[jariel]

Was having a discussion with a girl earlier and she talks about how she likes to upgrade her guys -- gotta like a girl who doesn't mind spending money.

From the other side, do you believe in upgrading a chick?

I'm ok with it, but there's a limit, let's define the upgrade.

The upgrade to me has to do with her mind, her look, and style.

Upgrading doesn't mean you put her through school or do anything that would majorly change her life, she has to do those things for herself.

Also, it is necessary that she actually wants it and is already working with something. That means she's already at a fairly high level, and a little upgrade would take her to another level, we're not trying to turn pennies into dimes.

Lastly, your level of investment only comes after she has already has demonstrated her willingness to invest in you, in whatever ways she's capable of and those that meet your desires.

[tylerdurden1993]

One of the problems is that if you upgrade her to much she could evaluate her options and think the grass is greener on the other site. As its been said on this site many times women are naturally hypergamous so if you upgrade her too much she might be able to attract a male with a higher SMV.
However I think it could be advantageous to you on a general scale just don't upgrade her to much. haha.

[WestIndianArchie]

redacted

[Jura]

(12-27-2013 05:45 PM)jariel Wrote:  

The upgrade to me has to do with her mind, her look, and style.

^^This. With the right words and some solid mind games, you can easily turn a nerdy, shy, boyish type of girl into a diamond. (Baring she already has a good figure and it's only a question of style).

The result is great because you now find yourself with a hot girl who doesn't necessarily have the attitude that usually goes with it. Bonus for the low notch count, as these girls are usually new to male attention too.

[Flavius Aetius]

Women are poor long-term investments. If you have to spend money--invest in yourself.

One other thing to consider. If you "upgrade a woman" she automatically has more options in life, which will make it much easier for her to dump you for a better deal somewhere else.

[Mr. Butterworth]

hell no, I'm not doing shit for her.... she should naturally see how smooth/cool I am and follow..

and of course like it has been stated. she will eventually jump ship because of all the new "love" she's getting from others.. it's only natural.. because I'd do the same shit

[vinman]

Fuck no! All you're doing is making it better for the next guy. A woman must ALWAYS think that you're better than her. When you upgrade them they think they can do better than you. Because you were a loser fucking them before they "transformed".

[Mr. Butterworth]

^^ exactly

plus, this bitch sees all these other women walking around looking fly and on top of their game. why can't she take note from them?

let her ass figure it out for herself or have a fellow female give advise.

the same why WE do

[pitt]

If you are in a position of power, then yes, you can do it. You need to know that is highly unlikely that she will meet someone better than you, even if she does meets someone who looks better than you, has more money than you, you need to know that she won't have the same chemistry with any other guy or this is highly unlikely. Once you are sure about this than you may do it. I personally wouldn't do it. It's her job to upgrade herself, she will simply become part of my lifestyle, I won't upgrade her (as a side note: the girl I am currently dating, I can't see myself upgrading her in terms of looks, so this wouldn't work for me even if I wanted to).

[Timoteo]

I think if you're performing the upgrade by suggesting to her that she'd look better wearing this, or doing that, and SHE'S paying for it herself, then I don't really see the harm. I'm less worried about her possibly dropping me for another dude than how she looks and acts when she's with ME.

[horn]

I'm more than a bit surprised by all the insecurity above. Tight inner game is always where it's at. The woman you are with is a reflection of you, if you want to be able to consistently get hot[ter] women you gotta be seen with the hottest/sexiest women available, not some ratchet.

Agree, of course, on not paying anything to majorly change her life, or a car, or anything silly like that. But new clothes or shoes that complement her figure or outfit perfectly? Not even a new bra/lingerie? Remember, you're doing this for *you* not for her. As long as she wants to look good for me, then I'm all for it.

Worrying that she has 'more options' is silly. She always has more options. Don't kid yourself. If you're worried you're with a golddigger already, you probably are. Ditch her and move on. GFTOW as they say.

YOU will be the one with more options when you have one of the hottest girls in the joint when you step out. Trust me, every girl will be looking at you and wanting to get to know you better.

[AneroidOcean]

Anyone I care about who wants help will get it. Now, I'm not just giving it away for free and doing everything for a person, but I have no incentive to bring someone down. Goes same for girls.

