[William Windsor]

presidentcarter, excuse me saying this but I don't think you went to Russia to save cash. So what else is going on? Please elaborate on how Moscow is not meeting your expectations, if that is the case.

[Chaos]

Interesting stuff guys. What Akula says confirms what I heard from a girl from Kazan yesterday.
She told me that most of the expats in Moscow are gone and a lot of hotels are now empty and you can get hotel rooms for a pretty sweet deal.

Damn, 67 rubles for a euro this week.
A friend from Moscow invited me in for the new years celebrations.

If I hadn't already booked a trip to the Philippines in January I would 100% head to Russia instead.

[CJ_W]

(10-25-2013 03:34 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

I'm not sure about FSU but in Sea and east Asia the top echelon women won't date English teachers. Some of them state it in their profiles or in person.

1) that is not true, and I can tell you've really never been anywhere in east Asia for any extended period of time.

2)You should know better in the realm of "What women say" this is basic game 101, the basic of the basic. Please refrain from raining on some else's parade with baseless rumors

[PeruLover12]

...

[Cattle Rustler]

(12-07-2014 01:56 AM)CJ_W Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 03:34 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

I'm not sure about FSU but in Sea and east Asia the top echelon women won't date English teachers. Some of them state it in their profiles or in person.

1) that is not true, and I can tell you've really never been anywhere in east Asia for any extended period of time.

2)You should know better in the realm of "What women say" this is basic game 101, the basic of the basic. Please refrain from raining on some else's parade with baseless rumors

Please refrain from using Julian Blanc-speak and telling me what to do.

Edit: Re-read the last sentence in the message you quoted me in.

[William Windsor]

(12-07-2014 07:23 AM)The Ligurian Wrote:  

Even with the devaluation Russia is still more expensive by far than Ukraine though. Friends there tell me that prices are going up so cheaper than before yes but not cheap. Add to that visa costs and I don't see the advantage of Russia over Ukraine.

I've never been to Russia but that makes sense. The ruble has been devalued something like 40% in the past year? The Ukrainain hryvnia has devalued about 50% in that same time, and before the economy crisis started Ukraine was already cheaper.

BTW, I found a money exchange in Kharkiv that gives me a better rate if I exchange 1000 USD or more in one go. They are giving an extra 6%. So it's worth asking if you can get a better rate for doing large transactions.

[Chaos]

(12-07-2014 07:23 AM)The Ligurian Wrote:  

(12-07-2014 01:19 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

Interesting stuff guys. What Akula says confirms what I heard from a girl from Kazan yesterday.
She told me that most of the expats in Moscow are gone and a lot of hotels are now empty and you can get hotel rooms for a pretty sweet deal.

Damn, 67 rubles for a euro this week.
A friend from Moscow invited me in for the new years celebrations.

If I hadn't already booked a trip to the Philippines in January I would 100% head to Russia instead.

Even with the devaluation Russia is still more expensive by far than Ukraine though. Friends there tell me that prices are going up so cheaper than before yes but not cheap. Add to that visa costs and I don't see the advantage of Russia over Ukraine.

So what?
I have absolutley zero interest of spending new year in Ukraine.

[PeruLover12]

...

[PeruLover12]

...

[Chaos]

^ Fair enough.
Russia is Russia and Ukraine is Ukraine.

[presidentcarter]

(12-07-2014 08:15 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

So what?
I have absolutley zero interest of spending new year in Ukraine.

I really don't want this to turn into another Russia vs. Ukraine thread unless you have some specific info on the teaching biz there and are suggesting I go.

(12-06-2014 06:43 AM)William Windsor Wrote:  

presidentcarter, excuse me saying this but I don't think you went to Russia to save cash. So what else is going on? Please elaborate on how Moscow is not meeting your expectations, if that is the case.

William, I'm happy you asked. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Moscow. I very much like it here overall. The only thing that's really lacking in my experience here is the food. I watch Bourdain's or Eddie Huang's shows and it makes me pine for cheap, delicious Asian street food. Moscow sucks in this regard.

Anyway, it basically boils down to this: when I came here, after leaving a finance career in the US, I kind of had a one foot in one foot out mentality and was thinking that I may spend a few years here then return to the states and get back into finance. Sometimes I do miss a stable paycheck, driving a nice car, wearing a nice watch, and seeing my family more often. But, even after a year, I really feel no strong desire to "go back". So, I have to consider longer term options which are viable. No, I didn't come here to save money, but with the insane devaluation, it makes even saving up for a week on the Black Sea or any excursions outside Russia in general much harder. Essentially if I stay here I am treading water and the worse the economy gets, the faster I begin to sink.

