[runsonmagic]

How many forum members have tried the protocols popular fitness books?

I ask because I was looking at the Occam's Protocol 4 Hour Body by Tim Ferriss recently. While I lost a significant amount of weight on the diet (40 pounds in two months), I haven't tried the lifting program, because I haven't heard any success stories from those who've tried the protocol.

I suspect the men of this forum have tried a lot of different programs before finding the one that worked for them, and mind be able to help steer others towards ones that work with their collective experience and reviews.

If you've done a program or fitness book - 4 Hour Body, Convict Conditioning, Starting Strength, Body by Science, Engineering the Alpha, P90x, Grow Stronger (Elliot Hulse), to name a few - post your experience with it. What was the program, how much did you gain, how hard was it to execute, what did you have to change or find was different from what the book said, etc.

The test of any fitness book is how well it's program works in real life, so let's share some results.

[Roadrunner]

Don't be picky, just pick a program. No matter what book you pick off the ones you gave, you will experience a positive benefit. What you are asking for, testimonials, doesn't only test the program but also the person on the program, so keep in mind you may have better or worse results depending on factors such as dedication. With that said here is my data:
Convict Conditioning and intermittent fasting with a protein high, carb-low diet (semi-paleo): I lost 55 pounds total and got much stronger, my build is considerably more muscular than average now.
Edit: Body by science is a fascinating and immensely useful database as well.

[Pyre]

Man 2.0 Engineering the Alpha is sick as fuck. Get you ripped and feeling great FAST.

[Hades]

Convict Conditioning gave me mixed results. Sure I got better at chinups and pullups, but there just isn't enough volume in it to be effective. The author himself did not use his own program - he just did as much volume as he could cram into a day given his situation (prison). I don't trust the book anymore.
If he started talking real shit, like doing 5 sets of 15 reps for a progression standard, or doing thirty sets of singles (that will build up one's pistol squat in a hurry), I would not complain. If he is who he says he is, he's probably too advanced to know what makes new trainees grow, which is a shitload of volume.
Nobody on the Barstarzz/Barbarians/Madbarzz forums will tell you to skimp on volume, and most of them are jacked to shit.

Starting Strength is pretty good. I got fatter (not a big problem), a lot stronger, but upper body did not grow enough. You should be pressing every workout if you're only working out 3 days per week. Some guys stick to SS for a year or more (insane). After a time you almost must start going to the gym 4 to 5 days per week.

4 Hour Body, Engineering the Alpha, etc; probably all crap. Haven't looked into them, but inevitably when you have a book that makes too many promises it's a lot of shitty lifting advice and hawking of supplements.

I quit recommending as many books. New guys are inundated with advice that they don't need, overwhelmed with bullshit about overtraining and what they shouldn't do, taught to adopt the same self-limiting beliefs of their "coaches" ; all that they need is a lot of motivation and basic instruction in a few lifts.

You can forge yourself into a brick shithouse on a diet of weighted dips, weighted chins, deadlifts, and military press. Maybe some front squatting or cleans to round everything out, but you get the picture. Just take five or six basic lifts and attack them with a reckless abandon and you'll be a lot bigger than 80% of the dickheads on the Starting Strength forums.

[NuMbEr7]

edit

[WanderingSoul]

The Texas Method or Madcow are good after ss. I did Texas method and brought my bench to 225x5 and squat to 355x3. Possibly not the best for body building, but good strength gains.

[NuMbEr7]

Any recommendations for a program that has strength and hypertrophy? I've gotten a lot stronger on SS but I haven't gotten that much bigger (especially upper body)

[redonion]

(11-26-2013 07:27 AM)NuMbEr7 Wrote:  

Any recommendations for a program that has strength and hypertrophy? I've gotten a lot stronger on SS but I haven't gotten that much bigger (especially upper body)

I'm a huge fan of Wendler's 5/3/1 program. For the hypertrophy aspect I'd recommend doing the Boring But Big (BBB) assistance template after your main workout. BBB is just 5x10 of the 4 main lifts at 50% of your 1RM.

[johnwu]

Convict Conditioning was a nice book to introduced me to calisthenics. I would suggest calisthenics, just be sure to not neglect any muscle group and to start slow. Better to slowly progress and not hurt yourself doing something you weren't ready for or burn out and end up not working out consistently. Working out shouldn't be a chore that you rush through, it should be an activity that you savor.

Video with many beginner-expert level exercises:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POdzasJklxw
More indepth tutorials:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7...re=mh_lolz

Don't forget about cardio either!

