[Matsufubu]

Why does anyone care what it makes their shit smell like? Do you offer it to your potential bangs to woo them or something?

[king bast]

The typical pattern of a persons experimenting with veganism is that when they start paying strict attention to their diet, as veganism requires, they cut out all kinds of harmful bullshit along with the animal products, so for the first few weeks, they feel fantastic.

But this initial bliss is short lived, as slowly but surely, the deficiencies set in and their body starts transforming into that of a pale, weak lethargic, sickly vegan weed. But they don't recognize that deficiencies are why they start feeling like shit, as they just remember how great they felt in those first few weeks. They think it must be something else, and double down on the veganism, thus accelerating the process.

They're like drug addicts, always chasing that incredible feeling they got from their first time, slowly killing themselves trying to replicate it and never being able to do so.

[Malone]

Who has a problem with vegans? They're usually crazy, but they're good in bed and have tight pussies. Don't LTR one though!

[Filbert]

(11-10-2017 03:49 AM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

Why does anyone care what it makes their shit smell like? Do you offer it to your potential bangs to woo them or something?

It's important for coprophils ))

[Johnnyvee]

(11-09-2017 09:01 PM)HardcoreSexpatMotherfucker Wrote:  

It is absolutly possible to get a full nutritional profile (including rare vitamins like B12) by eating only vegan. I haven't tried it yet, but plan to do.

You`ll be unhealthy one way or the other.
It`s very difficult to get all you`re micronutrients in the long run,
it requires an extensive supplement regime.(Which is also expensive.)

But maybe even more importantly you`ll most likely be carb fueled,
which promotes insulin resistance and AGES.
It also increased insulin/IGF-1 which in turns elevates TOR and increases the rate cell proliferation, with resulting acceleration in telomere shortening. When telomeres get real short eventually you`ll see an increase in mutations which leads to an alteration in the genetic phenotype to a primordial type of metabolism also known as cancer. At least it`s very likely theory.

You also just age faster when you consume grains mostly, which is the case for most vegans. Grains also contain phytates which interfere with mineral absorption.

[Conscious Pirate]

(12-11-2013 07:06 PM)killthosepuppys Wrote:  

imo ppl who consume animal products daily or even to every meal are stupid and delusional and it smells like a dog has been dead for 10 days after they take a shit

The irony here given your forum handle is too damn high!

[Teutatis]

Veganism is just another anti human, anti biology cult.

[Rush87]

Vegan men grow vaginas. It's a proven fact.

[JayR]

(11-15-2017 12:34 AM)Rush87 Wrote:  

Vegan men grow vaginas. It's a proven fact.

Could be. I'm not vegan, so I can't comment on the vagina growth, but I wanted to respond to a couple things posted since I bumped this thread:

(11-09-2017 11:47 AM)Truth Tiger Wrote:  

JayR, I'm glad you're still with us and experiencing improved health. However I doubt you're getting adequate nutrients from plants grown in depleted soil as the governments have known is the case since the 1930s. Look up Zelcorpion's threads on supplementation and be sure you have eliminated the 12 bad foods per my signature. You will want to get very familiar with your blood levels for various vitamins and minerals. You need to ground / earth. You need a far IR mat for recovery. Research Dr. Joel Wallach, N.D., and find out ways to taper fully off the pharma drug cocktail. Aspirin makes sense but statins will damage your body. After 50 men need more cholesterol not less. Also look up the blood type diet by Dr. D'Adamo, N.D. I'm an O and my diet necessarily has to differ from other types. I balance salmon, beef, and chicken as meat based protein sources and have 3-6 eggs a day, 50/50 raw/over easy. I'm mindful of consuming AGE via overly cooked / browned foods. I avoid most oils which cause oxidative damage to cells (i.e. inflammation and damage to blood vessels which is repaired by cholesterol causing blockages over time). Low-sugar green juices periodically. Maca powder in raw eggs + banana shakes. Our genetic predispositions and gene markers also matter and help modify our diets so good you've found this for yourself so far.

I've never done TRT and never will and will NEVER recommend it over natural methods which are safer and more effective.

Pharma (statins?! Holy shit!) is never the way to go for health and longevity. Also calcium and magnesium need to be taken in a closer to 1:1 ratio, not 2:1 or 4:1 as many supplements have. Most people get too little magnesium in their diets and an over-abundance of calcium. If you get muscle twitches or migraine headaches, you're almost certainly mag deficient.

