[rishboy77]

Last was really bad and I think should serve as as warning to all people coming to UA but especially visible minorities who stand out more other foreigners might be taken for locals. I was walking back alone from Mantra on the Main Street Khrest when 3 cops stop me for "smoking". They searched all my pockets and treated me badly and were refusing offers of me to pay the fine. I did not have passport or a copy of it which made it worse. I took them to my apt. a few minutes away to show them the passport but this were things get crazy. The cops insisted on seeing the passport of my wingman who was not even involved. He shows up with of Greek friend who speaks Russian, they show up with the 2 girls we had met at Mantra. Turns out 1 of the girls was only 16 !! The cops demanded the passport of everybody and were taking the younger girl away as her friend is going crazy and blaming us. A crowd developes some local guys get involved and I think paid off the cops to release the girl. The Greek guys says he heard some clearly racist comments from the cops as they seem hate foreigners as did not seem interested in taking money from us as we tried. That 16 year old looked much older and I left the club as she spoke no English and I was exhausted.
Going to alot more careful here now. My main point is though the cops had no right to demand that my wingman be called to show his papers.

[jimukr104]

Actually if I remember they can ask anyone for papers. What minority was he btw?
Kiev cops and Odessa cops have been known for fleecing foreigners. You should always carry a passport. Copy is better than nothing but legally I think you need the real thing.
That being said the cops there are mostly windbags. They rarely have an intention to makecan arrest unless supervisor is invOlved.
Unless budget has changed they actually have to pay for the paper work involved in making an arrest. Being firm and scary with them often works. They aren't hard asses like American cops lOl.

[Roosh]

I guess I'm not foreign-looking enough... not once in 6 months have I been stopped by a policeman in Ukraine.

[jimukr104]

^^^^yeah but province cities aren't use to foreigners so they aren't prepared to deal with them. In Odessa they might have thought you were Turkish mafia lol. I once told you Turks have power in Odessa.

[slubu]

I got stopped twice in my 5 weeks in Ukraine this summer. First time in Kiev on Kreshatik walking back from Vodka bar. Same thing, several of them all over me searching pockets etc. I told them I'm a lawyer for the government and they backed off.

Second time in Odessa in Arkadia. Both my buddy and I were wearing suits. Seems he just wanted to chat, he just asked us a few questions and let us go.

[JohnQPublic]

The first time I went to Odessa, the woman who rented me my apartment told me to carry a photocopy of my passport with me. When I asked if I didn't need the real passport, she said, no if you give them your passport they might take it, then you will have to pay to get it back. In fact, later I did hear a story about a Portuguese guy who had to pay 700euros to get back his passport when the police took it. On that first trip we were about 10 guys and during the course of the week every single person got stopped and had to pay if they didn't have ID (most of the guys with us were Scandinavian). Sometimes guys had to pay even if they did have id. The next two trips to Odessa, I didn't get stopped at all

In Kiev I got stopped 3 times in a week. The last time, I was drunk and pissed off about this stuff, so I dropped some names that even the Ukrainian police would know and two of the three backed off immediately, but the 3rd escalated, started searching me, pulled out my wallet, etc. I figured either he was angry at me for challenging him, or thought I must have money, so tried to find a reason to get more. Finally they couldn't find anything to charge me for, so they let me go. After that I was afraid they could plant drugs on me or something, so I didn't want to go out anymore and I called the Russian Lawyer semi-pro I met in Buddha Bar (I described that in the Kiev thread). She told me the police in Kiev look for foreigners and any girl who looks like she has too much money then try to stop them to get money. She said the area near the indpendence square up on the hill behind the macdonald's is where a lot of foreigners stay and there are always escorts going in the buildings there, so the police just prowl around that area and try to find people to shake down. She always refused to pay them when they stopped her and had even spent a night in jail.

[jimukr104]

Wow looks like the police became more corrupt. That's what tourism does I guess. Hopefully I still get police courtesy.

[rishboy77]

Thanks for all the input guys. I have been just making sure that I take a taxi right to the apartment rather then taking any chances of walking around at night again.
Got my first ONS from student club Fossge last night. She was not pretty but she was DTF. In fact she basically came on to me as wanted to come to our table were we had girls over and sealed the deal with 10 minutes as I did not want to waste time with her if she was not going to put out.

