[Aliblahba]

(09-12-2013 10:24 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-11-2013 11:11 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Are you sure about that? When I applied to my last job I gave a contact of someone I worked for, and they called him up and they gave him a short interview about who I was.

If I listed my old job that I got fired from, even if I list that I quit, they could call them up and they would say they fired me and probably make shit up about me.

The company's lawyer would not not hearing that.

An employer CAN say what they want. But it's not worth the hassle. If they put you on blast, you could potentially sue them.

Well run companies do not do anything outside of confirming dates of employment.

Now let me break this down for you non-professional types. The more a company digs, the more by the book they are and you don't want to work for them. Almost every job I've had in the last decade has been though networking. When someone you know get a job and shines, they recommend you. HR then is just a technicality. I go straight to a manager for the "interview".

I've cut interviews short when some nobody HR drone asks me what integrity means. They haven't earned the right to ask an honorably discharged Marine that question.

[worldwidetraveler]

(09-12-2013 10:24 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

The company's lawyer would not not hearing that.

An employer CAN say what they want. But it's not worth the hassle. If they put you on blast, you could potentially sue them.

Well run companies do not do anything outside of confirming dates of employment.

Yep, that has been my experience as well.

[Samseau]

(09-12-2013 10:24 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-11-2013 11:11 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Are you sure about that? When I applied to my last job I gave a contact of someone I worked for, and they called him up and they gave him a short interview about who I was.

If I listed my old job that I got fired from, even if I list that I quit, they could call them up and they would say they fired me and probably make shit up about me.

The company's lawyer would not not hearing that.

An employer CAN say what they want. But it's not worth the hassle. If they put you on blast, you could potentially sue them.

Well run companies do not do anything outside of confirming dates of employment.

Would it be worth my time for suing them? What kind of a lawyer would I need?

[MikeCF]

(09-12-2013 01:20 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Would it be worth my time for suing them? What kind of a lawyer would I need?

It couldn't hurt to get a consult (free). You'd want an employment lawyer on the plaintiffs side.

[Brosemite]

(09-12-2013 10:51 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Almost every job I've had in the last decade has been though networking. When someone you know get a job and shines, they recommend you. HR then is just a technicality. I go straight to a manager for the "interview".

Had a series of great interviews with a company almost 2 years ago where I went straight to hiring and operation managers due to a great networked lead. All three of the guys I talked to spent a bit of time during the interview taking jabs at HR and their nonsense. Made me laugh a bit.

[Neo]

I'd be disappointed for a day, then I wouldn't care that much.

[Ensam]

(09-12-2013 01:20 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-12-2013 10:24 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-11-2013 11:11 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Are you sure about that? When I applied to my last job I gave a contact of someone I worked for, and they called him up and they gave him a short interview about who I was.

If I listed my old job that I got fired from, even if I list that I quit, they could call them up and they would say they fired me and probably make shit up about me.

The company's lawyer would not not hearing that.

An employer CAN say what they want. But it's not worth the hassle. If they put you on blast, you could potentially sue them.

Well run companies do not do anything outside of confirming dates of employment.

Would it be worth my time for suing them? What kind of a lawyer would I need?

Only worth suing if they lied. If they told the truth about you getting fired then you have no case. The reason why the lawyers don't want companies giving out information is there are murky situations where it's not clear if someone fired or quit so they'd rather just cover their asses. That said getting fired isn't as big of a black mark as you might think. Just have a good story. My favorites are, "they decided to go a different direction" or "creative differences". Also if your soon to be ex-employer asks you to sign anything then you have leverage. You can usually negotiate what they'll say if a referencer checker calls and a few weeks severance.

[Samseau]

(09-12-2013 05:18 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

(09-12-2013 01:20 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-12-2013 10:24 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-11-2013 11:11 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Are you sure about that? When I applied to my last job I gave a contact of someone I worked for, and they called him up and they gave him a short interview about who I was.

If I listed my old job that I got fired from, even if I list that I quit, they could call them up and they would say they fired me and probably make shit up about me.

