[The Lizard of Oz]

Thanks for all the replies for what is, let's face it, a pretty depressing series of thoughts.

One thing I noticed about drinking hard is that it makes one extremely creative with respect to blaming anything and everything but the sauce as life becomes increasingly flat.

[el mechanico]

Lizard you're awfully young to take such a weak stance. You probably have many other factors for it maybe you should explain.

[DrugAdvisor]

Your post couldn't have come at a better time.

At 31, I have began to realize a lot of joys in life have dwindled without the presence of alcohol. To the extent that I can't enjoy going to cinemas without having a beer or two prior that (could be the screaming children in the cinemas that pre-empted this though).

That said, I do take liver tonics but will still need to cut drinking from 6 days a week to 1-2.

Thanks for the kickstarter OP!

[The Lizard of Oz]

Yeah I'm only really young in my avatar, Mech -- otherwise a ripe mid-thirties. You know I was wondering what you would say about this post, if anything.

I have a feeling that you agree with what a lot of what I wrote-- and you know what, I don't like it any better than you do.

I'm no "AA" guy and I can't stand teetotalers. But none of that takes away from my points.

Have you felt any of the subtle things I mentioned?

[el mechanico]

(10-21-2013 09:11 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Yeah I'm only really young in my avatar, Mech -- otherwise a ripe mid-thirties. You know I was wondering what you would say about this post, if anything.

I have a feeling that you agree with what a lot of what I wrote-- and you know what, I don't like it any better than you do.

I'm no "AA" guy and I can't stand teetotalers. But none of that takes away from my points.

Have you felt any of the subtle things I mentioned?

Balance my friend. Some people at my age do our best business after 5 while having some beers or whatever. Why? Because the dudes at our age couldn't handle the creature and blew their nut so those of us in control can chat leisurely while mixing drinks...

[big poppa]

I've seen first hand the affects of alcohol on people..

Ended my parents marriage (which was probably a good thing), and I'd say it's the primary reason my 30 yr old sibling is still living at home with a few grand debt and not a cent to their name despite finishing high school 14 yrs ago.

Good on the people who are able to manage it, which is the majority.. But I'd say it's possibly the most harmful substance when used in excess.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(10-21-2013 09:25 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 09:11 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Yeah I'm only really young in my avatar, Mech -- otherwise a ripe mid-thirties. You know I was wondering what you would say about this post, if anything.

I have a feeling that you agree with what a lot of what I wrote-- and you know what, I don't like it any better than you do.

I'm no "AA" guy and I can't stand teetotalers. But none of that takes away from my points.

Have you felt any of the subtle things I mentioned?

Balance my friend. Some people at my age do our best business after 5 while having some beers or whatever. Why? Because the dudes at our age couldn't handle the creature and blew their nut so those of us in control can chat leisurely while mixing drinks...

If you can hold on to it, do so. Just wouldn't want to see anyone kidding themselves.

Maybe I'll come down to FLA someday and break my wagon.

[el mechanico]

(10-21-2013 09:40 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 09:25 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 09:11 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Yeah I'm only really young in my avatar, Mech -- otherwise a ripe mid-thirties. You know I was wondering what you would say about this post, if anything.

I have a feeling that you agree with what a lot of what I wrote-- and you know what, I don't like it any better than you do.

I'm no "AA" guy and I can't stand teetotalers. But none of that takes away from my points.

Have you felt any of the subtle things I mentioned?

Balance my friend. Some people at my age do our best business after 5 while having some beers or whatever. Why? Because the dudes at our age couldn't handle the creature and blew their nut so those of us in control can chat leisurely while mixing drinks...

If you can hold on to it, do so. Just wouldn't want to see anyone kidding themselves.

Maybe I'll come down to FLA someday and break my wagon.

Stay on your wagon and spread the word. If you decide to drink..measure them and count. Stop before you will get a hangover.. Be in control..

