[Wavy]

Okay so the point of this thread is to figure out the best solution to my problem. I would rather not co exist with women.

I am an attractive guy. I get hit on a decent amount and I have had my share of experiences. My body count isnt where I want it to be but I still have gotten my share of pussy. But after dipping my foot into the pool that is game, I have discovered a few problems I have...

1. No matter how much I try to avoid it, women always know how to bring drama. It seems like with every girl ive been involved with, they have a whole lot of drama that comes with them. There is never a woman who is content and at peace with herself. They always have insecurities or daddy issues or something else in that noggin of theirs that makes them act in a way that I simply refuse to deal with. The solution would be to just fuck them and chuck them correct? Well that brings me to number 2

2. I genuinely dislike one night stands and random squeezes. To me the whole process is very fake and soulless. I dont like talking to people who generally disinterest me. Most of the women you meet when doing these pickups or one night stands are pretty scummy personality wise. And the process of listening to these women talk and giving them attention knowing im really not shit to them isnt fun to me.

3. I cannot trust women at all. Anytime I am hanging out with a woman of interest. I always find myself trying to pick apart what she had to say too much. I read in between the lines too much. I always think a woman is ultimately out to use me. I think she is ultimately out for herself. Every time I have gone out of my way for a woman, I have been used as an emotional tampon or generally was treated less than I felt like I deserved.

4. Maintenance. I cannot do the fuck and chuck aspect, but at the same time I dont think I really have what it takes to provide a woman with what she needs for a long term relationship. Taking care of a woman is very similar to parenting or taking care of a pet. There is a lot of responsibility in giving them the affection and attention they need. If you arent providing them with enough of it, they will without a doubt look for it somewhere else. They dont even let you know how they feel because they want you to do it because you want to, not because they tell you to...I look at the dudes who live with the same woman on a daily basis. I did it myself for a few months, and it drove me crazy.

So yeah...I'm only 21, but I am already starting to contemplate even trying. There are just so many negative aspects that are involved for something thats supposed to be positive. I have been through almost all the bullshit you can think of when I was just trying to get some pussy and/or find a chill girl who I enjoy spending time with.

[WestIndianArchie]

We can't convince you of the value of women. If you can't be bothered, then don't be. There is no special snowflake out there that is going to be a panacea.

And if you change your mind, they will always be around.

WIA

[Plutoman]

Sounds like you're revolving your world too much around women. Make them take a back seat, focus on your life, and let them come around and adore you as they should. Meet a few women; go on a few dates; keep it all on the side. It's not your focus.

Get yourself in a better state and better position and then readdress these concerns. You have an enormous amount of maturing that will happen - the biggest changes in my life have been from the past year of 21 to 22 and I know I have many more left.

[Kloob]

Sounds like you have some issues man. acknoweldge them and sort them. then focus on your life. Women should fit around your life, not the other way around.

[BadgerHut]

(12-27-2013 02:08 PM)Kloob Wrote:  

Sounds like you have some issues man. acknoweldge them and sort them. then focus on your life. Women should fit around your life, not the other way around.

I think these "issues" are fairly typical for a young thirsty dude who has some relationship orientation - I was very similar at that age, idealistic but disillusioned. At 21, you have very little life-sense in the long term, the girls around you are drunk on the peak of their sexual power and don't know jack shit about life any more than you do. I'd say it's _very_ unlikely you'll find a grounded, stable, reasonably attractive woman around that age. People at that age these days are still in full adolescence. Sounds like the OP is "old souling" it. I agree with the recommendation to put girls on the back burner and find some fulfillment elsewhere for a year or two. Easier said than done but worth it. It is NOT worth it to invest in women who aren't worth your investment.

[VincentVinturi]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but perhaps you've developed some unrealistic ideas and expectations around yourself, women, etc.

(12-27-2013 12:54 PM)Wavy Wrote:  

1. No matter how much I try to avoid it, women always know how to bring drama. It seems like with every girl ive been involved with, they have a whole lot of drama that comes with them. There is never a woman who is content and at peace with herself. They always have insecurities or daddy issues or something else in that noggin of theirs that makes them act in a way that I simply refuse to deal with. The solution would be to just fuck them and chuck them correct?

