[Hencredible Casanova]

Quote:

Aniruddh Chaturvedi came from Mumbai to Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Penn., where he is majoring in computer science. This past summer he interned at a tech company in Silicon Valley.

During two years in the U.S., Chaturvedi has been surprised by various aspects of society, as he explained last year in a post on Quora.

Chaturvedi offered his latest thoughts on America in an email to Business Insider.

The most surprising things about America:

Nobody talks about grades here.

Everyone is highly private about their accomplishments and failures. Someone's performance in any field is their performance alone. This is different compared to India where people flaunt their riches and share their accomplishments with everybody else.

The retail experience is nowhere near as fun/nice as it is in India. Because labor is cheap in India, there is always someone who will act as a "personal shopper" to assist you with holding your clothes, giving suggestions, etc. In America, on the other hand, even if you go to a Nordstrom or Bloomingdales, there is almost nobody to help you out while you're shopping. Shopping in America is more of a commodity / chore than it is a pleasurable activity.

This may be biased/wrong because I was an intern, but at least in the tech world, nobody wants to put you under the bus for something that you didn't do correctly or didn't understand how to do. People will sit with you patiently till you get it. If you aren't able to finish something within the stipulated deadline, a person on your team would graciously offer to take it off your plate.

The same applies to school. Before I came to the United States, I heard stories about how students at Johns Hopkins were so competitive with each other that they used to tear important pages from books in the library just so other students didn't have access to it. In reality, I experienced the complete opposite. Students were highly collaborative, formed study groups, and studied / did assignments till everyone in the group "got it". I think the reason for this is that the classes are / material is so hard that it makes sense to work collaboratively to the point that students learn from each other.

Strong ethics — everyone has a lot of integrity. If someone cannot
submit their completed assignment in time, they will turn in the assignment incomplete rather than asking for answers at the last minute. People take pride in their hard work and usually do not cheat. This is different from students from India and China as well as back home in India, where everyone collaborates to the extent that it can be categorized as cheating.

Rich people are thin/ well maintained, poor people are fat. This stems from the fact that cheap food is fatty, rich people don't eat cheap food — they tend to eat either home-cooked food which is expensive or eat at expensive / healthy places. Unfortunately, it is expensive to be healthy in America.

Fat people are not respected much in society. Being fat often has the same connotations as being irresponsible towards your body. If you're thin (and tall, but not as much), people will respect you a lot more and treat you better. You will also receive better customer service if you're well maintained. This extends my previous point which mentioned that if you're thin, you're statistically likely to be rich. Reason why I know this is that I went down from being 210lbs to 148-150lbs. The way people started treating me when I was thin was generally way better than the way I was treated when I was fat. As a small example, the Starbucks baristas were much nicer to me and made me drinks with more care / love.

Girls are not very promiscuous, contrary to most Hollywood films (IRT anyone?)

Almost every single person in America has access to basic food, clothing, water and sanitation. I haven't been to states like Louisiana and cities like Detroit, but from what I can tell, nobody is scrambling for the basic necessities required for sustenance.

Dearth of African Americans in technical fields. This probably stems from the fact that they aren't given enough opportunity, broken families, etc. I'm pretty sure you can extend upon this if you'd like.

It's expensive to have brick houses in America, contrary to India where brick houses are the norm

Emphasis on physical fitness / being outdoorsy — this is more of a California thing but I noticed families going on biking trips, boat trips, hiking, camping, barbecuing, etc. Americans take pride in the natural beauty of their surroundings and tend to make the most of it

Americans waste a lot of food. It is very easy to buy in bulk because it's so much cheaper and as a result a lot of wastage occurs.

Obsession with coffee — Starbucks, Dunkin' etc is crowded with office-goers and students every morning. I don't understand why they can't drink or make coffee before leaving for work. Such a waste of money! ($5/day * 5days / week * 52weeks/year)!

Split families, not having married parents, etc is not seen differently than the contrary.

Support towards the LGBT community — it's fairly normal to be part of the LGBT community; it's not considered a mortal sin if you like someone in your own gender or if you aren't comfortable being male/female/etc. Proof of this is the LGBT Pride Day held in every city etc.

Smoking weed is seen the same as smoking cigarettes.
And here are some more things he found surprising about America, excerpted from his post last summer on Quora :

The way that stores price their products makes no apparent economic sense, and is not linear at all.