The company's lawyer would not not hearing that.

An employer CAN say what they want. But it's not worth the hassle. If they put you on blast, you could potentially sue them.

Well run companies do not do anything outside of confirming dates of employment.

Would it be worth my time for suing them? What kind of a lawyer would I need?

Only worth suing if they lied. If they told the truth about you getting fired then you have no case. The reason why the lawyers don't want companies giving out information is there are murky situations where it's not clear if someone fired or quit so they'd rather just cover their asses. That said getting fired isn't as big of a black mark as you might think. Just have a good story. My favorites are, "they decided to go a different direction" or "creative differences". Also if your soon to be ex-employer asks you to sign anything then you have leverage. You can usually negotiate what they'll say if a referencer checker calls and a few weeks severance.

I didn't get shit. I just got a phone call telling me I was terminated. They also fabricated the reason why they fired me. I accidentally billed a client for two hours more than I was supposed to, because of their shitty online billing system that lags and was easy to make errors on, and they accused me of theft. I told them it was just an accident but they used it as a reason to let me go anyways. All pretext for other reasons it's not worth explaining here. Regardless they had no evidence because if I was stealing I could have gone to jail. No charges were pressed, nothing happened.

[Ensam]

If they told your prospective employer that you stole and you didn't they you might have a case. If they just said they fired you then you probably don't. In most situations companies can fire you for no reason or any reason other than race, religion, or gender.

Check out:
http://employeeatty.blogspot.com/

It's a pretty good site that covers a lot of common questions regarding termination.

[edit] Here's the post that covers defamation:
http://employeeatty.blogspot.com/2011/10...ed-me.html

[Cattle Rustler]

(09-11-2013 03:51 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Here is my best advice.

NEVER never never never never quit.

Make them fire you.

That way you'll be able to draw unemployment.

Again, never quit. You want that unemployment benefits and in many (all?) states, you cannot draw unemployment if you quit.

They will try to bait you into quitting. Do not take the bait.

Make them fire you.

I read this 3 years ago and remembered it to this day. Every time I shit got real and I wanted to throw the towel...I kept telling myself "don't quit, things will get better. If not, then they will fire you and you can get unemployment", so I refused to quit and succeeded ahead.

Then I actually got fired over office politics butI'm not worried about it that much. It feels nice not being stressed the fuck out over dumb BS.

Actually this is a good thing because I can now look for jobs full time instead of browsing whenever I got home or during my downtime. Something better is ahead.

Instead of waiting out for me to finish some procedures, the company did it on the spot without severance. So now the company will now lose ~250K in profit because I was the only person aware of the changes taking place. That's what they get for not throwing a severance package. I'm going to file UE just to piss off the same ppl.

[Easy_C]

Basically, get on the phone. Advantage of going to a good school is that SOMEBODY that you know in your class knows about job openings at any given time.

[Cattle Rustler]

(07-16-2016 12:31 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

Basically, get on the phone. Advantage of going to a good school is that SOMEBODY that you know in your class knows about job openings at any given time.

That also applies to your current and previous jobs.

If you do a good job, many people who move to other companies will vouch for you and help you get a job with them. This especially true for people who get a higher level job with another company and have the authority to outright hire you, bypassing the HR bullshit.

[Peregrine]

No severance? Have you considered suing for wrongful dismissal?

[Cattle Rustler]

(07-16-2016 01:06 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

No severance? Have you considered suing for wrongful dismissal?

Nothing at all my man, I was surprised when they didn't offer anything considering I was there nearly 3 years.

I have considered it, but don't know where to go or how to approach it. The two people who actually fucked up are still there.

My priority is to get a gig for now. A former coworker (I trained him) is willing to hire me right away but I'm trying to shy away from "support" companies in my industry and work at the rain makers (hospitals).

Edit: If they offered severance I would have informed them what was pending and needed to be finished. minimizing loses. Then again, they refused to let someone keep their 5K salary difference when he got transferred back to his original position (ROF) despite being experienced.....so he quit, and 4 guys were in his spot over the next year...all of them quit. They spent way more than 5K recruiting and hiring/training them for sure.