There's no getting around female drama. The best you can do is develop huge optionality (so that women are careful with how they act with you because they know they're one of many), develop strong terms (i.e. figure out what you want by asking yourself "what do I want?" all the time and always do THAT), and (you're not going to like this answer) simply keep growing your experiences with women because over time you'll deal with the drama better.

Quote:

2. I genuinely dislike one night stands and random squeezes. To me the whole process is very fake and soulless.

I dont like talking to people who generally disinterest me. Most of the women you meet when doing these pickups or one night stands are pretty scummy personality wise. And the process of listening to these women talk and giving them attention knowing im really not shit to them isnt fun to me.

Not much you can do about that I'm afraid. Everybody's out for themselves, it's just a fact of nature.

But you're also based in the USA, so I'd really recommend traveling to a few other places where the women are ...women. I can see where you're coming from in this post and if you haven't traveled much and think that American women in any way represent natural, normal female behavior, you'll be in for a treat when you visit a better country.

Quote:

3. I cannot trust women at all. Anytime I am hanging out with a woman of interest. I always find myself trying to pick apart what she had to say too much. I read in between the lines too much. I always think a woman is ultimately out to use me. I think she is ultimately out for herself. Every time I have gone out of my way for a woman, I have been used as an emotional tampon or generally was treated less than I felt like I deserved.

Are you expecting women to NOT be out for themselves? Why do you expect such a thing? Is this expectation causing you emotional pain because the reality always disappoints?

A lot of game is just getting a realistic, objective grip on reality. For example, 'nice guys' have the expectation that being nice to a girl will win her favor and eventually, entrance into her vagina.

Even though this has been proven over and over to be objectively ineffective, guys still do it. They even go so far as to brainwash and delude themselves with the notion that they "really care" about her and aren't out for "just sex".

The blue pill/red pill metaphor comes to mind as a very potent illustration of just how unrealistic many of our expectations about ourselves, others and the world around us are. Becoming an effective player and HAPPY in your own skin and with the ways of others requires identifying erroneous expectations and replacing them with realistic ones.

Quote:

4. Maintenance. I cannot do the fuck and chuck aspect, but at the same time I dont think I really have what it takes to provide a woman with what she needs for a long term relationship. Taking care of a woman is very similar to parenting or taking care of a pet. There is a lot of responsibility in giving them the affection and attention they need. If you arent providing them with enough of it, they will without a doubt look for it somewhere else. They dont even let you know how they feel because they want you to do it because you want to, not because they tell you to...I look at the dudes who live with the same woman on a daily basis. I did it myself for a few months, and it drove me crazy.

You don't have to choose one relationship style over another (i.e. Pump & Dump vs Long Term Relationship vs Fuck Buddy, etc). Just be honest and upfront with women about what you can offer (expectation management) and play it by ear.

You're right, it IS hard to maintain a relationship. So if you can't offer that to a woman, just let her know. The relationship can be whatever it turns out to be. It doesn't require a label or a category. In fact, categorizing is the sure way to miss the nuance and finer points of simply relating with another human being.

A relationship is a fixed, static thing. Relating is a process that relies on awareness, commitment to honesty (honesty to yourself, not dogmatic honesty with others), unpredictability, etc.

Quote:

So yeah...I'm only 21, but I am already starting to contemplate even trying. There are just so many negative aspects that are involved for something thats supposed to be positive. I have been through almost all the bullshit you can think of when I was just trying to get some pussy and/or find a chill girl who I enjoy spending time with.

I lived in the US all my life until my mid 20s when I started traveling abroad. So please don't think this is a cop-out, easy answer. But here goes: Go abroad! (If you haven't already) :-)

[BadgerHut]

(12-28-2013 11:25 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

Please correct me if I'm wrong but perhaps you've developed some unrealistic ideas and expectations around yourself, women, etc.

(12-27-2013 12:54 PM)Wavy Wrote:  

1. No matter how much I try to avoid it, women always know how to bring drama. It seems like with every girl ive been involved with, they have a whole lot of drama that comes with them. There is never a woman who is content and at peace with herself. They always have insecurities or daddy issues or something else in that noggin of theirs that makes them act in a way that I simply refuse to deal with. The solution would be to just fuck them and chuck them correct?