For example, at a typical store:
- 1 can of coke : $1.00
- 12 cans of coke : $3.00
- 1 Häagen-Dazs ice cream bar : $3.00
- 12 Häagen-Dazs ice cream bars : $7.00

The return policy on almost everything: None of my friends back in India believed me when I told them that you can literally buy anything, including food, and return it within ninety days for a full refund even if you don't have a specific reason for doing so (most stores actually have a "Buyer's Remorse" category under Reason for Return options while returning the product).

The pervasiveness of fast food and the sheer variety of products available: The typical supermarket has at least a hundred varieties of frozen pizza, 50 brands of trail mix, etc. I was just astounded by the different kinds of products available even at small gas station convenience stores.

Soda being cheaper than bottled water: It makes no sense that carbonated and flavored water with HFCS are cheaper than regular water, but hey, that's just how it is.

The fact that there are full service rest stops with decent chain restaurants and big supermarkets every couple of miles on interstate highways

Fruit and vegetable prices, as compared to fast food prices:

- Bag of grapes : $6.00
- Box of strawberries : $5.00
- 1 lb tomatoes : $3.00

- McChicken : $1.00
- [McDouble] : $1.00

Unlimited soda refills:

The first time (and one of the last times...) I visited McDonalds in 2007, the cashier gave me an empty cup when I ordered soda. The concept of virtually unlimited soda refills was alien to me, and I thought there was a catch to it, but apparently not.

Slightly digressing, I've noticed that the typical fountain machine has a huge selection, including Pepsi, Pepsi Max, Sprite, Sprite Zero, Hi-C, Powerade, Lemonade, Raspberry Lemonade (and/or their coca-cola counterparts)... The list goes on. This may not seem like much, but it is actually a lot more compared to the 3-4 options (coca-cola, sprite, fanta, limca) that most Indian soda fountain machines have.

Serving Sizes: American serving sizes are HUGE! I've noticed that entree sizes are huge as well. I am by no means a small eater, but it usually takes me at least 1.5 meals to finish the entree.

US Flag displayed everywhere: I was surprised to see that the US flag is displayed in schools, on rooftops of houses, etc. India has very strict rules governing the display and use of the national flag. Also, something that struck out to me was how it was completely normal to wear the US flag or a US flag-like pattern as a bikini.

Over-commercialization of festivals: I'm not denying that festivals like Diwali and Eid aren't extremely commercialized in India, but America takes it to a whole new level. Black Friday, Cyber Monday, etc., and an almost year-round sale of Christmas, Halloween, Easter, etc. items.

An almost-classless society: I've noticed that most Americans roughly have the same standard of living. Everybody has access to ample food, everybody shops at the same supermarkets, malls, stores, etc. I've seen plumbers, construction workers and janitors driving their own sedans, which was quite difficult for me to digest at first since I came from a country where construction workers and plumbers lived hand to mouth.

Also, (almost) all sections of society are roughly equal. You'll see service professionals owning iPhones, etc. as well. This may be wrong but part of it has to do with the fact that obtaining credit in this country is extremely easy. Anybody can buy anything, for the most part, except for something like a Maserati, obviously. As a result, most monetary possessions aren't really status symbols. I believe that the only status symbol in America is your job, and possibly your educational qualifications.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-weird...z2dm8nPh9e

[JimNortonFan]

Nonlinear pricing due to high labor costs?

A lot of this is either pollyannish or where he came from is somewhere I never want to go.

[TheSlayer]

Quote:

Fat people are not respected much in society. Being fat often has the same connotations as being irresponsible towards your body. If you're thin (and tall, but not as much), people will respect you a lot more and treat you better. You will also receive better customer service if you're well maintained. This extends my previous point which mentioned that if you're thin, you're statistically likely to be rich. Reason why I know this is that I went down from being 210lbs to 148-150lbs. The way people started treating me when I was thin was generally way better than the way I was treated when I was fat. As a small example, the Starbucks baristas were much nicer to me and made me drinks with more care / love.

Are fatties going to crucify him for speaking the truth?

Overall, a lot of interesting comparisons and makes you realize how much better do Americans have it (at least in regards to quality of life and having access to the very basic necessities of life that we take for granted here).

