[DVY]

I've been saying this for years. Global warming gloom and doom was a platform that some politican (ahem Al Gore) ran on.

I did an Environmental Studies course during my schooling and nobody else mentioned that the Earth has gone through at least 7 "global coooling and warming period". A big one was the Ice-Age.

This view was future solidified by reading "Fooled by Randomness". Humans frequently misattribute the future from the past patterns(namely regarding random stock fluctuations (timing markets))

Alas heres the article- 60% growth in the Artic Ice~!!!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/...nevermind/

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/09/0...t-in-2013/

I wouldn't rule out global warming just yet, but some skepticism is in order for the next SWPL or SWHL (stuff white people hate list).

[Tex Pro]

If you have time, please watch this video. It is pretty good.

[kosko]

It's been the coldest year on average here in Toronto/mid-west. It dipped to almost zero the other night when last year I was wearing shorts at this time of year.

It's all a sham.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Just because a die is loaded for 6 doesn't mean you can't still get a 1 now and then.

[Tuthmosis]

I approached a girl in Starbucks and she rejected me.

Game is a sham.

[Aliblahba]

(09-16-2013 11:46 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

I approached a girl in Starbucks and she rejected me.

Game is a sham.

To be fair straight girls don't go there. You either got rejected by:

1. A feminist
2. A lesbian
3. A Tranny

[Enigma]

I think these arguments are ridiculous.

Humans have killed off entire species of animals, we cut down whole forests daily, we spill oil into the ocean, we throw our non-biodegradeable trash everywhere, and we are depleting all of the planet's natural resources. There has a been a fucking nuclear reactor in Japan leaking radiation for the past two years.

And you've got guys who can't see the forest for the trees arguing about what temperature it was at this time last year and other talking points. I don't know nor do I care whether "global warming" is truly taking place. It is, however, a FACT that we are rapidly destroying Earth and I'm not mad at anything that brings more awareness to the situation.

[Mentavious]

Global Warming doesn't exist.

No such thing are science guys...it's all part of the plan from a "higher power".

[Genghis Khan]

Read The Signal and The Noise by Nate silver. He does a good job explaining the complexities behind climate change.

Nassim Taken, although a smart guy, thinks he's an expert on everything. I take everything he says with a grain of salt.

Also check out skepticalscience.com. the site does a great job going through each criticism of global warming. I personally don't take anyone seriously unless the person's gone through this website and has a good counter argument

[Wadsworth]

Anyone who thinks man-made global warming or climate change is a sham is desperately in need of education.

And FYI, you're doing exactly the same thing the feminists are. We bring irrefutable evidence in the form of statistics to feminists and they dismiss it because it's not what they want to believe. Same thing here. I don't know why you guys want to believe climate change is a sham, but the evidence in favor of this hypothesis is overwhelming. Holding up some lone instance and then detaching it from any analysis within the broader context isn't evidence of anything, it's just pointless denial.

[scotian]

I'm a bit of a skeptic myself, mostly because I don't understand the complex science behind it but especially because the global warming crowd took a very legitimate concern and made it so highly politicized that the average Joe, like me, has no idea what to believe. There seems to be a lot of disinformation out there. The entire Kyoto Accord and all other UN summits such as the Copenhagen summit are farces that accomplish nothing except allowing a bunch of champagne socialists to rub shoulders with each other all over the world at tax payers expense. They come up all of these wacky plans to transfer wealth between nations with carbon credits and impose carbon taxes (wasn't there some kind of carbon exchange in Chicago or something, how's that working out?) and who ends up paying for all this BS? The little guys like you and I.

Also, I work in the Oil Sands, which is often targeted by esteemed environmental scientists such as Neil Young, James Cameron and Darryl Hannah and claimed to be "an environmental catastrophe." I'll admit that mining and resource extraction in general isn't pretty, anywhere in the world, but people are so ill informed about the realities of the Oil Sands by the global warming and anti-oil crowd that I don't even bother telling people where I work while traveling or in a major (read, left wing) Canadian city.