[The Lizard of Oz]

(10-21-2013 10:11 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 09:40 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 09:25 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 09:11 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Yeah I'm only really young in my avatar, Mech -- otherwise a ripe mid-thirties. You know I was wondering what you would say about this post, if anything.

I have a feeling that you agree with what a lot of what I wrote-- and you know what, I don't like it any better than you do.

I'm no "AA" guy and I can't stand teetotalers. But none of that takes away from my points.

Have you felt any of the subtle things I mentioned?

Balance my friend. Some people at my age do our best business after 5 while having some beers or whatever. Why? Because the dudes at our age couldn't handle the creature and blew their nut so those of us in control can chat leisurely while mixing drinks...

If you can hold on to it, do so. Just wouldn't want to see anyone kidding themselves.

Maybe I'll come down to FLA someday and break my wagon.

Stay on your wagon and spread the word. If you decide to drink..measure them and count. Stop before you will get a hangover.. Be in control..

You're tossing back a few right now aren't you?

[el mechanico]

I did. Two drinks with two shots of vodka each, the first at work with the guys and the second while I made my steak then I poured what was left out and added water and lemonade mix to my second drink. Two drinks, clean, no problems and I feel good and will sleep great.

[iknowexactly]

(10-21-2013 11:29 AM)Dusty Wrote:  

I have friends who drink harder now than when we were in our 20s. They're totally fucked up. They're angry a lot, and lost their humor and charm. Bloated. the aging process has not been kind. I don't like being around them.

Anger and heavy boozing seem to go together, I've noticed that a lot.

I feel like the drinker can't accept something about the world, and they get stuck at that point-- they can't reconcile a healthy worldview with the fact they're not getting 18 YO cheerleaders, or something that bugs them.

And booze blurs the irreconcilable conflict.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(10-21-2013 10:21 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

I did. Two drinks with two shots of vodka each, the first at work with the guys and the second while I made my steak then I poured what was left out and added water and lemonade mix to my second drink. Two drinks, clean, no problems and I feel good and will sleep great.

"2" drinks with **2 shots each**



but seriously, Mech, I wasn't just talking about hangovers, control, etc. I was talking about the subtle ways in which drinking makes you feel that life just isn't as good as it used to be.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(10-21-2013 10:26 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 11:29 AM)Dusty Wrote:  

I have friends who drink harder now than when we were in our 20s. They're totally fucked up. They're angry a lot, and lost their humor and charm. Bloated. the aging process has not been kind. I don't like being around them.

Anger and heavy boozing seem to go together, I've noticed that a lot.

I feel like the drinker can't accept something about the world, and they get stuck at that point-- they can't reconcile a healthy worldview with the fact they're not getting 18 YO cheerleaders, or something that bugs them.

And booze blurs the irreconcilable conflict.

IKE, not getting 18 yr old cheerleaders is a damn good reason to get drunk off your ass!

[bacan]

I am doing a comparison of the work I get done in the weekends I drink vs not and it's huge..

I remember making a friend in his 30s who looked like he was in his 20s and I think his not drinking made a big difference...

Nice facts on chruchill/FDR/hitler..made me chuckle but I doubt they were getting trashed / almost blacked out every night

[Therapsid]

Too much moralism in this thread. Good intentions, but it's starting to sound like an AA meeting or temperance society lecture from the 1800's.

Let's be real - if all we care about is productivity, then cutting back on chasing new pussy would be the best way. How much time and money is "wasted" getting new ass. Even staying up late chasing girls could be hurting our health.

There's more to life than being a high functioning robot.

Anyway, that's the alcoholic devil on my shoulder's take on it.

[iknowexactly]

(10-21-2013 10:33 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

I feel like the drinker can't accept something about the world, and they get stuck at that point-- they can't reconcile a healthy worldview with the fact they're not getting 18 YO cheerleaders, or something that bugs them.

And booze blurs the irreconcilable conflict.

IKE, not getting 18 yr old cheerleaders is a damn good reason to get drunk off your ass!