[paninaro]

(09-09-2013 02:06 AM)rishboy77 Wrote:  

Got my first ONS from student club Fossge last night. She was not pretty but she was DTF. In fact she basically came on to me as wanted to come to our table were we had girls over and sealed the deal with 10 minutes as I did not want to waste time with her if she was not going to put out.

So now you're part of the apparently rare ONS in Ukraine club

Do you think your chances were better because you were at a student club vs one of the flashy places like Dlux? My theory is that there are fewer tourists and expats at the student club, so you stick out more (in a good way).

[rishboy77]

Yes I think we having doing the best at Forsage as many girls but not all are open to meeting guys reguadless of age and getting drinks which they cannot afford.
Last night I had another ONS. This was a girl I had pipelined from the Internet and I had no idea how things would turn out. She seems to be the type that doesn't work but goes on vacations and look for sponsorship from foreign man. After dinner at the apartment as we were making out I clearly told her that she can leave that I will call a taxi but I will not pay her but she stayed the night.

I started doing some day game as well. I got a number of hot blonde that was working in the jewelry store but she could not meet until next week and I will be gone by then. I have found it is possible to approach the hotter girls during the daytime then at night especially since I know such little Russian.
Tonight I have my final date with a more conservative girl that I really like. Let's see what happens.

[William Windsor]

I visited Kiev a couple months ago. Somehow someone there was able to duplicate my bank card and they got my pin code. I must have used a rigged ATM or something. They waited two months to strike, and they took one day's worth of limit ($500). Thank god my bank called me when they noticed something suspicious. My bank said they would cover the loss.

Be careful about which ATM you use and watch your accounts.

[HD668B]

(09-06-2013 07:33 AM)Thailand_Veteran Wrote:  

Yes, Forsage is surrounded by all the student dorms. Maybe I should rent a second apartment there. One girl told me, she is paying just 100 USD/month.

Must be great to wake up and have all the hot students around.

All those students clubs have no quality. Wont find anything higher than 7.
Anyways the rich kids (read beautiful people) go to shevshenko university wich is directly in center.

Quote:

Decadence can be very hard to pull, been there twice and failed miserably. IMHO, it is not worth the high cover charge. Girls go there just to be seen and seem to know each other.

Most bitchy girls I ever seen there. Actually something pretty amazing happened to me there. I went to toilet and started chatting to this guy from Austria, cool young guy, running some biz. He invites me to his table, where is ukrainian gf is (wich he met in a resort). She welcomes me and seems friendly. Also 2 girlfriends of her at the table plus 1 ukrainian guy. Shake his hand, cool guy also. So he offers me a drink and we just chat. I dont really talk to the 2 other girls since I wasnt sure if they were free. Few moments later one of them ask me who I am, I say im a friend of austrian guy and then she starts talking with his gf and they ask me to leave. Literally telling me to get the fuck out of their table. Austrian guy, like a good westerner, just sat there and didnt do anything.

[rishboy77]

[quote] (09-11-2013 07:49 AM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

[quote='Thailand_Veteran' pid='528202' dateline='1378470813']
Yes, Forsage is surrounded by all the student dorms. Maybe I should rent a second apartment there. One girl told me, she is paying just 100 USD/month.

Must be great to wake up and have all the hot students around.[/quote]

All those students clubs have no quality. Wont find anything higher than 7.
Anyways the rich kids (read beautiful people) go to shevshenko university witch is directly in center.

What is your point ? If you want hotter girls, some guys don't fit all the requirements needed to get them like staying enough time, know enough Russian, having some company especially local contacts, etc

I'm sure that hot blonde who worked as clerk in a jewelry store wanted to meet up next week only used as a strategy to see if I'm really in the city for a extended period of time like I claimed.

[quote]Quote:

Austrian guy, like a good westerner, just sat there and didnt do anything.[/quote]

If this Austrian guy is paying for the table there (I was there last Friday, it's not cheap), he would seem to have a lot of cash. That would mean he should getting a those type hottie's easy if is he throwing around that kind of money.

