's done is to either avoid getting married or if you must get married to make sure to marry someone with whom your chances of getting divorced are minimal) is to have a civil discussion with the person from whom you are getting divorced and to enter into a full agreement regarding custody, child support, and property (if there is any. There usually isn't). If everything is worked out, both sides should hire attorneys to put everything in writing. The same attorney can't be used to represent both sides. It is a direct conflict of interest. Once the agreement is put in writing, you may then be able to proceed on an uncontested divorce.

If someone is too stupid to proceed that way, you must hire a competent lawyer to litigate a divorce case. Many, many cases start out contested, but are then worked out. You have to find a lawyer who is neither scared nor unable to try cases, in case the case goes to trial. Do your research. Find out who answers and/or returns phone calls. Find out who will meet with you at any time. Find out who can handle himself on his feet. Find out who doesn't overbill people. How do you find out who overbills? Check out who has been disciplined by the state licensing authority. Why do you think some lawyers have ethics problems? Who do you think files the bar complaints? This is the kind of stuff your friends who get "divorce raped" and "taken for a ride" by lawyers probably don't tell you and even more likely, don't know. Ethics problems happen because clients are pissed off about being ripped off. Plain and simple. They think they were overcharged and were quite possibly sued by lawyers and file these complaints in retaliation. If the ethics commission (the name of the agency varies from state to state) sees a particular lawyers name enough times, they will very likely start to take some action against him. They will also likely uncover other ethics violations when they are investigating the one about the person who felt ripped off. Ask people you trust if the lawyer who represented them in their divorce charged a reasonable fee or ripped them off. If you don't do your due diligence, you have no one to blame but yourself. I will say this. I've been doing this for a while and have never even seen a bar complaint. I don't even know what one looks like. Why not? Because I answer the phone, promptly return phone calls when I can't answer the phone, and never make people feel like they are being ripped off.

That's all well and good on paper. But when you're in the middle of it, suffering through the emotional hell and stress of it all, and of course trying to keep up with your own full time job with some bitch (who at the time you married her seemed unlikely to divorce you- it's not like they come with a label on their foreheads) demanding for the fastest possible divorce, who has the bandwidth to research, call lawyers, etc? It's not like your profession makes it easy for the rest of us. And a divorce is NOT a criminal issue, so I'm not even sure why that category got crossed in with the rest of your post.

Sure, all things being equal, we probably should spend fucking weeks contacting and interviewing lawyers, talking to friends, networking, and all that. But seriously, in real life, it doesn't work that way and most of us are out of our depths at the time. And every single lawyer promises to do it easy and cheap. The "divorce mediator" my ex chose said the same thing. Easy and cheap. Then months and $20,000 later, I found out it was neither, except compared to the $50,000-$60,000 bill he claimed bringing two lawyers into the equation would cost. Sure, it was relatively cheap and easy compared to that.

And our friends are all full of shit. None of my friends who had been through a divorce were ANY FUCKING USE to me when it came to advice. No matter how well intentioned.

[Merenguero]

(10-07-2015 07:02 PM)emuelle1 Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 06:50 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

I don't even know where to start with some of the comments here. There have been some really off-base comments regarding family law here lately. Criminal cases need to be tried. First thing tomorrow morning, I start the biggest criminal trial of my career. Family law cases need to be worked out. Anybody who doesn't make any and all efforts to work cases out is incredibly stupid and it's no wonder that they often get results in their cases that they don't like. The way it's done (the real way it's done is to either avoid getting married or if you must get married to make sure to marry someone with whom your chances of getting divorced are minimal) is to have a civil discussion with the person from whom you are getting divorced and to enter into a full agreement regarding custody, child support, and property (if there is any. There usually isn't). If everything is worked out, both sides should hire attorneys to put everything in writing. The same attorney can't be used to represent both sides. It is a direct conflict of interest. Once the agreement is put in writing, you may then be able to proceed on an uncontested divorce.