Inflation is beginning to strike here. My date last night had to go home because she was getting up early to go to IKEA today because on the 16th IKEA is raising all of it's prices in Russia. That's just one example. I expect to see pricing creeping up in restaurants, bars, my local shops very soon and at a faster pace than usual. Also, I don't see my employer or students raising my wage or prices for lessons due to the devaluation. Everyone is feeling the pinch.

This does create some job stability for expat teachers here though. There are less native speakers willing to come here and the demand is two sided - some companies and students will be less willing to pay for English lesson, while others will be more willing because they see it as the only "way out" of the country and will focus more on English.

So, the question of relocating encompasses a longer term plan of teaching and living abroad, in a stable way. Sure I could go to the Middle East and stack cash for a year or two and return here, but my dating life would be abysmal. Or I could alter my course entirely and go to Asia, where I may find much better long term opportunities (perhaps something entrepreneurial or a move back into something finance related while staying in Asia).

Russia just doesn't provide sound long term opportunities now that I'm starting to realize that I don't...ever...want to go back to the states. And this economic meltdown doesn't help matters.

I'm not saying I'm definitely leaving. I'll be here for at least another nine months. But, a move takes months of research, hence why I'm starting to brainstorm.

Also, as regards girl's opinion of English teachers here, it's mixed bag but mostly positive. The top girls here aren't going to be interested in any expat, whether you're an English teacher or business mogul. For one, they are usually the worst about speaking English. They just don't have a reason to learn. And two, they're perfectly happy being spoiled by their rich Russian suitors. However, many of the 6-8 girls here are quite curious and interested in a foreigner and some are very surprised and excited to know I'm a teacher because they're happy to not only have a nice foreigner to date but also someone to practice their English with. The English teaching profession is viewed as "hired help" only by the rich here and most people look at us with curiosity and interest, assuming you're not a fresh college graduate that's here for a gap year or something and you just go out drinking cheap beers with other teachers every weekend. The old adage that location doesn't fix game certainly applies. Those guys pull the 5-6s, even here. Also, it helps to let people know that I've come here intentionally and not just because I found a decent job here. Saying "I chose to come here, specifically here" always gets them excited.

[Chaos]

presidentcarter. Get in touch with LeightonBlackstock if you are thinking about making a move to Asia and teaching English.

He should be well informed about that.

[Constitution45]

I do have to disagree with you Prez. Speaking to business people connected with Russia, they will all tell you Russia has a future; Maybe give it five years or so. If Russia is able to win this economic war by diversifying their economy, they could realistically hold their own. If they fail to do this, and the sanctions continue to harm the country. Putin will most likely be squeezed out, replacing country with a moderate leader who can appease the West. This is no longer the 90s despite it seeming like its returning back to the bad old days.

The problem with Russia during the 90s, was that it lacked strong civic institutions, something which has improved a lot in the country. Meaning at the time any economic growth was usually plundered and sent off elsewhere. I think if you personally learn the language, stick it out for nine more months as you said you will. Try to develop a contact base of some kind, if it still is uncomfortable then move to Asia. Shanghai/Guangzhou/Beijing preferably if you want to still establish some connection with Russians.

Either way you have options which is a great situation to be in.

[BigDave]

I'm also living in Moscow still and the devaluation is making me question my future in this country. It's like getting a 40% pay cut just as a recession is beginning, meaning opportunities for career growth and raises will remain limited. Of course like Constitution45 says, in the long run the cycle will turn back and I'm sure Russia will recover. But in the long run we're all dead. It's definitely a good time to jump ship. I figure even with normal pay raises (10-15% a year) it will take me 4-5 years just to get back to where I was a year ago in dollar terms.

Anti-Americanism is definitely on the rise. I was at a restaurant just off Tverskaya recently and some thug/mafioso type guy at the next table over started asking me questions about politics. He eventually pulled a gun on me... well not on me, just pulled it out and put it on the table. I promptly left.

The women are still great, and strangely I think Moscow is now better than the provinces, because it's the middle class that is really getting screwed over, and they are mostly in Moscow. Lots of girls here I talk to are now thinking about moving abroad, which of course makes them more interested in foreign men.

I'm not jumping ship yet, but starting to formulate some back-up options in case things don't turn around here quickly. I figure by the summer or next fall it should be pretty clear whether we're in a short slump (like 2008) or this is something different entirely.