[WestIndianArchie]

Finally, a little bit of controversy. Let's keep it civil and discuss it like gentlemen dear Sir.

Call it insecurity if you want, I call it experience.
Inner game doesn't keep my bed warm at night. Inner game is how you handle yourself, which may or may not affect the people around you. Plenty of blowhards and stone cold killers don't get what they want by dipping into that well. Real talk.

To paraphrase the homey Flavius Aetius above, if you're going to invest, invest in yourself.

Consider this scenario.

You got yourself a little cornfed cutie. She'd jump from a 6.5 to a 7.8 if she lost a little weight and dressed a little better. So you spend the time and effort to encourage her. Take her to the gym with you. Get her used to asking your opinion on what she wears. It won't be easy, because giving guidance and direction is not an easy job, nor is it quick, and it's usually thankless.

That's time you could have been perfecting your power cleans, or devoting mental energy to your business, or spending time with family and friends.

Which is going to pull you more tail on the long run?
- self investment
- investment in a depleting asset?

If you're trying to shine up a rough diamond in the hopes of attracting gems that are already shining brightly....as opposed to stepping your own game up, and getting chicks on your own humble....

I don't know what to tell you, other than it's a risky strategy.

Upgrading is essentially what Kanye did with Amber Rose.

Here's how she started



And this is what she became


She was just a bisexual stripper in Philly until he turned her into an icon. Depending on who you talk to, she didn't respond with gratitude. And if you think about it, what could she do for him, that she already wasn't? Already pretty, already fucking and sucking, already bringing other chicks into their bedroom...Now she's a star in her own right, and what does Ye get out of her transformation?

As you were.

WIA

(12-27-2013 09:10 PM)horn Wrote:  

I'm more than a bit surprised by all the insecurity above. Tight inner game is always where it's at. The woman you are with is a reflection of you, if you want to be able to consistently get hot[ter] women you gotta be seen with the hottest/sexiest women available, not some ratchet.

Agree, of course, on not paying anything to majorly change her life, or a car, or anything silly like that. But new clothes or shoes that complement her figure or outfit perfectly? Not even a new bra/lingerie? Remember, you're doing this for *you* not for her. As long as she wants to look good for me, then I'm all for it.

Worrying that she has 'more options' is silly. She always has more options. Don't kid yourself. If you're worried you're with a golddigger already, you probably are. Ditch her and move on. GFTOW as they say.

YOU will be the one with more options when you have one of the hottest girls in the joint when you step out. Trust me, every girl will be looking at you and wanting to get to know you better.

[horn]

Yeah, I def remember Amber from the club she worked at which was my main post-up when I used to date strippers.

Most girls aren't black, hoodrat, bisexual strippers.

Like I said, upgrade the girl if it makes YOU happy. I don't do it for them. I do it for me. I'm pretty upgraded already.

But I agree with your point that if you haven't upgraded your wardrobe, apt, car, whatever, then do that first of course.


Your point about not being able to do power cleans because your girl came to the gym with you was totally lost on me.

[wi30]

WIA, I agree with your post above, but your example doesn't do it for me. Her quads are bigger than Kanye's, and her hair is somehow shorter than his buzz cut. Gross.

But your assessment is spot on. I've never taken on a project girl, simply because it's a poor investment. I date girls that I believe are up to my standards and only make minor adjustments. I'll tell them to wear a dress and heels when out, but I'll never take the time to bring a girl to the gym or map out a diet for her.

I already click with girls who have a similar lifestyle to mine, so why would I take on a girl I have to put extra effort into changing?

[WestIndianArchie]

(12-27-2013 10:44 PM)horn Wrote:  

Your point about not being able to do power cleans because your girl came to the gym with you was totally lost on me.

I see these dudes bring their girls to the gym all the time.
Most of the time, he's being the personal trainer and not getting his work out in.

That was my point. You spend time on a chick, she benefits, but that's time you should spend on yourself. And I don't think there's an upper limit to self improvement.

Assuming you've gotten the body and cash right, there's still more to learn and experience.

My exploits in improving the chicks i've been with, have never benefitted me. Taught one girl to cook, she ain't cooking for me now, lol

WIA

[WestIndianArchie]

(12-27-2013 10:51 PM)wi30 Wrote:  

WIA, I agree with your post above, but your example doesn't do it for me. Her quads are bigger than Kanye's, and her hair is somehow shorter than his buzz cut. Gross.