If someone is too stupid to proceed that way, you must hire a competent lawyer to litigate a divorce case. Many, many cases start out contested, but are then worked out. You have to find a lawyer who is neither scared nor unable to try cases, in case the case goes to trial. Do your research. Find out who answers and/or returns phone calls. Find out who will meet with you at any time. Find out who can handle himself on his feet. Find out who doesn't overbill people. How do you find out who overbills? Check out who has been disciplined by the state licensing authority. Why do you think some lawyers have ethics problems? Who do you think files the bar complaints? This is the kind of stuff your friends who get "divorce raped" and "taken for a ride" by lawyers probably don't tell you and even more likely, don't know. Ethics problems happen because clients are pissed off about being ripped off. Plain and simple. They think they were overcharged and were quite possibly sued by lawyers and file these complaints in retaliation. If the ethics commission (the name of the agency varies from state to state) sees a particular lawyers name enough times, they will very likely start to take some action against him. They will also likely uncover other ethics violations when they are investigating the one about the person who felt ripped off. Ask people you trust if the lawyer who represented them in their divorce charged a reasonable fee or ripped them off. If you don't do your due diligence, you have no one to blame but yourself. I will say this. I've been doing this for a while and have never even seen a bar complaint. I don't even know what one looks like. Why not? Because I answer the phone, promptly return phone calls when I can't answer the phone, and never make people feel like they are being ripped off.

That's all well and good on paper. But when you're in the middle of it, suffering through the emotional hell and stress of it all, and of course trying to keep up with your own full time job with some bitch (who at the time you married her seemed unlikely to divorce you- it's not like they come with a label on their foreheads) demanding for the fastest possible divorce, who has the bandwidth to research, call lawyers, etc? It's not like your profession makes it easy for the rest of us. And a divorce is NOT a criminal issue, so I'm not even sure why that category got crossed in with the rest of your post.

Sure, all things being equal, we probably should spend fucking weeks contacting and interviewing lawyers, talking to friends, networking, and all that. But seriously, in real life, it doesn't work that way and most of us are out of our depths at the time. And every single lawyer promises to do it easy and cheap. The "divorce mediator" my ex chose said the same thing. Easy and cheap. Then months and $20,000 later, I found out it was neither, except compared to the $50,000-$60,000 bill he claimed bringing two lawyers into the equation would cost. Sure, it was relatively cheap and easy compared to that.

And our friends are all full of shit. None of my friends who had been through a divorce were ANY FUCKING USE to me when it came to advice. No matter how well intentioned.

I'm pretty sure I know how things work "in real life." I've handled hundreds of divorces over the years. The only reason why I haven't handled more was that I've been concentrating more on criminal law for the last seven and a half years. I'll answer your rant with some questions. Did you check to see which lawyers had sued their clients and how often? That doesn't take "fucking weeks" to do. It may take an hour. That information should be online and should be accessible to the public. Did you search the website of the ethics department of the bar of the state where you live? That should take five minutes. When you called a lawyer, did a lawyer, not a secretary or paralegal, get on the phone and/or immediately return your call? A phone call takes a few minutes. Did you ask the lawyers you talked to for their cell numbers? Did they give you their cell numbers? Did you try to get a flat fee from any of them or did they say they would bill by the hour or were unable to give you an estimate as to how much they would charge? Did you go online to see if people were happy or pissed off (that's no holy grail, because often the lawyer himself and/or his family and friends post the positive reviews)? If you see any negative reviews, stay the hell away.

Divorce rape trolls. A new breed which has been all over the place lately.

Edit: I'm well aware that criminal cases are not divorce cases. I mentioned criminal cases, which need to be tried, in order to distinguish them from divorce cases, which need to be worked out.

