The book really makes sense to me. How many of you guys use it as a base for game?
Is "The Art of Seduction" a good base for game?
I have not read it, so I can not give a opinion. I recommend you to throw yourself headlong on the field, with 0 theory. Make a solid group of friends and have fun.
His 8 step process
1) Choose the right "victim"
2) Create a false sense of security - approach indirectly
3) Send mixed signals
4) Appear to be an object of desire
5) Create a need
6) Master the art of insinuation
7) Enter their spirit
8) Create temptation
Not awful, maybe a little too politically correct, a little too mamby pamby, but arguably it's a decent interpretation of what used to be called "indirect game". I'd say it's a pretty high level or abstraction of the Style/Mystery perspective on game.
But here's his advice on the beginning of the seduction phase from page 193.
"For those who might be more resistant or difficult, you should try a slower and more insidious approach, first winning their friendship"
Does this sound familiar to you?
Haven't you and every man on the planet already tried this?
I know I have.
Minor Mistake?
It's one thing to have a typo.
Another thing to have a difference of opinion.
But from the very beginning, where you don't agree with a major premise of how women interact with men - then you have to wonder about the rest of it.
Let's go back to step 1
"Everything depends on the target of your seduction. Study your prey thoroughly, and choose only those who will prove susceptible to your
charms.
^Is this good general advice?
Isn't this basically saying "Don't date out of your league, don't try and talk to someone who isn't already predisposed to like you"
That's horrible game advice, especially when given to men who are seeking seduction advice in a book or online. A lot of men come to the game thinking that NO PRETTY GIRL likes them.
Going through it now with what I know now, makes me think this is a horrible book to base any kind of game philosophy on it, because it's so divorced from the reality of dating today. (or even in 2003 when it came out)
WIA
1) Choose the right "victim"
2) Create a false sense of security - approach indirectly
3) Send mixed signals
4) Appear to be an object of desire
5) Create a need
6) Master the art of insinuation
7) Enter their spirit
8) Create temptation
Not awful, maybe a little too politically correct, a little too mamby pamby, but arguably it's a decent interpretation of what used to be called "indirect game". I'd say it's a pretty high level or abstraction of the Style/Mystery perspective on game.
But here's his advice on the beginning of the seduction phase from page 193.
"For those who might be more resistant or difficult, you should try a slower and more insidious approach, first winning their friendship"
Does this sound familiar to you?
Haven't you and every man on the planet already tried this?
I know I have.
Minor Mistake?
It's one thing to have a typo.
Another thing to have a difference of opinion.
But from the very beginning, where you don't agree with a major premise of how women interact with men - then you have to wonder about the rest of it.
Let's go back to step 1
"Everything depends on the target of your seduction. Study your prey thoroughly, and choose only those who will prove susceptible to your
charms.
^Is this good general advice?
Isn't this basically saying "Don't date out of your league, don't try and talk to someone who isn't already predisposed to like you"
That's horrible game advice, especially when given to men who are seeking seduction advice in a book or online. A lot of men come to the game thinking that NO PRETTY GIRL likes them.
Going through it now with what I know now, makes me think this is a horrible book to base any kind of game philosophy on it, because it's so divorced from the reality of dating today. (or even in 2003 when it came out)
WIA
This book actually helps you understand more "girl game" than a man's game. Now granted, girl game can only exist if a girl is hot enough for you to invest in the first place but nonetheless it helps you identify her type and calibrate accordingly.
"If men knew all that women think, they would be twenty times more daring."- Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr
I haven't read it, but I wouldn't take game advice from a mainstream author. If he wrote a book like Bang, his reputation would probably be destroyed, and he would never make the NYT list again.
I wouldn't be surprised if Tim Ferris writers a book on game next. It's a huge market, the dude has a mostly young male following, and he's a great marketer. I could see him writing a book on "hacking" your dating life. It would probably have some very interesting and out of the box information, as all of his books do, but no way he could write anything close to as real as Roosh. People would call him a rapist and his reputation would suffer greatly.
Mainstream authors don't have the professional freedom to write a solid game book I don't think, society would cripple them for it.
At least that's my thought. Could very well be wrong.