[Constitution45]

(12-07-2014 11:52 AM)BigDave Wrote:  

I'm also living in Moscow still and the devaluation is making me question my future in this country. It's like getting a 40% pay cut just as a recession is beginning, meaning opportunities for career growth and raises will remain limited. Of course like Constitution45 says, in the long run the cycle will turn back and I'm sure Russia will recover. But in the long run we're all dead. It's definitely a good time to jump ship. I figure even with normal pay raises (10-15% a year) it will take me 4-5 years just to get back to where I was a year ago in dollar terms.

Anti-Americanism is definitely on the rise. I was at a restaurant just off Tverskaya recently and some thug/mafioso type guy at the next table over started asking me questions about politics. He eventually pulled a gun on me... well not on me, just pulled it out and put it on the table. I promptly left.

The women are still great, and strangely I think Moscow is now better than the provinces, because it's the middle class that is really getting screwed over, and they are mostly in Moscow. Lots of girls here I talk to are now thinking about moving abroad, which of course makes them more interested in foreign men.

I'm not jumping ship yet, but starting to formulate some back-up options in case things don't turn around here quickly. I figure by the summer or next fall it should be pretty clear whether we're in a short slump (like 2008) or this is something different entirely.

Man that is crazy, I can see that possibly happening in somewhere like Tsaritsino but over in Tverskaya. Out of interest Dave, are you in an international job position or do you work as a teacher ?

[BigDave]

(12-07-2014 12:02 PM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

Out of interest Dave, are you in an international job position or do you work as a teacher ?

Neither, I'm in that weird in-between position, where I work for a local business and I'm paid in rubles. Not on an expat package, but not a teacher either. I speak Russian pretty fluently, so that helps, as nearly all of my colleagues are Russian.

I make an okay salary, it was certainly decent before the devaluation, but it's not even close to the finance/lawyer expats I know. I know some other expats with deep knowledge of Russia in positions similar to mine, but you're right most fall into the two camps of (1) teachers or (2) expats brought over by multinationals. The latter had the sweet salary+bennies packages, but they were also the first to be yanked out of here once things got bad. I think my job is stable for the time being, but I don't see much potential to move up or get raises much above the rate of inflation.

Part of my problem is that at this point I've invested over a decade in Russia (not living here, but involved in Russia business-wise, learning the language, etc.). So it's not so easy for me to just pack up and leave, I don't feel I have anywhere near the skills in another country and don't relish the idea of trying to integrate into a new culture again.

[presidentcarter]

(12-07-2014 11:52 AM)BigDave Wrote:  

Anti-Americanism is definitely on the rise. I was at a restaurant just off Tverskaya recently and some thug/mafioso type guy at the next table over started asking me questions about politics. He eventually pulled a gun on me... well not on me, just pulled it out and put it on the table. I promptly left.

I'm curious how this conversation went down. That's pretty shocking to me also. I've only had a few small situations of anti-Americanism. Once I started talking to a girl and a few minutes later her bf comes up and starts talking to me, acting somewhat friendly. He then asks me several times to go outside with him so that we can continue our conversation. After I politely refuse, he asks me about politics and I basically tell him that it's all just politics and that I love Russia and came here because it's such a great country, etc. After that he's buying me drinks and cheers-ing me. The other one was when I was invited back to this big bar/house thing that this guy owns. He was extremely friendly and accommodating but his friend kept talking shit about me to the other Russians there. I couldn't understand him obviously, but I know he kept calling me "yellow"...not sure why...I'm not Asian. I called him out a few times but he just kept running his mouth and didn't make any moves. I think he just wanted to seem like the cool tough guy in front of the others.

[BigDave]

(12-07-2014 01:00 PM)presidentcarter Wrote:  

I'm curious how this conversation went down.

Well it wasn't much of a conversation, basically went like this:

(Me talking on the phone in English)
Guy: Hey you, where are you from?
Me: I'm American.
Guy: Why is America trying to hurt Russia?
Me: Sorry I'm just eating dinner.
Guy: Do you think America can hurt Russia? (pulls pistol out and puts it on table next to him).
Me: (Mental calculation of how much meal costs, throw down that plus some extra, put on my coat and leave).

[TripleG]

(12-07-2014 11:52 AM)BigDave Wrote:  

I'm also living in Moscow still and the devaluation is making me question my future in this country. It's like getting a 40% pay cut just as a recession is beginning, meaning opportunities for career growth and raises will remain limited. Of course like Constitution45 says, in the long run the cycle will turn back and I'm sure Russia will recover. But in the long run we're all dead. It's definitely a good time to jump ship. I figure even with normal pay raises (10-15% a year) it will take me 4-5 years just to get back to where I was a year ago in dollar terms.