[emuelle1]

(10-07-2015 07:12 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 07:02 PM)emuelle1 Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 06:50 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

I don't even know where to start with some of the comments here. There have been some really off-base comments regarding family law here lately. Criminal cases need to be tried. First thing tomorrow morning, I start the biggest criminal trial of my career. Family law cases need to be worked out. Anybody who doesn't make any and all efforts to work cases out is incredibly stupid and it's no wonder that they often get results in their cases that they don't like. The way it's done (the real way it's done is to either avoid getting married or if you must get married to make sure to marry someone with whom your chances of getting divorced are minimal) is to have a civil discussion with the person from whom you are getting divorced and to enter into a full agreement regarding custody, child support, and property (if there is any. There usually isn't). If everything is worked out, both sides should hire attorneys to put everything in writing. The same attorney can't be used to represent both sides. It is a direct conflict of interest. Once the agreement is put in writing, you may then be able to proceed on an uncontested divorce.

If someone is too stupid to proceed that way, you must hire a competent lawyer to litigate a divorce case. Many, many cases start out contested, but are then worked out. You have to find a lawyer who is neither scared nor unable to try cases, in case the case goes to trial. Do your research. Find out who answers and/or returns phone calls. Find out who will meet with you at any time. Find out who can handle himself on his feet. Find out who doesn't overbill people. How do you find out who overbills? Check out who has been disciplined by the state licensing authority. Why do you think some lawyers have ethics problems? Who do you think files the bar complaints? This is the kind of stuff your friends who get "divorce raped" and "taken for a ride" by lawyers probably don't tell you and even more likely, don't know. Ethics problems happen because clients are pissed off about being ripped off. Plain and simple. They think they were overcharged and were quite possibly sued by lawyers and file these complaints in retaliation. If the ethics commission (the name of the agency varies from state to state) sees a particular lawyers name enough times, they will very likely start to take some action against him. They will also likely uncover other ethics violations when they are investigating the one about the person who felt ripped off. Ask people you trust if the lawyer who represented them in their divorce charged a reasonable fee or ripped them off. If you don't do your due diligence, you have no one to blame but yourself. I will say this. I've been doing this for a while and have never even seen a bar complaint. I don't even know what one looks like. Why not? Because I answer the phone, promptly return phone calls when I can't answer the phone, and never make people feel like they are being ripped off.

That's all well and good on paper. But when you're in the middle of it, suffering through the emotional hell and stress of it all, and of course trying to keep up with your own full time job with some bitch (who at the time you married her seemed unlikely to divorce you- it's not like they come with a label on their foreheads) demanding for the fastest possible divorce, who has the bandwidth to research, call lawyers, etc? It's not like your profession makes it easy for the rest of us. And a divorce is NOT a criminal issue, so I'm not even sure why that category got crossed in with the rest of your post.

Sure, all things being equal, we probably should spend fucking weeks contacting and interviewing lawyers, talking to friends, networking, and all that. But seriously, in real life, it doesn't work that way and most of us are out of our depths at the time. And every single lawyer promises to do it easy and cheap. The "divorce mediator" my ex chose said the same thing. Easy and cheap. Then months and $20,000 later, I found out it was neither, except compared to the $50,000-$60,000 bill he claimed bringing two lawyers into the equation would cost. Sure, it was relatively cheap and easy compared to that.

And our friends are all full of shit. None of my friends who had been through a divorce were ANY FUCKING USE to me when it came to advice. No matter how well intentioned.

I'm pretty sure I know how things work "in real life." I've handled hundreds of divorces over the years. The only reason why I haven't handled more was that I've been concentrating more on criminal law for the last seven and a half years. I'll answer your rant with some questions. Did you check to see which lawyers had sued their clients and how often? That doesn't take "fucking weeks" to do. It may take an hour. That information should be online and should be accessible to the public. Did you search the website of the ethics department of the bar of the state where you live? That should take five minutes. When you called a lawyer, did a lawyer, not a secretary or paralegal, get on the phone and/or immediately return your call? A phone call takes a few minutes. Did you ask the lawyers you talked to for their cell numbers? Did they give you their cell numbers? Did you try to get a flat fee from any of them or did they say they would bill by the hour or were unable to give you an estimate as to how much they would charge? Did you go online to see if people were happy or pissed off (that's no holy grail, because often the lawyer himself and/or his family and friends post the positive reviews)? If you see any negative reviews, stay the hell away.