I wouldn't be surprised if Tim Ferris writers a book on game next. It's a huge market, the dude has a mostly young male following, and he's a great marketer. I could see him writing a book on "hacking" your dating life. It would probably have some very interesting and out of the box information, as all of his books do, but no way he could write anything close to as real as Roosh. People would call him a rapist and his reputation would suffer greatly.
Mainstream authors don't have the professional freedom to write a solid game book I don't think, society would cripple them for it.
At least that's my thought. Could very well be wrong.
The book is seductive itself especially when they talk about the different types of seducers. It feels cool te be classified as one of them and you already feel like some sort of seducer by reading this book. I do believe the book is a litte blue-pilled but I think it's helpful for seducing women over a longer time period than going for a same-night bang for us less experienced in same night closing. Friendship is a very subjective fluid term and it is very risky to even use that word when gaming a girl these days. Has some good history though.
Quote: (10-16-2013 10:50 PM)YoungBlood Wrote:
This book actually helps you understand more "girl game" than a man's game. Now granted, girl game can only exist if a girl is hot enough for you to invest in the first place but nonetheless it helps you identify her type and calibrate accordingly.
Explain this girl game.
The book isn't really about sexual/romantic seduction, despite how it's sold.
I see it more as a guide to creating seductive ideologies, and it's better as a companion to the 48 Laws, because it gives you a wide range of character archetypes to exploit or model yourself on.
If you're down on Greene's books because you think they're too blue-pill, you're misreading them. He's never put a massive political spin on any of his work, it's the very definition of amoral.
"Here are anecdotes and techniques - draw from them and use them as you will."
I see it more as a guide to creating seductive ideologies, and it's better as a companion to the 48 Laws, because it gives you a wide range of character archetypes to exploit or model yourself on.
If you're down on Greene's books because you think they're too blue-pill, you're misreading them. He's never put a massive political spin on any of his work, it's the very definition of amoral.
"Here are anecdotes and techniques - draw from them and use them as you will."
"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold
48 Laws of Power was dope. It really changed my life and like crippler said the book is fun to read because of the different personas you can adopt or prey on. The most interesting part though was the anti-seducers chapter and I realized why I had failed with certain seduction, be it women, friends, bosses, professors, etc.
Quote: (10-17-2013 06:21 AM)rudeBoy Wrote:
Quote: (10-16-2013 10:50 PM)YoungBlood Wrote:
This book actually helps you understand more "girl game" than a man's game. Now granted, girl game can only exist if a girl is hot enough for you to invest in the first place but nonetheless it helps you identify her type and calibrate accordingly.
Explain this girl game.
Explanation here:
http://www.returnofkings.com/7543/americ...ve-no-game
Quote: (10-17-2013 03:08 PM)Baphomet Wrote:
Quote: (10-17-2013 06:21 AM)rudeBoy Wrote:
Quote: (10-16-2013 10:50 PM)YoungBlood Wrote:
This book actually helps you understand more "girl game" than a man's game. Now granted, girl game can only exist if a girl is hot enough for you to invest in the first place but nonetheless it helps you identify her type and calibrate accordingly.
Explain this girl game.
Explanation here:
http://www.returnofkings.com/7543/americ...ve-no-game
Thanks
I read "The Art of Seduction" many years ago and was quite disappointed. There's almost no actionable advice in it. No descriptions of typical ways of meeting women, or the behaviour of the ordinary every day hoe we meet everywhere, or any situation where an ordinary guy could find himself in and how to deal with it. Only historical anecdotes of seduction and theoretical analysis thereof. I could hardly relate to any of that. The only little gem I still remember from it is to play hot&cold with the girl (the victim). Could hardly even call it a gem.
Think about it this way: Unless Robert Greene has dedicated a significant amount of his life on approaching and meeting women and has laid them in the triple digits, he has no idea what he's writing. You're much better off data mining this forum for useful gems of wisdom and reading books from authors who actually do approach and seduce a lot (Roosh's books included here).
And to give him credit where he deserves, his other book "48 Laws of Power" is one of the best books out there on the games that people play to get in power. If you haven't read it you definitely should.
