Hi Guys,

Just registered new to the forum and staying in Kiev already 1 month now. Was not sure to open a new thread or just reply to the existing ones, but as I have discovered few new places, which haven’t been discussed in forum so far, I decided to open a new one.

About me:

I am from Germany, in my early 30s however past 8 years I have lived in Bangkok with trips to almost every other SEA country. As I got a bit bored of Thailand and especially the girls and having some business opportunities in EE I decided it was time for a change. I had no EE experiences so far. Basic Russian skills, which are right now improving fast. Looks: 5’’9, 175lbs, athletic, light brown hair, blue eyes, dress: usually nice jeans, shirt, jacket, occasionally suited up, usually no problems to get good looking girls at home. Northern European look, definitely don’t stand out as foreigner here though. Many times people approach me and ask for the way and are surprised that I am not local or maybe at least Russian.
I have studied all the interesting threads in the forum incl. Bang Ukraine. Thanks to slubu and all the others. It gave a good impression, what can be expected in Ukraine.

Accommodation:

As others mentioned I have to confirm, how important it is to get an apartment in city centre. I got a nice one through kievapts.com. Found them very reliable. Prices start at around 70 USD, however when u expect u nice renovated and modern furnished flat it will be around 100-130 USD per day. I got one of those discounted monthly to 1900 USD incl. Internet, utilities and maid service for a 1 bedroom, with separate kitchen and living room directly on the south end of Kretschatik, where Arena city is, with balcony overlooking the street.
Was a bit shocked by the entrance of the building, however meanwhile I found out that this is quite normal in Ukraine. Pleasantly surprised when entering my flat though.

Logistics:

As I live in Kreschatik everything is in short walking distance. Walk to Maidan around 10min. Supermarket, Restaurants all nearby.
You should get yourself a local sim, which are sold everywhere on Kreschatik. Can confirm that girls use multiple phones with different providers to get cheap calls to all their friends. I got Kievstar with unlimited internet for 1 Griwna/day. Regarding chat, get Viber on your smartphone – many girls are using it here.
For those who like to work out at gym: They are absolutely expensive here. Opposite of my building is one at Premiere Palace hotel for 200 USD a month – will change to another one next week, but still it will be around 90 USD. Have heard outside centre they re bit less, but too lazy to travel there and still they won’t be that cheap either.
Metro system quite good and cheap ( 0.25 USD). However due to central location haven’t used it much yet. Also it closes around midnight – therefore to go to clubs u will need taxi anyway.
Taxi system is bit different here. Do not stop taxis on the street and avoid those, who are waiting at the street. They will charge you at least double/triple price and when u ask in English they really try to rip you off. Compared to European or US prices it still might not be much, when using them frequently it will sum up though. Also I don’t like to get ripped off by any amount and don’t want to support those guys. You need to call a taxi service, tell them where to pick u up and your destination; they will quote the price right on phone. Shorty after you get a text message on your phone, what time taxi will arrive incl. car model and number plate. Prices will be usually only around 4-5 USD, even for 15-20 min drive to outside centre. However operators seem to speak Russian only.

Nightclubs:

I am really a night owl and like to go out much and long with heavy drinking. Here the clubs I have been so far:

Shooters:
Been there few times, however don’t like the place much. Seems to be closed Monday and Tuesday. Bouncers real assholes refusing people frequently. However as I usually wear jacket never got problems there. Layout also not that ideal to meet girls, as place is quite small with bar in the middle and small dance floor. Entry 13 USD, 1 can of energy drink included. Ratio guys to girls 60:40. Mix of Ukrainians and foreigners. When ordering drink make sure you have small money ready. Bartenders are known to let u wait for change until u give up and go away.

