[Sonsowey]

Hey,

So I just graduated college in May, and am now living in Bogotá, Colombia.

I recently got a CELTA certification, which allows you to teach English pretty much anywhere in the world.

I'm currently working at a random English school, but will be applying to the company which did the course, as they also teach classes.

Here's where it gets good: as an employee of this company, every year when your contract is up for renewal, you get the choice of staying where you are or putting down your top 3 choices for transferring to international locations. The list is here: http://www.ihworld.com/schooldirectory/index.asp

Pretty much everywhere in the world, usually only in the principal cities, but some variety for instance in Mexico, Ukraine. If you're European, even better, cause Americans can't find legal work too easily in the EU. But hell, plenty of great destinations outside the EU.

The mix of steady employment and a known income with the ability to change your country of residence every year is pretty much golden to me. I don't know how many people would be ready to 100% abandon their home country, but to me the experience of living in a place, as opposed to just visiting it, is a great one, and I can see myself doing this for many years.

Just an idea for those young guys looking for a way to make international travel a reality.

[mangadooza]

Great info. I'm curious about a few things, if you don't mind.

Can you comment on the difficulty of attaining the CELTA certificate?

Do you need a bachelor's degree in addition to CELTA in order to be competitive to employers?

How comfortable are you with the current salary you're receiving from teaching English?

Thanks

[tomtud]

(11-16-2010 09:53 PM)mangadooza Wrote:  

Great info. I'm curious about a few things, if you don't mind.

Can you comment on the difficulty of attaining the CELTA certificate?

Do you need a bachelor's degree in addition to CELTA in order to be competitive to employers?

How comfortable are you with the current salary you're receiving from teaching English?

Thanks

To teach ESL does not require a bachelors degree. Yes, certain countries this is a minimum requirement such as Japan and South Korea. Check out http://www.daveseslcafe.com for jobs in ESL and you can read the job ads and requirments. For the most part, Asia pays the best, but if you are going for much more of an experience the world is your oyster.

[rudebwoy]

Still my dream and I am older dude.

[oldnemesis]

(11-16-2010 09:04 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

I recently got a CELTA certification, which allows you to teach English pretty much anywhere in the world.

How's the pay? I've met some people in Thailand who live there working as English teacher. They make more than locals, but definitely not something which would be considered decent money. They basically live paycheck to paycheck, and those little savings they have they spend on emergencies. Only those who have savings from US/UK/AU live a decent life.

This may be a good option for a 50+ man who has built some retirement savings, as this option allows him to live a good life while spending very little of his retirement egg nest. But doing so when you're 20? I don't get it.

[Dash Global]

Im really glad to see someone doing the exact thing im leaving to do in May.

I sent you a PM with some questions!

[Bad Hussar]

The money is not the greatest, but teaching English is a great way to travel without it actually costing you money! When you're young is the time to do it, since it's easy to pick up a more conventional life later on if that's what you want or need to do.

Save the money you'd spend on an iffy post-grad degree that won't help you much and create your own post-grad "degree" in international relations by visiting loads of places around the world, really getting into the culture in each place, and get paid in the process. If you really need the MBA or whatever for some reason you can always go back to school later.

[hydrogonian]

Subsistence living. Fine for when your younger.

You may get lucky and wander into an okay business to start or join while abroad.

If not, ESL paints you into a corner when your older. No ability to get real work at home. Decreasing opportunities for ESL work abroad, due to your age.

When your younger, living on the edge is ok. Its not when your older.

Make sure to upgrade to a real teacher certification if you want to make a career out of it. You still won't have a pension though, as you would when working for a government body at home or abroad.

[subutai]

I agree. There are lots of English teachers living in Asia for example and I certainly would not want to be in their shoes at all.

In fact, if I were a young guy in my early 20s, I'd rather spend that time in the US living with the mom & dad, saving up my money, and work on a start-up that would allow me to live anywhere in the world in the future.

But that's just me.

