[PaybackTime]

While traveling I've met a couple Germans living off income support they collect in Germany while living in other cheaper destinations in Eastern or Southern Europe.

How is this even possible, don't welfare authorities force the unemployed to search for a job or enroll into training like in the UK or Denmark? Any Scandinavian/Germanic know how so many immigrants live off welfare without ever working?

700/800 euros/month is a lot of money in Bulgaria or the Balkans.

[BecomingMachine]

This section of the forum is usually reserved for lifestyle hacks, guides, or questions/discussion of the lifestyles of rooshvforum members.

This probably belongs in everything else.

[Vicious]

Sure you could game welfare systems just like any other system or scam.

But doing so is a sign of poor imagination, it's high risk/low reward. You are playing high stakes for a comparatively low amount of money.

Still there are a lot of people doing this from certain cultures, but that has more to do with the fact that they would rather put all their energy to not working rather than using the same creativity to make a comfortable living.

[PaybackTime]

I was not suggesting it's ethical or even productive in terms of ROI, it's just surprising to see German beach bums freeloading in Spain on the state's dime. I guess this is the reason why so many young Swedes are leaving for greener pastures in the UK or the US, it's just unsustainable in the long-term particularly with Europe's aging population. The situation seems pretty bleak for the future, not that the US is much better anyways, the whole West is going the same direction of more State involvement.

[PanzerTape]

Canada seems to be moving away from, or at least questioning, this trend.. We still have some provinces hemorrhaging money, but in theory you can actually find jobs here.

[w00t]

Im not an expert on this but I think its not really legal. I remember there was a huge scandal about some German guy living on Mallorca and receiving welfare checks.
AFAIK you have to go on regular job interviews too, in order to keep receiving free money.

And yeah the German social security is completely unsustainable due to the demographic shift. Right now they just keep raising taxes to keep it going.
Its really great to know that my hard earned tax Euros are spent financing assholes like that btw. Thats why Im leaving the country next year.

[BoiBoi]

I'm German and I can answer your question:

Every German is entitled to get Hartz4 which roughly amounts to 400€ + rent + health care. In order to get it, you must be unemployed, go the so called Job Center and apply for the benefits. You have to fill out some forms, have a talk with a job counselor and there you go, welcome at the rock bottom of German society. Usually, you have to talk monthly to your counselor and prove your efforts regarding getting a job.
Now, depending on your counselor and your relationship with him, he might hassle you or not. However, those guys have about 200 - 400 clients (in Berlin at least), so you can imagine how much work they can put into hassling you. If you want to game the system, its fairly easy.
Keep in mind, though, that freeloading and being a lazy, unemployed fuck is not very desirable/ attractive in German society (unless you live in Berlin...).

[PaybackTime]

Yeah I've met loads of hipsters in Berlin that have never worked a day in their lives and just spend their weekends raving at Tresor, Weekend or Watergate and picking up chicks on the side. It's not the worst lifestyle if you ask me, hours in the US are punishing and holiday entitlement is extremely modest. I had to quit my job to travel Europe this is how bad it is. A lot of people complain about the European welfare state but honestly work in the US is extremely draining, the whole free market model of society is not a raging success either unless you're an entrepreneur which I'm only starting to get into. Was just curious about how it worked in the Old World so thanks for your clear answer BoiBoi.

[BoiBoi]

Yeah, that lifestyle is appealing when you are young, but its just not sustainable. In the long run, most of those guys will end up as pathetic losers with nothing to show for.

[Vicious]

(09-04-2013 01:22 PM)PaybackTime Wrote:  

I was not suggesting it's ethical or even productive in terms of ROI, it's just surprising to see German beach bums freeloading in Spain on the state's dime. I guess this is the reason why so many young Swedes are leaving for greener pastures in the UK or the US, it's just unsustainable in the long-term particularly with Europe's aging population.

Huh? I'm assuming you mean Spaniards to go with the previous sentence.

[PaybackTime]

No brain drain is affecting Sweden too, it doesn't make the news like Spain/Greece/Portugal's but it's very real, particularly true of young graduates moving to Norway, look it up. http://sciblogs.co.nz/code-for-life/2012...6-nations/

[scandibro]

Yeah, this is how Europe will go bankrupt.

This is why many of us Europeans are labeled as 'right wingers' and even as 'racists' when leftists really want to bring out the big guns.

Just because we feel we're being made fools when we don't want immigrants from the middle east and elsewhere to come to our countries and leech of the working population which they do.

However, this is simply an unavoidable consequence of having a 'no demands asked' welfare state where everyone is entitled to benefits. People will simply take advantage of it and the fast ride to bankruptcy is reached once the non-working/government employee part of the population exceeds that of the population working in the private sector. Then they can simply vote themselves to more of the working population's money.

Leftist parties made some good things happen in the early part of 20th century such as workers rights and housing, but their role was essentially played out in the 1960s where everyone had a decent standard of living in Denmark and other European countries. That showed itself in voting numbers which went down markedly.