I'm so old, I'm just happy when I don't scare them.

Poor things. They are prancing through their Disneyland college town thinking about fucking Biff the frat boy, and this horrible, shaggy, leering man starts staring at them!

[EisenBarde]

Everything in moderation.

[svenski7]

I've got a couple buddies who are headed down this road. It's a slow-motion train wreck. One guy is drinking in the shower in the morning at age 24. He's got a great girl and she puts up with it because she loves the D.

These guys don't usually lose girls by chasing drink. In fact, a lot of them do well in the night life scene except for some whiskey dick here and there. The problem is the mood and appearance changes that Liz mentions after age 30.

aphelion Wrote:

I'm probably bordering on alcoholic.

Moving to Poland in the near future probably isn't great for me. I'd probably be best moving to some some uber-religious shithole where alcohol wasn't available. Three months and I'd be dry as a bone, down twenty pounds and in the best shape of my life. My liver would recover, my spirits would improve and my productivity would skyrocket.

Go to Norway instead. $10/beer in the club.

[Hades]

I like the OP and can relate to it, but alcohol in general has brought me much value in life.
If it nukes your testosterone or causes personality changes and turn you into somebody's moody aunt by your thirties or forties then there are ways to mitigate its effect. You might never be able to go back to (heavy?) drinking more than one night per week but that is OK by my measure.

[w00t]

Lost one of my closest friends last year due to alcohol related incident. One of the smartest guys I know who slayed lots of pussy and was just buildig up his own company and on the way to make tons of money. Also a huge boozehound and one of the heaviest drinkers ive known. A real shame.

Myself Ive never been a big drinker as I get nasty hangovers I just dont handle the stuff well. Used to be a huge pothead but quit that and now Im one of those boring, sober people.

[aphelion]

(10-22-2013 12:31 AM)svenski7 Wrote:  

aphelion Wrote:

I'm probably bordering on alcoholic.

Moving to Poland in the near future probably isn't great for me. I'd probably be best moving to some some uber-religious shithole where alcohol wasn't available. Three months and I'd be dry as a bone, down twenty pounds and in the best shape of my life. My liver would recover, my spirits would improve and my productivity would skyrocket.

Go to Norway instead. $10/beer in the club.

lol, forget that, then I'd just be broke

[Lisitshko]

Got a question for those of you who made the transition from Beer to Mixed drinks / booze. Which btw. sounds horrible the way I just wrote it down here. One guy in the thread mentioned going to Germany and everyone drinking beer like water. Which is perfectly true, it's also not unusual to have a beer for business lunch. If you're brought up in the culture, you get used to it. The only times you drink booze in germany is for digestive reasons after a big ass xmas meal or at a wedding. Or a couple of Jägermeisters if all the beers just don't do the job.

Now I moved to Bulgaria. Totally different drinking culture. Guys always have two plastic cups or glasses in their hand, one filled with water, one with straight booze or a mixed drink. Of course you get way less dehydrated that way, also you have an insanely smaller calories intake. Smart! I for example don't even eat much, but if you drink 1-3 beers (0.5 Liter) every day or every other day and about 10-14 if you go out...well no wonder I don't have sixpack abs.

The problem is if you're used to German drinking culture what you basically do is you order beer after beer after beer until you can't drink anymore because a. the club is closing b. your stomach's just full c. german chick got you away from the bar. So you basically never pace yourself, either a chick does it or last call at 5am. I tried the bulgarian (or probably rather eastern-european way) two times, ended in a f**in desaster. Anyone got some hints?

[Stun]

As I've grown into late-30s I've had a less and less to drink. It makes my skin look like shit, makes me look tired, makes my sleep awry.

Never really struggled with depression from drinking but more than 3-4 and my equilibrium is fucked up for the next day.

Alcohol promotes estrogen - possibly more than anything else you can put in your body. It's linked to muscle loss, fat buildup, hair loss, hormonal imbalance - you name it.