Why he would up put with a friend of your GF throwing you out ? I would lay down the law, if I was paying for that table. Women there do not respect men who cannot be firm when needed.

[rishboy77]

Recovering after my 1 week trip to Kiev. I'm 42 in age average looking East Indian with a not more then a few words of Russian but I do intend to learn the language to improve my game. ONS's are indeed possible in Kiev since I was able to get 2 but it will never be easy. Like I said in the brief reports I filed while I was there my first girl as hardly a 6 in terms of looks but she was alone and I made sure she was DTF. Even after I got her back to apt. she claimed she wanted to sleep but I was not to be denied. In the end I could not keep up with her as she could bang all night. LOL

My second was a internet date that I had no idea or expectations to what was going to happen. It took over a hour of making out and foreplay to finally close the deal. At times I thought I was losing her she accused me of being another "sex tourist". I turned the tables on her told there was plenty of sex available in Kiev, that I didn't need her for that if that was all I wanted. I even offered to call her taxi LOL. She was hottest girl I ever had about a 8 in looks but not great in bed.
On the other of spectrum I could not even get a make out session with a conservative girl I really liked and I saw 3 different times. The girls are definitely a bit weary. For instance the number of the 25 year old blonde working in the jewelry store was the hottest girl I ever could pick up during the little day game I tried, but as T_V pointed too it probably was not a accident she claimed she could not meet for another week, to see if I was actually in town for longer then I claimed.
Thanks to the guys me and wingman met down there. I will come back when the weather is better and I know more Russian.

[Partizan]

(09-13-2013 03:08 PM)rishboy77 Wrote:  

Recovering after my 1 week trip to Kiev. I'm 42 in age average looking East Indian with a not more then a few words of Russian but I do intend to learn the language to improve my game. ONS's are indeed possible in Kiev since I was able to get 2 but it will never be easy. Like I said in the brief reports I filed while I was there my first girl as hardly a 6 in terms of looks but she was alone and I made sure she was DTF. Even after I got her back to apt. she claimed she wanted to sleep but I was not to be denied. In the end I could not keep up with her as she could bang all night. LOL

My second was a internet date that I had no idea or expectations to what was going to happen. It took over a hour of making out and foreplay to finally close the deal. At times I thought I was losing her she accused me of being another "sex tourist". I turned the tables on her told there was plenty of sex available in Kiev, that I didn't need her for that if that was all I wanted. I even offered to call her taxi LOL. She was hottest girl I ever had about a 8 in looks but not great in bed.
On the other of spectrum I could not even get a make out session with a conservative girl I really liked and I saw 3 different times. The girls are definitely a bit weary. For instance the number of the 25 year old blonde working in the jewelry store was the hottest girl I ever could pick up during the little day game I tried, but as T_V pointed too it probably was not a accident she claimed she could not meet for another week, to see if I was actually in town for longer then I claimed.
Thanks to the guys me and wingman met down there. I will come back when the weather is better and I know more Russian.

I'm sorry but your account is a bit far fetched to say the least. Yes ONS are indeed possible in Kiev ( I had one back in 2011 there) but are you telling me as a very average looking Indian dude with no Russian you were able to seal the deal with an 8 on the same evening.

[rishboy77]

[/quote]

I'm sorry but your account is a bit far fetched to say the least. Yes ONS are indeed possible in Kiev ( I had one back in 2011 there) but are you telling me as a very average looking Indian dude with no Russian you were able to seal the deal with an 8 on the same evening.
[/quote]

Yeah. That is exactly what happened.

She was a internet contact and I had no expectations to what was going to happen as I thought it was going to dinner and good bye but I was able to manage the bang despite resistance back at the apt.

From her profile I could not tell if she was a "working girl". I told clearly at the apt. I was not going to pay her.

Maybe she drank too much as she had a headache in the morning.

I never had a ONS previously in Kiev before this trip and this is was third time in city in less then a year.

ONS can happen, just have to be at the place at the time I guess.