Think about it this way: Unless Robert Greene has dedicated a significant amount of his life on approaching and meeting women and has laid them in the triple digits, he has no idea what he's writing. You're much better off data mining this forum for useful gems of wisdom and reading books from authors who actually do approach and seduce a lot (Roosh's books included here).
And to give him credit where he deserves, his other book "48 Laws of Power" is one of the best books out there on the games that people play to get in power. If you haven't read it you definitely should.
Quote: (10-18-2013 01:20 PM)Caveman Wrote:
I read "The Art of Seduction" many years ago and was quite disappointed. There's almost no actionable advice in it. No descriptions of typical ways of meeting women, or the behaviour of the ordinary every day hoe we meet everywhere, or any situation where an ordinary guy could find himself in and how to deal with it. Only historical anecdotes of seduction and theoretical analysis thereof. I could hardly relate to any of that. The only little gem I still remember from it is to play hot&cold with the girl (the victim). Could hardly even call it a gem.
Think about it this way: Unless Robert Greene has dedicated a significant amount of his life on approaching and meeting women and has laid them in the triple digits, he has no idea what he's writing. You're much better off data mining this forum for useful gems of wisdom and reading books from authors who actually do approach and seduce a lot (Roosh's books included here).
And to give him credit where he deserves, his other book "48 Laws of Power" is one of the best books out there on the games that people play to get in power. If you haven't read it you definitely should.
I read 48 Laws and it is dope. It is theoretical but I believe that Greene has not experienced the social environment now b/c of his age. My favorite part of the book is the anti-seducers section. Those seem to be the most relevant and applicable bits of info to me personally.
I found the parts about the 8 seducer types and the anti-seducer to be dope. I was unable to get far beyond that. Lot of his "advice" isn't practical and directly applicable but rather a whole bunch of mental masturbation
Conquer your Campus was my first game book. It's geared towards utilizing the insular social network of college. It made perfect sense and helped me become more well rounded in my game. Ironically, it helped angle me into more effective day and social network game.
It's a good foundation that takes away from the "be a seducer" and more into the "life of the party" transformation.
It's a good foundation that takes away from the "be a seducer" and more into the "life of the party" transformation.
I've read it. I prefer books by people who have proven that they know what they're doing. Mystery, Juggler, whoever. Greene can write pretty words, but that doesn't mean that he is right or that his advice is useful.
take a look at robert greene's wife or live-in girlfriend. We should consider the game advice of guys who swoop the type of women we want to get with. Here's what his elaborate game has accomplished
![[Image: Anna_Biller_01.jpg]](http://www.lifeofastar.com/images/Anna_Biller_01.jpg)
Quote: (10-25-2013 10:52 AM)polymath Wrote:
I've read it. I prefer books by people who have proven that they know what they're doing. Mystery, Juggler, whoever. Greene can write pretty words, but that doesn't mean that he is right or that his advice is useful.
It's a book everyone should read eventually but it's hard to learn anything from it because it only refers to historical examples.
Only using examples is not a great way to teach something.
I think the book is aimed for those who look into the long term rather than to get laid ASAP. Since Roosh doesn't go into long-term relationships in Bang, I reckon its a decent follow-up for those that are looking into going long-term while staying IN control of the relationship.
I read it and enjoyed it, but I agree that it doesn't have concrete examples or patterns to run or anything like that. But it can add to your overall portfolio of knowledge, which to me makes it worthwhile.
But don't mistake it for Bang or The Game or the like.
But don't mistake it for Bang or The Game or the like.
Quote: (10-17-2013 07:24 AM)crippler Wrote:
The book isn't really about sexual/romantic seduction, despite how it's sold.
I see it more as a guide to creating seductive ideologies, and it's better as a companion to the 48 Laws, because it gives you a wide range of character archetypes to exploit or model yourself on.
This.
If you're looking for practical executable pickup advice, this isn't the book.
Greene's book is about broader seduction - how ideas, personalities, and political movements seduce us. If you were trying to slowly turn a longtime friend into a lover, the advice isn't bad. If you were a celebrity trying to craft a new image, the ideas aren't bad. And if you want to read a lot of interesting history and stories, it's a great book.
If you're looking to bang a girl in under an hour, this isn't the book. If you want to slowly LTR someone, might be some good advice.
Read my work on Return of Kings here.
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