If I want a buzz, I will smoke some kind Nor Cal medical weed before bed. Seems to make any anxieties go away for 24 hours.

For the younger guys though, drinking is not so bad. If you're under 30 for example, not drinking when you go out is almost weird. Drink but in moderation.

[Stun]

(10-22-2013 12:05 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  

Too much moralism in this thread. Good intentions, but it's starting to sound like an AA meeting or temperance society lecture from the 1800's.

Let's be real - if all we care about is productivity, then cutting back on chasing new pussy would be the best way. How much time and money is "wasted" getting new ass. Even staying up late chasing girls could be hurting our health.

There's more to life than being a high functioning robot.

Anyway, that's the alcoholic devil on my shoulder's take on it.

It isn't all feast of famine, it's more about not taking two steps forward and one step back.

To me life is about 1) having fun, 2) banging girls, 3) looking good, 4) feeling good, 5) being a good friend 6) helping others 7) looking out for family and 8) having a financial situation that doesn't limit the first seven things.

So it's not about being the highest functioning human, but about an overall health and happiness vibe. I tend to drink socially when meeting new girls, at parties, at holidays. But outside of that - not a lot, because I know it's going to hinder my goals and ambitions.

One of which I'm not ashamed to admit is walking into a room, having girls look at me and then think "I want to fuck him."

[K Galt]

Just want to point out that there is a difference between use and abuse when it comes to drinking alcohol.

When it comes to longevity and overall health, moderate daily drinkers are better off then both heavy drinkers and teetotalers.

In other words, drinking moderately is actually better for you than not drinking at all.

Of course, this comes with a bunch of caveats...

The quality of your diet and lifestyle, the quality of the booze you regularly drink, and the reasons why you drink.

Like most young adults in this day and age, I started out a binge drinker getting plastered every weekend with my friends.

Now that I'm older, I've settled into a moderate consumption lifestyle - 2-4 drinks a day, 6 days a week. (Had two drams of 4 Roses Bourbon and 3 Sierra Nevada Torpedoes last night...I feel perfectly fine this morning). Whenever I get together with friends for social occasions, I'll typically drink 6-10 drinks then (paced out over long periods of time and interspersed with eating a meal or two), but still never enough to get totally plastered, and I haven't had a real hangover in about 3 years. Even after 8 drinks or so, at worst I wake up with a dry mouth and feel a little bit tired...but nothing like the hangovers I used to get when my diet was shitty, and I used to drink all kinds of mixed drinks and cheap beer, and I drank with the actual, sole goal of getting drunk.

Now, I only drink micro-brewed, craft beers and high quality spirits straight - primarily barrel aged whiskey and 100% Agave tequila, and I drink to get a nice buzz and then I stop. I also pace myself and don't do "shots," but rather, I almost always just sip my spirits intermittently while drinking my beer.

This, I believe, is the way to use alcohol to enhance your life, health and well being.

To think of it another way, alcohol is a MEDICINE.

Like any medicine, there is a proper way to take the correct dosage to benefit your health...

...and there's a way to abuse it and suffer the consequences of overdosing and side effects.

One pill of acetaminophen (Tylenol) can relieve your aches and pains from a hard days work. 10 pills taken in a short period of time can literally destroy your liver and kill you.

It's the exact same principle with alcohol.

For sure, heavy drinking will contribute to premature aging and bad health (combined with high stress and bad diet and lifestyle)...but that doesn't mean alcohol in and of itself is bad for your health. In terms of stress and blood pressure, the proper amount consumed benefits in relieving stress and lowering blood pressure.

TL;DR

If you are getting hangovers when you drink alcohol, you're overdosing yourself and damaging your health.

If you drink and don't experience a hangover, than you drank just enough to actually improve your health and well being.

I good buzz is relaxing, improves your mood, relieves your stress, lubricates your social skills and lowers your blood pressure.

Find your proper dosage and enjoy life!

Cheers!