[OSL]

http://www.wwoof.org/

[oldnemesis]

(11-17-2010 01:36 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

The money is not the greatest, but teaching English is a great way to travel without it actually costing you money! When you're young is the time to do it, since it's easy to pick up a more conventional life later on if that's what you want or need to do.

I wonder how it supposed to work? Let's say one is coming back to US/UK/AU. He is 45, and all he did last 20 years was teaching English to middle-class Asian adults. This wasn't a well-paying job by local standards, so he has little to no savings, and studying for a year or so is not an option. What kind of conventional life he is going to pick up when he's back? McDonald’s cashier?

[subutai]

(11-17-2010 08:01 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(11-17-2010 01:36 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

The money is not the greatest, but teaching English is a great way to travel without it actually costing you money! When you're young is the time to do it, since it's easy to pick up a more conventional life later on if that's what you want or need to do.

I wonder how it supposed to work? Let's say one is coming back to US/UK/AU. He is 45, and all he did last 20 years was teaching English to middle-class Asian adults. This wasn't a well-paying job by local standards, so he has little to no savings, and studying for a year or so is not an option. What kind of conventional life he is going to pick up when he's back? McDonald’s cashier?

To play devil's advocate, I know a guy who taught English for many years abroad.

He just got an offer to teach English to Iraqi government employees/officials as part of the US "nation-building" effort.

Salary?

$149,000 USD per year.

[Celtic]

ESL teaching is a great experience, but it's not that much of a career. The only country where you can really make decent money without an education degree is Korea. You can do alright there, but a lot of people don't like living there long term. You should check the forums eslcafe.com for info on this. That said, as something to do after college for a while, it is a great way to travel and not end up paying a lot of money to do it. I did it and I had a blast.

[Bad Hussar]

(11-17-2010 08:01 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(11-17-2010 01:36 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

The money is not the greatest, but teaching English is a great way to travel without it actually costing you money! When you're young is the time to do it, since it's easy to pick up a more conventional life later on if that's what you want or need to do.

I wonder how it supposed to work? Let's say one is coming back to US/UK/AU. He is 45, and all he did last 20 years was teaching English to middle-class Asian adults. This wasn't a well-paying job by local standards, so he has little to no savings, and studying for a year or so is not an option. What kind of conventional life he is going to pick up when he's back? McDonald’s cashier?

Well, I wasn't thinking about somone spending 20 years just teaching English. Spending 20 years in any career at the same level is crazy. Maybe 3-4 years tops for a young guy if it's not his main career, and he is not eally progressing. He might not have much money after teaching English for a few years, but he wouldn't have any less money than if he was just out of university either. His position would be similar, only now he's travelled a bit and seen some of the world. It may seem that he has wasted 3-4 years, but travelling is a big deal to many people. Someone working at a regular job could also look back after 3-4 years and think he should have spent them seeing the world. Grass is greener....

[Bad Hussar]

(11-17-2010 04:54 PM)subutai Wrote:  

I agree. There are lots of English teachers living in Asia for example and I certainly would not want to be in their shoes at all.

In fact, if I were a young guy in my early 20s, I'd rather spend that time in the US living with the mom & dad, saving up my money, and work on a start-up that would allow me to live anywhere in the world in the future.

But that's just me.

Yes, the location independent business is definitely the best option. No effort in trying to get that off the ground should be spared. Working at a high paying job you can do part time (e.g. consultant) for 6 months each year, living more modestly than you would normally, and spending the remainder of the year travelling is also an option.

[hydrogonian]

(11-17-2010 08:01 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(11-17-2010 01:36 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

The money is not the greatest, but teaching English is a great way to travel without it actually costing you money! When you're young is the time to do it, since it's easy to pick up a more conventional life later on if that's what you want or need to do.

I wonder how it supposed to work? Let's say one is coming back to US/UK/AU. He is 45, and all he did last 20 years was teaching English to middle-class Asian adults. This wasn't a well-paying job by local standards, so he has little to no savings, and studying for a year or so is not an option. What kind of conventional life he is going to pick up when he's back? McDonald’s cashier?