[Partizan]

I'm sorry but your account is a bit far fetched to say the least. Yes ONS are indeed possible in Kiev ( I had one back in 2011 there) but are you telling me as a very average looking Indian dude with no Russian you were able to seal the deal with an 8 on the same evening.
[/quote]

Yeah. That is exactly what happened.

She was a internet contact and I had no expectations to what was going to happen as I thought it was going to dinner and good bye but I was able to manage the bang despite resistance back at the apt.

From her profile I could not tell if she was a "working girl". I told clearly at the apt. I was not going to pay her.

Maybe she drank too much as she had a headache in the morning.

I never had a ONS previously in Kiev before this trip and this is was third time in city in less then a year.

ONS can happen, just have to be at the place at the time I guess.
[/quote]

Yeah right. She sounds like she was definitely a working girl as you said.

There's no shame in admitting that you paid for it or used some podarki Kamaki style. At least be honest about it.

[rishboy77]

[/quote]
There's no shame in admitting that you paid for it or used some podarki Kamaki style. At least be honest about it.
[/quote]

P

I told I never paid her, but I did spend $150 on dinner at a fancy place.

Maybe that qualifies as "paid" for you, as opposed to spending $75 somewhere cheaper.

In morning I think she almost regretted her decision she just wanted to leave and and had a bad headache.

Call it a "shore", maybe she drank more normal as she said claimed was a light drinker, etc or maybe I got lucky... who knows.

Her English was good so language was not a issue.

Since you never believed Slubu and his 3some, your comments are not surprising.

How often do you do go Kiev ? Why won't you post some of your links to your success and reports there, especially any recent if you got it ?

I'm hardly claiming Kiev is a paradise ... I got turned down by enough girls especially the hotter ones but still loved every minute.

[Partizan]

There's no shame in admitting that you paid for it or used some podarki Kamaki style. At least be honest about it.
[/quote]

P

I told I never paid her, but I did spend $150 on dinner at a fancy place.

Maybe that qualifies as "paid" for you, as opposed to spending $75 somewhere cheaper.

In morning I think she almost regretted her decision she just wanted to leave and and had a bad headache.

Call it a "shore", maybe she drank more normal as she said claimed was a light drinker, etc or maybe I got lucky... who knows.

Her English was good so language was not a issue.

Since you never believed Slubu and his 3some, your comments are not surprising.

How often do you do go Kiev ? Why won't you post some of your links to your success and reports there, especially any recent if you got it ?

I'm hardly claiming Kiev is a paradise ... I got turned down by enough girls especially the hotter ones but still loved every minute.
[/quote]

The reason why I am sceptical is due to a number of factors, firstly your account of getting a ONS with a solid 8 Ukrainian with no Russian and your appearance, (40 something very average looking Indian dude). Your story is not believable to be frank. Second, your account and slubu's, jars completely with what I and others experience of being in the FSU and dating the women. Slubu's account of his threesome was made up fly on the wall nonsense. This place has been populated aplenty of bullshitters here in the past, Dash, Mixx, Deb etc. Its easy to spot them. Their stories are nonsense. Dash's accounts of Korea was also nonsense.

Lastly, I have been to Kiev twice in 2010 and 2011 for a total period of one month. I got a ONS in 2010 and on my last visit there, I sealed the deal with a 7 after a good bit of work. However that said. I wouldn't go back there again. Kiev is so played out at this stage that it has to be seen to be believed. On my last visit, I saw a mass brawl outside Arena between a load of Turks and Arabs over a couple of whores. That was my cue to leave and I left 4 days later. Any of the bars and clubs in the centre was full of these types. Nowadays my attention has turned to provincial Russia. Its a bigger challenge both in terms of logistics, language and the women. Indian blokes like you would be eaten alive The women there are more genuine and not the hard nosed materialistic sluts that one finds in the bars and clubs off Khreshatyk.

