[RussianSoul]

On many PUA forums, including here, it seems taboo to credit your lays to anything but game. God forbid you picked up a woman because you are good looking. This sentiment perplexes me. First of all, it doesn't stack up with my experiences and what I have seen. Women almost always choose the better looking guy or the richer guy. You can be charismatic as fuck, but if you are lacking both those two qualities, it is an uphill battle(though I have seen guys overcome such a deficit). Game for me, was simply getting the balls to approach women and then hold a conversation. I never bothered to learn anymore, because many game techniques like NLP seemed outlandish to me. I remember reading Neil Stauss's book and frankly bursting out in laughter during large parts of it. It was just absurd. He talks about 'game' like its some sort of magical voodoo power. Honestly, I think sexual attraction for men and women is pretty similar. Women, at least Western women, are every bit as artificial as men are. I know many women who would openly admit that. And if you think about it, it is entirely logical. Most professions that involve aesthetics are dominated by women. Interior designing, fashion, art work,etc..Women have a better eye for pretty things. Why wouldn't this carry over to sexual selection? A penny for your thoughts....

[soup]

Who here denies that looks, money, etc. can help you get laid?

[reaper23]

fresh back from the ban and trolling already

[Virtus]

Cant sell water in an oasis. So how do you create a self help category in a bookstore? You find thirsty, ugly, short, wrong skin color dudes and sell them the dream.. and it takes about 10 years when everyone tries all that and finds that, sure, using some conversational dynamics that their relatively ok looking aspie ass did not know before does help for some. But for a 5´4", fob indian giy working at Fry's Electronics.. not so much.. but the advice is solid out there now. Eat right, sleep, workout, read books, have fun experiences, dress well.. approach, approach, approach.. learn to dance, learn how logistics needs to be set up, bail on white knight debbie downer 'friends', approach some more, dont be afraid to touch, calibrate to the situation, approach, stop putting pussy on the pedestal.. well fuck. Given those thing an average guy is not average anymore

[worldwidetraveler]

(09-09-2013 10:52 AM)RussianSoul Wrote:  

it is an uphill battle(though I have seen guys overcome such a deficit).

First you say it is all about money and looks. Then you go on to say you have seen guys overcome "such deficit".

You don't see the contradiction?

[RussianSoul]

(09-09-2013 10:56 AM)soup Wrote:  

Who here denies that looks, money, etc. can help you get laid?

No one denies that it helps. But if you cite those two things without some sort of slick game context, you draw heat. I don't think that's right...


worldwidetraveller: No, I don't, I said it was an uphill battle not impossible. I have seen the occasional guy overcome -2 but its unusual.

[worldwidetraveler]

(09-09-2013 11:08 AM)RussianSoul Wrote:  

worldwidetravellerL No, I don't, I said it was an uphill battle not impossible. I have seen the occasional guy overcome -2 but its unusual.

Of course it is unusual, your average guy doesn't have game. Even if you have looks and money, if you don't know how to talk to women, how to make them feel a certain way, you won't be doing very well.

It sounds like you're a naturally social person unlike many guys who look to game. I am the same way but I also know that I can do better by applying some of the things talked about on this forum.

[RussianSoul]

(09-09-2013 11:15 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 11:08 AM)RussianSoul Wrote:  

worldwidetravellerL No, I don't, I said it was an uphill battle not impossible. I have seen the occasional guy overcome -2 but its unusual.

Of course it is unusual, your average guy doesn't have game. Even if you have looks and money, if you don't know how to talk to women, how to make them feel a certain way, you won't be doing very well.

It sounds like you're a naturally social person unlike many guys who look to game. I am the same way but I also know that I can do better by applying some of the things talked about on this forum.

True, the average guy is pretty clueless. The problem is I think 'game' is being sold as a magic pill that is THE factor in attracting women. I think its a little intellectually dishonest...

That said, this forum certainly advocates a more balanced approach. From cultural observations to style/fitness advice, its a goldmine of info. Its this type of knowledge that really helps guys not NLP or whatever is the latest pua nonsense...