Vodka Bar
This place is close to Maidan and therefore usually my last stop before going home. Place full of Turkish sex tourists and hookers. However still many normal girls go there in groups too. Easily to spot as they don’t even talk to the Turks and reject their approaches quite aggressive. This is one of the only places which is busy every night. Entry free for girls. For guys free from sun-tue and 6-10 USD from wed to sat.
As everywhere in Kiev be careful when ordering whiskey or vodka - tell them which one, otherwise they sell you the most expensive ones. Tip is expected. 1 USD usually helps to get your next round quickly. I found that some girls are usually quite bitchy in the club. It gets interesting when the place closes and they are all on parking lot. Really easy to chat them up and invite them for after party. Met a nice girl in the club and hit on her. First no English, on my Russian question for phone number she got no phone but a bf. She just refused to talk to any guy. Later after closing we ran into them and I said come on lets have some breakfast. To my surprise she said OK lets go. So suddenly she was single, spoke good English and gave me her number. Asking her bout that: I don’t talk to guys in vodka bar. Will date her soon.

Dlux and Dali Park
Those places are high end with entry fees around 30-40 USD. Dlux I didn’t like much. Many hookers and layout not really good to approach girls. Too busy on Saturdays. Difficult to distinguish hookers and normal girls. In short walking distance there is Dali Park. However it will be closed soon as its mostly open air or just a huge tent.
This is the only place in Kiev, where I saw much more girls than guys -as girls can go in for free. However many get face controlled there. Drinks expensive too, starting at around 12 USD. Those places have the best looking and best dressed girls in Kiev, in average mostly 7s but many models 8s and 9s as well.

Forsage, Sorry Babushka, Saxon
Those are the student discos outside of the centre and in my opinion the best places to meet normal girls. Very few foreigners go there. Mostly foreign students from the local universities. I like most Forsage, which is one of the biggest clubs in Kiev on 3 floors. They open every day. For 50-80 USD consumable you can get a table, free entry. Bottle vodka just 25 USD, Whiskey slightly more. Been there many times with wingman und split costs. For 40 USD each u can drink all night, invite many girls and have a great time. No need to worry about prostitutes. Girls mostly really nice 18-25 yrs old. Even local guys very friendly and curious to talk to foreigners.

Bottom line:
It´s very important to have a good wingman, otherwise you are labelled either sex tourist or wife hunter. Two decent looking foreign guys will do well in clubs, as girls usually are at least 2 or in groups. Basic Russian helps a lot, as many girls don’t or don’t want to speak English. If you expect to fly in for a week, no Russian skills, no wingman, no experience in approaching UA girls, I doubt you will have success to get an ONS.
Got to know a cool local dude we been out with many times. Guy with car and apparently some money. He was quite happy to give us insights in how he called it “Our Russian system”. This also eliminates the sex-tourist stigma and gives some social proof. Forget your western game which works well at home or maybe in Asia too. I think here it´s useless. You have to be gentleman, but you need to lead the girls. Do the talking, don’t ask too many questions. I think as a foreigner, who speaks decent Russian to keep a conversation in a noisy nightclub for quite some time, being able to approach like a local dude, it will be paradise here. Cultural understanding and language is the key, looks and more important dress will do the rest. I feel being foreigner is not really an advantage, maybe sometimes even a disadvantage. That girls prefer a foreigner over an Ukrainian guy is definitely not always true. UA guys have the bonus that they know the mentality and are able to entertain them in their language. Our Ukrainian friend was approaching like crazy, he grabbed any girl and his results in terms of feedback and phone numbers were awesome. And he was average looking, dressing normal and definitely not throwing money Actually I thought my game in Thailand was already quite tight and direct, but it is nothing to what I saw there. If you act like this in a German club, security will kick u out quite fast.
ONS are absolutely not common here even for local dudes, much less than in Western Europe and certainly not like in Asia. I would rate probability of ONS in Western Europe in clubs around 20-30%, compared to Thailand maybe 60-70% depending on quality standards. Here I would say it is less than 10%. Although ONS happen occasionally, it’s just not the culture here, for foreigners and for Ukrainian guys as well. Therefore nightclub is basically chat them up, invite for a drink, get her number and proceed from that with dating the next days. Collected many numbers during the night outs and will try to convert them into dates and hopefully more the next days

Day game:

I think day game will lead to best results in Kiev as bitch shields are much higher in clubs. You can easily stop the girls on the street and chat them up. Best time late afternoon, when they come from work and walk around Kreschatik or in the malls nearby. However haven’t tried it that much yet, as I will stay here for a couple months and feel no time pressure. Also as I usually party until morning, sleep all day, do some work and get ready for night-out again. As I feel bit exhausted from party the past weeks will focus on day game more from now.