There's no getting around female drama. The best you can do is develop huge optionality (so that women are careful with how they act with you because they know they're one of many), develop strong terms (i.e. figure out what you want by asking yourself "what do I want?" all the time and always do THAT), and (you're not going to like this answer) simply keep growing your experiences with women because over time you'll deal with the drama better.

Quote:

2. I genuinely dislike one night stands and random squeezes. To me the whole process is very fake and soulless.

I dont like talking to people who generally disinterest me. Most of the women you meet when doing these pickups or one night stands are pretty scummy personality wise. And the process of listening to these women talk and giving them attention knowing im really not shit to them isnt fun to me.

Not much you can do about that I'm afraid. Everybody's out for themselves, it's just a fact of nature.

But you're also based in the USA, so I'd really recommend traveling to a few other places where the women are ...women. I can see where you're coming from in this post and if you haven't traveled much and think that American women in any way represent natural, normal female behavior, you'll be in for a treat when you visit a better country.

Quote:

3. I cannot trust women at all. Anytime I am hanging out with a woman of interest. I always find myself trying to pick apart what she had to say too much. I read in between the lines too much. I always think a woman is ultimately out to use me. I think she is ultimately out for herself. Every time I have gone out of my way for a woman, I have been used as an emotional tampon or generally was treated less than I felt like I deserved.

Are you expecting women to NOT be out for themselves? Why do you expect such a thing? Is this expectation causing you emotional pain because the reality always disappoints?

A lot of game is just getting a realistic, objective grip on reality. For example, 'nice guys' have the expectation that being nice to a girl will win her favor and eventually, entrance into her vagina.

Even though this has been proven over and over to be objectively ineffective, guys still do it. They even go so far as to brainwash and delude themselves with the notion that they "really care" about her and aren't out for "just sex".

The blue pill/red pill metaphor comes to mind as a very potent illustration of just how unrealistic many of our expectations about ourselves, others and the world around us are. Becoming an effective player and HAPPY in your own skin and with the ways of others requires identifying erroneous expectations and replacing them with realistic ones.

Quote:

4. Maintenance. I cannot do the fuck and chuck aspect, but at the same time I dont think I really have what it takes to provide a woman with what she needs for a long term relationship. Taking care of a woman is very similar to parenting or taking care of a pet. There is a lot of responsibility in giving them the affection and attention they need. If you arent providing them with enough of it, they will without a doubt look for it somewhere else. They dont even let you know how they feel because they want you to do it because you want to, not because they tell you to...I look at the dudes who live with the same woman on a daily basis. I did it myself for a few months, and it drove me crazy.

You don't have to choose one relationship style over another (i.e. Pump & Dump vs Long Term Relationship vs Fuck Buddy, etc). Just be honest and upfront with women about what you can offer (expectation management) and play it by ear.

You're right, it IS hard to maintain a relationship. So if you can't offer that to a woman, just let her know. The relationship can be whatever it turns out to be. It doesn't require a label or a category. In fact, categorizing is the sure way to miss the nuance and finer points of simply relating with another human being.

A relationship is a fixed, static thing. Relating is a process that relies on awareness, commitment to honesty (honesty to yourself, not dogmatic honesty with others), unpredictability, etc.

Quote:

So yeah...I'm only 21, but I am already starting to contemplate even trying. There are just so many negative aspects that are involved for something thats supposed to be positive. I have been through almost all the bullshit you can think of when I was just trying to get some pussy and/or find a chill girl who I enjoy spending time with.

I lived in the US all my life until my mid 20s when I started traveling abroad. So please don't think this is a cop-out, easy answer. But here goes: Go abroad! (If you haven't already) :-)

On "going abroad": Wavy, are you hooked to the US or can you work in another country? You might try really hard to get a job elsewhere or if not just save up to travel for a month or two. It could really settle some of your anxious perspective, hate to sound like your older brother it did for me and gave me some pride that wasn't related to my success with women.