Every man has to find the diet and lifestyle that works and it's easier with the tools we have available now.

Ref: early 40s previously fatigued, shingles at age 39, total testosterone under 300, extreme fatigue. Corrected in 1 year via natural means: stress reduction, diet, moderate exercise with full recovery time between workouts, quality supplements, earthing, etc.

Wow, lots of information here (thanks), much of it in direct contradiction to my current knowledge/understanding of heart health via Dr. Esselstyn, particularly the comment about cholesterol after age 50. I'm in total agreement with you regarding the statins though. I don't want to be on them, but when your doctor tells you "you've got a moderate-to-high risk of heart attack in the next 5 years, take this pill to drop that risk immediately..." -- what would you do? I'll definitely follow up on your suggested research, particularly the vitamin balances -- expect some PM's.

(11-09-2017 11:54 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

@JayR, i'd be curious to see what your labs say after a 6 month diet change. Please get this checked again and post when you do. It's the only way to ensure your diet change actually worked.

Followup isn't until March, but definitely will do.

(11-10-2017 02:02 AM)Cumlluminates Wrote:  

Moderation is always key, not veganism...

Despite the thread title, I'm not vegan. But I'll address moderation. After getting my diagnosis and realizing this diet was the key to reversing my disease, I was devastated when my life plans to "do this fucking deprivation diet most of the time, but gorge myself at Thanksgiving, dammit!" were crushed by Chapter 5 of Dr. Esselstyn's book, "Moderation Kills."

Here's the theory: If you moderate, the brain never lets go of the need for fats. The heart disease will arrest, but you'll suffer cravings forever. But, if you follow the diet to the letter, including not a drop of oil, the brain rewires and you no longer crave fats at all. After 12 weeks, you're free -- you not only don't want meat, you can't even eat it because you'll puke it up -- the gut enzymes aren't there anymore to digest it.

I'm definitely not there yet -- I'm 8 weeks in and pizza commercials literally start my mouth watering. I hope it goes away like Esselstyn says it will.

(11-10-2017 03:51 AM)king bast Wrote:  

The typical pattern of a persons experimenting with veganism is that when they start paying strict attention to their diet, as veganism requires, they cut out all kinds of harmful bullshit along with the animal products, so for the first few weeks, they feel fantastic.

But this initial bliss is short lived, as slowly but surely, the deficiencies set in and their body starts transforming into that of a pale, weak lethargic, sickly vegan weed. But they don't recognize that deficiencies are why they start feeling like shit, as they just remember how great they felt in those first few weeks. They think it must be something else, and double down on the veganism, thus accelerating the process.

They're like drug addicts, always chasing that incredible feeling they got from their first time, slowly killing themselves trying to replicate it and never being able to do so.

I'm not vegan, but I think your post applies to my new animal-free diet nonetheless. I'm 64 days in, and I do feel great as you describe. I'll keep your post in mind if I start feeling like shit, but I do not see myself doubling down on behaviors that I can identify as harmful. I.e., if I think I need to start eating meat again to improve my health, I'll do it.

Finally, I know I keep mentioning Dr. Esselstyn, so it should be pretty clear I've decided he's the final word on heart disease, when that might not be the case. There are plenty of sources out there challenging plant-based diets and Esselstyn's approach, but as far as I know, Esselstyn's study is the only one that has been shown to not only arrest coronary artery disease, but to REVERSE it. Basically, Esselstyn's diet (no meat, fish, dairy, nuts, avocado, or OIL) is the only way I know to fix my heart. I'm early in this journey, but until I learn otherwise, Esselstyn's my man.

So far, so good.

[questor70]

I think diet is second only to religion when it comes to things people argue about. It's also a source of a huge amount of pseudo-scientific superstitions about what is better or worse for your health. Let's face it. The data is often wildly contradictory. It's ultimately a personal choice/gamble.

I really think people hate on veganism in particular because of its liberal/beta demographics and most of the issues are meant to rationalize the hate. But not all vegans are pansies. For instance, Geezer Butler from Black Sabbath is a long-time vegan. If Veganism was so bad for your health and aged you so much the guy would not be able to play anymore but he's in a lot better shape than most musicians of his era (like Ozzy who is barely functional and Tony Iommi who got lymphoma and the late Dio who died of stomach cancer on a diet of a lot of red meat and potatoes).

None of the above will change people from continuing to hate on them, though.