Divorce rape trolls. A new breed which has been all over the place lately.

Edit: I'm well aware that criminal cases are not divorce cases. I mentioned criminal cases, which need to be tried, in order to distinguish them from divorce cases, which need to be worked out.

Knock it off. Few of us who have been divorce raped are "trolls", especially in this forum. No, I did little research. I didn't want the divorce. I wanted to hold things together for the sake of my children. My ex is the one who wanted it, and I got sucked into the vortex. Yes, in a perfect world, I should have done more research. No, I didn't have your own knowledge of how things worked, because I'm not a lawyer, or expert in divorce law, nor do I have any desire to be.

Maybe you, as an apparent expert in the subject, should submit a post to this forum, or Return of Kings, to provide some useful information to men going through it. Calling us trolls or stupid after the fact is not helpful to any of us. It's not productive, and is little more than argumentative. None of what you've written here is useful to me two years later. I doubt it helps any other man on this forum who has been divorce raped at any point in time before your contributions to this thread.

[Merenguero]

(10-07-2015 07:56 PM)emuelle1 Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 07:12 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 07:02 PM)emuelle1 Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 06:50 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

I don't even know where to start with some of the comments here. There have been some really off-base comments regarding family law here lately. Criminal cases need to be tried. First thing tomorrow morning, I start the biggest criminal trial of my career. Family law cases need to be worked out. Anybody who doesn't make any and all efforts to work cases out is incredibly stupid and it's no wonder that they often get results in their cases that they don't like. The way it's done (the real way it's done is to either avoid getting married or if you must get married to make sure to marry someone with whom your chances of getting divorced are minimal) is to have a civil discussion with the person from whom you are getting divorced and to enter into a full agreement regarding custody, child support, and property (if there is any. There usually isn't). If everything is worked out, both sides should hire attorneys to put everything in writing. The same attorney can't be used to represent both sides. It is a direct conflict of interest. Once the agreement is put in writing, you may then be able to proceed on an uncontested divorce.

If someone is too stupid to proceed that way, you must hire a competent lawyer to litigate a divorce case. Many, many cases start out contested, but are then worked out. You have to find a lawyer who is neither scared nor unable to try cases, in case the case goes to trial. Do your research. Find out who answers and/or returns phone calls. Find out who will meet with you at any time. Find out who can handle himself on his feet. Find out who doesn't overbill people. How do you find out who overbills? Check out who has been disciplined by the state licensing authority. Why do you think some lawyers have ethics problems? Who do you think files the bar complaints? This is the kind of stuff your friends who get "divorce raped" and "taken for a ride" by lawyers probably don't tell you and even more likely, don't know. Ethics problems happen because clients are pissed off about being ripped off. Plain and simple. They think they were overcharged and were quite possibly sued by lawyers and file these complaints in retaliation. If the ethics commission (the name of the agency varies from state to state) sees a particular lawyers name enough times, they will very likely start to take some action against him. They will also likely uncover other ethics violations when they are investigating the one about the person who felt ripped off. Ask people you trust if the lawyer who represented them in their divorce charged a reasonable fee or ripped them off. If you don't do your due diligence, you have no one to blame but yourself. I will say this. I've been doing this for a while and have never even seen a bar complaint. I don't even know what one looks like. Why not? Because I answer the phone, promptly return phone calls when I can't answer the phone, and never make people feel like they are being ripped off.

That's all well and good on paper. But when you're in the middle of it, suffering through the emotional hell and stress of it all, and of course trying to keep up with your own full time job with some bitch (who at the time you married her seemed unlikely to divorce you- it's not like they come with a label on their foreheads) demanding for the fastest possible divorce, who has the bandwidth to research, call lawyers, etc? It's not like your profession makes it easy for the rest of us. And a divorce is NOT a criminal issue, so I'm not even sure why that category got crossed in with the rest of your post.

