[hydrogonian]

I think that alcohol is much more of a gateway drug than weed is. At least in my experience. Alcohol to yayo is a very common progression for many people. I can't think of a "very common" progression with weed. Although, it depends on the person and his social group. But, in general, I know a lot of smokers that stick to that only. Some don't even drink.

The biggest downside to herb, in my experience, is lung damage. I won't put anything in my lungs now. Pretty much because I can't without feeling it for days. Also, I just read an article that said that they found that MJ causes emphysema 5 times faster than tobacco. As a matter of fact, that article might have been linked to in another thread. if I can find it I'll post the link.

On the subject of alcohol and a beer gut: carbs, but alcohol in particular, will lower your testosterone and raise your estrogen over time. As you get older, your more susceptible to this effect as your testosterone isn't as naturally high any more to begin with. If your hormones get too out of whack, you get fat and get bitch tits. A lot of fat guys get breast cancer. That's from too much estrogen (as is a lot of cancer, they are finding).

The secret to reversing this is to make sure that you have some extremely low carb days. And go to bed as early as possible. The time that you go to bed affects your testosterone levels greatly. The earlier, the better. Read the book Lights Out: Sleep Sugar and Survival for more info. Its one of the best health books ever written, and its little known. Also, eat your last meal as early as possible. And then be strict about not eating or drinking anything after.

[flashbang]

For some reason I've never developed a liking to the taste of alcohol. I prefer not drinking at all to drinking even a little. I prefer the taste of juice than juice mixed with alcohol. I'm able to switch on my social mode without acohol in my blood system. I am able to talk to any girl and any group of girls, at any time without approach anxiety problems due to hundreds of approached over the years.

Not drinking is also great for my health and I've never had a problem as far as health is concerned and physical condition is excellent year-round. I also saved a shitload of cash that I can instead use for travelling, and when returing home after a party, I have no fear of driving back home, or failing a police test. Drinks in clubs also cost a good fortune so if you've been drinking prolifically over the year, you're gonna have spent a small fortune. I'm also not a fan of hangovers.

There are however costs that I pay for this. Alcohol puts you in a certain vibe that is hard to replicate without it. Even if you're able to talk to girls without it, if they've had more drinks than you, it's hard to communicate on an effective level. When you're not drinking, you also don't tend to raise your voice high enough unless you're aware of it and adjust accordingly. I also notice I pursue more aggressively with a drink or 2 in, which can be good(persistance) or bad(looking needy)

If you're hell bent on getting tail, being sober can really lead to a shit night unless you're able to relax and be in a chilled mood. Also, telling girls you don't drink is a bad idea because it makes you look bad/cheap. They may be less likely to drink, which makes them less likely to loosen up sexually.

What I've started doing when I'm out with at a bar or club, is order something like a pineapple juice. It saves me from drinking something whose taste I dislike, and for all they know, it may be some pineapple with vodka or something. If she calls you out on it you can just tease her about it.

Bottom line is, alcohol loosens you up and loosens her up as well but having her loosen up is more important for the goal of having sex. We all know that alcohol can bring out the inner slut in girls, so as long as you can keep them drinking, while drinking as little (or nothing) as possible, you're moving in the right direction. If you like the taste of alcohol you can have a drink or 2 and it should be beneficial.

These are my views. Disliking the taste of alcohol is a double-edged sword I guess. Like some people said here, alcohol is a poison but Roosh also has a classic post called "reasons why you're not getting laid" in which he correctly mentions alcohol as an important factor but I think it's much more important the she drinks. You can just appear to drink.

[gringoed]

(05-01-2011 07:20 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(04-30-2011 05:46 PM)gringoed Wrote:  

If you're drinking to feel good, happy, and relaxed, try weed. Zero calories. Zero fucking with your hormones. No stupid decisions such as beer goggles. Sleep like a baby, refreshed in the morning with no hangover!