[Wavy]

(12-28-2013 12:37 PM)BadgerHut Wrote:  

(12-28-2013 11:25 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

Please correct me if I'm wrong but perhaps you've developed some unrealistic ideas and expectations around yourself, women, etc.

(12-27-2013 12:54 PM)Wavy Wrote:  

1. No matter how much I try to avoid it, women always know how to bring drama. It seems like with every girl ive been involved with, they have a whole lot of drama that comes with them. There is never a woman who is content and at peace with herself. They always have insecurities or daddy issues or something else in that noggin of theirs that makes them act in a way that I simply refuse to deal with. The solution would be to just fuck them and chuck them correct?

There's no getting around female drama. The best you can do is develop huge optionality (so that women are careful with how they act with you because they know they're one of many), develop strong terms (i.e. figure out what you want by asking yourself "what do I want?" all the time and always do THAT), and (you're not going to like this answer) simply keep growing your experiences with women because over time you'll deal with the drama better.

Quote:

2. I genuinely dislike one night stands and random squeezes. To me the whole process is very fake and soulless.

I dont like talking to people who generally disinterest me. Most of the women you meet when doing these pickups or one night stands are pretty scummy personality wise. And the process of listening to these women talk and giving them attention knowing im really not shit to them isnt fun to me.

Not much you can do about that I'm afraid. Everybody's out for themselves, it's just a fact of nature.

But you're also based in the USA, so I'd really recommend traveling to a few other places where the women are ...women. I can see where you're coming from in this post and if you haven't traveled much and think that American women in any way represent natural, normal female behavior, you'll be in for a treat when you visit a better country.

Quote:

3. I cannot trust women at all. Anytime I am hanging out with a woman of interest. I always find myself trying to pick apart what she had to say too much. I read in between the lines too much. I always think a woman is ultimately out to use me. I think she is ultimately out for herself. Every time I have gone out of my way for a woman, I have been used as an emotional tampon or generally was treated less than I felt like I deserved.

Are you expecting women to NOT be out for themselves? Why do you expect such a thing? Is this expectation causing you emotional pain because the reality always disappoints?

A lot of game is just getting a realistic, objective grip on reality. For example, 'nice guys' have the expectation that being nice to a girl will win her favor and eventually, entrance into her vagina.

Even though this has been proven over and over to be objectively ineffective, guys still do it. They even go so far as to brainwash and delude themselves with the notion that they "really care" about her and aren't out for "just sex".

The blue pill/red pill metaphor comes to mind as a very potent illustration of just how unrealistic many of our expectations about ourselves, others and the world around us are. Becoming an effective player and HAPPY in your own skin and with the ways of others requires identifying erroneous expectations and replacing them with realistic ones.

Quote:

4. Maintenance. I cannot do the fuck and chuck aspect, but at the same time I dont think I really have what it takes to provide a woman with what she needs for a long term relationship. Taking care of a woman is very similar to parenting or taking care of a pet. There is a lot of responsibility in giving them the affection and attention they need. If you arent providing them with enough of it, they will without a doubt look for it somewhere else. They dont even let you know how they feel because they want you to do it because you want to, not because they tell you to...I look at the dudes who live with the same woman on a daily basis. I did it myself for a few months, and it drove me crazy.

You don't have to choose one relationship style over another (i.e. Pump & Dump vs Long Term Relationship vs Fuck Buddy, etc). Just be honest and upfront with women about what you can offer (expectation management) and play it by ear.

You're right, it IS hard to maintain a relationship. So if you can't offer that to a woman, just let her know. The relationship can be whatever it turns out to be. It doesn't require a label or a category. In fact, categorizing is the sure way to miss the nuance and finer points of simply relating with another human being.

A relationship is a fixed, static thing. Relating is a process that relies on awareness, commitment to honesty (honesty to yourself, not dogmatic honesty with others), unpredictability, etc.

Quote:

So yeah...I'm only 21, but I am already starting to contemplate even trying. There are just so many negative aspects that are involved for something thats supposed to be positive. I have been through almost all the bullshit you can think of when I was just trying to get some pussy and/or find a chill girl who I enjoy spending time with.

