[Saladin]

http://www.torontolife.com/style/random-...on-centre/

Quote:

The 2005 bestselling memoir The Game unmasked the world of pickup artists: self-proclaimed Casanovas obsessed with scoring with hot women—or at least ones insecure enough to fall for strategies like “negging” (backhanded compliments) and “kino” (casual touches that pave the way for later advances). Regrettably, the sub-culture is still alive and well. What’s more, it’s flourishing at the Eaton Centre.

On Reddit and other online forums, dozens of women report being approached while shopping by persistent young guys with oddly rehearsed-sounding pickup lines. It turns out that several PUAs, as they’re known, run paid workshops and events at the mall for socially awkward dudes who are eager to learn how to talk to “targets” (i.e. women). According to one local pickup coach, the mall is “one of the world’s most popular day game locations.”

I'm personally not surprised. These dumbass dudes are going around mass approaching every girl directly, resulting in a lot of girls getting creeped out. Instead of Roosh's indirect subtlety they're carpet bombing the main mall in Toronto. I knew this was inevitable because of the lack of calibration and the way they all had to head to the mall. I blame it on RSD and all the direct daygame coaches.

This sucks, because the Eaton Centre is a solid place to meet girls and in the winter its one of the few warm indoor places. However these dumbasses somehow think treating the mall as a club is a smart idea. Its simply unsustainable and I always knew this would someday get media attention. Eaton Centre is a massive mall but the fact remains if you go in and spam approach people are going to notice. Instead of being subtle, and picking their approaches people are going over the top.

Anyways, the mall knows of it, and now thousands of women in downtown TO probably know about it as well.

The mall tweeted this-

Quote:

We have been alerted to a Pick Up Artists (PUA) meet up at 5pm. Rest assured security is briefed & your health & safety are our top priority

A friend of mine has said that he heard of someone getting arrested for "sexual harrasment" there. Don't know much about the details but I wouldn't surprised if cops and mall guards are on the lookout.

I wouldn't be surprised if girls are even more paranoid now about random guys.

[soup]

Wow, just wow.

Truth is that if you are going to go direct, you can't look like a loser. You have to look like good looking loser. That is, you have to really look like freakishly alpha- Either super buff, rockstar look, rich, famous looking, all that.

You can't go direct unless attraction is there.

These guys are probably all trying to hold on to their previous beta lives but not putting in the systemic effort to make themselves look as good as possible. That's my bet.


You want to look so good, that if the girl's friends found out that she passed you up, they'd tots put her down for it.

[kosko]

(12-07-2013 01:25 AM)soup Wrote:  

Wow, just wow.

Truth is that if you are going to go direct, you can't look like a loser. You have to look like good looking loser. That is, you have to really look like freakishly alpha- Either super buff, rockstar look, rich, famous looking, all that.

You can't go direct unless attraction is there.

These guys are probably all trying to hold on to their previous beta lives but not putting in the systemic effort to make themselves look as good as possible. That's my bet.


You want to look so good, that if the girl's friends found out that she passed you up, they'd tots put her down for it.

Toronto is just so bad it drives dudes to this level of groupthink and desperation. Just some lost souls searching for a messiah and a way. Anybody with a brain can tell you carpet bombing a mall with routines is a fuking red flag.

Majority of girls know about PUA culture and lines since evrey girl downtown has been approached a least 3 times by a "PUA". Girls will tell bouncers and shit now when they find "PUAs" in a club and try and get them kicked out. You can't run shitty routine shit her, it's all old news and gimmicky shit the girls all know.

Toronto is wear "game" was born and you are now seeing it die. This meetup thing was all over my Facebook with broads all commenting on how they have been approached by "creepy dudes on the streets downtown".

[soup]

(12-07-2013 01:33 AM)kosko Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 01:25 AM)soup Wrote:  

Wow, just wow.

Truth is that if you are going to go direct, you can't look like a loser. You have to look like good looking loser. That is, you have to really look like freakishly alpha- Either super buff, rockstar look, rich, famous looking, all that.

You can't go direct unless attraction is there.

These guys are probably all trying to hold on to their previous beta lives but not putting in the systemic effort to make themselves look as good as possible. That's my bet.


You want to look so good, that if the girl's friends found out that she passed you up, they'd tots put her down for it.

Toronto is just so bad it drives dudes to this level of groupthink and desperation. Just some lost souls searching for a messiah and a way. Anybody with a brain can tell you carpet bombing a mall with routines is a fuking red flag.

Majority of girls know about PUA culture and lines since evrey girl downtown has been approached a least 3 times by a "PUA". Girls will tell bouncers and shit now when they find "PUAs" in a club and try and get them kicked out. You can't run shitty routine shit her, it's all old news and gimmicky shit the girls all know.

Toronto is wear "game" was born and you are now seeing it die. This meetup thing was all over my Facebook with broads all commenting on how they have been approached by "creepy dudes on the streets downtown".