I'm all for the development of alternative fuel sources but from what I've seen so far, they don't work very well and usually once government subsidies are taken away, these companies go bankrupt and fold. I think even Germany, the world's leader in green energy has backed off from their use of wind and solar power and increased their use of coal. Spain royally screwed their economy over by jumping on the green energy bandwagon, Australia imposed a carbon tax and their mining companies mothballed major projects, although I think they kiboshed the tax now, Canada has basically transformed itself into a petro -state, fuck ya! The list goes on with the big government ideas to save us all, I don't trust them.

[Tex Pro]

Humans can change the climate of a planet. It is called terraforming:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming

^Scientists have known how to do this for a long time.

The only real problem (and one global warming skeptics generally don't bring up because it undermines their whole argument) is how do you get off fossil fuels and still maintain the current level of energy price and consumption? That is the real problem. We once thought nuclear power would be the solution, but the nuclear reactor accidents of the the last few decades have put a lot of doubt to using nuclear power to replace fossil fuels, so there aren't a lot of really good solutions right now to this problem.

[not_dead_yet]

(09-16-2013 02:11 PM)Wadsworth Wrote:  

Anyone who thinks man-made global warming or climate change is a sham is desperately in need of education.

And FYI, you're doing exactly the same thing the feminists are. We bring irrefutable evidence in the form of statistics to feminists and they dismiss it because it's not what they want to believe. Same thing here. I don't know why you guys want to believe climate change is a sham, but the evidence in favor of this hypothesis is overwhelming. Holding up some lone instance and then detaching it from any analysis within the broader context isn't evidence of anything, it's just pointless denial.

Here's what's irrefutable -- climate is changing all the time; man's activities are far from the driving force here; and, e.g., implementing a carbon tax in Australia, is just a way to beggar the poor to let the rich salve their egos.

Here's what else is irrefutable -- there's been no measurable change in the global mean temperature anomaly for SEVENTEEN years, even though CO2 has significantly increased since then. Who's the denialist here?

Tell you what -- if it's really a problem, then why not just pump sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere until you get the desired level of cooling? No need for giant government bureaucracies, or a new CO2 credit market controlled by Goldman Sachs, or a carbon tax that makes life for the poor even worse.

I look forward to your reply.

[TheKantian]

Climate change debates on the interwebz are stupid.

You have people who know nothing about climatology at all usually citing research they don't understand or even worse citing some pundit about climate change. Either way it's a massive fail.

[Tex Pro]

(09-16-2013 02:58 PM)TheKantian Wrote:  

Climate change debates on the interwebz are stupid.

You have people who know nothing about climatology at all usually citing research they don't understand or even worse citing some pundit about climate change. Either way it's a massive fail.

I guess we could run a worldwide experiment then if the climate change skeptics are so sure climate change is a scam:

Let's all switch back to burning coal for all of our energy needs, and let's burn it as dirty as possible (no scrubbers in the smokestacks) so that a maximum amount of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases get emitted into the atmosphere. After all, humans can't change the climate according to skeptics, so why bother with clean energy at all.

You could have a new slogan: Burn, baby, burn.

[durangotang]

(09-16-2013 02:11 PM)Wadsworth Wrote:  

Anyone who thinks man-made global warming or climate change is a sham is desperately in need of education.

I have been hearing that claptrap for 10 years. Allow me to amend your statement to reflect your true ideology:

"Anyone who thinks man-made global warming or climate change is a sham is desperately in need of re-education."

Perhaps we could send them to a re-education camp?

It is not about science. It is about politicizing and skewing data to create a consensus "science" in the name of an ideology. In other words, junk science. The ideology is anti-capitalist, anti-freedom, and pro-government regulation of all parts of our lives. Implementation of carbon cap-and-trade ensures only big business can afford necessary carbon emissions, smart meters determine when and how much electricity you can use, when you can heat or cool your house, how much you can travel, how big of a television you can own, etc.