I lived in the US all my life until my mid 20s when I started traveling abroad. So please don't think this is a cop-out, easy answer. But here goes: Go abroad! (If you haven't already) :-)

On "going abroad": Wavy, are you hooked to the US or can you work in another country? You might try really hard to get a job elsewhere or if not just save up to travel for a month or two. It could really settle some of your anxious perspective, hate to sound like your older brother it did for me and gave me some pride that wasn't related to my success with women.

I am in the US Air Force currently. Although its very possible to go to another country through my job, I am stuck in the US. Probably will be for awhile. And even if I were to get stationed abroad, idk how much my military career hinders me from the full experience.

I guess I could vacation somewhere. I just have no idea where. Idk where I would go, what I would do, how I would adjust. I have never once been outside the US.

[Wavy]

People always say "Being nice and expecting a woman to like you is foolish". Well I guess I understand that, but am I supposed to be unfriendly and rude? Whats crossing the line with being a jerk? I always thought being nice is okay as long as Im not a pushover, but I guess I am mistaken.

[Menace]

What's the value of a dog? You literally have to pick up their shit. Take them for walks rain or shine, feed them. They don't have their own health insurance, so you have to pay out the nose. They don't talk. They shed. They puke. They chew up shit they're not supposed to. Why would anyone ever get a dog?

[Wavy]

seeing that I am more confused than ever, I am guessing my best option is to just focusing on self improvement and just cancel women out of my mind.

[Christian McQueen]

"just cancel women out of my mind."

^Ahem

[Wavy]

(12-28-2013 03:10 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  

"just cancel women out of my mind."

^Ahem

I'm guessing you agree.

[Christian McQueen]

That's 'ahem', not 'amen'.

If a guy can cancel women out of his mind then he probably has Low Testosterone.

Or...

He's batting for the other team.

[Christian McQueen]

@Wavy:

Based on your 18 posts, most have been about being discouraged with women, as in "I may give up women...for now".

You're either struggling with the Red Pill, which can be difficult to swallow.

Or, you're trolling us.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(12-28-2013 03:52 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  

Or, you're trolling us.

LOL, that's a better guess.

(07-22-2013 12:04 AM)Wavy Wrote:  

I fear going out by myself because my city has a high percent of gay dudes who try to date rape straight men.

[Wavy]

(12-28-2013 03:52 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  

@Wavy:

Based on your 18 posts, most have been about being discouraged with women, as in "I may give up women...for now".

You're either struggling with the Red Pill, which can be difficult to swallow.

Or, you're trolling us.

no troll. Still trying to understand the red pill. I'm a rookie bro.

[Wavy]

(12-28-2013 04:03 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(12-28-2013 03:52 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  

Or, you're trolling us.

LOL, that's a better guess.

(07-22-2013 12:04 AM)Wavy Wrote:  

I fear going out by myself because my city has a high percent of gay dudes who try to date rape straight men.

That's completely true lol. I have nobody who likes to go out to bars and stuff. and yes I dont wanna get date raped by homosexuals.

[BadgerHut]

I'm going to play this straight until others decide he's trolling for real...

(12-28-2013 02:43 PM)Wavy Wrote:  

People always say "Being nice and expecting a woman to like you is foolish". Well I guess I understand that, but am I supposed to be unfriendly and rude? Whats crossing the line with being a jerk? I always thought being nice is okay as long as Im not a pushover, but I guess I am mistaken.

This is a typical game-newbie conundrum. The key with not being "too nice" is not being a jerk per se, it's removing behaviors that are approval seeking. If you find yourself doing things where you consciously anticipate the joy of a woman positively responding to your gesture, that's an approval-seeking behavior. You want to remove most of these from your repertoire as a first step towards being a stronger man around women. And yes, even not-a-pushover niceness with girls can be tingle-drying. Most girls want to either (a) earn your approval rather than giving theirs to you, or (b) see a man display some kind of positive badassery that goes far beyond just "not being a pushover."

As for being the AF, you can't go abroad at your own choice for a while so you're right that's out. But you should take advantage of the opportunities in the service to become further educated, get new skills, get financial benefits, and move through the social ranks of the airmen or officers. Those opportunities can and will bear fruit across your life.