So what did the leftists do? They needed votes and when the local population wouldn't vote for you, then you simply import voters from abroad in the form of welfare refugees and foreign workers. Because of their short sightedness, our countries are now overrun by leeches from abroad and ethnic europeans.

It is a travesty and also part of the reason I find it so unsettling when I read quite a lot of people on here having 'liberal' viewpoints. I will excuse you because I suspect it is young age and perpaps being in college. Once you get out in the real world, then you will hopefully realize that the world is not how the leftists portray it.

[Tail Gunner]

(09-04-2013 01:59 PM)PaybackTime Wrote:  

A lot of people complain about the European welfare state but honestly work in the US is extremely draining, the whole free market model of society is not a raging success either unless you're an entrepreneur which I'm only starting to get into.

Capitalism, by definition, cannot be a "raging success" -- if, by success, you mean egalitarianism. Even in a neutral capitalistic system, the lazy, the irresponsible, the fools, and other assorted knuckleheads far outnumber the producers.

The advent of the social welfare system has made things even worse. That is why capital (including gold) is fleeing from West to East. Success is never easy and it goes only to those willing to go the extra mile -- in time and tears.

You can give fools and other assorted losers $10 million each and they will still find a way to foolishly lose it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/17-lotter...013-5?op=1

[PaybackTime]

Try having to pay 30k/year for your education while SIMULTANEOUSLY not having health insurance and see just how great Reaganomics have been. People whine about welfare in the US, it's only the lowest of the low that qualify for it, chicks most people here would never even touch. The US still has the lowest social GDP spending in the developed world, less than that and we're talking African level. So maybe Western European right wing countries like Latvia/Lithuania are your ideal but it ain't mine. Feminism definitely took root at the same moment the welfare state started getting bigger but it's not necessarily linked to it, Italy got one of the highest tax burden in the world and it's still pretty much the patriarchy there particularly in the South. If you fail in the US you fail hard, at least in Western Europe the social net prevents you from starving like 2 millions of homeless people do in the US, the real problem that led to the feminist apocalypse we're living in is individualism rather than state involvement.

So sure the Scandinavian model doesn't have a future but so doesn't the little guy in the US, only benefit-scroungers and millionnaires respectively have it good, there must be some sort of balance.

Anyways not insisting further since I'm not planning to sit on my booty cashing in welfare check but was nonetheless interesting to see how one could use that as side income in case.

[Tail Gunner]

(09-04-2013 08:50 PM)PaybackTime Wrote:  

Feminism definitely took root at the same moment the welfare state started getting bigger but it's not necessarily linked to it, Italy got one of the highest tax burden in the world and it's still pretty much the patriarchy there particularly in the South. If you fail in the US you fail hard, at least in Western Europe the social net prevents you from starving like 2 millions of homeless people do in the US, the real problem that led to the feminist apocalypse we're living in is individualism rather than state involvement.

Absolutely wrong. The welfare system in the U.S. was the direct result of feminism and woman's suffrage. The welfare system was created by Woodrow Wilson, FDR, JFK, and Lyndon Johnson. Not one of those Presidents (or Carter, Clinton, or Obama) would have been elected without the woman's vote. The United States was a completely different country before woman's suffrage. That is a historical fact. Men vote for freedom; women vote for security.

You fail hard in the U.S.? People on welfare have apartments, color TVs, microwave ovens, mobile phones, and often even cars. Have you ever seen a real poor person? Probably not, because you would need to go to India or Africa.

Most homeless people are homeless by desire. I know someone who worked at a homeless shelter. They would bring employers to the shelter, but no one wanted a job. They finally stopped inviting employers, because of lack of interest.

[Tail Gunner]

(09-04-2013 08:50 PM)PaybackTime Wrote:  

People whine about welfare in the US, it's only the lowest of the low that qualify for it, chicks most people here would never even touch.

Do we even live in the same country?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__cahZprhFE

[scandibro]

(09-04-2013 08:50 PM)PaybackTime Wrote:  

Anyways not insisting further since I'm not planning to sit on my booty cashing in welfare check but was nonetheless interesting to see how one could use that as side income in case.

I honestly have to say that I find your reasoning quite amoral. No, other people's money are not there so that you and others can use it is side income while you dilly dally around Europe.

You have no right at all to ask that other people should have their money taken from them by force so that you don't have to work as much/hard. And if you think people in the US work too much, you are free to work somewhere else in another country.

Your way of thinking leads only one place and that is tyrrany and then eventually poverty. Socialism does not work, it has been proven over and over. The Scandinavian countries have been getting poorer by the year since they implemented their welfare states. Denmark had lower tax rates than the US in the 50s, that is what many people forget. The wealth of the Scandi countries was never because of welfare states. The welfare states were only made possible because of a society that prided itself on hard work and a homogenous society. But socialism changed all that and now there are more people living of the dole than there are those who work. That WILL lead to banktruptcy.

It can't work and won't work. The sooner you accept that YOU are the one who must make your own fortune the better. Think outside the box, there are many ways to make a comfortable, low hour income.

I recommend you read these books for a start:

The $100 Startup
Rich Dad Poor Dad
4 Hour Workweek

While the above are overly simplistic, their points do hold true and will get you thinking in the right way.