[Peregrine]

Never hurts to talk to an employment lawyer to see if you have a case. I'm shocked that you were there for three years and they offered zilch. Should be a month for every year you were there.

[eatthishomie]

Lots of good entrepreneurial opportunities in video production. Looking into making one of them happen now.

Fuck the corporate world.

[[email protected]]

Without revealing too much, what skills do you have?

Health professional

Where would you go to put those skills to use?

Anywhere with the highest return for time traded

Financially, how would you cope in the short term?

I always leave myself with 100K in cash in a bank as an emergency fund.

How would this affect your larger scale goals for yourself?

It's a set back in a way but it's also an opportunity to gain something more. For me, it'd open a chance for a higher paying job or I might move abroad for a couple of months to find a LTR/wife.

Would this in a way liberate you to push you to pursue your dream career.

There is no dream career. I have no illusions of making a living giving facials to hot women. I try to inch my way toward more capital and take calculated risks. You could say my dream career is having passive income that enables me to enjoy my remaining time left.

[chicane]

I'm in IT with decades of experience. I get at least ten emails a week from recruiters. Most of them are terrible matches, but I only need one job at a time. I keep my information on LinkedIn updated. I have resumes on Dice, Monster, and The Ladders. Other than that I network a lot. Go to meetups that are topical for your field, every month.

Work on professional development, whatever your profession is.

[Kaii]

(07-18-2016 11:45 AM)chicane Wrote:  

I'm in IT with decades of experience. I get at least ten emails a week from recruiters. Most of them are terrible matches, but I only need one job at a time. I keep my information on LinkedIn updated. I have resumes on Dice, Monster, and The Ladders. Other than that I network a lot. Go to meetups that are topical for your field, every month.

Work on professional development, whatever your profession is.

I'm in the same industry and do the same. I get tons of email and calls a day for my niche, so I don't really worry.

Actually, to be honest, my bit of DGAF attitude has actually helped my career, not hurt it. It doesn't hurt that most men in tech are manginas already. Easy to be on top with bar set so low

[SlickyBoy]

MikeCF is right - if you're in that situation where you want to quit, don't. Let them fire you as (at least in the USA) you will be worse off having left a job, even a shitty one, if you are in a situation where you need to collect unemployment benefits. Don't think it can't happen to you, plan as if you will need this backstop.

If you are absolutely positively certain you have another offer, before leaving your current gig you'd better have a confirmed start date. If they give you this in the form of an offer letter that does not have the word "contingent" anywhere in it, with an actual date, then it may be safe enough for you to make the jump. If the job falls through, the liability will fall on the new people hiring you - if they promised a job and you leave your old one (even if you hated it) only to pull the rug out, you could potentially sue for relying on their offer that you accepted. Even so it is difficult to win.

He's also correct that your past employer will rarely say anything more about a former employee than confirming dates hired, and in what capacity. Though prior employers could risk a lawsuit by saying too much, it probably wouldn't be for defamation so long as whatever they said was truthful. Regardless, most well run companies will have a firm policy about the limits of commenting on former employees.

Employers never hire you because they really want to, they do so because the need to and you happen to have something critical to their success for a given price. Just like you don't go to the store and buy expensive things you don't need or want for any reason, they don't make a habit of hiring people for the hell of it. Companies that do this usually do not last long, and/or they change tactics soon after realizing they've over-hired.

Put yourself in the drivers seat by having an in-demand skill set and, once hired, never get comfortable. Always keep an eye on the job market, technology, and the viability of whatever it is you've chosen to make your profession. You don't want to be the next taxi driver complaining about Uber taking over his livelihood.

[PhenomKing]

(07-18-2016 02:04 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

MikeCF is right - if you're in that situation where you want to quit, don't. Let them fire you as (at least in the USA) you will be worse off having left a job, even a shitty one, if you are in a situation where you need to collect unemployment benefits. Don't think it can't happen to you, plan as if you will need this backstop.