Even if you typically just do weights, or X style of exercise, it is always good to switch it up every so often.

In the end, unless you are trying to be a body builder, all that really matters is that you work out consistently.

[Checkmat]

Starting Strength



My introduction to strength training. Learning the mechanics for squatting and deadlifting was the #1 best takeaway from Rip's material.

I actually have never tried 5x5 or the Texas Method but they are lauded by many and I know strong motherfuckers who use the Texas Method as advanced lifters with much success.

5/3/1



I've used 5/3/1 off and on for a couple of years. Saw steady strength gains in all areas except for the bench press, for whatever reason. Others I've spoken to have said the same.

Westside Barbell Book of Methods



The Westside book itself is way overpriced, bloated an unorganized. I recommend against it because the Westside Method is available online for free.

I used the Westside method when I started powerlifting. I got great gains in the bench from it and moderate gains in the squat and deadlift. Very fun way to train in my opinion because of the constantly changing of lifts.

Reverse Pyramid Training



The best method for strength gains I've used thus far. Training 3 days a week and only 2 sets per lift. Ultra minimalist but gains just keep coming. Best lifts using this program were a +100lbsx3 chin up set, 20-rep set of bodyweight chins, squat 295x9 and deadlift 385x5 all at a bodyweight of <170lbs.

Highly recommended if you have the basic motor pathways down.

[metalhaze]

Starting strenght is not a bodybuilding book.
In my opinion one of the best and most recent BB books out there is
"Strength Training Anatomy workout vol. 2 " by delavier and gundill. Highly valuable info, pics and drawings.

[Pyre]

(11-26-2013 01:11 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Engineering the Alpha, etc; probably all crap. Haven't looked into them, but inevitably when you have a book that makes too many promises it's a lot of shitty lifting advice and hawking of supplements.

No, Engineering the Alpha is great. I've been lifting seriously 8 yrs and this book has kicked me in the ass. Great training and diet regime. I've seen great results in only 6 weeks.

Check something out before you knock it.

[runsonmagic]

(11-26-2013 02:57 PM)Pyre Wrote:  

(11-26-2013 01:11 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Engineering the Alpha, etc; probably all crap. Haven't looked into them, but inevitably when you have a book that makes too many promises it's a lot of shitty lifting advice and hawking of supplements.

No, Engineering the Alpha is great. I've been lifting seriously 8 yrs and this book has kicked me in the ass. Great training and diet regime. I've seen great results in only 6 weeks.

Check something out before you knock it.

I got the book myself, but made the mistake of trying to start it while staying with friends for three months. I found complying with the dietary calorie counting extremely difficult when I was eating communal meals, and didn't have control over what was being cooked. Simply following the slow-carb method was a lot easier, because it gave me a simple rule of thumb for picking what was on the table. Plus, the small gym I was at didn't have a lot of the more obscure equipment he requires in some workouts - which the author insists you can't substitute or change.

Of course, that isn't to say that you can't get really ripped on the book. A lot of the advice (supplement choices, intermediate fasting, etc.) I already follow. I'm certain doing the full program would produce results. But as others have said, the best program is the one you can follow through on, and total control over meals, calorie counting, and trying to find a gym with every piece of equipment proved too difficult for me.

Part of the reason I'm looking at stuff like Occom's Protocal and Convict Conditioning is compliance seems much more easy. I already lost 40 pounds in two months following the 4HB diet, so it's claims there proved true. The workout advice it suggests is deliberately super minimalist. And convict conditioning has the advantage of not needing a gym, which is great for someone who travels a lot like myself.

[MrXY]

Best book on ab workouts ever. My copy has been used so much it's falling apart

[mikeymike]

(11-26-2013 02:57 PM)Pyre Wrote:  

(11-26-2013 01:11 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Engineering the Alpha, etc; probably all crap. Haven't looked into them, but inevitably when you have a book that makes too many promises it's a lot of shitty lifting advice and hawking of supplements.

No, Engineering the Alpha is great. I've been lifting seriously 8 yrs and this book has kicked me in the ass. Great training and diet regime. I've seen great results in only 6 weeks.

Check something out before you knock it.

there's a difference between spending time at the gym and knowing what you're doing there, if that book taught you anything after 8 years, you wasted a huge chunk of those 8 years not knowing what you were doing. It's basic if, carb cycling and compound movements, what's the magic?

[CaP7]

"Turn up the Heat," Phillip Goglia. I was referred to him for a nutritionist in Santa Monica. I bought his book instead. Very useful info for body recomposition.