[rishboy77]

[/quote]
Your story is not believable to be frank. Second, your account and slubu's, jars completely with what I and others experience of being in the FSU and dating the women. Slubu's account of his threesome was made up fly....
Nowadays my attention has turned to provincial Russia. Its a bigger challenge both in terms of logistics, language and the women. Indian blokes like you would be eaten alive The women there are more genuine and not the hard nosed materialistic sluts that one finds in the bars and clubs off Khreshatyk.
[/quote]

Oh ye of little faith

Nothing wrong with some healthy debate and skepticism but your attitude seems like it would have been impossible for this to happen to me or Slubu - displays a arrogance and lack of understanding of sometimes what can happen.

In fact the reputation of Kiev and sex tourism does make it harder but to suggest every girl is "slut" in center is false. On purpose we avoided clubs with more known working girls.

If I was 10 years younger, could speak Russian and could go for weeks at a time with no worries, yes I might give the provincial towns a try.

I'm happy with the bright lights of the big city, where the possibilities are endless.
PS - Somebody tell them to stop over loading the soups with Dill )))

[coopers317]

(09-08-2013 08:38 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

I guess I'm not foreign-looking enough... not once in 6 months have I been stopped by a policeman in Ukraine.

Going on a week and haven't been stopped once...and I've been walking all over the place. Must say that I've heard a few stories from the locals, so I'm sure it happens.

[Brosemite]

Your story is not believable to be frank. Second, your account and slubu's, jars completely with what I and others experience of being in the FSU and dating the women. Slubu's account of his threesome was made up fly....
Nowadays my attention has turned to provincial Russia. Its a bigger challenge both in terms of logistics, language and the women. Indian blokes like you would be eaten alive The women there are more genuine and not the hard nosed materialistic sluts that one finds in the bars and clubs off Khreshatyk.
[/quote]

Oh ye of little faith

Nothing wrong with some healthy debate and skepticism but your attitude seems like it would have been impossible for this to happen to me or Slubu - displays a arrogance and lack of understanding of sometimes what can happen.

In fact the reputation of Kiev and sex tourism does make it harder but to suggest every girl is "slut" in center is false. On purpose we avoided clubs with more known working girls.

If I was 10 years younger, could speak Russian and could go for weeks at a time with no worries, yes I might give the provincial towns a try.

I'm happy with the bright lights of the big city, where the possibilities are endless.
PS - Somebody tell them to stop over loading the soups with Dill )))
[/quote]

I had trouble finding this thread until the forum search function started working again (thx mods!).

Anyways, one of my friends went on a double date with another couple consisting of an Indian guy (originally from India and not North American of Indian decent) and his fiancee from the Ukraine of 4-5 years sometime back. She was with him through thick and thin when they were "getting by" in NYC as they live a more comfortable life now here in my region North Texas.

And if Partizan read Bang Ukraine, Roosh also mentioned Indian guys there were much more well received than say Turks or Arabs locals were exposed to in the past. It's possible as Rishboy's reports confirm things I've heard or read before provided one plays their cards right.

[Courage Reborn]

Just touched down in Kiev. So far I have consumed immense quantities of not-so-cheap sushi off Khreshchik.

Met a 19 y/o pipelined chick my first hour off the plane. Average face, but bangin' body. She had a curfew as per her school, and had to go back before midnight. Will be seeing more of her this week I'm sure.

Street talent looks even hotter than in Wroclaw, albeit older and higher maintenance looking in both dress, and attitudes.

2nd pipeline girl will be showing up to my apartment on Kreshchik tomorrow afternoon.

Adventure awaits comrades!

[Thailand_Veteran]

I am back in Germany meanwhile and reflecting my time in Kiev:

My initial plan was to stay 1-2 months – finally I ended up to stay 90 days, the maximum period of time currently allowed for foreigners, without overstaying.I really enjoyed my stay and had a great experience. I was lucky to find some good wingmen, both locals and expats, so I could learn quickly, how things are working in Kiev. To discover all this on my own, would definately have taken much more time. Will I come back? YES, definately. There is something about the country and especially the girls that made me curious. I want to explore this more.

Could I stay longer or even live there? Definately NO. The food sucks, service mentality non-existant, infrastructure bad ( actually I wanted to travel to some provinces, but a 12 hrs bus ride on shitty roads for a few hundred kms is not my thing) the whole atmosphere is, as expected, quite harsh, corruption everywhere, many people somehow rude, typical scam attempts against foreigners, which in Asia/South America they at least do with a smile. In the beginning people seem to be unfriendly, which is not true though, you need a while to find this out – its a complete different mentality. However, beside girls, this country has not much to offer.