But you also need to keep in mind:

- There is a chance to develop an addiction. And while it is purely mental, it is still an addiction.
- It is illegal in most countries, which makes it more difficult to obtain, store or transport it.
- It may preclude you from qualifying for employment in some companies which run drug tests; I heard it is detectable in hair two months after the last usage.
- Increased risk of lung cancer. Yes, it is not just tobacco.
- Weed is a typical gateway into other drugs. While the progression is not mandatory, I do not know a single drug user who'd start using heroin out of the blue sky, everyone I know started with smoking weed. This is a major problem for those who fall on peer pressure.

As we say in Russia, everything in this world which makes you feel good is either illegal, immoral or it makes you fat.

Good points.

"As we say in Russia, everything in this world which makes you feel good is either illegal, immoral or it makes you fat."
This is definitely true!!

About your points:
1. Saying something is "psychologically" addictive is dumb to me because anything can be. One thing is for sure, it's less addictive than sugar or caffeine which are very mainstream and consumed by most of us every day.
2. If lung cancer or emphysema is a concern, simply buy a vaporizer or bake it into food.
3. Weed is a gateway drug because society says it's so bad (the govt classifies it as a schedule 1 drug) that when they realize it's not harmful at all, people who aren't diligent about their decision-making will wonder what else isn't harmful. Plus, in order to get weed you have to seek underground drug dealers which have an incentive to push higher-profit drugs on you. If weed was legalized and you could get it at a 7-11, this wouldn't be an issue.

[Chad Daring]

Dont call pot a gateway drug. People who do heroin were most likely going to do heroin no matter how they got there. If weed is a gateway drug so is water, because 100% of all heroin users drank water at some point in their life before they did heroin.

[hydrogonian]

Oh, and don't forget that MJ is a mild psychoactive, very similar to very low dose acid (to prove it, eat an overdose of potent brownie and see if it doesn't feel like a somewhat intense trip). That's where a lot of its recreational benefit comes from. While not harmful in the short term, that shit does change your brain long term if used in excess. Some people say for the better, and do great, and some obviously can't handle long term use. I know both. Although, many hard core long termers don't just stick with MJ. The people who keep it light and casual generally do fine. It also has to do with how much you smoked and at what time in your life (whether or not your brain was still developing at a fast clip).

[Screwston]

Bunch of misinformation about bud out there. Some people won't ever see any good out of it because it's illegal. Its like anything else in life, smoke in moderation and you'll be fine. Has anyone ever died from smoking weed? Gotten cancer or anything like that? I've never heard of it.

I got wasted last night and don't ever plan on drinking like that again unless its a special occasion. Its hard for me to just have a cup or 2 so I'm going to have to really work on controlling myself.

[hydrogonian]

How old are you and how long have you been smoking?

If your relatively young and you smoke a lot, your perspective may eventually change a bit.

I agree that its a lot more benign than most other things out there, but its not as harmless as most aficionados like to believe. That's just one mans experience.

In my experience, it has the unique ability to make you a little less effective in most aspects of your life, but in a way that causes its users to either not see how it does so or to only realize this very, very slowly, if ever. And it does have hormonal effects and effects on the lungs. I know this for sure.

But your right: all things in moderation. If its somewhat occasional, then no worries. Its generally the two bowl per day ++ smokers that are more effected in the long term.

[Screwston]

I'm 23 and have been smoking since I was 15.

[flashbang]

I think weed's ill effects are grossly over-rated. It does kill motivation to do anything except devour the whole fridge. In moderation it should be fine.

[hydrogonian]

(05-01-2011 11:36 PM)houston Wrote:  

I'm 23 and have been smoking since I was 15.

Right. Depending on how much you smoke, you'll likely start to notice some things in a few years.

(05-02-2011 09:47 AM)flashbang Wrote:  

I think weed's ill effects are grossly over-rated. It does kill motivation to do anything except devour the whole fridge. In moderation it should be fine.

They are only 'overrated' because they are under your level of awareness or you don't smoke a lot. Why do you think that you feel the need to devour the fridge? Those munchies are a neuro-hormonal response to the drug. Trigger that unnatural hormonal response enough, as with any drug, and there are detrimental effects. A lot of the long term effects of weed, as with any hallucinogen, are emotional as well hormonal. 'Devouring the fridge' is a perfect example of what I'm talking about in terms of ill effects being under the awareness of the user or dismissed as being inconsequential.