[Roosh]

Looks like he was in too much of a protective bubble to see the real America.

[eradicator]

(09-02-2013 05:07 PM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  

Nonlinear pricing due to high labor costs?

A lot of this is either pollyannish or where he came from is somewhere I never want to go.

A little bit from column A and a little bit from column B. He was just highlighting the differences between India and the USA day to day living from his perspective.

I am pretty surprised he didn't bring up the lack of a caste system in the USA. India has a very strict caste system, if you are born into one of the lower castes, the best life you could maybe hope for is working in a call center.

If you are born into a good family in India, you will have access to better education growing up and much more opportunities later in life. He did mention that the usa is not so much a country of have and have nots, very few people are lacking basic food and water and shelter, as he notes.

[Que enspastic]

I'm with IRT.

Can an American please explain why you accept shit back when there's absolutely nothing wrong with the purchase?

[eradicator]

(09-02-2013 05:16 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Looks like he was in too much of a protective bubble to see the real America.

Heh, you might like the book High Stakes, No Prisoners. It deals with silicon valley culture and venture capitalism. It was written in the 1990s and Silicon Valley was even more freewheeling while the economy was booming, but Carnegie Melon(a hard core science school) and Silicon Valley(the tech capital of the world), he is living among an elite group.

[Kabal]

(09-02-2013 05:19 PM)master_thespian Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 05:07 PM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  

I am pretty surprised he didn't bring up the lack of a caste system in the USA. India has a very strict caste system, if you are born into one of the lower castes, the best life you could maybe hope for is working in a call center.

If you are born into a good family in India, you will have access to better education growing up and much more opportunities later in life. He did mention that the usa is not so much a country of have and have nots, very few people are lacking basic food and water and shelter, as he notes.

The U.S. has increasingly had a de facto caste system, as well, in a way--but one that is mediated through assortative mating and the heritability of IQ and other cognitive traits like conscientiousness and future time orientation.

Greater amounts of women in schools and workplaces means men and women are more likely to be matched based on cognitive traits.

Smart people will have smart kids. Dumb people will have dumb kids.

Observed socioeconomic mobility decreases--but not for lack of socially-imposed opportunity, but for heritability.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Very interesting read. Thanks for sharing!

I'd be interested to learn more about some of the points raised by that Indian, notably about the strictness of using the Indian flag in India. Is it considered taboo or a crime in India if you wear a shirt with the flag pattern? How about a swimming short/bikini?

[LowerCaseG]

(09-02-2013 05:19 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

I'm with IRT.

Can an American please explain why you accept shit back when there's absolutely nothing wrong with the purchase?

Because "The customer is always right."

This is an under the radar problem. We need to acknowledge and shame bad customers like we do fatties. I think a solid portion of the entitlement issues the public has are a result of being treated like royalty at McDonalds when you order a McDouble. Customers are rewarded for being difficult and making scenes.

I always dreamed of becoming independently wealthy, opening a restaurant, and telling those typically difficult diners to fuck off and go somewhere else next time.

[TheSlayer]

(09-02-2013 05:40 PM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  

Because "The customer is always right."

This is an under the radar problem. We need to acknowledge and shame bad customers like we do fatties. I think a solid portion of the entitlement issues the public has are a result of being treated like royalty at McDonalds when you order a McDouble. Customers are rewarded for being difficult and making scenes.

I always dreamed of becoming independently wealthy, opening a restaurant, and telling those typically difficult diners to fuck off and go somewhere else next time.

You are talking about two different things. Customer service in itself is a different aspect of the retail business than being allowed to try products and return them if you don't like it or for whatever reason with a few exceptions.

In regards to customers are being rewarded for being difficult and making scenes, it's a two way street. There was another thread here on customer service or something similar and I said I always talk to CSRs politely but firmly and I usually get very good results. From personally working as a CSR in different fields for a couple of years I know firsthand that most of them help people who are polite and don't respond well to yelling and screaming. However, at the lowest level CSRs have very limited power and can't do much. The blame also lies with companies who don't offer good service. For example, how many times have you experienced this yourself or heard from others (especially when it comes to phone/cable/insurance companies) that you were overcharged or there was a problem with the bill and the CSR refused to help you. After escalating the issue to the manager with a lot of yelling they managed to get the issue resolved.