That's a reality for a LOT of ESL teachers.

Instead of going home at 40-45 years old, I would just go Colonel Kurtz at that point. There's no tang like Mekong tang

[oldnemesis]

(11-18-2010 12:32 AM)subutai Wrote:  

To play devil's advocate, I know a guy who taught English for many years abroad.
He just got an offer to teach English to Iraqi government employees/officials as part of the US "nation-building" effort.
Salary?
$149,000 USD per year.

But living in Iraq???
I'd rather live for $2K/mo in Thailand.

[rudebwoy]

Who says you have to go home at age 40, why put conventional rules in your life. Things happen, life is not always about going to univ/finding a wife/white picket fence/2.2kids/work until your 65 and get the gold watch.
Starting out as a ESL teacher can lead to you becoming a proper teacher. In the UK they are dying for teachers, so it ain't exactly that hard to get into. I have researched it and considered it, I have seen a job advertised working as a Geography teacher 3 days/week earning decent money.
My buddy teaches some trade at a community college earning 34k GBP working 20 hours a week, so nice gig if you can get it.

[subutai]

(11-18-2010 09:49 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(11-18-2010 12:32 AM)subutai Wrote:  

To play devil's advocate, I know a guy who taught English for many years abroad.
He just got an offer to teach English to Iraqi government employees/officials as part of the US "nation-building" effort.
Salary?
$149,000 USD per year.

But living in Iraq???
I'd rather live for $2K/mo in Thailand.

But he'll have over $200,000 saved up in 2 years if he plays his cards right. That's a nice little slush fund to use to launch your own business after 2 years of hardship.

[hydrogonian]

(11-18-2010 10:11 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Who says you have to go home at age 40, why put conventional rules in your life. Things happen, life is not always about going to univ/finding a wife/white picket fence/2.2kids/work until your 65 and get the gold watch.
Starting out as a ESL teacher can lead to you becoming a proper teacher. In the UK they are dying for teachers, so it ain't exactly that hard to get into. I have researched it and considered it, I have seen a job advertised working as a Geography teacher 3 days/week earning decent money.
My buddy teaches some trade at a community college earning 34k GBP working 20 hours a week, so nice gig if you can get it.

This all assumes a teaching certification. The vast majority of ESL teachers don't have it and will never get it. That's why I recommended it in my previous post. A teaching certification takes a considerable amount of time and money to get, relative to what most 30+ year old ESL teachers are ready or willing to give. At LEAST two years, plus tuition and living expenses. Better certifications (the sciences) will take longer, if you don't have the coursework already. As a reasonably intelligent male, I, for one, would be miserable being an elementary homeroom teacher. In addition, those are the toughest jobs to get, because they are the easiest to qualify for.

BTW, that ESL leads to a certification is a little misleading. You have to take a definite break from ESL teaching to get your cert, and your ESL experience will mean almost nothing in terms of your resume. In some instances, you can find an legit but very expensive online cert, but then you have to coordinate a suitable testing proctor from abroad. That's harder than you think, when the proctor has to be approved by your university. Second, you need observation and student teaching time. This requires a break.

If anyone were thinking of teaching abroad as a career, I highly recommend that you not waste time and you go and get your teaching cert first. Then go teach in international schools. Even better, international government schools. If you do this, you will thank me later.

Reasons to go home. They vary by the individual:
1. Your aging parents
2. Raising your kids somewhere besides the third world
3. To watch your nieces, nephews, and friends kids grow up.
3. Saving for retirement, so that your not living in a flophouse in Thailand, wondering where your next meal is coming from, when your a 78 year old man. Remember, you won't have social security at home (for the USA guys) because you never paid into it. Also, good luck getting an ESL job when your that old. And would you want to?
4. Going back to a culture where you are actually accepted, and not just seen as a walking atm or an deviant outsider that couldn't make it in his own country (you will never, ever be accepted in most of asia. Trust me. A couple of exceptions are possible, but there is no ESL work in these locations)
5. You want to make more than subsistence level in a place that is also tolerable (those two things tend to be mutually exclusive in the ESL world)

I could go on...