Again, I think that its more benign than alcohol, in general, but people get out of control with it and then tend to not to see the connect between it and the way that their life is going.

[Giovonny]

The first few years of smoking weed are great. The problems only come after many years of heavy use. Some people can handle it and some people can't. If you use it in moderation, you should be fine. But, if you smoke everyday for years, little problems can start to creep up on you. It can become a "crutch". You can become dependent on it to feel good. It can become a part of your routine. It becomes too important.

A couple guys of this Forum have complained that weed has made them depressed. If you just stay indoors and get high all the time, it can really effect your social vibe.

Most people don't have these extreme problems but it can happen if your not careful.

Again, if you are just a casual, once in a while smoker, you have nothing to worry about. BUT, IF YOU SMOKE EVERYDAY FOR YEARS, BE CAREFUL, IT CAN START TO EFFECT YOUR VIBE.

I guess moderation is the key, like everything.

If you are an over 30 smoker, I really recommend a good vaporizer.

[flashbang]

(05-02-2011 09:47 AM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(05-01-2011 11:36 PM)houston Wrote:  

I'm 23 and have been smoking since I was 15.

Right. Depending on how much you smoke, you'll likely start to notice some things in a few years.

(05-02-2011 09:47 AM)flashbang Wrote:  

I think weed's ill effects are grossly over-rated. It does kill motivation to do anything except devour the whole fridge. In moderation it should be fine.

They are only 'overrated' because they are under your level of awareness or you don't smoke a lot. Why do you think that you feel the need to devour the fridge? Those munchies are a neuro-hormonal response to the drug. Trigger that unnatural hormonal response enough, as with any drug, and there are detrimental effects. A lot of the long term effects of weed, as with any hallucinogen, are emotional as well hormonal. 'Devouring the fridge' is a perfect example of what I'm talking about in terms of ill effects being under the awareness of the user or dismissed as being inconsequential.

Again, I think that its more benign than alcohol, in general, but people get out of control with it and then tend to not to see the connect between it and the way that their life is going.

I agree with you 100% which is why I very rarely smoke. I'm sure a lifetime of pot can have negative effects on the mind and body and yet I know people who's smoked enough for 3 lifetimes and yet show no visible outward negative signs. On the whole however I believe that alcohol is more harmful than weed, and speaking of hormonal imbalances, beer is loaded with oestrogens which can't be good for a man.

[oldnemesis]

(05-01-2011 07:46 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

I think that alcohol is much more of a gateway drug than weed is. At least in my experience. Alcohol to yayo is a very common progression for many people.

This may be the case for countries where drinking is a prohibited or low class activity, but not for Europe or Russia. Pretty much everyone drinks alcohol in Russia, and only few people do drugs - and everyone I knew started with weed. The logic behind it is that unlike alcohol the drugs aren't easily available - you've got to know people who can get them, and generally the more potent the drug, the harder it is to acquire for an average Joe who doesn't have connections. Weed is considerably easy to get your hands on - here it is almost being sold openly in SF/Berkeley, and now for $150 or so you can get medical marijuana license which allows you to carry some amounts semi-legally. But it is still a step up from alcohol which you can buy in your grocery store. Now if we talk about meth or coke/heroin, I don't even have an idea where people get it, and the chances for average Joe to get one, unless he knows the people, are slim.

[oldnemesis]

(05-01-2011 09:59 PM)gringoed Wrote:  

About your points:
1. Saying something is "psychologically" addictive is dumb to me because anything can be. One thing is for sure, it's less addictive than sugar or caffeine which are very mainstream and consumed by most of us every day.
2. If lung cancer or emphysema is a concern, simply buy a vaporizer or bake it into food.
3. Weed is a gateway drug because society says it's so bad (the govt classifies it as a schedule 1 drug) that when they realize it's not harmful at all, people who aren't diligent about their decision-making will wonder what else isn't harmful. Plus, in order to get weed you have to seek underground drug dealers which have an incentive to push higher-profit drugs on you. If weed was legalized and you could get it at a 7-11, this wouldn't be an issue.

