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Solar Panels UK - anyone installed them?
#1

Solar Panels UK - anyone installed them?

I am considering having solar panels installed on my roof and was wondering if anyone else from the UK has done this and can vouch for the claims made by the salesman.

Basically the cost for a 4kw system is £6250, which will then generate about £500 a year cash back from the government and about £150 year saving on my electric bill. These payments are guaranteed for 20 years and index linked at 2.5% (all money is tax free)

Just wondering if anyone has any experience of this and whether the figures are accurate?

Thanks.
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#2

Solar Panels UK - anyone installed them?

I have done in USA. Panels costs have dropped significantly. My 5KW system was about $9,000. It is producing about 30KWH to 40KWH per day. At electricity price of $0.11 KwH it is about $4 / day.
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#3

Solar Panels UK - anyone installed them?

Does the money you save take into account inflation?

Also - what happens if your solar panels break down. Will the company fix them? And if so - what happens if the company is bust 5/10 years from now?

My brother runs a company which installs solar panels (and other renewable energy products) and he doesn't have solar panels installed on his house. And he hasn't encouraged his family to get them installed either.

Also - the government cut the feed-in-tarriff a year ago. So - the deal you are getting now won't be as good as it was a year ago.

And I am not sure how feed-in-tarriffs work. Do you get locked into an agreed amount of savings? Or does the government have the right to reduce it (or cancel it) whenever they want? I suspect it is the latter - but I am not sure. As such - your future savings could be at the mercy of any futue decisions made by the government.

You have to remember that the wind (pardon the pun) is blowing against renewable energy. There is a serious chance of black-outs in the next 2-4 years - since the UK has closed too many traditional power stations in the name of helping the environment (completely pointless - since the exact same power stations will just be transported to the third world where there are even fewer environmental regulations).

And the rising cost of electrictiy bills is a growing issue in politics (Ed Milliband 'won' the recent party conference season by campaigning on this). And the feed-in-tarriff is paid for by a top-up in everybody else's electricity bills. So - I can easily imagine it coming under further scrutiny in the future.

Personally - I am sceptical about this sort of thing. Once you have your money tied up in this - you can't get it out. Whereas if you spent the money on shares (or other investments) - you can easily withdraw it any time you want.

The money is just an investment - and you have to ask yourself if the risk/reward is worth it when you take into account the potential future pitfalls.

You say the money is index-linked at 2.5%. Well - I am guessing that means the money will rise by 2.5% each year - to take into account inflation.

Well - the government's target for inflation is 2% (with a variation between 1-3% being deemed acceptable). If you study the charts - you will see that inflation has been above 2.5% for most of the UK's history:

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/education...chart.aspx

And the important point is that Britain currently has record low interest rates, and is currently printing money to prop up the economy. As such - we could be in line for much higher inflation as Britain takes the unofficial policy of trying to inflate away our national debt.

One other thing. We are (hopefully) about to enter a revolution in Britain's energy supply - as we undergo the shale gas fracking revolution. In recent years - this technology has lead to gas prices halving in America. Similarly it is hoped that the same will happen in the UK. One hopes if this happens that it will bring pressure to help force down the price of electricity as well.

So - as you can tell - my gut instinct is to be sceptical of this. Whenever the government organises projects which will pay off decades in the future - I am very sceptical. Since within 5-8 years - the very people responsible for such projects have long since moved on from those positions of power. And it is often in the interests of those who take over to sabotage any schemes left behind so as to show that they were hare-brained ideas in the first place.

Imagine how much of a shit politicians of today would give to promises made by opposition parties back in 2003 or 1993?

I could go on further here. But I think it is telling that alot of the people selling these products (such as my brother) are not actually choosing to install it in their own properties. And on a side note - alot of the claims made about the power generated by solar power - do not live up to reality. The numbers produced in a laboratory - often depend on solar panels being in excellent working order - and having access to direct sunlight.

How are such numbers calculated? Do they assume the sun shines 24 hours a day? Do they assume the sun shines all year round? These are obvious questions - but one thing that isn't so obvious, is that any shadows that are cast on to your solar panels can badly affect the figures as well (this is more common that you might think since the sun moves during the day - as such shadows can pop up at certain times of the day depending on the location of nearby trees and so on).

To finish. The people selling these equipment often don't have it installed in their own property. And the people who do buy these equipment, are often schools (who want a nice story for the school newspaper) or companies that want to burnish their green image. And middle-class folks who care passionately about the environment.

With that in mind - the demand is not largely drived by those who think this is a sure-fire way of saving enough money to make the investment worthwhile. Which is odd - since if that were the case, there would be no logical reason why everyone in the country wouldn't be clamoring for solar panels.

That is the way I feel about this. But I am no expert. A good place to hear people discuss these issues is on the (excellent) moneysavingexpert site.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utiliti..._content=1

And here is an example of the sort of intelligent discussions on this issue you will find on the moneysavingexpert forum:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/show...599&page=1

The above is just my opinions. I am going on my own take here - which means I may be totally wrong in some way. Or it means I may be coming to some intelligent conclusions which others have overlooked. Hopefully it is the latter.
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#4

Solar Panels UK - anyone installed them?

I used to install solar panels with my buddy when I was in the USA so I can chip in a bit. He still runs his own shop out of NJ but has expanded to CA and NY.

A Feed In Tariff (FIT) is a monetary mechanism to encourage the use of renewables (particularly solar) in USA and Germany. I believe it started in Germany, caught on well and then spread to USA and then rest of world.

Basically, the utility and you sign a contract where you generate electricity from your rooftop and pump it back into the system. The price of this is called the levelized cost of electricity, which is based on many assumptions - solar radiance, no. of hours of operation, technology type (1st gen or 2nd gen) and amount of MW on your system. Originally, the rate was determined as the Avoided Cost, which were designed to reflect the cost that a utility would incur to provide that same electrical generation.

In the US, FITs typically offer a guaranteed purchase agreement for 20-25 year periods but I dont know if it has changed because of the changes in policy in recent times. Remember the utility guarantees a price certainty through a long-term contract with FIT guarantee by the Government. And given the crashing prices of solar panels since 2008, we have achieved grid parity, which means that the cost of generating electricity through solar matches the average cost of electricity production using gas or coal.

So it sounds good that you want to install panels on your rooftop? Just hold on.

Because it succeeded spectacularly in Germany, there was a drop in electricity prices during peak output times with savings for consumers. Savings for consumers meant reductions in the profit margin of big electric power companies, who lobbied the German government to reduce subsidies. So if the incentives are less, there are no savings for consumers to incorporate solar on their rooftops.

Assuming you're in the UK, I would strictly say no to installing solar on your rooftop. 1) No abundance of sunlight. Let's face it. UK is mostly cloudy across the year. Therefore, the energy generated when you have sunlight will be small and it will affect your payback on the installation of the system.
2) Inconsistent policies screwing the consumer - the DECC has screwing consumers by reducing the tariff rates for solar systems. While it has been overturned by the courts, you will have no incentive to have this if the Government decides to reduce rates.

Hence, my advice would be no to installing one.
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#5

Solar Panels UK - anyone installed them?

I predicted a back lash against Green tarrifs in my earlier post. Well it has begun:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013...st-cameron
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