Mind telling us where you are stationed? MacDill or Lackland is going to be different from Barstow or Wright-Patterson.

Also, did you go to college or no? What in particular led you to sign up for the AF?

[Wavy]

(12-28-2013 07:09 PM)BadgerHut Wrote:  

I'm going to play this straight until others decide he's trolling for real...

(12-28-2013 02:43 PM)Wavy Wrote:  

People always say "Being nice and expecting a woman to like you is foolish". Well I guess I understand that, but am I supposed to be unfriendly and rude? Whats crossing the line with being a jerk? I always thought being nice is okay as long as Im not a pushover, but I guess I am mistaken.

This is a typical game-newbie conundrum. The key with not being "too nice" is not being a jerk per se, it's removing behaviors that are approval seeking. If you find yourself doing things where you consciously anticipate the joy of a woman positively responding to your gesture, that's an approval-seeking behavior. You want to remove most of these from your repertoire as a first step towards being a stronger man around women. And yes, even not-a-pushover niceness with girls can be tingle-drying. Most girls want to either (a) earn your approval rather than giving theirs to you, or (b) see a man display some kind of positive badassery that goes far beyond just "not being a pushover."

As for being the AF, you can't go abroad at your own choice for a while so you're right that's out. But you should take advantage of the opportunities in the service to become further educated, get new skills, get financial benefits, and move through the social ranks of the airmen or officers. Those opportunities can and will bear fruit across your life.

Mind telling us where you are stationed? MacDill or Lackland is going to be different from Barstow or Wright-Patterson.

Also, did you go to college or no? What in particular led you to sign up for the AF?

Stationed in Little Rock...yeah. It has been a tough adjustment. Between moving and the holidays, money struggles have been present in my life for the past few months. I haven't had much time to pursue extracurricular activities. But the new year is coming up, and now that I finally have everything sorted out and I am done visiting family, I am ready to pursue my goals.

These goals include getting back in the gym and enrolling in the local university (which is paid for by the AF). I bought a book on Zen Buddhism and plan on reading about that just out of pure interest.

As far as game goes...I have been doing my best to apply what I have read here and learned from my buddie who is very successful with women. I don't think he's a member here, but he applies very similar techniques. I do apologize if I am coming off as a troll, but this isn't my intention. This has actually been the most successful year I have had. But there was recently a girl I got really hung up on at the start of the month. I felt like I was doing so well as a pupil of game, but this girl threw me off. And I have been questioning myself since.

This is why I am looking forward to pursueing all my goals I posted above. It'll be a new year and a fresh pay check. I'll be so busy I won't have to constantly over think all of this (which I find myself doing a lot).

[VincentVinturi]

@Wavy

I tried PM'ing you but your PMs are disabled.

A thought on the "Asshole vs Nice Guy" dichotomy:

Women don't like assholes *as such*. It's just a side effect.

The guys we tend to label as 'assholes' are guys who do what THEY want and don't compromise what they want to do to please other people.

And really, you have no control over whether other people think of you as an asshole. In fact, if you're doing what YOU want to do, it's bound to piss people off, especially conformist types.

So the actual quality that attracts women is:

- Asking yourself all the time "what do I want?"...
- Doing that thing fully and unapologetically...
- Refusing to be manipulated into doing something you don't want to do...

...and you've probably noticed that women intentionally try to get you to do stuff you don't want to do. They intentionally probe and question you and TRY to make you feel uncertain about what you want. If they succeed and feel that you're a waffler, they'll lose attraction.

Practicing this pure, innocent selfishness will automatically make you an asshole at times and an incredibly tender person at others. Really, you're neither. You just are who you are and do what you do and live spontaneously and naturally. For the simple reason that you'll always be asking yourself "what do I really want? How do I really feel?" and living those feelings and desires fully and without apology.

This is the quality we as men should strive to develop, not "being an asshole" (which is vague and unactionable) and has unjustly taken all the credit!

A few practical examples:

1. A girl asks you to buy her a drink at the bar. You go inside yourself and ask "do I want to do that?" if you come back with a "no." Then don't do it. If she asks "why?" then you can respond simply and honestly "because I don't want to."