Got me to finally give up dairy, most processed carbs, and drinking tons of water.

I've seen a lot of improvement s this year. A real. Gem.

[Pyre]

(11-27-2013 12:05 AM)mikeymike Wrote:  

(11-26-2013 02:57 PM)Pyre Wrote:  

(11-26-2013 01:11 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Engineering the Alpha, etc; probably all crap. Haven't looked into them, but inevitably when you have a book that makes too many promises it's a lot of shitty lifting advice and hawking of supplements.

No, Engineering the Alpha is great. I've been lifting seriously 8 yrs and this book has kicked me in the ass. Great training and diet regime. I've seen great results in only 6 weeks.

Check something out before you knock it.

there's a difference between spending time at the gym and knowing what you're doing there, if that book taught you anything after 8 years, you wasted a huge chunk of those 8 years not knowing what you were doing. It's basic if, carb cycling and compound movements, what's the magic?

Did you do the program, are you just picking a fight with me to pick a fight?

The book is great.

[Kaizen]

Anyone have info on 'bigger, leaner, stronger' ?

Considering starting this

[mikeymike]

(11-28-2013 11:09 AM)Pyre Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 12:05 AM)mikeymike Wrote:  

(11-26-2013 02:57 PM)Pyre Wrote:  

(11-26-2013 01:11 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Engineering the Alpha, etc; probably all crap. Haven't looked into them, but inevitably when you have a book that makes too many promises it's a lot of shitty lifting advice and hawking of supplements.

No, Engineering the Alpha is great. I've been lifting seriously 8 yrs and this book has kicked me in the ass. Great training and diet regime. I've seen great results in only 6 weeks.

Check something out before you knock it.

there's a difference between spending time at the gym and knowing what you're doing there, if that book taught you anything after 8 years, you wasted a huge chunk of those 8 years not knowing what you were doing. It's basic if, carb cycling and compound movements, what's the magic?

Did you do the program, are you just picking a fight with me to pick a fight?

The book is great.

I read the book but it didn't teach me anything I didn't already know, it was a fine book for guys who are getting in to lifting and didn't know anything but 8 years in, if you don't know those basics, then what were you doing? I'm not picking a fight but what is the big secret revealed here, this was basic info he just did the work of putting it into idiot proof steps for you, if you couldn't do this for yourself then you wasted a lot of time and then I could see how you'd think it was great but I've been lifting 20+ years this book was hardly reinventing the wheel.

[Pyre]

of course the exercises are basic. they are all freeweight and cables. the book's not supposed to "teach" you exercises.

but the training regimen is great. alternating months of density and frequency with a clear cut circuit to kick your ass.

the biggest problem everyone has with books is they read them and think to themselves, "I already know how to do this, this book isnt that great." But how many people commit to actually doing it as presented? Very few...whether its with game advice, workout advice, or investing advice. To those that do, they reap the benefits.

[mikeymike]

(11-28-2013 04:49 PM)Pyre Wrote:  

of course the exercises are basic. they are all freeweight and cables. the book's not supposed to "teach" you exercises.

but the training regimen is great. alternating months of density and frequency with a clear cut circuit to kick your ass.

the biggest problem everyone has with books is they read them and think to themselves, "I already know how to do this, this book isnt that great." But how many people commit to actually doing it as presented? Very few...whether its with game advice, workout advice, or investing advice. To those that do, they reap the benefits.

bottom line is do what works for ya...but I don't need to do the routine to know what it is, I've been at this long enough to know what he's trying to achieve and the day a book made for the masses can kick my ass harder than I can kick it myself is the day I quit lifting...this is hardly rocket science, density and frequency are just his buzzwords, replace them with muscle confusion and periodization and you've got somebody elses similar program and switch it up again to another set of buzzwords and you've got yet another, these are just terms made upto to sell these programs but the training theories have been around for decades, as I said he's not reinventing the wheel, just showing those who haven't seen the wheel what one looks like...and 8 years or not you hadn't seen it or this wouldn't be so mind blowing to ya. I can show ya a 100 guys who have never read that book but are applying similar principles today...all he did was write it down and make it easy to follow there is nothing new or exotic here. So yeah it's a fine read for a new novice lifter but anybody who takes this shit seriously should've been all over this info ages ago. I'm sounding a bit dick-ish here and I know that, and I apologize for that but I'm just saying temper your expectations if youve been at this a while.

[Hades]

(11-26-2013 07:08 AM)NuMbEr7 Wrote:  

(11-26-2013 01:11 AM)Hades Wrote:  

If he is who he says he is, he's probably too advanced to know what makes new trainees grow, which is a shitload of volume.