Anti-Americanism is definitely on the rise. I was at a restaurant just off Tverskaya recently and some thug/mafioso type guy at the next table over started asking me questions about politics. He eventually pulled a gun on me... well not on me, just pulled it out and put it on the table. I promptly left.

The women are still great, and strangely I think Moscow is now better than the provinces, because it's the middle class that is really getting screwed over, and they are mostly in Moscow. Lots of girls here I talk to are now thinking about moving abroad, which of course makes them more interested in foreign men.

I'm not jumping ship yet, but starting to formulate some back-up options in case things don't turn around here quickly. I figure by the summer or next fall it should be pretty clear whether we're in a short slump (like 2008) or this is something different entirely.

So, it seems that anti-foreigner sentiment is going up and for once the media might be right on its reporting. Seeing as how Putin's approval rating is still over 80% and he keeps taking the country on the path to another "cold war" I do not see this getting any better at least for another year.

While I am on the subject of Russia I figure I might as well ask what do you guys think of visiting Russia early next year for a month and traveling to 2nd tier cities (primarily on the Trans-Siberian route) like Yekaterinburg & Irkutsk? Would it be perfectly safe for a foreigner from USA or should I play off my European roots? (in case it matters I can pass for a local in some situations in terms of both looks and Russian language knowledge). Thanks.

[BigDave]

Well I don't mean to say that all Russians are anti-foreigner or anything. Most Russians I know are still just fine, even if I disagree with them politically they are very nice people and those disagreements don't ruin our relationship. It's similar to how Democrats and Republicans can do business together or whatever in the states, you just have to know there are some topics that are off limits if you want to stay friends.

But then there are the problem situations where things could turn ugly or get violent, and I've definitely seen more of those recently than in the past. But they are 99% avoidable if you have some situational awareness.

Quote:

While I am on the subject of Russia I figure I might as well ask what do you guys think of visiting Russia early next year for a month and traveling to 2nd tier cities (primarily on the Trans-Siberian route) like Yekaterinburg & Irkutsk?

I've spent many months in Russian provincial cities and never had any problems. The main thing is I can pass as Russian by my looks, and as long as I keep my mouth shut people have no way of knowing I'm a foreigner. It's harder in Moscow when you are walking around with friends speaking English. That said, having an English-speaking wingman is a HUGE boost in the provinces because girls will overhear you speaking English, whereas if you're by yourself they may not even believe that you're a foreigner if you address them in Russian with an accent.

[DaveR]

Nationalism is definitely on the rise and I consider that a positive. Russian society was leaning west in 2012-13, so in my mind this is simply a correction. I certainly don't mind seeing the foreign NGOs and journalists kicked out. The FSB recently flushed out European University here in St. Petersburg (full of foreigners, many on idiotic 'research grants' from the UK and US). I hear they will be auditing other universities and those claiming to be 'missionaries' in the new year.

About the women: I think social awkwardness due to the lack of integration is the main reason that 'expats' are rarely seen with high-class women in Russia. Western expats here tend to isolate themselves like the Chinese do everywhere. They often associate with each other and create enclaves of foreign culture inside the host country. Associating with others simply because they're not local is unhealthy in the long term and I believe that is what prevents many from integrating. Ultimately, they become disillusioned with perpetually being a foreigner and then decide to leave, either for their next 'project' location or to somewhere more like home.

My advice if you really like the culture and wish to stay long-term: don't speak English and don't associate with other foreigners. Those I know who have stayed here long-term and made something of it all had a view to citizenship (quite easy to obtain, by the way) and did as much as possible to integrate into Russian society. They established local businesses, married, bought apartments and dachas - as much as possible to set roots in the country.

On the other hand, keep in mind that after spending an extended period of time in Russia, you may find it difficult to associate with people in western countries. I have found it very difficult to connect anywhere other than Southern Italy where they also tend to be quite conservative. In other places I notice that people seem to be preoccupied with irrelevant issues and tend to be sliding towards more casual/modern/minimalist lifestyles every year. I don't get it; most Russians don't either, and Armenians even less so.

[Constitution45]

(12-07-2014 06:14 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

Nationalism is definitely on the rise and I consider that a positive. Russian society was leaning west in 2012-13, so in my mind this is simply a correction. I certainly don't mind seeing the foreign NGOs and journalists kicked out. The FSB recently flushed out European University here in St. Petersburg (full of foreigners, many on idiotic 'research grants' from the UK and US). I hear they will be auditing other universities and those claiming to be 'missionaries' in the new year.