[Genghis Khan]

(11-15-2017 01:18 AM)JayR Wrote:  

(11-10-2017 03:51 AM)king bast Wrote:  

The typical pattern of a persons experimenting with veganism is that when they start paying strict attention to their diet, as veganism requires, they cut out all kinds of harmful bullshit along with the animal products, so for the first few weeks, they feel fantastic.

But this initial bliss is short lived, as slowly but surely, the deficiencies set in and their body starts transforming into that of a pale, weak lethargic, sickly vegan weed. But they don't recognize that deficiencies are why they start feeling like shit, as they just remember how great they felt in those first few weeks. They think it must be something else, and double down on the veganism, thus accelerating the process.

They're like drug addicts, always chasing that incredible feeling they got from their first time, slowly killing themselves trying to replicate it and never being able to do so.

I'm not vegan, but I think your post applies to my new animal-free diet nonetheless. I'm 64 days in, and I do feel great as you describe. I'll keep your post in mind if I start feeling like shit, but I do not see myself doubling down on behaviors that I can identify as harmful. I.e., if I think I need to start eating meat again to improve my health, I'll do it.

Finally, I know I keep mentioning Dr. Esselstyn, so it should be pretty clear I've decided he's the final word on heart disease, when that might not be the case. There are plenty of sources out there challenging plant-based diets and Esselstyn's approach, but as far as I know, Esselstyn's study is the only one that has been shown to not only arrest coronary artery disease, but to REVERSE it. Basically, Esselstyn's diet (no meat, fish, dairy, nuts, avocado, or OIL) is the only way I know to fix my heart. I'm early in this journey, but until I learn otherwise, Esselstyn's my man.

So far, so good.

I'll just preface this by saying I'm not here to argue or convince anyone of veganism or against it. But just one data point:

I've been vegan for about 8 years. Though stopped for about 2 weeks a month ago (long story, but wanted to see if I could eat meat - ate chicken 3 times). Now back on it.

In terms of deficiencies, I've gotten tested last month and I've had only one - a vitamin D deficiency. And that's most definitely is due to a combination of being in a lab all day, not eating any vitamin-D fortified food and having very dark skin while living in North America. Not sure you can really blame the veganism considering vitamin D deficiency seems to be super common regardless of diet:

http://www.rooshv.com/you-are-most-certa...-vitamin-d

On the other end: I do find it a bit odd that people criticize vegans for deficiencies when it seems half the manosphere is dealing with the same issues.

Zinc - I freaked out a while back reading the zinc thread, thinking I must be deficient. Got the allay to test for zinc deficiency. Nope, I'm definitely not deficient. Seems those plants served me well here...and with magnesium...and with a bunch of other nutrients.

Meanwhile, guys like P.D. Mangan and a host of the low-carb crew seem to be popping pills left and right. Mangan himself I think takes something like 15 supplements or something. I read his supplements book a while...it's a lot. A lot of the blogosphere guys talk about deficiencies, with zinc almost always being at the top. Yet I'm not deficient in zinc at all.

What's going on?

A lot of these guys blame soil nutrient depletion. But hey, if that's a valid argument for them, why not for vegans? I readily admit I don't know what's true and what's not. Maybe it really is soil depletion. Or maybe their diets are so lacking in plants? That's at least the counter-argument I've read - if you go low-carb (either heavy on protein, heavy on fat or both), you don't eat enough plant food to get your nutrients.

Does veganism cause deficiencies? I can see it if you're a soyboy living in a big city on a steady diet of starbucks, potato chips, soda and take-out you can be deficient. On a diet heavy on leafy greens, legumes, beans, and fruits. Doubtful, just by looking at my own blood levels.

I don't know, I'll be the first to admit I'm not an expert in nutrition or health. And perhaps there's some point I'm overlooking. I just want to highlight there's a whole lot of people deficient in nutrients and they're not vegan. And on the flipside, I seem to be doing fine, even after 8 years on this shtick (barring the vitamin D thing).

That said, @JayR, I think you'll be fine deficiencies-wise. Though if you do get any deficiencies, let us know. I'd definitely (for obvious personal health reasons) would be interested to know. I'm not kidding, right now despite being vegan I'm biased against veganism. I want to be as critical as I can be of it and leave no stone unturned, so that if it's really not good for me I can eject out.