Earning more can mean working less. Putting in hours for money is not the smart way. Making more with less, that is the mindset that everyone should have. Trust me, I was broke a couple of years ago and now I have a good income that, while with some risk, does not depend directly on how much I work. It IS possible.

[PaybackTime]

So you're crying about a dude that's sleeping outside and gaming chicks getting 200 bucks worth of food stamps? Not saying it's ethical but fuck demonizing the poor all the time while the rich pay less taxes than the middle-class. You're defending the interests of a ruling class that's using all of us, instead of hitting the 10% that own 1% of the country's wealth, we should vote to tax the 1% that own 40% of total wealth!

Maybe some poors in rural Arkansas can afford such luxuries but not those in the projects in New York, I've lived among recent immigrants for years, I've learned Spanish by befriending Dominicans that pushed rocks on my block.

15% of the US population is under-employed, you think 8% of the population is happily unemployed on purpose?

http://news.yahoo.com/one-four-u-kids-do...14580.html

[iknowexactly]

(09-04-2013 01:59 PM)PaybackTime Wrote:  

the whole free market model of society is not a raging success either unless you're an entrepreneur which I'm only starting to get into. Was just curious about how it worked in the Old World so thanks for your clear answer BoiBoi.

The idea of a free market is a hilarious fantasy propagated by those who have enough money to make sure it is anything but free.

Do you think your little corner store plays on a level, fair playing field with McDonalds when it comes to government regulations, benefit from agricultural subsidies, and the like?

The lobbyists write the bills. The government is just a branch of big business, designed to keep you from assassinating corporate bigwigs.

(I advocate adhering to all laws at all times and not thinking about anything except the heroic job-making efforts of the top 1% of our owners.)

[PaybackTime]

Thanks for the suggestions but don't worry for me bro I already earn 70k as a single, I don't need more money, I'm looking to work less, move to a cheaper place in the European periphery or Latin America and freelance for half that wage for half the hours, this is the game plan.

US right-wingers thinking they got it all figured it out and how heavenly the US are just make me scoff, I've been on both sides of the fence as the guy queuing up at the local kitchen soup and the guy that blows 1k on a bottle of Baccardi. Anyone can be homeless in the US particularly in the big metros, the US underclass are the most deformed, miserable, craziest people I've met in my life, the level of social distress in the inner city is not too far off from the misery I've witnessed from Romas living in camps in Bulgaria or shantytowns around Madrid. It's the American class system and the individualistic aspirational culture that crushes the poor and make the rest so insecure in their own status they develop pathological distrust and lash out at one another that's the real problem, not the ridiculously small social benefits.

[scandibro]

(09-04-2013 09:59 PM)PaybackTime Wrote:  

Thanks for the suggestions but don't worry for me bro I already earn 70k as a single, I don't need more money, I'm looking to work less, move to a cheaper place in the European periphery or Latin America and freelance for half that wage for half the hours, this is the game plan.

If that is the case, then I'd really recommend the books I linked above. They're all about doing exactly that.

(09-04-2013 09:59 PM)PaybackTime Wrote:  

US right-wingers thinking they got it all figured it out and how heavenly the US are just make me scoff, I've been on both sides of the fence as the guy queuing up at the local kitchen soup and the guy that blows 1k on a bottle of Baccardi. Anyone can be homeless in the US particularly in the big metros, the US underclass are the most deformed, miserable, craziest people I've met in my life, the level of social distress in the inner city is not too far off from the misery I've witnessed from Romas living in camps in Bulgaria or shantytowns around Madrid. It's the American class system and the individualistic aspirational culture that crushes the poor and make the rest so insecure in their own status they develop pathological distrust and lash out at one another that's the real problem, not the ridiculously small social benefits.

I don't have any real life experience with the american lower classes, but I can tell you that class systems are everywhere and if you think it is bad in the US then you haven't seen how bad it is in Asia, Former Sovjet, Africa or Latin America. The US is a very egalitarian place compared to those.

[paninaro]

There's a similar type of situation in the US, though whether it's "welfare" is up for debate since SS is partially funded by the beneficiary. Older Americans who collect Social Security move abroad to places like the Philippines. The amount you get from SS doesn't change based on where you live (I believe) and their $$ got a lot further in low-cost countries.

[Vicious]

Quote:

No brain drain is affecting Sweden too, it doesn't make the news like Spain/Greece/Portugal's but it's very real, particularly true of young graduates moving to Norway, look it up. http://sciblogs.co.nz/code-for-life/2012...6-nations/

Yeah that link shows a net positive for Sweden, Canada and a bunch of other Western countries. You were saying?

Edit: oh wait he's banned. Yeah no surprise.

[Cattle Rustler]

What's up with newbies? They come acting like ball busters just a few days in their membership. If they read RVF for some time they would know that the banhammer comes quick during first days.

Yeah, I know....I've been 3 months on here but at least I know my place. Most political/race threads consist of discussing something with someone who has their mind made up and will not bring anything good, someone eventually has a meltdown.

[Cattle Rustler]

edit - double post.