About the women: I think social awkwardness due to the lack of integration is the main reason that 'expats' are rarely seen with high-class women in Russia. Western expats here tend to isolate themselves like the Chinese do everywhere. They often associate with each other and create enclaves of foreign culture inside the host country. Associating with others simply because they're not local is unhealthy in the long term and I believe that is what prevents many from integrating. Ultimately, they become disillusioned with perpetually being a foreigner and then decide to leave, either for their next 'project' location or to somewhere more like home.

My advice if you really like the culture and wish to stay long-term: don't speak English and don't associate with other foreigners. Those I know who have stayed here long-term and made something of it all had a view to citizenship (quite easy to obtain, by the way) and did as much as possible to integrate into Russian society. They established local businesses, married, bought apartments and dachas - as much as possible to set roots in the country.

On the other hand, keep in mind that after spending an extended period of time in Russia, you may find it difficult to associate with people in western countries. I have found it very difficult to connect anywhere other than Southern Italy where they also tend to be quite conservative. In other places I notice that people seem to be preoccupied with irrelevant issues and tend to be sliding towards more casual/modern/minimalist lifestyles every year. I don't get it; most Russians don't either, and Armenians even less so.

Do you think this will be applicable for post sanctioned Russia ?

Agreed on the cultural aspect of it, I can see it serving as a unifier rather than one which will cause civil unrest and decay. Besides a fragmented collapsed Russia would be all too dangerous for the international community.

I suppose Western cultural influences, such as feminism etc, may have a harder time taking root in Russia now with the rise in nationalism.

[DaveR]

(12-07-2014 06:34 PM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

(12-07-2014 06:14 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

My advice if you really like the culture and wish to stay long-term: don't speak English and don't associate with other foreigners. Those I know who have stayed here long-term and made something of it all had a view to citizenship (quite easy to obtain, by the way) and did as much as possible to integrate into Russian society. They established local businesses, married, bought apartments and dachas - as much as possible to set roots in the country.

Do you think this will be applicable for post sanctioned Russia ?

I think so. For the first 1-2 years it makes sense to learn from the observations of others who were previously in your situation. However, once you're established and can communicate effectively in Russia, being foreign shouldn't be the main feature of your existence in Russia. Basically, try to break out of the 'expat bubble' as soon as is practical because it will be a hindrance in the long term.

I don't see any sanctions changing the situation a terrible lot. As President Carter mentioned, there will be positives and negatives. Most multinationals will find it difficult to do business in Russia going forward, so there will be plenty of holes which can be filled by local companies.
The focus of the Duma at present is eliminating parasitic industries. For example, staff leasing has recently been banned in order to prevent transient workers who arrived in Russia, took overpriced contracts for a few weeks at a time at various state companies, and then left without performing any knowledge transfer. Starting next year that will be impractical and it's expected that companies like Manpower will close their Russian operations.

If you're just arriving to Russia now, you'll have missed the boom years of 2002-2008. On the other hand, you won't have any Russian assets to worry about. Established players have seen significant declines in values since their 2008 peak, but I think there will be opportunities to buy into the market once this purge is finished.

(12-07-2014 06:34 PM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

I suppose Western cultural influences, such as feminism etc, may have a harder time taking root in Russia now with the rise in nationalism.

Yes, the authorities are onto it. The last purge was in 2007 when the visa rules were significantly tightened. From that point it became very difficult to stay in Russia as a vagrant. Most of the unregistered political activists, unqualified English tutors, marriage tour organisers, and retired pedophiles left during that year.
This time the targets are university 'researchers' and phoney religious missions.

For Americans: I wouldn't count on the three-year visa option being viable for too much longer. The US isn't honouring their side of the agreement (mostly relates to official/diplomatic/service passport holders) and the immigration authorities are not too happy about the lack of data being obtained from American applicants.

[jimukr104]

Quote:

and the immigration authorities are not too happy about the lack of data being obtained from American applicants.

Yeah it isn't like they really need to police tourists like North Korea does.

[DaveR]

(12-07-2014 07:36 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote:

and the immigration authorities are not too happy about the lack of data being obtained from American applicants.

Yeah it isn't like they really need to police tourists like North Korea does.

The visa regime for Americans at the moment is very lax... basically, tourist and private visas are valid for six months per entry with no other conditions It's very easy to live and work(illegally) in Russia on that kind of visa. Other countries' citizens are limited to 50% of their time in Russia.

But the other side of the agreement was that Russians with official passports were supposed to be given free access to the US. There is debate at the moment as to whether the sanctions are a breach or not. If the ban list is further expanded, cancellation of the agreement is likely.