[j r]

(11-17-2013 07:15 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

I've never understood how letting poor and uneducated immigrants into a country is supposed to help that country.

Can someone explain it to me? I only went to a state university, sorry.

It helped America. The difference was that, at the time, America had no welfare state to exploit an expectation that immigrants would assimilate.

I've got no problem with immigration. It's the welfare state that needs reforming.

[Quintus Curtius]

This is a controversial issue, but when all is said and done, I have to sympathize with my British brothers here at RVF. I will try to explain myself.

I take as a starting point the idea that any nation or people has a right to protect its identity, and to a reasonable extent, its borders. To say otherwise is to deny any group any legitimacy. Culture is bound up with identity, and has to be learned to be transmitted from one generation to another. This is why I support France's banning of overtly Islamic dress in its schools: because such conduct is a direct affront to the government's reasonable goal to create a cohesive society.

I have had some exposure to the Romani people (Gypsies). I had some contact with them while in Bosnia and Croatia. It was not a pleasant experience. I and the Greeks I worked with could do nothing with them. They were surly, hostile, and full of trickery. I have to be honest, and relate what I myself observed: and no one who was not there has any right to judge me on this.

There is a culture among the Romani of deliberately avoiding work, of tricking or taking advantage of the outsider, and of refusing to abide by the laws of their host countries. Their culture does not respect education or learning. This is simply undeniable to anyone who has seen these things with his own eyes. No country should be expected to tolerate such behavior. This passage was taken from the Wikipedia article on Romani culture:

"In the Czech Republic, 75% of Romani children are educated in schools for people with learning difficulties and 70% are unemployed, compared with a national rate of 9%. In Hungary, 44% of Romani children are in special schools, while 74% of men and 83% of women are unemployed. In Slovakia, Romani children are 28 times more likely to be sent to a special school than non-Romani, whilst Romani unemployment stands at 80%.[21]
In some countries, dependence on social security systems is part of the problem. For some Romanies families, it may be preferable to live on social security compared to low-paid jobs. That creates many new problems: anger against Romanies, conditions that produce crime, and extreme sensitivity to changes in social security. A good example of the latter is Slovakia, where reduction of social security (a family is paid allowance only for the first three children) led to civil disorder in several Romani villages.
Seven former Communist Central European and Southeastern European states launched the Decade of Roma Inclusion initiative in 2005 to improve the socioeconomic conditions and status of the Romani minority."

The irony is that while the Roma people complain about unfair treatment, they themselves practice the severest racism and segregation of their own women and people. Outsiders are not welcome in Roma society.

If I were British, I would resent the fact that Roma, or anyone else, take advantage of the asylum or immigration laws to get on the public dole, and then embrace scamming as a way of life. It has nothing to do with racism or bigotry. It is simply a matter of not wanting to see one's country inundated with parasites.

I suppose it can reasonably be said that European governments caused the problem themselves by embracing extreme multi-cultural philosophies, where one cannot judge anyone for anything or speak the truth about any minority, no matter how terrible their behavior. So, unfortunately, Britain and the EU are reaping what they have sewn. Biological organisms will always seek the path of least resistance. European governments' failure to understand basic human behavior has meant that their populations are having to suffer.

[Citlalli]

(11-17-2013 01:43 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

^

1) The DM gets the amount of hate it gets because it's the only paper that isn't completely ravaged by cultural marxism. Sure, it over exaggerates and gives immigrants (amongst other things) too much stick, but every paper has an editorial agenda. It is also trendy to knock the Mail, and most people who think they are "halfway intelligent" as you put it, usually aren't. Heck, go and look on the Guardian website and read through the comments sections... All those people will think they're super smart intellectuals, when the actuality is far different.

2) True, but why import more problems. Especially, when you're paying for the people to behave that way.

3) They're called 'parasites' because most haven't paid anything in. Ever.

4) I didn't call Tuthmosis anything, scandibro did. However, I did agree partially in the fact that he appears to be 'progressive' in certain areas, but not in most. I don't know what the big deal is.

Finally, you seem very defensive and almost angry that I made this thread, why? Are you really suggesting that Roma Gypsies are a good, productive, polite group of people to live side by side with?

Hey, I wasn't directly addressing you with all the points I made but yes if I seem defensive it's because of the general lack of empathy on this board regarding issues like immigration. I do also find the Romani culture fascinating (how can you not?), but I cannot comment on what it's like to live with them because I haven't had the experience to do so, in the meantime I'm not going to listen to the misplaced sensationalisms of the Daily Mail to come to any conclusions.