Same with the the testosterone thing:

Vegans get critized for low testosterone levels. This may be an accurate criticism though and one I'm exploring personally: I got tested a few months ago, my levels came back on the low end. I also tested extremely low for vitamin D (dangerously low). Very low vitamin D is correlated with low T-levels. I'll be supplemented hard and consistently for the next few months and see if that makes a difference. I'm also going to cut out the alcohol (guess that means fewer dates) and go to the gym more regularly. I'll go from there. If T levels are good, then great. If not, I'll keep experimenting. And if even with an optimal lifestyle (8 hours of sleep, working out consistently, all the other stuff that improves T levels) nothing works, I will add in meat and see what happens. That'll be such a clean experiment though - to have everything on point except eating meat, yet still have low T --> start eating meat and see T levels rise.

Does veganism cause low T? This is a possibility. Though again, I'm a bit stupefied considering (once again) how many guys in the manosphere are suffering from low T levels. TRT seems to be the rage. What gives? Alex Juan Antonio Cortes was struggling with low T levels, and the guy is a personal trainer/Cerno's health expert. I'm genuinely confused because if that guy is having problems with his T levels (despite eating meat, going to the gym 5x a week, being jacked and I assume on point with his diet), something is wrong. I don't know. But I hope I find the answer in due time. It may just be TRT in the end.

I'm with questor on this - I think there's just so much contradictory stuff floating around, it's madly confusing.

Also one theory I'm entertaining right now: there's no optimal diet. If we assume mankind truly is a Rube Goldberg machine that went through different environments at different times, we might've evolved to be a flex-fuel kind of mammal. No real optimal diet, anything can work moderately well (at least to keep you alive).

One thing I look for are the trade-offs. There's always a trade-off to everything in life. I've been moving away recently from the black-and-white view I have of life (I think a lot of the manosphere has the same issue though). Life's complicated as hell, and I'm not sure there is an optimal diet. What's the trade-off with diet. I'm not sure. But here's one possibility I'm entertaining: short-term muscle/testosterone versus long-term health: IGF-1 is implicated in the growth of muscles. It's also implicated in the growth of cancers. Basically, it's implicated in the growth of cells. Taller people also die faster than shorter people (for the same reason) - something people forget when talking about the Blue Zones, where people live over the age of 100, is that they're also on the shorter end. Is that the trade-off for being taller? You, on average, die quicker? Could potentially also explain the discrepancy between life expectancy between men and women. The taller stature and more muscularity of men mean we die faster of cancer (and possibly other age-related diseases). Meaning it's quite possible that to bulk up in your 20s and 30s you also heavily increase the chances of getting cancer in your 70s.

To reiterate: I really don't know. I'm just throwing stuff out there, partly to help organize everything I know and partly to show a different perspective.

Regardless, good look to everyone on their journey for better health. Life's already hard as it is - hope everyone finds their best health.

PS

Quote:

Why does anyone care what it makes their shit smell like? Do you offer it to your potential bangs to woo them or something?

I don't know about that, but I've had a bunch of girls comment my semen tastes really good. I thought that was weird, so I looked it up and apparently it's because of the lack of meat/lots of fruits. So at least I got that going

[Kaizen]

(11-10-2017 03:51 AM)king bast Wrote:  

The typical pattern of a persons experimenting with veganism is that when they start paying strict attention to their diet, as veganism requires, they cut out all kinds of harmful bullshit along with the animal products, so for the first few weeks, they feel fantastic.

But this initial bliss is short lived, as slowly but surely, the deficiencies set in and their body starts transforming into that of a pale, weak lethargic, sickly vegan weed. But they don't recognize that deficiencies are why they start feeling like shit, as they just remember how great they felt in those first few weeks. They think it must be something else, and double down on the veganism, thus accelerating the process.

They're like drug addicts, always chasing that incredible feeling they got from their first time, slowly killing themselves trying to replicate it and never being able to do so.

Tried veganism for a few months. Felt perfectly fine. Likely better than when eating meat.

Like many people however, It's simply hard to follow. You might be at a party when there are no other options. You have something there. From there, the wheels come off.

[Praetor Lupus]

(11-10-2017 01:23 AM)Conscious Pirate Wrote:  

I won't trust a man who's aftershit aura doesn't make me wince.

I'm not confident I'll find a more hilarious quote this year.

[911]

(11-15-2017 04:41 PM)Kaizen Wrote:  

Tried veganism for a few months. Felt perfectly fine. Likely better than when eating meat.

Maybe if you've had better quality meats (including lots of fish), you'd feel even better.