1. This is just downplaying. Addiction to opiates is clearly not the same danger level as addiction to sugars, although technically both are addictions. And carbs are necessary for your survival - while weed is not - so calling it addiction is an overestimation.

2. Long-term effects of eating baked weed are not studied, and may be actually worse than smoking, so I definitely would not call it a safer alternative.

3. Well, all drugs are "bad" because the society said so. Even heroin was available without prescription in 1920s. But the society usually has the reason for making it illegal (typically because they have potential for abuse and no recognized medical needs). Now I haven't seen a single study saying smoking weed isn't harmful which was not rigged in some way, and most arguments are similar to worthless testimonies like "my uncle smoked weed and died at 110", i.e. completely useless. So unless you believe in conspiracy, there are valid reasons to make it illegal. And even if you do, weed is classified as drug in vast majority of countries around the world, meaning it is not the conspiracy of a single government. You know, the governments can hardly agree on any single thing from wars to global warning. So if they agreed on the drug list, there is some good reason for that.

One of the reasons I can think about is that some people just need to do something illegal - for kicks of trying the "forbidden apple", for peer pressure, to feel a small-scale-criminal or whatever. Keeping a (relatively safe) weed illegal makes it possible for those people to satisfy their urges without doing significant damage for themselves or society. If weed was readily available, it would lose its appeal as "forbidden apple" and those people would have to switch to something else, much more damaging like meth or coke. This may actually be the real reason behind this prohibition.

[Chad Daring]

I gonna attempt to re-rail this thread.


In regards to booze, has anyone found any of the claims of "hangover proof" liquor to be true? Sake and high quality vodka are the two I constantly hear when this comes up.

The idea seems to be the more impurities in the alcohol the worse or more likely a hangover is. For me this seems to hold true because beer (which is mostly "impurities") will hurt me the next day, but slamming bacardi silver all night long leaves me fine the next day.

Oh and to go back to Kerouac's original question about how much do you drink and how does it affect you...

Starting this week I'm giong to cut down to almost zero booze when going out. I'm noticing that drinking when rolling dolo does two things. Drains my bank account, and fucks up my game. It makes me sleepy and depressed, which do not make for a confident man. My plan is to pre-game one or two shots and then nurse one drink for as long as possible then jump to something soft like soda or juice.

[Gmac]

(05-02-2011 07:29 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

I gonna attempt to re-rail this thread.


In regards to booze, has anyone found any of the claims of "hangover proof" liquor to be true? Sake and high quality vodka are the two I constantly hear when this comes up.

The idea seems to be the more impurities in the alcohol the worse or more likely a hangover is. For me this seems to hold true because beer (which is mostly "impurities") will hurt me the next day, but slamming bacardi silver all night long leaves me fine the next day.

Oh and to go back to Kerouac's original question about how much do you drink and how does it affect you...

Starting this week I'm giong to cut down to almost zero booze when going out. I'm noticing that drinking when rolling dolo does two things. Drains my bank account, and fucks up my game. It makes me sleepy and depressed, which do not make for a confident man. My plan is to pre-game one or two shots and then nurse one drink for as long as possible then jump to something soft like soda or juice.

Really? I usually do 2 shots before I head out and I've got a good buzz by the time I start sipping my first drink. Smooth sailing from there. You sounds like you just need some caffeine.

Edit: That's exactly what I do. Funny I started writing this before reading the last two sentences.

[Chad Daring]

(05-02-2011 07:44 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

(05-02-2011 07:29 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

I gonna attempt to re-rail this thread.


In regards to booze, has anyone found any of the claims of "hangover proof" liquor to be true? Sake and high quality vodka are the two I constantly hear when this comes up.

The idea seems to be the more impurities in the alcohol the worse or more likely a hangover is. For me this seems to hold true because beer (which is mostly "impurities") will hurt me the next day, but slamming bacardi silver all night long leaves me fine the next day.

Oh and to go back to Kerouac's original question about how much do you drink and how does it affect you...