Since you mentioned the Guardian here's the other side of the story: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/...-sheffield

[Teedub]

Sorry man, but I can't take the Guardian seriously. I feel the way about that paper as you do about the Mail. It's just apology after apology from that hard-left rag. I'm surprised you read it considering it is so beloved of feminism, and the feminists of it.

P.S I don't personally find the Roma culture "fascinating" if I'm honest.

[Citlalli]

I didn't say take the word of the Guardian as gospel but if you want an unbiased view of current affairs then the more news sources and opinions you engage in the more accurate of a picture you can get.

[soup]

The gypsies were poor people in India conscripted to fight the Persians in ancient times. Instead of going back to back to the shit life in India, they hit the road. A lot of them developed photographic memories- true Darwinian evolution taking place, so they could navigate. They are the greatest musicians on the planet and gave us the greatest guitar player who ever lived- django Reinhardt.

They have been around Europe for thousands of years, and are the bastard step children of the whites. Europe would definitely not have the culture and art it has today if the gypsies weren't around.

Their situation is problematic. In remany ways they are the original anarchists. you can't just pretend that these people don't exist.

There are many different tribes within their population. They are very redpill in the sense that they live old school with their women. The women cook and clean and take care of the kids.

[Sawyer]

(11-17-2013 02:32 PM)Citlalli Wrote:  

I didn't say take the word of the Guardian as gospel but if you want an unbiased view of current affairs then the more news sources and opinions you engage in the more accurate of a picture you can get.

Why should it take numerous sources to counter the simple idea that people have a right to their own place and to decorate it culturally, legally and otherwise as they see fit? What about the Roma's empathy for the English? Why would it be wrong for the traditional English people to swoop their country from the cultural Marxists? It wouldn't be wrong, in the scheme of things, would it?

[Mekorig]

Yeah, and they tend to kell the women if they marry outside the Roma comunity at worst, exile them at best.

[Roosh]

If you don't hate gypsies, you simply haven't been exposed to them. I like to think of myself as open-minded, but their unwavering anti-work ethic is revolting. They have a culture of begging and stealing, and every time you see a "poor" gypsy kid, understand that his parents are forcing him to that because they see him as a means of income and nothing more. It's quite a jackpot for a gypsy father to have a beautiful daughter, because he can sell her to an older man for a nice price.

[CaliforniaSupreme]

(11-17-2013 03:31 AM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

^ did you read the full article? It says they actually took the girl from another Bulgarian gypsy because she couldn't afford to raise her, and it sounds like the took the girl with the mothers consent. Looks like in this case the media and government were the assholes.

It's not legal a legal adoption, and it'll probably wreak havoc on the kid's personality and mentality growing up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ouple.html
Look at how disgusting this is

I generally dislike Gypsies because their culture is full of bullshit. They're stuck in the past, and they are inherently thieves. My dad had a Roma-run business next door to his, they were evicted in a couple months because they just didn't care to pay and began to squat there. They stole all the plumbing, the toilet, brass piping, electrical wires, broke doors, and broke off and stole parts of the metal shop door and fence. When the landlord pressed charges, they vanished. These people need to stick to themselves and go back where they came from. We don't need people like these coming to the US and causing trouble when we give them an opportunity to make a new life for themselves.

If any of you have seen my big fat gypsy wedding, it shows how weird and undesirable these people are.

[InternationPlayboy]

I've never met a gypsy in the US. At least not that I know of.

I think the kids main problem isn't he was illegally adopted, I think that it's he's growing up in a gypsy family.

[CaliforniaSupreme]

(11-17-2013 03:38 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

I've never met a gypsy in the US. At least not that I know of.

There's about a million here, estimated.


Also, My Big Fat American Gypsy wedding is the american version of the show, equally bad.

[Norset]

It's easy to preach understanding and focus on "their beautiful culture" until all your trash bins out on the street have been emptied on the street and rummaged through. Or until there is human feces (including used TP) all over bushes in parks, and the park itself being used as a camp site for a few weeks until its dirty and they move somewhere else. Then you start to hate.

There is very little outlet for this hate right now (i.e. nothing being done), and Schengen brings in these people by the thousands. These are the immigrants from hell. It will either blow up or Europe will slowly decay into the middle ages.

[quino_16]

(11-17-2013 02:56 PM)soup Wrote:  

The gypsies were poor people in India conscripted to fight the Persians in ancient times. Instead of going back to back to the shit life in India, they hit the road. A lot of them developed photographic memories- true Darwinian evolution taking place, so they could navigate. They are the greatest musicians on the planet and gave us the greatest guitar player who ever lived- django Reinhardt.