Language:

I took private classes 4-5 times a week to learn Russian. Although my progress was quite good, I can confirm that Russian is the most difficult language I have ever studied. If spending the same time to learn English/Spanisch/French/even Thai, one would be on a really good level. With Russian it is still basic, with many mistakes, especially due to the cases. People could always understand me , but often I could not understand the replies. However, I was able to order food, taxis on phone, to have a 2 hrs conversation with Non-English speaking girls in restaurants, read and reply text messages almost without translator. All girls in Kiev spoke Russian, while only some understood Ukrainian. Some girls from West Ukraine, although they spoke Russian, were unable to write properly. Basic Russian definately helps to meet girls, distinguish yourself from short term visitors, but to game girls 100% in Russian, probably 1-1,5 years study would be needed. I experienced that especially on 2nd/3rd dates in order to have a deeper conversation, I was way too limited.

Security:

I felt 100% safe with no incidents during the whole trip. After the football game UA-England, I was sitting on Kreschatik at a kiosk early morning with british guys drinking beer. I needed to take a piss at a tree, when just at that second Militia came around the corner. Some discussion with them in Russian- they laughed and said I should take my english friends and go home sleep – without a fine. When I saw Militia checking and bothering people they were mostly arabian looking.

Nightlife:

As mentioned earlier I am a nightlife guy. I like to go out 4-5 times a week, getting drunk and trying to take a girl home. I did not do excessive daygame as I usually sleep long and have to do some work in late afternoon/evening. The problem in Ukraine is that ONS are really uncommon, which I can 100% confirm. With a situation in your favor, drunkness of girl and some luck it can happen though. Although I went out a lot, I got just 3. The good thing is that in Kiev it is possible to go out every night. I think I have been to almost any important nightclub in Kiev at least once. However, as I am used to crazy nightlife in BKK, in the last weeks I got bored a bit. The problem is that on one side there are all the student clubs and on the other the high-end clubs, with not much in between ( only Indigo and Bionica maybe) The ratios in any club in Kiev are bad, best 50:50 usually 40:60 or even worse, with sausage fest later at night.

The quality the country has to offer is not displayed in the clubs either. Even in Dlux, which is considered the best ( as most expensive) club - I was often not impressed. On my last weekend we got a table there, as a buddy from Zurich came over. Girls 5s and 6s, few 7s and many hookers. Actually when ordering our bottles, staff even asked if we need bodyguard or prostitutes. The hottest girls 8s, 9s were brought in by some rich ukrainian guys hanging around the tables. My Zurich friend even said that quality is much better in the russian disco in my town in Germany or in the russian discos in Thailand. I agree with that 100%.

Here my suggestions for nightout:

Forsage ( student club/every day), Bionica/Indigo ( regular local crowd, no foreigners, weekend), Dlux/Skybar ( high end, tourists, prostitutes, rich locals,weekend) Vodkabar ( every day, going till 6am) Boom Boom Room ( after party place Sat night till Sunday late morning), Shooters ( ladies night Sun/Wed)

Girls:

I think it is common understanding on this forum that Kiev girls are just beautiful. However, I came with the expectation to meet well-educated, sophisticated, open-minded girls. I think that many ua girls cant really compete to Russian girls in this department: Many girls, usually those from provinces I found to be quite simple-minded, dumb, not knowing anything, thinking that Ukraine is the greatest country in the world. The most interesting conversations I usually had with girls 25+. The very young ones, 18-23 yrs, the Facebook generation, were often quite boring. You need to entertain them most of the time. But as mentioned, the best girls dont go to clubs, so daygame might lead to a better experience.
I spent hours drinking with ukainian guys discussing girls. Once you come to know them better, they were quite eager to share their knowledge. The guys are aware that the average foreigner has no idea how to game ukrainian women. It was interesting to learn their approach. For girls´ behaviour, flakiness etc. they have explanations, I havent ever thought about before. Adjusting my game accordingly, leaded to great results at the end.