After the fall of the Berlin wall hard line marxists had to look elsewhere to implement their ideology so they infiltrated the environmental movement as a means to carry on. It ceased being the green movement and subsequently became the red movement in disguise. The centralized state planning that was supposed to free the proletariat and lead to utopia was an utter disaster, but rather than change their ideology to reflect the results, the reds merely changed their purported aims. The state now must fight capitalist interests to save the planet. Surrender your freedom to the politburo or the planet will be destroyed. It is because you are not living like a preindustrial peasant that the planet is at risk. You are too free, too prosperous, and must be subdued - and they are the enlightened ones who know best how to think and run your lives.

We are dealing with ideologues here and that has proven correct time and time again, despite the propaganda, from Climate-gate to global cooling. Initially it was global cooling to worry about in the 1970's. Then in the 1990's propaganda effort took the position that green house gasses (namely carbon dioxide) caused a heating of the planet by retaining solar radiation in the upper atmosphere and promoted the idea of "global warming" due to carbon emissions caused by industry. A remarkable multi-billion dollar campaign of misinformation was launched in an effort regulate and gain control of industry and the personal lives of citizens in western industrial nations. You couldn't go a week without reading or hearing about the talking point "global warming." Global warming. Global warming. Global warming. Hell, Al Gore even won an Oscar for his efforts in spinning the party line.

Then a funny thing happened. The planet stopped warming and a rogue hacker demonstrated to the world that global mean temperatures were being manipulated to serve the ideologues with the Climate-gate scandal. Admit defeat? Never. It was time to rebrand the propaganda campaign: Climate change. Climate change. Climate change. Climate change.

What the hell does climate change mean? It means anything you want it to mean. Bad blizzard? Climate change. Hurricane? Climate change. "Record" freeze? Climate change. "Record" heat wave? Climate change. All due to C02 in the atmosphere caused by your lifestyle.

Headlines like these were widespread a decade ago:



Today, we have NASA data demonstrating the opposite:



"The Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific has remained blocked by pack-ice all year. More than 20 yachts that had planned to sail it have been left ice-bound and a cruise ship attempting the route was forced to turn back." [link]

If the propaganda campaign "Climate Change" begins to lose traction, the whole campaign will have to rebrand. In fact, if you pay attention, you even can hear the slogan of the next talking points beginning to emerge: "bio diversity." Admit defeat? Never. We are dealing with ideologues here.

Never forget that. Deal with them accordingly.

[Aliblahba]

(09-16-2013 03:14 PM)durangotang Wrote:  

If the propaganda campaign "Climate Change" begins to lose traction, the whole campaign will have to rebrand. In fact, if you pay attention, you even can hear the slogan of the next talking points beginning to emerge: "bio diversity." Admit defeat? Never. We are dealing with ideologues here.

Never forget that. Deal with them accordingly.

Some new ideas for the next rebranding:


Climate Rapists
Weather Misogynists
Environmental Oppressors


As they get short on who to blame, it will eventually fall on men somehow. After all all those groups are linked.

Democrat= Environmentalist = Greenpeace= Liberal = Al Gore = Feminist = Socialism = Anil Dash = Nitasha Tiku = BBC = CNN = Ect.

All one big ball of lying wretched shit.

[scotian]

(09-16-2013 03:04 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 02:58 PM)TheKantian Wrote:  

Climate change debates on the interwebz are stupid.

You have people who know nothing about climatology at all usually citing research they don't understand or even worse citing some pundit about climate change. Either way it's a massive fail.

I guess we could run a worldwide experiment then if the climate change skeptics are so sure climate change is a scam:

Let's all switch back to burning coal for all of our energy needs, and let's burn it as dirty as possible (no scrubbers in the smokestacks) so that a maximum amount of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases get emitted into the atmosphere. After all, humans can't change the climate according to skeptics, so why bother with clean energy at all.