[subutai]

(11-19-2010 12:12 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

Reasons to go home. They vary by the individual:
1. Your aging parents
2. Raising your kids somewhere besides the third world
3. To watch your nieces, nephews, and friends kids grow up.
3. Saving for retirement, so that your not living in a flophouse in Thailand, wondering where your next meal is coming from, when your a 78 year old man.
4. Going back to a culture where you are actually accepted, and not just seen as a walking atm or an deviant outsider that couldn't make it in his own country (you will never, ever be accepted in asia. Trust me)
5. You want to make more than subsistence level in a place that is also tolerable (those two things tend to be mutually exclusive in the ESL world)

I could go on...

It's funny. The older I get, the more I realize that money really takes care of most of these barriers and problematic issues in life.

[Vacancier Permanent]

For everyone out there contemplating living abroad or at leat travelling for long term, forget getting a job as an english teacher. Instead the best thing to do is try to build your own little online biz that you can take with you anywhere and that takes about 2-4 hours a day to run. Then you can pretty much write your own ticket as to where to go, when and how often. It may not be the easiest nor the fastest solution but it sure is by far the best option IMO. It took me 2 years to get to where I am now and I sure am glad I spent that time building that little biz that is now providing me with all my freedom to live this jet set lifestyle.

[zoom]

(11-19-2010 01:30 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

For everyone out there contemplating living abroad or at leat travelling for long term, forget getting a job as an english teacher. Instead the best thing to do is try to build your own little online biz that you can take with you anywhere and that takes about 2-4 hours a day to run. Then you can pretty much write your own ticket as to where to go, when and how often. It may not be the easiest nor the fastest solution but it sure is by far the best option IMO. It took me 2 years to get to where I am now and I sure am glad I spent that time building that little biz that is now providing me with all my freedom to live this jet set lifestyle.

much easier said than done. most people have trouble making any money online let alone enough money to live off of.

[subutai]

(11-19-2010 01:51 PM)zoom Wrote:  

(11-19-2010 01:30 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

For everyone out there contemplating living abroad or at leat travelling for long term, forget getting a job as an english teacher. Instead the best thing to do is try to build your own little online biz that you can take with you anywhere and that takes about 2-4 hours a day to run. Then you can pretty much write your own ticket as to where to go, when and how often. It may not be the easiest nor the fastest solution but it sure is by far the best option IMO. It took me 2 years to get to where I am now and I sure am glad I spent that time building that little biz that is now providing me with all my freedom to live this jet set lifestyle.

much easier said than done. most people have trouble making any money online let alone enough money to live off of.

VP's advice is definitely not geared towards the majority. In other words, most guys will never have the luck, skills, or perseverance to make it happen and will end up working for the man doing the 9 to 5 grind until their prime years are long gone.

But this is just the way the world works.

It's survival of the fittest, in both mating and business.

[Vacancier Permanent]

(11-19-2010 01:51 PM)zoom Wrote:  

(11-19-2010 01:30 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

For everyone out there contemplating living abroad or at leat travelling for long term, forget getting a job as an english teacher. Instead the best thing to do is try to build your own little online biz that you can take with you anywhere and that takes about 2-4 hours a day to run. Then you can pretty much write your own ticket as to where to go, when and how often. It may not be the easiest nor the fastest solution but it sure is by far the best option IMO. It took me 2 years to get to where I am now and I sure am glad I spent that time building that little biz that is now providing me with all my freedom to live this jet set lifestyle.

much easier said than done. most people have trouble making any money online let alone enough money to live off of.

Agreed and it's mainly due to 2 things among many other factors but above all:
a) limiting mind set
b) chosing the wrong biz or a biz that makes too little money for too much effort. Much easier and faster to focus on high end/high ticket items where you only need a few sales a month to live very well as opposed to selling a shitload of low cost items that won't generate much. In summary the choice of the vehicule (aka the biz) is vital in achieving that freedom.