[bodmon]

(09-09-2013 10:56 AM)soup Wrote:  

Who here denies that looks, money, etc. can help you get laid?

practically every commercial pick up guru that was a part of or arose out of the Mystery Method/The Game bubble did

[soup]

(09-09-2013 11:39 AM)bodmon Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 10:56 AM)soup Wrote:  

Who here denies that looks, money, etc. can help you get laid?

practically every commercial pick up guru that was a part of or arose out of the Mystery Method/The Game bubble did

No, who here at RVF is saying that?

[kinjutsu]

Game is as powerful as you want it to be.
Being able to turn a cold girl into a warm receptive girl in 20 minutes is awesome. Then having said girl give you road head as you drive to her place 3 hours later. Fucking Priceless.

The only questions you should be asking yourself is:
Am i happy with the level of women i'm having sex with, am i happy with how i look in the mirror and am i happy with the amount of money i am making?

If you answer no to any of them you need to step your game up.

[Teedub]

Shame he got banned. Should have lied low and just commented on threads here and there for a few weeks after his temp ban. His bodyweight exercise advice to me was excellent.

[Cattle Rustler]

(09-09-2013 03:03 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

Shame he got banned. Should have lied low and just commented on threads here and there for a few weeks after his temp ban. His bodyweight exercise advice to me was excellent.

Yeah, it's dumb how guys think they are Johnny Thundergunz and start threads or posts about controversial topics (religion,race, politics, game denialism).

As always, lurk, post contributions here and there, post a bit more, then after 3 months head into controversial topics.

[WanderingSoul]

I actually agree with most of what he said here. To me game is not about NLP (I actually don't really know what that is), dressing like a fool, running clown game, or any of the other stupid shit that turns you into a queer like Vince Kelvin or Mehow. I never read The Game, or the Mystery Method, or anything else. I've had about a third of Bang and that is all the game shit I've read.

For me game is about improving as a man. Fitness, style, money, confidence, etc. Do all of those things and actually approach attractive women when you see them and you will have success. Looks definitely matter, luckily most guys who are in decent shape and dress well will be above the large majority of guys out there. I'm just extra lucky that I was born the most handsome man on the RVF.

[mental]

Please don't ban him immediately next time. I wanna enjoy a little

[Tailgunner]

Now I don't know shit about sheeett...
I don't know who the Russki is...
Or "Johnny ThunderGuns" as coolly dubbed by some...
But what in his post was trolling? Seemed a legit ramble/question to me back here...
Elicited some great responses among the flames...
Don't tell me RVF is a place where a little dissent isn't tolerated?
If you've got the Trifecta...the world is your oyster with women (if that's what one wants)...
Take away the coin- I think definitely lowers one's LTR value. But not insurmountable with most women.
Take away the looks- lowers overall value.
But this is the Game section...the only one of three we can play around with so much...

[Cattle Rustler]

(09-10-2013 02:41 AM)Tailgunner Wrote:  

Now I don't know shit about sheeett...
I don't know who the Russki is...
Or "Johnny ThunderGuns" as coolly dubbed by some...
But what in his post was trolling? Seemed a legit ramble/question to me back here...
Elicited some great responses among the flames...
Don't tell me RVF is a place where a little dissent isn't tolerated?
If you've got the Trifecta...the world is your oyster with women (if that's what one wants)...
Take away the coin- I think definitely lowers one's LTR value. But not insurmountable with most women.
Take away the looks- lowers overall value.
But this is the Game section...the only one of three we can play around with so much...

There's no such thing as "dissent", one is free to write as long as one adds value and not acts like a dick (disrespectful, name calling, troll baiting).

To me, he came to a game forum and immediately started questioning game. Which is like going to bodybuilding and start a thread "is body building exaggerated?". A nice post in the intro thread, a few solid contributions, and some time and the guy would've been good to go.

An no, the power if game is not exaggerated. Game can mean getting an 8 when you're a 5 without cash or being a male model.