Sure, all things being equal, we probably should spend fucking weeks contacting and interviewing lawyers, talking to friends, networking, and all that. But seriously, in real life, it doesn't work that way and most of us are out of our depths at the time. And every single lawyer promises to do it easy and cheap. The "divorce mediator" my ex chose said the same thing. Easy and cheap. Then months and $20,000 later, I found out it was neither, except compared to the $50,000-$60,000 bill he claimed bringing two lawyers into the equation would cost. Sure, it was relatively cheap and easy compared to that.

And our friends are all full of shit. None of my friends who had been through a divorce were ANY FUCKING USE to me when it came to advice. No matter how well intentioned.

I'm pretty sure I know how things work "in real life." I've handled hundreds of divorces over the years. The only reason why I haven't handled more was that I've been concentrating more on criminal law for the last seven and a half years. I'll answer your rant with some questions. Did you check to see which lawyers had sued their clients and how often? That doesn't take "fucking weeks" to do. It may take an hour. That information should be online and should be accessible to the public. Did you search the website of the ethics department of the bar of the state where you live? That should take five minutes. When you called a lawyer, did a lawyer, not a secretary or paralegal, get on the phone and/or immediately return your call? A phone call takes a few minutes. Did you ask the lawyers you talked to for their cell numbers? Did they give you their cell numbers? Did you try to get a flat fee from any of them or did they say they would bill by the hour or were unable to give you an estimate as to how much they would charge? Did you go online to see if people were happy or pissed off (that's no holy grail, because often the lawyer himself and/or his family and friends post the positive reviews)? If you see any negative reviews, stay the hell away.

Divorce rape trolls. A new breed which has been all over the place lately.

Edit: I'm well aware that criminal cases are not divorce cases. I mentioned criminal cases, which need to be tried, in order to distinguish them from divorce cases, which need to be worked out.

Knock it off. Few of us who have been divorce raped are "trolls", especially in this forum. No, I did little research. I didn't want the divorce. I wanted to hold things together for the sake of my children. My ex is the one who wanted it, and I got sucked into the vortex. Yes, in a perfect world, I should have done more research. No, I didn't have your own knowledge of how things worked, because I'm not a lawyer, or expert in divorce law, nor do I have any desire to be.

Maybe you, as an apparent expert in the subject, should submit a post to this forum, or Return of Kings, to provide some useful information to men going through it. Calling us trolls or stupid after the fact is not helpful to any of us. It's not productive, and is little more than argumentative. None of what you've written here is useful to me two years later. I doubt it helps any other man on this forum who has been divorce raped at any point in time before your contributions to this thread.

Read my posts over the last three plus years. I have posted over and over again how to get as fair as possible of a result. Not everyone reads the forum or knows me, but those of us who do can read my posts, learn, and avoid the negative aspects of a divorce much more than those who are uninformed. Calm down, read my posts, and instead of being angry at me, try to figure out what you did wrong and try not to make the same mistakes that you made in the past.

[Menace]

Emuelle I went through mediation as well but mine cost a fraction of what yours did. What did you spend your time talking about ? Aside from custody issues, everything else is pretty much non-controversial. You just split 50/50 and that's it.

[Merenguero]

(10-07-2015 08:17 PM)Menace Wrote:  

Emuelle I went through mediation as well but mine cost a fraction of what yours did. What did you spend your time talking about ? Aside from custody issues, everything else is pretty much non-controversial. You just split 50/50 and that's it.

I obviously agree with all of this. He just seems really angry and is venting.

[Thoroughbred]

(10-07-2015 08:22 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 08:17 PM)Menace Wrote:  

Emuelle I went through mediation as well but mine cost a fraction of what yours did. What did you spend your time talking about ? Aside from custody issues, everything else is pretty much non-controversial. You just split 50/50 and that's it.

I obviously agree with all of this. He just seems really angry and is venting.