If you are absolutely positively certain you have another offer, before leaving your current gig you'd better have a confirmed start date. If they give you this in the form of an offer letter that does not have the word "contingent" anywhere in it, with an actual date, then it may be safe enough for you to make the jump. If the job falls through, the liability will fall on the new people hiring you - if they promised a job and you leave your old one (even if you hated it) only to pull the rug out, you could potentially sue for relying on their offer that you accepted. Even so it is difficult to win.

He's also correct that your past employer will rarely say anything more about a former employee than confirming dates hired, and in what capacity. Though prior employers could risk a lawsuit by saying too much, it probably wouldn't be for defamation so long as whatever they said was truthful. Regardless, most well run companies will have a firm policy about the limits of commenting on former employees.

Employers never hire you because they really want to, they do so because the need to and you happen to have something critical to their success for a given price. Just like you don't go to the store and buy expensive things you don't need or want for any reason, they don't make a habit of hiring people for the hell of it. Companies that do this usually do not last long, and/or they change tactics soon after realizing they've over-hired.

Put yourself in the drivers seat by having an in-demand skill set and, once hired, never get comfortable. Always keep an eye on the job market, technology, and the viability of whatever it is you've chosen to make your profession. You don't want to be the next taxi driver complaining about Uber taking over his livelihood.

So since I'm living in the U.S. I assume that firing should be the option and not quitting no matter the circumstances until i find a job.

[Cattle Rustler]

I'd file for unemployment. Nothing like getting 1k biweekly for not doing anything.

[Vaun]

File for unemployment. Negotiate for the highest severance package, call a lawyer if necessary for that.

Last resort; walk onto a construction site and ask for a job. I was a skilled plasterer, painter, laborer, up until age 25. I could do it again. I did it this weekend over Labor Day, and I loved it. I am considering doing it part time on the weekends now because I get so much satisfaction out of it. I could probably walk on and make over $20/hr. With a few years, make much higher and maybe go union.

[Frank Underwood]

I just saw a guy I work with get fired Monday. Made me think of this thread.

My long term plans are to build up my name enough that I can support myself via consulting, ideally remotely, but I'm not expecting to have built up sufficient contacts, reputation, etc. for another 5 years, maybe more. So for right now, if I got fired, I'd take the rest of the day off. Next day I'd apply for unemployment and start looking for new jobs. I've built up a decent network at this point so I'm pretty confident on my prospects. Add in that I live pretty cheaply and I'd be fine.

Regarding references and reputation, at least for those of us in the corporate world: if your company is anywhere near halfway competently run, they'll either have a no references policy or give a very bland positive reference. Anyone found to be lying about a former employee will probably get in deep shit. My understanding is this: if your old boss lies about you to a company that would be hired you for $75K a year, and you average 3 years at every company you've worked for, you have a six figure complaint against them. The chances of you winning might be low, but they're paying lawyers who charge much more than yours would. So anybody who lies about their old colleagues or subordinates has made themselves a financial risk to the company.

I have an ex boss who hates me and made up some ridiculous, bullshit lies about me, like being fired for assaulting a coworker. I called up his boss, told him the story. He told me the shitty boss was on very thin ice and that I should put him down as a manager from then on. My boss was tight with his boss, but I get the impression from our further conversations that this killed the boss' reputation with his boss. His lying about me told his boss, HR, and anyone else whose opinion he should've cared about that he thought screwing me out of one job was worth risking the company's reputation, finances, and his own reputation. It sounds scary but unless your boss is intimately connected with the CEO of a Fortune 100 company you probably don't have to worry.

How can you find out if your old boss or colleagues hate you enough to torpedo your chances of a new job? Get a friend to call up, say he's a hiring manager and is considering hiring you for X position, and ask a few questions (how do you take criticism or handle upset clients, stuff like that). Don't have a friend who can do this? There are companies that provide the service, but they're likely to be more expensive. Consider it a cost of not networking. I have never used one so I can't say anything on their quality.

[Travesty]

Start a whorehouse in Colombia.