You could have a new slogan: Burn, baby, burn.

I'm glad that you mentioned coal as I just finished a three month stint at a massive coal fired electrical power plant in Estevan, Saskatchewan which is being retofitted and they're installing a carbon capture recovery system, the pilot project is a collaboration between government and industry and is the largest of its kind in the world. You can read more about it here. From another article, "This Canadian, $1.24-billion integrated carbon capture & storage project is retrofitting SaskPower's coal-fired Boundary Dam Power Station in Estevan, Saskatchewan with a carbon capture system. Captured CO2 will be used for enhanced oil recovery and stored in deep saline aquifers. This could be the first commercial-scale project in the world combining post-combustion CCS with coal-fired power generation.....The venture is a partnership between the Canadian government, the province of Saskatchewan and facility owner SaskPower. Saskatchewan has a 300-year supply of coal and is keen to fast-track the development of clean coal technologies.

I really hope this project that I was involved in will be a success as countries such as the USA, Canada, Oz, etc have lots of coal. Again, I'm all for clean energy and alternative energy, I'm just not a big of environmental nut jobs who want to throw me out of work.

[Enigma]

The environment is fine guys...

Meanwhile, bees are going extinct.

[kdolo]

(09-16-2013 04:07 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

The environment is fine guys...

Meanwhile, bees are going extinct.

Pesticides

[kdolo]

(09-16-2013 12:22 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

I think these arguments are ridiculous.

I don't know nor do I care whether "global warming" is truly taking place.
...........

......no disrespect, but you argue like a woman.....

you essentially said that you don't care about the facts, logic, or counterargument. you only care about what you feel......

[Enigma]

(09-16-2013 04:10 PM)kdolo Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 04:07 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

The environment is fine guys...

Meanwhile, bees are going extinct.

Pesticides

Yes. Man-made pesticides and loss of habitat causing the extinction of a species would still be considered an environmental problem.

If you'll notice my other post in this thread, I state I don't t care about global warming as a talking point because it keeps people running in circles and distracts from the bigger and less debateable picture of overall environmental decline.

[Enigma]

(09-16-2013 04:15 PM)kdolo Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 12:22 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

I think these arguments are ridiculous.

I don't know nor do I care whether "global warming" is truly taking place.
...........

......no disrespect, but you argue like a woman.....

you essentially said that you don't care about the facts, logic, or counterargument. you only care about what you feel......

No, I said I don't care to debate global warming when we could focus on the bigger picture which is that we are killing all of the life on this planet and contaminating it with oil and radiation. So actually I'm choosing to focus on the established facts rather than argue about weather patterns which we still don't fully understand.

No disrespect but you fail to type in a manner that even approaches correct English and thus reveals a strong lack of logical thought on your own part.

Edit: I'll throw in a few of these to get my point across.................................

...................

.........do you understand now?

[DVY]

Ahh the controversy...

My point is echoed across several other posters word. "Science" nowadays is a bunch of bullshit- pie charts, data, and A->B ->C schematics thats seem to point to a conclusion. Where are the controlled variables, double-blind studies, and meta-data?

I've been heard the same trope for years- the ice floes are melting! save the polar bears! seawater is rising!

Meanwhile, we have some idiot politicans jump on the cause and crusade it to the front-lines and all the soccer moms kow-tow to this propaganda. The soccer moms still are driving SUVs, turning up the AC, flying to Cabo for vacation, and using plenty of goods shipped from China. To boot, this politican is flying a private jet to these "climate change meetings". Hypocrisy at its finest!

As far as greenhouse gases go, methane is much worse than CO2 (25x). Its approximated that 25% of methane is released from farting livestock. A big % is from burning landfills and micro-organism metabolizing landfills.

[Samseau]

Humans are more important than any animal or plant. As long as the environment is good for humans, the rest barely matters other than for aesthetic reasons.

That said, global warming bad science.