In this case, you're neither being nice nor are you being a douche (can you even really define either of those words objectively?) You're just doing what you feel like doing; living spontaneously and staying true to yourself, even though it may seem like a small thing (and really --- life is a bunch of small things; there are very few really BIG decisions).

2. Your buddies all want to go out drinking but you've made a commitment to yourself to avoid alcohol. You feel pressured to come and they tease you about it. But you don't trust yourself to not drink. So you go inside and ask "what do I want to do?" and the answer becomes clear to you instantly: "I'll chill out tonight guys" OR "Ok cool I'll come (but I'm not going to drink anything)."

When the pain of betraying yourself is greater than the pleasure from doing something for instant gratification (and instant self-hatred right afterwards), this "doing what you want to do" takes on the quality of responsibility (as opposed to Yes Man style hedonism).

Every time you ignore that voice inside you that asks "what do *I* want to do?" you destroy your self esteem. Every time you tune into it and listen to it and ACT on it no matter the immediate consequences, social, familial, or otherwise, you will start to trust yourself, love yourself and feel that you can handle any situation that comes your way.

...I may have gone off on a tangent there but I hope it contributes to the conversation!

[BadgerHut]

(12-28-2013 08:25 PM)Wavy Wrote:  

Stationed in Little Rock...yeah. It has been a tough adjustment. Between moving and the holidays, money struggles have been present in my life for the past few months. I haven't had much time to pursue extracurricular activities. But the new year is coming up, and now that I finally have everything sorted out and I am done visiting family, I am ready to pursue my goals.

These goals include getting back in the gym and enrolling in the local university (which is paid for by the AF). I bought a book on Zen Buddhism and plan on reading about that just out of pure interest.

As far as game goes...I have been doing my best to apply what I have read here and learned from my buddie who is very successful with women. I don't think he's a member here, but he applies very similar techniques. I do apologize if I am coming off as a troll, but this isn't my intention. This has actually been the most successful year I have had. But there was recently a girl I got really hung up on at the start of the month. I felt like I was doing so well as a pupil of game, but this girl threw me off. And I have been questioning myself since.

This is why I am looking forward to pursueing all my goals I posted above. It'll be a new year and a fresh pay check. I'll be so busy I won't have to constantly over think all of this (which I find myself doing a lot).

Don't know jack about Little Rock except that Bill Clinton got laid there like a pro, maybe other folks have a datasheet or something.

One thing I might advise I've heard from other military folks is that when it comes to picking up chicks, to stay away from the normal "uniform guys" hangouts. First, you don't want to rely on chicks who are just into you for your uniform, and some of them are predatory knowing the benefits a servicememeber has access to. Second, you don't want to get suckered into some "let's you and him fight" airman-on-airman competition over a woman. Women are generally NOT worth fighting other men over, your current ennui about women should reinforce that sense.

Also a guy running good game should try to stay out of environments with lots of thirsty dudes pumping up women's egos.

What are you planning on studying at the university? Make it something worthwhile, like engineering, something medical, or accounting/management/other office-type training. Something that will get you considered for a job your first day out of the ranks. You can take electives that interest you but what I'm saying is don't blow the education benefit (also taxpayer funds I helped pay for, ha) on some Bogus Studies degree. You can get most of a straight liberal arts education by just reading books at the library.

Sounds like money is tight, that sucks but you'll survive. Save a fraction of your paycheck for the long term every pay period. Don't get buried in credit card debt, that shit is toxic to your finances. Easier said than done but sacrifices now become gold later on.

Finally, for getting your game to a reasonable place, buy Roosh's book Bang (I get nothing if you buy it, this isn't an ad just an endorsement from a satisfied customer). Bang helps eliminate the classic game-killers and get you towards an easy-going, friendly vibe without too much complexity and without feeling like you are becoming a jerk. This forum is great but two hours reading that book will get you caught up to everyone's baseline around here.