I think the real issue is no one not in the legal profession knows any of this upfront, and when you're neck deep the stress is clouding your clarity and judgement.

For example, prior to reading Merenguero's posts it would not have occurred to me to check which lawyers have sued their clients.

And that is some shit I would really want to know.

Divorce rape avoidance data sheet Merenguero? Could be one of the most important things some of us read. Or pass on to people less inclined to come here and more inclined to make poor marriage decisions who don't frequent these parts.

[Onto]

I understand where both Merenguero and emuelle1 are coming from. Thing is you're both right.

There are bad lawyers and there are good lawyers. I've experienced them both.

Lawyers believe the system is mostly fair and a logical process. Well, they have to believe that. After all, it's what they chose to do with their life so it's difficult for them to see or believe it could be quite the opposite for many people. When Merenguero complains about "divorce-trolls", this is where it comes from. It's also not happening to them and they don't have to pay or live with the outcomes. This fact does help with objectivity, but not so much with empathy.

Father's believe the system is unfair. For the most part, the Father's are right. Knowing this, Merenguero has always given good advice and I, as a Father, have given the same to others here. Stay out of court at all costs. That's really the only advice you need. The Family Court system will fuck you over again, and again, and again so stay out of it.

Family lawyers often get into it because they have unresolved family issues from their childhood. Women lawyers especially have an ax to grind with the Father and their profession gives them ample opportunity to swing at him all day. Even when they represent the man it feels good because they are making him pay.

Don't be angry with Merenguero, he's telling it like it is and from his point-of-view. Being a defense attorney is probably the noblest and most needed aspect of the law.

Prosecutor's are usually power-hungry assholes who project their own inner-criminal out onto the world to prosecute it. Not to say we don't need these people, but they are what they are.

A defense attorney protects the people who are often good people, but made a wrong decision. I've used both a family lawyer (several of them) and a defense attorney on separate occasions. The defense attorney is a very different kind of person, and I have a lot of respect for them.

Edit: The reason I needed a defense attorney was because my previous family lawyer pressed harassment charges against me. The scumbag ripped me off and of course I said and wrote some things to him in anger. That scumbag had a friend who was a state trooper and the trooper called me on the phone and determined I was a threat so the charges went forward. It was total bullshit since I was living NYC some 600 miles away from the guy. Anyways the defense lawyer helped protect me from the family lawyer and got the charges dropped. It cost me money, but the defense attorney did a good job for a fair price, though he did try to get more after it was over, but I don't think he ever expected me to pay that. He was just suggesting it. Either way, I only paid what we agreed on and nothing more, and that was the end of it.

[General Stalin]

I thought the doc was great if bot a little biased. Interesting how they were so focused on comparing American Family Court to Divorce policy in Sweden over and over again... Also thought it was a little unrealistic how they show just as many (more?) women going through the turmoil of Divorce compared to men when statistics show that women prevailingly initiate and perpetuate divorce trials - although near the beginning of the doc they do go on a pretty Red Pill tirade mentioning how the spike in divorce and destruction of traditional marriage is basically solely due to Women's liberation. Super left-leaning film but great nonetheless.

You could look at it as a propaganda piece to keep people from getting married and having families, or as a "scared straight" video for those of you still thinking about marriage in America. Either way it's an interesting doc, and pretty depressing.

[porscheguy]

When you have judges who cannot be held accountable for their actions, it should come as no surprise that many, especially those in family court, behave the way they do.

[JayR]

The PTSD from my 19-year custody battle against the ultimate adversary (a trust-funded BPD psycho allergic to work) is only now beginning to recede to the point I can comment objectively on "Divorce, Corp." and the issues it addresses.