As this was discussed in other threads - A note for those who plan to visit Ukraine to get a longterm gf or wife: I would strongly advise to stay for a few months at least to learn language and get a feeling for their mentality. It is so different from what we know from Western girls. I am not actively looking right now, but even after 3 months, I am still not sure if I could imagine to marry a ukrainian girl.

What can a short-term visitor expect?

The good thing is, when coming from Western Europe or America, almost any girl seems to be beautiful. You need a while to get used to the hotness in order to judge properly. If you dont aim to high and go for the bangable 5s and 6s by local standards, ( = 7s by western standards) it will be possible to have sex with a nice ukrainian girl. Those girls are more open to foreigners, as they have problems to find a quality local guy. But for the most beautiful girls, it will be much more difficult. And I am not talking about the 9s and 10s – dont even dream about it. The top models have ZERO interest to fuck a short-term visitor. It will be possible to date a 7 or 8, but still, getting sex is another question. Many girls have their schedules and sometimes having 3 dates will take 2 weeks time. So also time factor plays against you. For a good Ukraine experience I would suggest at least 1 month stay, a good reason why you are there, apartment in central location and maybe basic Russian skills. Within my 3 months I collected some 40 numbers, had 18 dates, and banged 10 different girls in 6.5-8 range. In my last month things even more improved - I went on dates with really super hot girls, but could not close the deal anymore due to time factor.

Is Ukraine overrated, overhyped?

Hmmm, I guess a bit, at least for short term visitors. Yes, the quality is great, maybe even the best in EE. But to bang quality on a short vacation is another question. Thanks to aggressive sex tourists and desperate wife hunters, this place seems to have changed definately. The times when every beautiful ukrainian girl wanted to meet foreigners, get married and leave the country, are for sure long over.

Average looking girls, English groupies and girls 25+ might still be impressed by foreign status, but the more beautiful a girl is, the more local options she has. The biggest change that happened over the past 5-8 years is that nowadays, at least in Kiev, for young quality girls, you have to compete with middle class, well-dressed local guys, with good job and car, who are not super rich, but having the advantage of knowing game, language, mentality and LIVING there. A longterm resident once put it like this: A decent local guy starts with a girl at stage zero, but nowadays a foreigner starts at minus 5. The most beautiful girls wont have sex with you because you are a foreigner, but although you are foreigner! When going out with ukrainian friends, feedback from girls was always much better than in a group with other foreigners. I feel this is the only way for a foreigner to get access to the best Ukraine has to offer.

Actually I met many foreigners, young, good looking guys, who couldnt score and left quite disappointed. Those guys are definately able to pull better quality in their home countries than on a short Ukraine vacation. If you are happy to look at and date beautiful girls, with possibly not getting sex, go to Kiev, you will for sure love the city. If you want to come and bang many hot girls on a 1-2 weeks vacation , probably other destinations, maybe Poland will be better. A friend, who recently visited, told me that quality is maybe a little lower, but it is easier than in Ukraine to bang a 7+.


I will now recharge my batteries until end of the year. On my list for next travel is a long stay in South America, but also Minsk, Vilnius, Poland and definately Ukraine, Kiev and the Black Sea Region. I am especially curious about the city Nikolaev, as all my friends in Kiev agreed that in terms of beauty, even Kiev girls cant compete. But please, dont book your flights yet due to high concentration of marriage agencies, it is more difficult to get laid than in Kiev.

[BigDave]

Hey all, I was wondering if anyone is looking to pair up for some night game? I have a good friend who just moved to Kiev. American, 30-ish, good-looking, easy to talk to, well-educated, and successful with women back in the states. He is going to be in Kiev for a year (has a legitimate job there) and just arrived. He speaks decent, but not fluent, Russian after studying Russian for a year. He is talking to me about game logistics in the FSU since I have more experience.

He's into weight lifting and has already found a gym if you are looking for a spotting partner.

I think getting a wingman (or wingmaning himself) would be a big boost for him since I know how intimidating it can be going out alone in a new city/culture/language. I'm hoping someone on here is in the same situation. PM me and I can send you details.