[TooFineAPoint]

For me personally, a modified paleo diet works best (paleo plus high-quality cheese, grass-fed butter, soaked non-GMO oats, and occasionally high-quality sourdough or rye bread).

But since bodies are different, I could also see a modified pescatarian diet being amazing (as long as they avoid soy and get high quality eggs).

But veganism, I don't see it.

First off, no one is strict vegan because we all required milk when babies.

Even allowing for the mother's milk, show me someone who lived strict vegan their wholes live until 40 without any health problems or looking like a wraith.

Perhaps if you have a certain type of genetics, and you were not vegan during puberty, then an early adult or late adult run of veganism could be a nice switch-up (short term) for the body.

[HankMoody]

What it's like to date a vegan...

"Yo babe, I'm making reservations for Steak House tonight."
"There's nothing I can eat there!"
"Well, you can actually eat everything on the menu. There are simply items you choose not to eat. And the green beans, potato skins, and salads are all on point. There's plenty of stuff you can choose to eat that aren't made of animal. Me? I'm gonna get a big ribeye."
"That's so gross! I hate how much meat you eat. Did you know that blah blah blah blah blah? And that for every animal you eat blah blah blah blah blah? I know a really good place with soy lattes."
"Um, soy latte is what's left over in my dishwasher after eating an actual meal."

Everywhere you go is a big issue because there is "nothing I can eat." Ballgames, restaurants, family dinners, you name it. Everything revolves around her fucking diet. Plus, all of the soapbox speeches get super annoying, and it also means she'll be friends with some pretty crusty girls.

What's more annoying is most vegans don't even eat vegetables, they want Morning Star Farms, tempeh, processed soy, and stuff that tastes like meat but isn't meat, even though it's terrible. Suggest a nice salad with onions, peppers, olive oil, vinegar, and mushrooms? "Ewww, I don't eat that. Mushrooms are gross!" If you want to be a vegan, it means your diet should be mostly vegetables. Not fake meat from the supermarket.

For the most part, I eat pescatarian. I'm not opposed to eating any animal for any reason, I just prefer fish and vegetables. Some days I don't eat any meat or even fish whatsoever -- just veggies cooked in ghee and garlic.

[HankMoody]

(11-16-2017 06:24 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

For me personally, a modified paleo diet works best (paleo plus high-quality cheese, grass-fed butter, soaked non-GMO oats, and occasionally high-quality sourdough or rye bread).

But since bodies are different, I could also see a modified pescatarian diet being amazing (as long as they avoid soy and get high quality eggs).

But veganism, I don't see it.

First off, no one is strict vegan because we all required milk when babies.

Even allowing for the mother's milk, show me someone who lived strict vegan their wholes live until 40 without any health problems or looking like a wraith.

Perhaps if you have a certain type of genetics, and you were not vegan during puberty, then an early adult or late adult run of veganism could be a nice switch-up (short term) for the body.

That's exactly what I eat.

Farm fresh eggs, everything non-GMO (almost always directly from the source), and meats only from a meat-share. I'm lucky to live in a major city where this stuff is easy to acquire. I don't eat dairy due to being lactose intolerant. Ghee, high end butter (Kerrygold), and some better cheeses in moderation don't cause me any issues.

Veganism makes no sense to me. There are no societies throughout history who have thrived on a vegan diet. It's particularly harmful to men, because cholesterol helps produce testosterone. That's why vegan men look so feminine.

[Genghis Khan]

(11-16-2017 06:24 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Even allowing for the mother's milk, show me someone who lived strict vegan their wholes live until 40 without any health problems or looking like a wraith.

Seba Johnson

Age: 44

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seba_Johnson

Quote:

the youngest alpine ski racer in Olympic history (she competed at age 14).

Quote:

her mother, Suzy, a New Hampshire native, raised Johnson and her half-sister exclusively. Suzy raised Johnson as a vegan from birth, and took her to animal rights protests from a young age.

Solid WB, even at her age.

[king bast]

WNB. Even in those heavily made-up and airbrushed glamour shots, her skin looks as rough as shark skin.

[911]

(11-16-2017 08:16 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 06:24 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Even allowing for the mother's milk, show me someone who lived strict vegan their wholes live until 40 without any health problems or looking like a wraith.

Seba Johnson

Age: 44

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seba_Johnson

Quote:

the youngest alpine ski racer in Olympic history (she competed at age 14).