For those interested in the issue, the best book I've read on it is "Taken Into Custody" by Stephen Baskerville.

http://www.amazon.com/Taken-Into-Custody...1581825943

If you're in the trenches of a scorched-earth campaign and your relationship with your kid(s) is at stake, the best tactical manual I've read is "Exposing The Corruption in Massachusetts Family Courts" by Kevin Thompson.

http://www.amazon.com/EXPOSING-CORRUPTIO...B00H5I6R6Q

A Massachusetts judge tried to ban this book (!), and I had to jump through hoops to get a paper copy at the time it came out, but it looks like Amendment 1 and the internet won out, and it's available as a PDF online now:

http://fathersforlife.org/doc/ebook-expo...ompson.pdf

Part I remember -- Thompson's Ex tried to increase her CS award by claiming rent expense of $1500/month paid to a landlord who was HER OWN MOTHER when he knew she was living rent-free in a house Grandma owned outright. Thompson subpoenaed Grandma's Tax returns and proved either A) Psycho ex wasn't paying rent at all (perjury) or B) Granny was committing tax fraud because she had reported $0 rental income.

My ex pulled this EXACT SAME THING.

For those who say "just stay out of family court," it is good advice. But it's not always possible when your kid is being held hostage.

[Sexus]

(10-08-2015 09:08 PM)JayR Wrote:  

For those who say "just stay out of family court," it is good advice. But it's not always possible when your kid is being held hostage.

The real questions are: how do we go about rolling back (and forward) the crimes against family and relationships that was done with VAWA/Title-IV ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_A..._Women_Act ) from 1994 to the present? And how do we achieve an evolved and advantageous balance for the generations to come?

[iknowexactly]

(10-07-2015 07:12 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 07:02 PM)emuelle1 Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 06:50 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

I will say this. I've been doing this for a while and have never even seen a bar complaint.

I'm pretty sure I know how things work "in real life." I've handled hundreds of divorces over the years. ........

Did you check to see which lawyers had sued their clients and how often? That doesn't take "fucking weeks" to do. It may take an hour.

I'm a licensed professional in another field and your pompous tone talking down to the man who was dissatisfied typifies what people don't like about lawyers.

You are unsympathetic to the fact that the average person doesn't understand the power State licensing boards have over professionals, or even know that a licensing/ethics board exists.

If the person knows an ethics board exists and is part of the government, he might reasonably expect it to be a rubber-stamp insider controlled bunch of cronies that would never discipline one of their own.

When you work 10-20 years to GET a license, you know that isn't true and that the ethics boards can be not only relevant but persecutory, but your presumption that the average person "should" know this is just unreasonable.

[iknowexactly]

(10-08-2015 10:34 PM)Sexus Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 09:08 PM)JayR Wrote:  

For those who say "just stay out of family court," it is good advice. But it's not always possible when your kid is being held hostage.

The real questions are: how do we go about rolling back (and forward) the crimes against family and relationships that was done with VAWA/Title-IV ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_A..._Women_Act ) from 1994 to the present? And how do we achieve an evolved and advantageous balance for the generations to come?

You're preaching to the choir with me, but if you're over 30, by the time Anti-Masculine Feminism has receded in power, you'll be long dead.

I'd say minimum 25 years before any significant on-the-ground changes happen.

10-12 years before the idea that men are actually "persecuted" takes root, then years more before legislative changes.

However, I would add I've read that marriages where both parties have college degrees have only about a 12% divorce rate in USA. Didn't research the stat but it may not be as bad as people imagine.

[Sexus]

(10-08-2015 11:07 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I'd say minimum 25 years before any significant on-the-ground changes happen.

Bet ; - )

[whateverfuckit]

Quote:

I'm a licensed professional in another field and your pompous tone talking down to the man who was dissatisfied typifies what people don't like about lawyers.

You are unsympathetic to the fact that the average person doesn't understand the power State licensing boards have over professionals, or even know that a licensing/ethics board exists.

If the person knows an ethics board exists and is part of the government, he might reasonably expect it to be a rubber-stamp insider controlled bunch of cronies that would never discipline one of their own.

When you work 10-20 years to GET a license, you know that isn't true and that the ethics boards can be not only relevant but persecutory, but your presumption that the average person "should" know this is just unreasonable.

Rep'd.