They have been around Europe for thousands of years, and are the bastard step children of the whites. Europe would definitely not have the culture and art it has today if the gypsies weren't around.

Their situation is problematic. In remany ways they are the original anarchists. you can't just pretend that these people don't exist.

There are many different tribes within their population. They are very redpill in the sense that they live old school with their women. The women cook and clean and take care of the kids.

What did they contribute to art and culture?

[Citlalli]

(11-17-2013 03:04 PM)Sawyer Wrote:  

Why should it take numerous sources to counter the simple idea that people have a right to their own place and to decorate it culturally, legally and otherwise as they see fit? What about the Roma's empathy for the English? Why would it be wrong for the traditional English people to swoop their country from the cultural Marxists? It wouldn't be wrong, in the scheme of things, would it?

They have already decorated it legally with EU policy which allows Romanian citizens to live in the UK. UK citizens are free to go and live in Romania as well if they want, shit this is a game forum after all so you guys should be happy about the trade off.

And... 'traditional English people' who are they? Just any law abiding, hard working citizen right? But that would include many second and third generations of immigrant families which have nothing to do with the English tradition.

@Roosh, what you described is a common phenomenon that occurs in poor countries all over the world; adults exploiting children to make them money is not exclusive to Romani people, nor is it their defining trait. If you recall Oliver Twist the same thing used to happen in Victorian England.

[CaliforniaSupreme]

(11-17-2013 03:56 PM)Citlalli Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 03:04 PM)Sawyer Wrote:  

Why should it take numerous sources to counter the simple idea that people have a right to their own place and to decorate it culturally, legally and otherwise as they see fit? What about the Roma's empathy for the English? Why would it be wrong for the traditional English people to swoop their country from the cultural Marxists? It wouldn't be wrong, in the scheme of things, would it?

They have already decorated it legally with EU policy which allows Romanian citizens to live in the UK. UK citizens are free to go and live in Romania as well if they want, shit this is a game forum after all so you guys should be happy about the trade off.

The majority of Europeans don't want to move to Romania. They wouldn't give a shit about the trade off, they don't want them in their countries.

[Teedub]

(11-17-2013 04:00 PM)CaliforniaSupreme Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 03:56 PM)Citlalli Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 03:04 PM)Sawyer Wrote:  

Why should it take numerous sources to counter the simple idea that people have a right to their own place and to decorate it culturally, legally and otherwise as they see fit? What about the Roma's empathy for the English? Why would it be wrong for the traditional English people to swoop their country from the cultural Marxists? It wouldn't be wrong, in the scheme of things, would it?

They have already decorated it legally with EU policy which allows Romanian citizens to live in the UK. UK citizens are free to go and live in Romania as well if they want, shit this is a game forum after all so you guys should be happy about the trade off.

The majority of Europeans don't want to move to Romania. They wouldn't give a shit about the trade off, they don't want them in their countries.

Actual Romanians are absolutely fine. My senior adviser for my dissertation at Uni was Romanian, awesome bloke. The Roma are not Romanians, simply due to the fact they actively segregate and STEAL from the Romanians and are utterly ungrateful for all the benefits they receive from that country, and now with this example, the UK.

Citali, yes I would include those second and third generations as 'English' in this sense. It's not anything to do with race, it's to do with culture.

[CaliforniaSupreme]

(11-17-2013 04:13 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 04:00 PM)CaliforniaSupreme Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 03:56 PM)Citlalli Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 03:04 PM)Sawyer Wrote:  

Why should it take numerous sources to counter the simple idea that people have a right to their own place and to decorate it culturally, legally and otherwise as they see fit? What about the Roma's empathy for the English? Why would it be wrong for the traditional English people to swoop their country from the cultural Marxists? It wouldn't be wrong, in the scheme of things, would it?

They have already decorated it legally with EU policy which allows Romanian citizens to live in the UK. UK citizens are free to go and live in Romania as well if they want, shit this is a game forum after all so you guys should be happy about the trade off.

The majority of Europeans don't want to move to Romania. They wouldn't give a shit about the trade off, they don't want them in their countries.

Actual Romanians are absolutely fine. My senior adviser for my dissertation at Uni was Romanian, awesome bloke. The Roma are not Romanians, simply due to the fact they actively segregate and STEAL from the Romanians and are utterly ungrateful for all the benefits they receive from that country, and now with this example, the UK.