Girls:

They are just hot. The average Ukrainian girl compared to the average western girl is at least 1-1.5 points higher. But it’s definitely not that every 2 min you see a model type 8 or 9 passing by. However, my friends told me that due to living in SEA for years banging really hot girls regularly my standards are maybe a bit high. When coming from Europe to UA you will be blown away for sure, especially in summer.
Generally I get good feedback from girls here. As mentioned dress definitely helps. Then you have to pass the shit test. The second question is always how long you are here for. They are interested in long term relationships. When you say that you are just tourist I don’t think they will be interested. When saying you stay longer they want a proof.

Experiences so far:

All my girls were from nightclubs:

First week Forsage girl 21 ( 6.5):
She ran into me late in the club, as her friends just left and she was alone. We had some drinks, shared numbers, and brought her home with taxi. Next day met her, we been to club, took her home with sex.

Vodka bar girl 25 ( 7):
Student girl on a night out with friend. Chatted her up in English, which she said she can’t understand ( in fact she can) Switched to Russian and she smiled and was happy to talk. Got her number. She refused to date for 1 week. Finally we met at Arena for a drink. She told me she did not believe that I was living in Kiev and that’s why she just let me wait, as most foreigners don’t stay longer then a week – smart girl!!
Dated her 3 times within 5 days. 3 date rule confirmed! I feel after sex the girls attitudes really change dramatically. Text every day and want to meet. Occasionally she is sleeping at my place now. However, although she s really nice, I need to reduce this a bit, as she already blocked other potential ONS candidates and i don’t want to end up with a gf here right now.

Forsage #2 22 ( 6.5):
Also late night just before closing, approached her on dance floor with her friend. Kissing after few minutes. However as my buddy was busy with other girls her friend got pissed. We went out together and the girls argued on the parking lot. I told my girl we go to vodka bar for a drink. Her friend refused and wanted to go home. Finally I was surprised as she left the friend and came with me. Thought it was a good sign. We ended up in my bad, kissing, touching but with NO SEX. She can’t have sex on the first night. Ok I heard that many times in Thailand too and I think I developed good skills to make it happen. With her nothing worked. From that day I knew it is a totally different playground here.

Vodka Bar After party disaster:
After vodka bar been at Coffee time Kreschatik to eat borsch with 2 Russian guys from Moscow and 4 girls. Russians guys needed to leave, as they had to change apartment early, but one told me that 1 girl was into me and I should stick to her.
Finally I took all 4 of them to my place for an after party. We partied until 11am morning, was quite fun and we all very drunk. My girl got bit pissed as I was flirting and touching with her friends too. Suddenly her friend dragged me in the bedroom, kissed me and took off clothes. After 1 minute she went back and explained to her friend. At that point I knew what was going on. She wanted to find out if I just wanted to get a bang or was also into her. DAMN!!! But I was too drunk to get it. Lesson learned.

Vodka Bar girl 27 (8):
Saw this girl already couple days before already, blond, superhot and always dancing wild on stage surrounded by Turks, however refusing all their approaches.
It was impossible to talk to her in club. A real party girl you like to fuck, but having her as a gf would give you a permanent headache I guess. After place closed Ukrainian friend and me saw her on parking lot waiting for taxi and chatted her up. She is living in Kazakhstan and just for holiday back in Kiev. Her attitude completely changed- as she heard I lived in Thailand she was curious cause she will go there for holiday soon. Finally we went with car and her other friend back to my place. On the way police stopped us and arrested my friend for drunk driving. He told me no problem, just take the girls back to your place and enjoy as it will take him some time to sort the thing out at police station. Back in my room hot girl wanted to sleep and I offered my bedroom, while her friend rested in living room. In bed directly kissing and bang. But I have to admit to bang this quality constantly better language skills, cultural knowledge etc. will be needed for sure.

Conclusion so far:

Still after 1 month I feel I almost don’t know anything about those girls. In Thailand it took me a year to understand the girls. I feel here it even might take bit longer. However with language and few local friends things should improve very fast. The place definitely has lots of potential.[/align]

Great report. I do agree with you on Vodka Bar, the girls there were very defensive. More than a few times we had girls refuse to talk to us only to come back later and be open. Odd.