Quote:

her mother, Suzy, a New Hampshire native, raised Johnson and her half-sister exclusively. Suzy raised Johnson as a vegan from birth, and took her to animal rights protests from a young age.

Solid WB, even at her age.

Child abuse victim, WNB.

[debeguiled]

(11-16-2017 08:10 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

What it's like to date a vegan...

"Yo babe, I'm making reservations for Steak House tonight."
"There's nothing I can eat there!"
"Well, you can actually eat everything on the menu. There are simply items you choose not to eat. And the green beans, potato skins, and salads are all on point. There's plenty of stuff you can choose to eat that aren't made of animal. Me? I'm gonna get a big ribeye."
"That's so gross! I hate how much meat you eat. Did you know that blah blah blah blah blah? And that for every animal you eat blah blah blah blah blah? I know a really good place with soy lattes."
"Um, soy latte is what's left over in my dishwasher after eating an actual meal."

Everywhere you go is a big issue because there is "nothing I can eat." Ballgames, restaurants, family dinners, you name it. Everything revolves around her fucking diet. Plus, all of the soapbox speeches get super annoying, and it also means she'll be friends with some pretty crusty girls.

What's more annoying is most vegans don't even eat vegetables, they want Morning Star Farms, tempeh, processed soy, and stuff that tastes like meat but isn't meat, even though it's terrible. Suggest a nice salad with onions, peppers, olive oil, vinegar, and mushrooms? "Ewww, I don't eat that. Mushrooms are gross!" If you want to be a vegan, it means your diet should be mostly vegetables. Not fake meat from the supermarket.

For the most part, I eat pescatarian. I'm not opposed to eating any animal for any reason, I just prefer fish and vegetables. Some days I don't eat any meat or even fish whatsoever -- just veggies cooked in ghee and garlic.

[The Beast1]

Historically, no one went vegan. It was silly because you were happy to eat whatever you got.

There are however mentions of individuals who did eat a pescatarian diet. Mostly academics living in small communities. Philip Melanchthon comes to mind (Martin Luther's friend during the reformation).

God gave me dominion over the plants and the animals. I see no problem enjoying a ribeye every now and then.

[TooFineAPoint]

(11-16-2017 08:16 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 06:24 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Even allowing for the mother's milk, show me someone who lived strict vegan their wholes live until 40 without any health problems or looking like a wraith.

Seba Johnson

Age: 44

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seba_Johnson

Fair play, you've proven that it's possible.

Now the question is, is it optimal?

[Genghis Khan]

(11-17-2017 06:07 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Fair play, you've proven that it's possible.

Now the question is, is it optimal?

It's a really good question and one I don't have the answer to.

In terms of raising kids vegan from birth, it's definitely a pretty new phenomenon - at least in modern recorded times. It's quite possible there was veganism abound some time in the past, maybe in civilizations experiencing a similar peak of wealth. That's my hypothesis as to why even vegetarianism became big in India - it occurred at the peak of ancient Indian civilization.

But we'll find out in about a decade or two. JayR mentioned Dr. Esselstyn. His son, Rip, has been vegan for over 30 years and is raising his kids as vegan (from birth). It'll be interesting to see if his and other vegan kids grow up to be normal adults or suffer from a growth stunt, psychological problems or a host of other issues. On the other hand, it'll also be interesting to see if the kids end up not having to deal with acne, type I diabetes and other issues that may be caused by animal products.

I really can't say at this point, and I'm not sure if anyone can. It very well may be that there is no optimal diet absolutely, but rather perhaps animal food is best when growing up and getting muscular in your 20s/30s, but you eventually have to drop it to not die from heart disease in your 50s. I guess we'll find out in due time.

[Only8sandup]

Vegan here. I personally don't care about animals at all. I love meat and used to eat a lot of it while bulking and working out consistently since the age of 17.

Decided to just do it as an experiment and holy f, after 2 months of it, I felt like a completely changed person. More positive and energetic, less anxiety and fearful of certain situations (*cough* meeting girls), surprisingly even gained weight, maintained muscle mass, use the bathroom less (went from a lot of stomach problems to almost NIL), don't need as much sleep (which is weird since I'm aging), notice better skin as well. The no dairy+eggs component helped tremendously too since I'm lactose intolerant anyway.

Honestly, it's changed my life and I recommend whoever may be interested to just try it out for a week. If you like it, stretch it out further to a month. If you don't like it, go back to your previous diet.