[WanderingSoul]

(09-10-2013 02:41 AM)Tailgunner Wrote:  

Now I don't know shit about sheeett...
I don't know who the Russki is...
Or "Johnny ThunderGuns" as coolly dubbed by some...
But what in his post was trolling? Seemed a legit ramble/question to me back here...
Elicited some great responses among the flames...
Don't tell me RVF is a place where a little dissent isn't tolerated?
If you've got the Trifecta...the world is your oyster with women (if that's what one wants)...
Take away the coin- I think definitely lowers one's LTR value. But not insurmountable with most women.
Take away the looks- lowers overall value.
But this is the Game section...the only one of three we can play around with so much...

He was recently banned for 7 days, and then came back and started this thread with some subtle trolling. He wouldn't have been banned just for this thread, it had to do with him just coming back from a 7 day ban and then creating this thread, probably with the intention to stir up a bit of shit.

[speakeasy]

Well, I read something once that I think is the most important insight I've encountered on this topic.

Studying game is a logical process. Attraction is an emotional process. Keep that in mind when you try and create an emotion in women using something you learned logically. Recognize the difference.

[Teedub]

To me the most important part is approaching and inner game. Especially in daygame, just the fact that 99% of men would never dream of going direct on a stranger shows immense confidence, which is a huge attraction switch.

[WestIndianArchie]

That hasn't been my experience.
In fact, I've never been in any kind of zero sum situation. No desert Island situations.

[Tailgunner]

Hmmm...having tight game can allow a male 5 to swoop a female 8?
My feeling is that those cases are relatively rare...game no doubt helps plenty...but honestly do you see THAT many busted dudes with top notch chicks?
Reminds me of another thread I read here about "being the right guy, in the right place,at the right time". I have a sneaking suspicion that may be the case more than we believe...and often pick up is more Don't Fuck Up than the ability to turn them on with game.
And the rub with breaking it down is that we are all coloured by our personal experiences...
Game is the lubricant that eases the struggle from aesthetic attraction to PIV?

[WanderingSoul]

(09-10-2013 05:58 PM)Tailgunner Wrote:  

Hmmm...having tight game can allow a male 5 to swoop a female 8?
My feeling is that those cases are relatively rare...game no doubt helps plenty...but honestly do you see THAT many busted dudes with top notch chicks?
Reminds me of another thread I read here about "being the right guy, in the right place,at the right time". I have a sneaking suspicion that may be the case more than we believe...and often pick up is more Don't Fuck Up than the ability to turn them on with game.
And the rub with breaking it down is that we are all coloured by our personal experiences...
Game is the lubricant that eases the struggle from aesthetic attraction to PIV?

It would be very hard, but if you are a 5, then grabbing some 6's and 7's is great work by you.

Also, a male 5 can grab a female 8, but it takes very good game as in some status, money, style, fitness, etc. Not eyeliner and some magic tricks.

[All or Nothing]

(09-10-2013 12:50 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

I never read The Game, or the Mystery Method, or anything else.

I bought both The Game and Mystery Method exactly three years ago. It was part of my plan to, "Stop being a loser and change my life!" as I went into my freshman year of college.

I was so clueless that I believed everything I read. I even went out and tried some of the stuff advocated in the Mystery Method. For example, I would try to AMOG guys on my floor. I also tried doing a magic trick on a cute girl on my floor as a "DHV" in an attempt to "flip an attraction switch" in her head.

I found both books hidden in my room a month ago. I took them, drove off and threw them into a big dumpster.

[Tailgunner]

RioNomad...
Yeah I get your point...but...
Wouldn't a man with "some...fitness,style,etc" (note-not status or money) be above a 5 on the attractiveness scale to chicks?
A 5 (as seen in the Would You Bang? thread) is a pretty marginal looking girl at best...many on that thread I definitely give a 2/10 WNB..So I'm picturing a male 5 as an out of shape,pretty busted dude with shitty dress sense and very little swag-Beta chode with neck beard perhaps?
I totally agree that having good game (as in confidence,getting/being fit, dress sense,etc) improves the odds of success greatly-but then a dude wouldn't be a 5 to the girls on the other side of the bar?
I just think game alone enabling a M5 to hook a F8 consistently is a bridge too far...