Haha, don't know what to tell you. To each his own, the board tends to be less enthusiastic about women of color and women who aren't size 0. There are folks here that don't find Beyonce attractive, and go through all kinds of contortion to say so diplomatically.

IMO, She went from a solid 7 to a 9/10.
She drops back to a 7 when you hear her talk, but that's neither here nor there, haha.

cheers.

WIA

[Hotwheels]

(12-27-2013 11:17 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

IMO, She went from a solid 7 to a 9/10.
cheers.

WIA

Not in the "pointy elbow" crowd by any means, but that broad does absolutely nothing for me with her hair like that.

Can't stand that shit.

WNB

[soup]

She looked better before the "upgrade".


You can upgrade a chick, but never let her know that she's now "it".

You can say stuff like: "that's better" , and encourage, but never give away the farm.

[runsonmagic]

I'd gladly invest in a girl if I thought she'd pay off.

I could easily take a fat girl and make her hot in two months. I know because I've done it myself.

She'd never follow through. If she could do that, she wouldn't be fat.

[wi30]

(12-27-2013 11:17 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(12-27-2013 10:51 PM)wi30 Wrote:  

WIA, I agree with your post above, but your example doesn't do it for me. Her quads are bigger than Kanye's, and her hair is somehow shorter than his buzz cut. Gross.

Haha, don't know what to tell you. To each his own, the board tends to be less enthusiastic about women of color and women who aren't size 0. There are folks here that don't find Beyonce attractive, and go through all kinds of contortion to say so diplomatically.

IMO, She went from a solid 7 to a 9/10.
She drops back to a 7 when you hear her talk, but that's neither here nor there, haha.

cheers.

WIA

Haha, I'm by no means into girls who weigh 90lbs, I find Beyonce attractive.

But it's the buzz cut that ruins it for her. She would jump a solid 2 points by having long hair.

[horn]

Beyonce is hot, but not 9 hot. Give me Rihanna or Toni Braxton or Ashanti back in the day.

I used to be into size 0 girls, but no longer. Getting older I appreciate curves a lot more.

I think soup said it right, you can upgrade them, but always let them know they gotta do better in the future. Reward and dread, as others like CH have noted.

[Parlay44]

Upgrade a woman like you'd upgrade a car. Newer model with lower mileage. Unlike cars however, antique women have no collector value.

As you get older and wiser you realize that a woman's intelligence really doesn't matter. She'll never be on your level. And if she's close to your level she's still a woman and will have a woman's argument with you ...just a higher level argument. I'll pass.

I like women that are pretty but "smart enough". A woman will never look up to you like a woman should if she's over educated. Which is going on today. Look at all these educated women who can't find a man.

[DVY]

I agree with horn. I screen for "good girls".

If a girl is with me, shes already passed my caliper for friendliness, warmth and moral character. I don't associate with bitches or greedy gold-diggers. A girl whos ambitious and won't settle- that I can handle.

I want my girl to be the "best she can be". I have her back and will stay friends with her longer than I intend to bang her. I want her to dress the best, cook the best, get the best jobs she can.

Whats with this petty attitude. Its like when my friends get jealous at my new whip or new fling. Be happy and live life.

What I give, I intend to receive. If the girl fails in that regard, she gets dropped or taken down to booty-call. Life is too short to have shitty people around.

[augen sehen]

Halfway down the thread, I thought I was the only one who liked to upgrade my women by showing them how to workout, dress according to my taste (what most men would find attractive), encouraging them to cook, get a better haircut and so on.

I had my ex-LTR jump a solid 2 points because of all that stuff, and of course at the same time I had also jumped up in attractiveness by hitting the gym etc. One of the last things I bought her was a pair of expensive booties (those heels I like) just before I left the country, because it was Valentine's day.

However, she's no longer with me and has chubbed up again. Should I be glad that it didn't stick for the next guy or sad that she couldn't keep it up? Neither. I don't care.

Hell, I just bought one of my plates a pair of nice thigh highs when I know full well I'm gonna drop her after the new year's and am barely going to see her wearing them once or twice. NBD. The next guy can enjoy them, idgaf.