How much volume are we talking?

(11-26-2013 01:11 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Some guys stick to SS for a year or more (insane). After a time you almost must start going to the gym 4 to 5 days per week.

What program do you recommend to do after SS?

I wrote a big post talking shit about Convict Conditioning but cut most of it, it's not worth doing. There's just too many questions about the validity of CC for it to be viable. For volume I'm talking about (for instance) doing two or three calisthenic movements per day, maybe six days per week - training each movement two or three times a week.

Set and rep schemes would depend. For an "easier" movement like pushups I'd go all the way up to 5 sets of 15 or 20 reps. If you're working something more difficult like pistol squats, I would do ten sets (minimum) of however many reps you can complete - one or two, or even three reps to start with. The gist is that volume must be much higher than two sets of five reps or whatever his stupid progression standards are.

There's just so many questions that CC fails to answer. Did "Coach" Paul Wade really earn the trust and admiration of his fellow inmates by teaching them pushups and squats, with his (paltry) set and rep schemes? Where did he come up with those?

Did he actually recommend they not hit every lift, every day, even considering you haven't got shit to do in prison?

Does he actually expect people to make gains in a lift on a diet of five reps per week? This is exactly what the program can recommend. Insane, right?

How could a system like that actually have been field tested?

Once CC went out on the market and many serious fitness guys started levelling criticism at it, "Coach" Paul Wade went oddly quiet about how "barbells are trash compared to bodyweight strength".

I think he wrote the book hoping that a bunch of athletes would pick it up and "swear by it", but where are all the jacked guys doing nothing but CC? Nowhere to be found. I don't even know a guy who has developed a one armed chin from the book, and I've looked everywhere.

If you want quality literature hit up the Foundation Series or Building The Gymnastic Body by Coach Sommer. Or Never Gymless by Ross Enamait.

If you want good motivation, and information about training from guys who really bust ass and push the limits, go to Barstarzz, Madbarz, Barbarians, any of those bar calisthenic websites.

As for programs, once you have Starting Strength over and done with, and you've milked it's gains, you can invent your own program. That's what people did back in the days before internet, they'd create their own programs. I would argue that the strongest guys in the world use absolutely no workout program.

If you must have information I would just read The Science and Practice of Strength Training by Zatsiorsky and (keeping those principles in mind) just add and subtract from Starting Strength's routine already and keep it going from there. That's like the holy grail of training books. Elite level powerlifters whose gains have stalled have applied rules from that book to make their squats/deadlifts/press/etc. start moving up again. I would also get any books by Pavel Tsatsouline. Those Russians really know their shit.

[Roadrunner]

(11-29-2013 12:25 AM)Hades Wrote:  

I wrote a big post talking shit about Convict Conditioning but cut most of it, it's not worth doing. There's just too many questions about the validity of CC for it to be viable.

Did "Coach" Paul Wade really earn the trust and admiration of his fellow inmates by teaching them pushups and squats, with his (paltry) set and rep schemes?

Did he actually recommend they not hit every lift, every day, even considering you haven't got shit to do in prison?

Does he actually expect people to make gains in a lift on a diet of five reps per week? Insane, right?

How could a system like that actually have been field tested?

I recommend the use of convict conditioning for the specific exercises and progressions. I personally have my own workout regimen, I simply workout to positive muscle failure. I do think, however, that you have a point about not having enough volume in CC.

[WanderingSoul]

Hades, you checked out Yuri Verkhoshansky? Another Russian you may enjoy.

[Hades]

(11-29-2013 12:50 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Hades, you checked out Yuri Verkhoshansky? Another Russian you may enjoy.

I googled him and it says he is the "father of plyometrics". Very interesting, I'll have to check that out. Always wanted to have a good vertical leap.

(11-29-2013 12:48 AM)SexualHarrasmentPanda Wrote:  

I recommend the use of convict conditioning for the specific exercises and progressions. I personally have my own workout regimen, I simply workout to positive muscle failure. I do think, however, that you have a point about not having enough volume in CC.

Yeah I should have written some of the positive takewaways of CC. Not sure why, I've just been in a negative mood lately.

1. "Big" bodyweight compound movements to practice.
2. Once you 'master' the one armed chin, the handstand pushup, and the pistol squat you will look great, be very strong, and have plenty of muscle.
3. Adequate instruction on each of the lifts.
4. Great mobility movements - i.e; the bridge, the l-sit, and the twist.

What do you consider positive muscle failure? Also great that you've made your own workouts.