[JimNortonFan]

http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~caforum/vo...driks.html


Author says that guys like us are ascetic because we work to change ourselves.

It's worth a read.

The part that interests me is on the Mystery Method. The author says that the memorized routines make the Gamer lonelier because it makes it harder to relate to people naturally.

Do any of you think you're more isolated because you work on self improvement?

I could honestly care less about being isolated from the culture at large.

[Emancipator]

I have noticed myself way more lone wolf since working on self improvement. My social interactions is limited to a close circle of bros or females I'm gaming. I rely on myself to get/achieve what I want.

"There is no feeling in this world to be compared with self-reliance--do not sacrifice that to anything else. " ~ John D. Rockefeller

[Magyarphile]

I think the danger behind mystery method is the attempt to break down social interaction into a series of steps. This should not be done imo. Talking/gaming is an organic spontaneous event. If you try to study it, you will find yourself on the outside looking in.

[MrXY]

Of course you're going to feel alienated from the generally dumb public if you try to become better

Most people's concerns are getting their next paycheck, TV, their next meal, getting drunk or high, their spouse and kids, sports, fantasies, silly hobbies, and other daily trivial shit.

Most people read little of consequence, are out of shape, and have only a minimal plan for improving themselves financially and no ambition to improve themselves mentally or culturally

I have learned to keep my activities to myself for the most part because a lot of people will try to tear you down in some way in you're doing things that they don't have the energy, talent or ambition to do.

[WestIndianArchie]

If you want to start a conversation with a 6 year old you can say

"knock, knock"

In America, that will open any group of school age kids you might run into.
Often times after you finish your knock knock joke, they'll have one of their own to tell you.

There's nothing inherently isolating about canned material.

WIA

[j r]

I agree with WIA.

I'll add that the fundamental character of the sexual marketplace in the Western world is that men compete and women choose. Any attempt to upset that apple cart will be met with resistance and be treated as a sort of pathology.

That being said, the paper is interesting. And if you think specifically about PUAs, he makes some valid points. Here is the thing to remember though: PUA started as a sort of revenge of the nerds kind of thing. It was a way for guys who had never been good with women and who really didn't understand women to go from zero to getting laid in a relatively short amount of time. Of course, that is going to involve some element of removing yourself from normal society and cultivating some form of asceticism.

Game has gone from a bunch of PUAs hanging out in lairs, going on group sarges, and writing lay reports on the mASF forum to a much more mainstream cultivation of overall masculinity. What does it say about society when a tool that used to be used by social misfits and near-virgins becomes something that the average man feels that he needs?

[WestIndianArchie]

(10-27-2013 07:56 PM)j r Wrote:  

Game has gone from a bunch of PUAs hanging out in lairs, going on group sarges, and writing lay reports on the mASF forum to a much more mainstream cultivation of overall masculinity.

To its degradation I feel. In an effort to go holistic about being men, a lot of the technology about bagging women gets tossed.

(10-27-2013 07:56 PM)j r Wrote:  

What does it say about society when a tool that used to be used by social misfits and near-virgins becomes something that the average man feels that he needs?

I still don't think average guys think they need "strategic dating advice".

Every dude out there thinks he knows, regardless of his actual success.

WIA

[j r]

I should have written "an average man" instead of "the average man."

[Kimber]

I agree with WIA but adding the caveat that it's bad to RELY on canned material.

Back to the original statement, I've always thought, and thankyou Jack Donovan for confirming this, that we should only really ever have 2-7 super close friends. I think we should be isolated though, it enables us to stick to what we most want and who we most wanna be rather than being influenced by... everything else, the good and the bad.

I think one of the tenets of self improvement is a degree of isolation, but it's also helpful to have that support of one or two boys you can lean on when times get tough, as they inevitably do.

[freewheeler]

(10-27-2013 08:07 PM)Kimber Wrote:  

I agree with WIA but adding the caveat that it's bad to RELY on canned material.

Back to the original statement, I've always thought, and thankyou Jack Donovan for confirming this, that we should only really ever have 2-7 super close friends. I think we should be isolated though, it enables us to stick to what we most want and who we most wanna be rather than being influenced by... everything else, the good and the bad.

I think one of the tenets of self improvement is a degree of isolation, but it's also helpful to have that support of one or two boys you can lean on when times get tough, as they inevitably do.

I agree with this, you definitely need some degree of isolation in order to remain true to yourself and clear in your intentions and goals. I'd hate to allow myself to be influenced by those around me as almost everyone is still plugged into the matrix of cultural bullshit. By maintaining some level of isolation I can selectively choose who I spend time with, seek advice from or allow to influence me.

As the saying goes, you are the average of your five closest friends.

I'll keep rolling solo unless I come across like-minded individuals with the same ambition, that I can form a "mastermind" group with. At the end of the day, I am perfectly content with myself as I'm always working on moving onwards and upwards in every aspect of my life. It's important that you truly know who you are, what you value and embrace your own demeanour.