Citali, yes I would include those second and third generations as 'English' in this sense. It's not anything to do with race, it's to do with culture.

I wasn't referring to Romanians in Romania, but Roma. Doesn't seem like an equal trade off.

[Teedub]

I know mate, I was just clarifying my position, as a British citizen, in regards to movement of peoples within Europe. I absolutely DO NOT want Roma gypsies coming over here, but Romanians who want to work and contribute, absolutely fine with that.

Only problem is that there is a housing and job shortage over here, so I don't know why anyone would come here anyway apart from to get benefits/welfare/social housing.

[CaliforniaSupreme]

(11-17-2013 04:27 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

I know mate, I was just clarifying my position, as a British citizen, in regards to movement of peoples within Europe. I absolutely DO NOT want Roma gypsies coming over here, but Romanians who want to work and contribute, absolutely fine with that.

Only problem is that there is a housing and job shortage over here, so I don't know why anyone would come here anyway apart from to get benefits/welfare/social housing.

Thanks for the clarification man

[Libertas]

(11-17-2013 03:56 PM)Citlalli Wrote:  

They have already decorated it legally with EU policy which allows Romanian citizens to live in the UK. UK citizens are free to go and live in Romania as well if they want, shit this is a game forum after all so you guys should be happy about the trade off.

You imply that the EU is something that the native Brits want. It isn't. Every single Brit I've spoken with absolutely detests it and wants out. No one asked for what's going on with the EU's policies. They rightly resent a bunch of bureaucrats telling them what to do and who to let in their own country, with them having no voice at all.

It's similar in a way to the colonists being pissed off by Parliament's policies that they had no say in in the 18th century.

[Sawyer]

"Actual Romanians are absolutely fine. My senior adviser for my dissertation at Uni was Romanian, awesome bloke. The Roma are not Romanians, simply due to the fact they actively segregate and STEAL from the Romanians and are utterly ungrateful for all the benefits they receive from that country, and now with this example, the UK."

But we know this isn't really about WHO is immigrating, because you know 100% that you will never be allowed to make distinctions like that again, period. That's the wall that you need to break through, and that's really the relevant wall at issue. Will you ever again be allowed to decide that there was something worth saving about the England of the past, the England your forbears for generations died for?

The only honest answer on the ground today is an emphatic no.

And this brings us back to the comment about incongruence. As alphas or future alphas, how does one sit poolside when questions of this magnitude are on the table? This is a serious question. I know the idea is not to think so much. But how? I get pissed off. It sickens me. It's a standing attack on my manhood. Hell the postmodern State is a standing attack on all men. Yeah, I can forget it. But it's a pretty fuckin' big thing to forget.

[Quintus Curtius]

(11-17-2013 03:28 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

If you don't hate gypsies, you simply haven't been exposed to them. I like to think of myself as open-minded, but their unwavering anti-work ethic is revolting. They have a culture of begging and stealing, and every time you see a "poor" gypsy kid, understand that his parents are forcing him to that because they see him as a means of income and nothing more. It's quite a jackpot for a gypsy father to have a beautiful daughter, because he can sell her to an older man for a nice price.

________________

Word. Those of us who had to deal with them, despise them.
Americans are naive about so many things, and have had no experience with Gypsies. They actually have a culture of thievery.
They actually want their young men to grow up to be "good thieves" and have official rankings and gradings of thievery. To be a "prince of thieves" is a mark of honor and something to be aspired to.
They are clannish, racist, and don't like outsiders. And their culture frowns on scholarship, learning, and books.
In short, a wretched, ignominious mob of paltroons and scammers.

[soup]

(11-17-2013 03:28 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

If you don't hate gypsies, you simply haven't been exposed to them. I like to think of myself as open-minded, but their unwavering anti-work ethic is revolting. They have a culture of begging and stealing, and every time you see a "poor" gypsy kid, understand that his parents are forcing him to that because they see him as a means of income and nothing more. It's quite a jackpot for a gypsy father to have a beautiful daughter, because he can sell her to an older man for a nice price.

There are different types of gypsies. There are a lot who aren't poor thieving etc.

And, like I said, they produce some of the finest musicians in the world.

Some of the more Northern Gypsy tribes don't want to be associated with the "Roma" Gypsies.

Here's a movie that shows the movement of gypsies throughout Europe:

[bojangles]

i love romanian women, i hate gypsies. Lots of gypsies have suddenly turned up in this area and unfortunately for romanians are being labelled as romanians.

their women are disgusting and none of them fucking work. Disgusting people.