I think we should call that stuff something other than game, because if it isn't working than it isn't game. It's the old model.

[Saladin]

I don't think guys are doing routines as much as running really direct game which is in fashion currently.

I've never seen a guy do Mystery Method stuff, but I've seen lots of guy do direct style game.

In terms of clubs/bars, all guys approach pretty aggressively although there's difference in style. Naturals tend to more indirect and open with a question or an observation usually.

I know one guy who does pure direct in the daytime and pulls of it. He's good looking and has the latin stereotype down(down the Mexican accent), plus his vibe and game are tight.

Unless your shit is tight doing direct isn't the best idea. Most of the dudes you see out doing daygame are badly dressed, ugly, and have a shitty vibe.

[soup]

(12-07-2013 01:41 AM)torontokid Wrote:  

I don't think guys are doing routines as much as running really direct game which is in fashion currently.

I've never seen a guy do Mystery Method stuff, but I've seen lots of guy do direct style game.

In terms of clubs/bars, all guys approach pretty aggressively although there's difference in style. Naturals tend to more indirect and open with a question or an observation usually.

I know one guy who does pure direct in the daytime and pulls of it. He's good looking and has the latin stereotype down(down the Mexican accent), plus his vibe and game are tight.

Unless your shit is tight doing direct isn't the best idea. Most of the dudes you see out doing daygame are badly dressed, ugly, and have a shitty vibe.

Do these guys look cool, or are they nerdy/dork?

[kosko]

(12-07-2013 01:41 AM)torontokid Wrote:  

I don't think guys are doing routines as much as running really direct game which is in fashion currently.

I've never seen a guy do Mystery Method stuff, but I've seen lots of guy do direct style game.

In terms of clubs/bars, all guys approach pretty aggressively although there's difference in style. Naturals tend to more indirect and open with a question or an observation usually.

I know one guy who does pure direct in the daytime and pulls of it. He's good looking and has the latin stereotype down(down the Mexican accent), plus his vibe and game are tight.

Unless your shit is tight doing direct isn't the best idea. Most of the dudes you see out doing daygame are badly dressed, ugly, and have a shitty vibe.

^^^ that last line is very true. I can spot a "PUA" from a mile away from his body language and crappy clothes. They don't think of A-Z, only the approach. The cheesy line/routine based games don't work but many still try it.

I can't think of any other city that can boast 500 "PUAs" to show up for a single event. It's critical mass here in dudes looking for ways to pick up pussy.

[Saladin]

The actual meetup was only 7 people according to the cached version of the page, but the whole group is 850+ people.

500 PUAs out at once would be total mayhem.

[Pyre]

hahaha this tweet is funny

Quote:

We have been alerted to a Pick Up Artists (PUA) meet up at 5pm. Rest assured security is briefed & your health & safety are our top priority

PUAs vs Mall Rent-a-Cops

[soup]

What's going on up there? Toronto is full of feminists, legions of bad PUAs and Rob Ford.

[scotian]

(12-07-2013 02:11 AM)soup Wrote:  

What's going on up there? Toronto is full of feminists, legions of bad PUAs and Rob Ford.

Soup don't forget that their hockey team, the Leafs suck balls too. Who do you go for, Islanders or Rangers?

[soup]

(12-07-2013 02:43 AM)scotian Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 02:11 AM)soup Wrote:  

What's going on up there? Toronto is full of feminists, legions of bad PUAs and Rob Ford.

Soup don't forget that their hockey team, the Leafs suck balls too. Who do you go for, Islanders or Rangers?

I never got into hockey but it seems cool. I remember Wayne Gretsky.

[WanderingSoul]

I saw a meetup online for a Bangkok PUA daygame group that meets at a main mall here. Checked out some profiles and sure as shit, dudes in fedoras. Hope those dumb motherfuckers don't fuck it up for the rest of us.

Faggots in fedoras, with eye liner and painted nails. Is there a better way to guarantee you will get no pussy?

[soup]

[soup]

Weren't there riots up there also over bad hockey?

[Beyond Borders]

I can recall a handful of instances in the states when I'd be sitting at a table with a group of girls and get interrupted by some dorky guy using an opinion opener or some other kind of played-out line I read about years ago in The Game. I've even had this happen when I was in one-on-one situations...

I tried to just ignore it, and of course did not blow their cover, but I must admit I felt a little disrespected in some cases. I mean, I won't lie, I experimented with some of these things when they first came out too, and some did get a good response. But I was at least aware of basic male courtesy.

The social skills some of these guys think they have are extremely artificial, so run-of-the-mill bar dynamics, something normal guys understand intuitively, slip right past them. I imagine they ran back to their favorite forum flapping about how they "AMOG'ed" me (lol), leaving out the part where they went home alone...

If you want to crash and burn one bitch after another, get after it, but don't interfere with my game trying to build yours. Awkward bastards.