Awesome report. I leave tonight for Kiev.

Quote: (09-03-2013 06:36 AM)Thailand_Veteran Wrote:  

Forsage, Sorry Babushka, Saxon
Those are the student discos outside of the centre and in my opinion the best places to meet normal girls. Very few foreigners go there. Mostly foreign students from the local universities.

Great report. When I was in Kiev, we went to Forsage every night, even leaving DLux and other places to go there. There were no tourists at Forsage at all, and plenty of friendly students. If I remember correctly, Forsage (or might be mixing it up with Saxon) was right next to a bunch of student dormitories so even outside the club were groups of people hanging out and easy to approach.

I'm headed to Odessa later this month. Anyone know if there are the same type of clubs there? I didn't see any mention of university clubs in any datasheets I've seen so far, but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't exist.

How are you financing your travels...do you have an Internet income,or teaching English or something els?

Quote: (09-04-2013 11:13 AM)Pilgrim37 Wrote:  

How are you financing your travels...do you have an Internet income,or teaching English or something els?

I can work mostly through the internet. But usually I try to be there, where the business is. This was for many years in Asia. However as plans arised to expand to FSU, I was more than happy to move.

Thailand_Veteran, you seem to be doing very well in Kiev! In addition to the clubs you mentioned I recommend you check out Club Avalon. It's a little away from the city centre although within walking distance from Olympisky Stadium. I had a great time there and the ratio was insane, i.e., at least 70% girls and seemed like they were all eye-fucking me and my friend as perhaps we were the best dressed guys in the place (thousand+ dollar suits with pocket squares to boot).

By the way, I never made it to Forsage but I was under the assumption that those clubs would cater strictly to the very young student crowd. Do you think an old cat like myself (I am 34 years but unfortunately look older) could do ok there?

Below comment by the way is golden:

It´s very important to have a good wingman, otherwise you are labelled either sex tourist or wife hunter. Two decent looking foreign guys will do well in clubs, as girls usually are at least 2 or in groups. Basic Russian helps a lot, as many girls don’t or don’t want to speak English. If you expect to fly in for a week, no Russian skills, no wingman, no experience in approaching UA girls, I doubt you will have success to get an ONS.

BCZ your age is fine. They won't care.

I was at Sorry Babushka last night with a younger student crowd and I wound definitely say age matters as I'm 42, maybe not so much if early 30s. I was with 2 other guys, 1 who know Russisn pretty well and we all stuck out despite getting a table for $700. There were not a lot single women there and Kiev was pretty dead for a Wednesday nigh. Also hit Coyote Ugly was not busy. Was denied entry at Shooters with the same race issue. Also went Caribbean Club but was allowed to see it was not busy as we did not want to pay $150 to get in.
Got 2 dates lined up today, let's see how it goes.

Awesome report. I have been to Kiev just one weekend and ended up in Forsage by coincindence. Best night out. Going back at the beginning of November.

Quote: (09-05-2013 12:19 AM)rishboy77 Wrote:  

I was at Sorry Babushka last night with a younger student crowd and I wound definitely say age matters as I'm 42, maybe not so much if early 30s. I was with 2 other guys, 1 who know Russisn pretty well and we all stuck out despite getting a table for $700. There were not a lot single women there and Kiev was pretty dead for a Wednesday nigh. Also hit Coyote Ugly was not busy. Was denied entry at Shooters with the same race issue. Also went Caribbean Club but was allowed to see it was not busy as we did not want to pay $150 to get in.
Got 2 dates lined up today, let's see how it goes.

Rishboy, how about checking out Club Avalon since it seems you already make it a point to go away from the city center (Sorry Babushka). I would love a quick field report on it just to make sure that I was not dreaming when I went there

Quote: (09-05-2013 12:19 AM)rishboy77 Wrote:  

There were not a lot single women there and Kiev was pretty dead for a Wednesday night.

Are universities back in session there? I'm not familiar with how the schedule is there, but could it be that the uni students haven't really arrived yet? I know in the UK they don't usually start the semester until end of September or early October.