You're going to want to build a vibe and personal image that says "I'm not just another dick from the base." You're an interesting person who's going somewhere. The fact that you're posting here shows you want to at least try to become that person. I've found an many others have too that when you become that person, concerns about women just take a back seat. You're just not nearly as hung up on whether women like you or whether you are treating them right, etc. You're just living your life, and the women who want to be a part of that are willing to do it your way.

Go forth and prosper.

[BadgerHut]

(12-29-2013 01:22 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

@Wavy

I tried PM'ing you but your PMs are disabled.

A thought on the "Asshole vs Nice Guy" dichotomy:

Women don't like assholes *as such*. It's just a side effect.

The guys we tend to label as 'assholes' are guys who do what THEY want and don't compromise what they want to do to please other people.

And really, you have no control over whether other people think of you as an asshole. In fact, if you're doing what YOU want to do, it's bound to piss people off, especially conformist types.

So the actual quality that attracts women is:

- Asking yourself all the time "what do I want?"...
- Doing that thing fully and unapologetically...
- Refusing to be manipulated into doing something you don't want to do...

...and you've probably noticed that women intentionally try to get you to do stuff you don't want to do. They intentionally probe and question you and TRY to make you feel uncertain about what you want. If they succeed and feel that you're a waffler, they'll lose attraction.

Practicing this pure, innocent selfishness will automatically make you an asshole at times and an incredibly tender person at others. Really, you're neither. You just are who you are and do what you do and live spontaneously and naturally. For the simple reason that you'll always be asking yourself "what do I really want? How do I really feel?" and living those feelings and desires fully and without apology.

This is the quality we as men should strive to develop, not "being an asshole" (which is vague and unactionable) and has unjustly taken all the credit!

A few practical examples:

1. A girl asks you to buy her a drink at the bar. You go inside yourself and ask "do I want to do that?" if you come back with a "no." Then don't do it. If she asks "why?" then you can respond simply and honestly "because I don't want to."

In this case, you're neither being nice nor are you being a douche (can you even really define either of those words objectively?) You're just doing what you feel like doing; living spontaneously and staying true to yourself, even though it may seem like a small thing (and really --- life is a bunch of small things; there are very few really BIG decisions).

2. Your buddies all want to go out drinking but you've made a commitment to yourself to avoid alcohol. You feel pressured to come and they tease you about it. But you don't trust yourself to not drink. So you go inside and ask "what do I want to do?" and the answer becomes clear to you instantly: "I'll chill out tonight guys" OR "Ok cool I'll come (but I'm not going to drink anything)."

When the pain of betraying yourself is greater than the pleasure from doing something for instant gratification (and instant self-hatred right afterwards), this "doing what you want to do" takes on the quality of responsibility (as opposed to Yes Man style hedonism).

Every time you ignore that voice inside you that asks "what do *I* want to do?" you destroy your self esteem. Every time you tune into it and listen to it and ACT on it no matter the immediate consequences, social, familial, or otherwise, you will start to trust yourself, love yourself and feel that you can handle any situation that comes your way.

...I may have gone off on a tangent there but I hope it contributes to the conversation!

This is a really good writeup. I think of "nice" as being "altruistic," which is sacrificing your own good for someone else's. The complement is as you say to "what do _I_ want to do?"

Few want to admit this, but when it comes to sexual value women will subconsciously mark a man down if he displays more than a token level of altruism. They'll interpret a guy who is consistently putting himself first as having higher value. Men are often socialized to work cooperatively (either in a masculine or feminine fashion), but males who naturally assert their own good are observed to gather sexual spoils even at a young age/the onset of puberty.

There's a bunch of evopsych in there that I won't go into, but that's the basic formula.

[eradicator]

If you have a gay man hitting on you, your response should be the same as when a really fat woman is hitting on you, "I've got a girlfriend, fuck off," if they persist, "get the fuck away from me, I said I have a girlfriend".

If there are some really fucked up gay men trying to rape straight men, this should not stop you from going out to try to game women.

[Wavy]

I appreciate all the advice. I am gonna buy bang and really study the hell out of it.


Dont wanna get into the details, but like I said I got caught up over some girl who I didnt get the chance to smash. So last night I brought some rando 4 or 5 chick home and had a one night stand to see if it would make me feel better. It kinda does...but she wasnt of great quality.