Starting this week I'm giong to cut down to almost zero booze when going out. I'm noticing that drinking when rolling dolo does two things. Drains my bank account, and fucks up my game. It makes me sleepy and depressed, which do not make for a confident man. My plan is to pre-game one or two shots and then nurse one drink for as long as possible then jump to something soft like soda or juice.

Really? I usually do 2 shots before I head out and I've got a good buzz by the time I start sipping my first drink. Smooth sailing from there. You sounds like you just need some caffeine.

Edit: That's exactly what I do. Funny I started writing this before reading the last two sentences.

See my problem is (and I'm not trying to wave my dick around) it takes about 5 shots in an hour to get me to the beginning of buzzed. After that much the depressant quality comes out BEFORE the fun loosened up quality does. This is strictly a dolo issue, having a buddy to chat with is the complete opposite, but I end up rolling dolo 100% of the time right now

[Caligula]

(05-02-2011 07:29 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

I gonna attempt to re-rail this thread.

In regards to booze, has anyone found any of the claims of "hangover proof" liquor to be true? Sake and high quality vodka are the two I constantly hear when this comes up.

My favourite for minimising hangovers is vodka + soda water. Keeps you hydrated while you drink. I'll switch between this and straight up water to avoid getting hammered.

Then have some red bull later in the night for energy.

Lately, though, I've been cutting out the alcohol completely and my game has improved. Makes me more focused and less tolerating of bullshit.

Check out this thread too: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-4250-p...l#pid51829

[Kickb]

i just drink a ton of water before i go to sleep. It has proven to be quite an effective method for avoiding hangovers

[Fuckeroo_Banzai]

Why deny yourself something that gives you pleasure? Beer tastes good so I drink it. If you're comfortable with yourself then women will still dig you, regardless of whether you look like Cee Lo Green or the Old Spice guy. Hey, I'll bed the chunky Kardashian while the rest of the pack is chasing her skinny siblings and going home alone... yet again.

A lay is a lay is a lay.

[hydrogonian]

(05-02-2011 04:59 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

Now if we talk about meth or coke/heroin, I don't even have an idea where people get it, and the chances for average Joe to get one, unless he knows the people, are slim.

I see your point, although my experience is still as I said. However, also in my experience it is easy for the average joe to get blow. Just make yourself a regular at any given bar with people in their early to late twenties. You'll meet people in very little time that will have access. Its huge in the drinking culture in this age group. The trick is to get them to admit it to you (if you were interested in such a thing), because although it is very common for people to have it and do it, it also tends to be a well kept secret until you can somehow prove to them that you are both a part of that culture and trustworthy. Once that occurs, you are part of the club and would make 'friends' quick. After that, you would meet people that would have access to other things. This isn't the only way to get access to that culture, but its a common way. Also, most categories of partying oriented social groups have sub-groups of people that do that type of thing. Its just about you finding them and them you. People who do those type of things tend to have a way to sniff each other out, generally through socializing, word of mouth, introductions, or drug related behavior that they learn to spot in one another.

[Moma]

(05-01-2011 06:39 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

Beer doesn't give you a beer gut. A lot of beer doesn't give you a beer gut. A lot of calories, carbs, and general over eating will give you a beer gut. I normally stick to diet soda and rum when I'm drinking, but there's a bar near me that does weekly beer specials on their homebrews, so if I'm going out I'm going there and if I'm going there I'm drinking beer. If I know this then I just cut back earlier in the day. Have a salad instead of a sandwich at lunch or dinner.

B.S. I lost my first ab when I had my first drink of beer.

[Moma]

(05-01-2011 07:20 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

As we say in Russia, everything in this world which makes you feel good is either illegal, immoral or it makes you fat.

So, sex is not good in Russia?

[oldnemesis]

(05-04-2011 03:29 PM)Moma Wrote:  

So, sex is not good in Russia?

Outside marriage? It is good but immoral.
In marriage? I guess in most cases it is not that good

[raliv]

Quote:

Just make yourself a regular at any given bar with people in their early to late twenties. You'll meet people in very little time that will have access.

At a college bar I once bought a gram of baking soda for 60 bucks.

If I ever see that mofo again...