Yes I believe school is back. Went to Forsage last night and split a bottle with 2 other guys. Very inexpensive only $300. My friend picked up a very cute 20 year old girl and she was hanging out with him all night, but overall there was a 50/50 ratio of guys to girls. Today is crappy weather here, it's suppose to be raining all day.

Rishboy, you mean grivnas, and not us$, right ?

Da
Not US dollars.

@BCZ
Regarding Avalon: due to some local dudes i know, it is just a big whorehouse, girls slightly cheaper as in Dlux though. Avalon is the name of the complex - the disco should be Ajour Club.

Also I think it is in the centre close to my place at Shevchenko Blv. - Olympiski Station is actually bit far away. Did u maybe mixup the places?

@ rishboy
Seems I should arrive early today, before you guys snatch the best girls away.

The funny part last night was that her 3 friends kept trying to cock block and get her away but I guess she liked my friend enough so they gave up and joined in at the end. He dropped them in a cab as they dorm is only a few minutes away. He is suppose to meet her today I think

Yes, Forsage is surrounded by all the student dorms. Maybe I should rent a second apartment there. One girl told me, she is paying just 100 USD/month.

Must be great to wake up and have all the hot students around.

Forsage is the one club I never made it to, I like hearing how great it is.

Rishboy have you or your buddies tried banging the girls the same night? For example the one last night?

I have not tried for a ONS unless I get a really good vibe from a girl. For instance even the friends of the girl from last night were not really into me as much as I tried and the other guy already brought a girl with him. My friend did not try for a ONS stand as again she did not seem that type and he did not want to screw up future meetings. She was really cute although only 20 she looked like 17-18 in age.

Rish, I would go for the ONS (assuming there is a vibe of course, as you have mentioned you do that but not your buddies apparently). From my experience it does not hurt you, and may even garner some more respect from the girl. I tried with every girl I met, even the ones that seemed very sweet or "not that type". And many weren't that type. But I always invited them back for tea, more drinks, or breakfast depending on the situation.

Some examples:

- Met a girl at skybar, spent several hours with her there. Kept telling her she should come for champagne breakfast and she refused. Took me 5 dates to bang her, and we ended up going to Odessa together. She always made fun of the fact that I was trying to bang her the first night I met her jokingly quoting "champagne breakfast." So even though she knew I was trying to bang her we still had a mini-relationship

- Met a girl at Shooters, spent some time and made out with her there. Tried to get her back for drinks, she said no. Met her out another time, she came back with her friends and slept over but no sex. Third time was the charm. I ended seeing her for a while, and she was a virgin (confirmed).

Just two examples, but what I'm trying to demonstrate is that don't think they are not that type or they won't go home with you, or that it will hurt you. ESPECIALLY if you are meeting them at clubs.

Last night we decided to try something different and hit up the high end Decadance. When we get there they were turning away ton's of people claming private party or reservation needed. I told security guard with a simile that I want to go in. He took care of and got us in and we only paid $500 UAH for the both of to get in. The quality of the girls was outstanding 8's and some 9's even but they all were with guys at the tables. We were the only foreigners inside as far as I could tell. Music was amazing. Tried talking to a few girls but they were not biting.

Tonight we will hit Mantra then try some other places if is not good. Since Dali Park is now closed for the Summer and Skybar still closed for renovations the higher end clubs seem to busy as Decadance was packed last night despite the rain but unlike high end clubs in Vegas which tend to keep a higher women ratio last there were to many guys. That is general story I have seen in the clubs compared to when I was here back in Feb. for some unknown reason.
T. V it was great meeting you, let's see if we make back to Forsage tonight)))

Decadence can be very hard to pull, been there twice and failed miserably. IMHO, it is not worth the high cover charge. Girls go there just to be seen and seem to know each other.A better bet for you is to go to Arena bar downstairs, no cover and very easy to isolate the girls. My "move" there is just to saddle up next to them at the bar and ask what they are drinking. Funnily enough, it also seems to attract some expats, sex tourists, and business travelers so if you see local girls there its a good chance that they are into foreigners.

The bar was empty. We tried that. Rain killed a lot of traffic as they no crowd hanging around as we came out at 3:30-4am.