[Peregrine]

(12-07-2013 02:56 AM)soup Wrote:  

Weren't there riots up there also over bad hockey?

You're thinking of Vancouver. Toronto's too wussy to riot. And before you say G20, the belligerent protesters came from stateside.

[Teedub]

(12-07-2013 01:25 AM)soup Wrote:  

Wow, just wow.

Truth is that if you are going to go direct, you can't look like a loser. You have to look like good looking loser. That is, you have to really look like freakishly alpha- Either super buff, rockstar look, rich, famous looking, all that.

You can't go direct unless attraction is there.

Tom Torero, Yad and the other UK daygame guys (Krauser too, but he's better looking than the other two I mentioned) are pretty direct and they certainly don't look like rockstars or any of the things you mentioned. That said, they primarily game foreign chicks in London, for what it's worth.

[Celtic]

I wouldn't hate on them too much. Most men today are raised as betas and are not taught anything about how to get women. These people are actually going out there and putting in hard work to try to improve their game. Pretty much all of the advice, including froom Roosh is to practice as much as possible. These people are looking to mentors who have the results they want and following their advice.

The blame ought to go the gurus teaching bad game. Maybe it was effective in some LA clubs back in the 90s, but if you take a dorky dude, dress him up with a bunch of wacky eyeliner and rockstar clothes, and repeat off a bunch of canned routines, you've got a disaster coming. They're getting bad advice to turn themselves into cartoon carictures with a bunch of memorized negs and whatnot when they'd be alot better off working on general self improvement.

It's also absurd the articles is talking about this like it was some sort of dangerous threat. They're to portray PUA as dangerous predators- but usually will try to engage in conversation, and if the girl doesn't show interest, he'll move on to the next girls. I used to part one of these groups of a few years and I've never heard of anyone in that scene actually hurting a girl or stalking one who says she isn;t interested in. If you look at the comments in that article, they're trying to define bad game as "sexual harassment". They want it to be that if you talk a girl and she's not interested that you've commited some sort of crime.

Maybe its related to a decline in social skills in the smartphone era? We can't expect a girl to communicate "Sorry, I'm busy" or "Sorry, we're in the middle of a conversation right now"- so we need to define any failed approach as sexual harassment.

[Que enspastic]

Girls getting approached by guys they don't find attractive is the same as us guys getting approached by land whales.

If land whale/war pig cross hybrids were approaching en masse as we shopped at the supermarket I'd like some security to take out the mace and handcuffs so I don't have to worry about an assault conviction.

[The Beast1]

Indirect, indirect, indirect.

That is the sign of a true player versus a weak one. Direct game doesn't work unless you are 100% there. No excuses

[Roosh]

The PUA instructors who organized this event have done two things wrong:

1. Encouraged all participants to use only one line (a questionable "you're so beautiful" line).
2. Pushed them to mass approach in an area where supply seems to be limited.

Here's a girl saying how she got approached a few times: http://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments...on_centre/

So because the PUA instructors wanted to get paid for their workshop, they over-saturated a venue and drew negative attention that will make it hard for any guy to pick up there for the next month or two.

We can lay blame on the instructors, but then again the anger to this is way out of proportion. Is it really that bad that guys approach girls and give them compliments in the hope of getting laid? To learn PUA, even bad PUA, takes a certain amount of guts, and until these angry people propose a better alternative for these guys to meet women instead of OK Cupid, it will continue.

[Roosh]

Quote:

Indirect, indirect, indirect.

Yes, indirect game is best in a more hostile environments like America and Canada, especially one where women are quick to call security or complain on the internet when you approach them directly. I designed elderly approaching for American targets.

In Eastern European, a direct approach is likely to go off much better in enclosed environments like malls.

[Roosh]

Second highest rated comment:

Quote:

At least the Eaton Centre is taking it seriously. They've tweeted that they're aware of event, and that they're prepared to deal with this proposed mandated sexual harassment (because that's what this is). Harassment is a crime in Canada, and the Eaton Centre is private property. This whole pick-up phenomenon is based on the premise that women are objects, not people. It's not just taking advantage of women either, it's also based on the assumption that men are only after "the lay" and not a legitimate human connection. Just awful.

[The Beast1]

(12-07-2013 08:03 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

Indirect, indirect, indirect.

Yes, indirect game is best in a more hostile environments like America and Canada, especially one where women are quick to call security or complain on the internet when you approach them directly. I designed elderly approaching for American targets.

In Eastern European, a direct approach is likely to go off much better in enclosed environments like malls.

Even then if it is indirect, I've had a fair bit of success just going up to girls who just smile at me and asking them back, "Hey how are you doing?" The difference being, I only go up to girls who notice me and smile back which happens to be a semi decent amount.

The carpet bomb mentality is a waste of time and obviously gives the PUA brands a bad name. These guys need to understand open body language, no mystery style clothing, and how to have a conversation (not using routines).