Generally, if you are polite with CSRs you will have an easier time but a lot of the times companies don't want them to refund your money without talking to managers or don't want to make it easy for the customer. Sometimes when I feel like yelling at the agent I politely ask to be transferred or request for the manager. There is no doubt that some people are just assholes and act like the world owes them but a lot of the times people have been conditioned by terrible customer service and think that they have to act out to get what they want. It's almost a chicken and egg situation.

[Tuthmosis]

I found myself mostly annoyed by this IRT's un-astute and highly unoriginal observations. I know businessinsider is a semi-spam website, but I'm surprised that they gave this a platform.

And, he's wrong about American girls not being promiscuous. As we all know, they are. This is very typical of (thirsty) foreign dudes, but especially Indian guys. They think "promiscuous" means the girls will just sleep with anyone, with zero effort. That's why they fondle American white girls on buses and other crowded areas when they visit their native countries.

They're sluts, yes, but you still need game.

[TheSlayer]

(09-02-2013 05:52 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

And, he's wrong about American girls not being promiscuous. As we all know, they are. This is very typical of (thirsty) foreign dudes, but especially Indian guys. They think "promiscuous" means the girls will just sleep with anyone, with zero effort. That's why they fondle American white girls on buses and other crowded areas when they visit their native countries.

They're sluts, yes, but you still need game.

Fully agree with the game part but I thought the economic comparisons were very interesting.

[one-two]

Quote:

US Flag displayed everywhere: I was surprised to see that the US flag is displayed in schools, on rooftops of houses, etc.

I wonder if his photo background was done that way on purpose.

[JimNortonFan]

(09-02-2013 05:52 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

I found myself mostly annoyed by this IRT's un-astute and highly unoriginal observations. I know businessinsider is a semi-spam website, but I'm surprised that they gave this a platform.

And, he's wrong about American girls not being promiscuous. As we all know, they are. This is very typical of (thirsty) foreign dudes, but especially Indian guys. They think "promiscuous" means the girls will just sleep with anyone, with zero effort. That's why they fondle American white girls on buses and other crowded areas when they visit their native countries.

They're sluts, yes, but you still need game.

They aren't promiscuous enough to do a wide eyed boring 4 in the looks department awkward computer programmer.

In other news, sometimes the slots in Vegas DON'T give you money when you put in a quarter.

[aphelion]

(09-02-2013 05:16 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Looks like he was in too much of a protective bubble to see the real America.

Well, if he came from a shithole in India, America itself is a protective bubble compared to that. A lot of what he says is going to be tinged by his background. Particularly telling was his observations on class; compared to India, America is a very classless society with much more interaction and mobility between classes. But that's compared to India.

There are lots of good things about America. We're pretty focused on dealing with women here, and so our perspective of America gets a negative light shone onto it, but on the whole there's generally a lot of good here when you ignore the pretty dreadful state of women. Which he probably has.

[Onto]

Being a Software Developer I've worked either side by side or for Indians the past 15 years.

This young intern who was surprised at the cooperation and lack of back-stabbing and racism here in America speaks truthful volumes about his own people and their society.

As much as I loathe the state of male/female relations in our society, I'm very proud of the fact we are the wealthiest, strongest and closest to racial and religious tolerance of any place on the planet.

[Kabal]

(09-02-2013 05:30 PM)Kabal Wrote:  

[quote] (09-02-2013 05:19 PM)master_thespian Wrote:  

I am pretty surprised he didn't bring up the lack of a caste system in the USA. India has a very strict caste system, if you are born into one of the lower castes, the best life you could maybe hope for is working in a call center.

If you are born into a good family in India, you will have access to better education growing up and much more opportunities later in life. He did mention that the usa is not so much a country of have and have nots, very few people are lacking basic food and water and shelter, as he notes.

The U.S. has increasingly had a de facto caste system, as well, in a way--but one that is mediated through assortative mating and the heritability of IQ and other cognitive traits like conscientiousness and future time orientation.

Greater amounts of women in schools and workplaces means men and women are more likely to be matched based on cognitive traits.

Smart people will have smart kids. Dumb people will have dumb kids.

Observed socioeconomic mobility decreases--but not for lack of socially-imposed opportunity, but for heritability.

Last post wasn't showing up.

[Tuthmosis]

^^^Double check that you closed all of your tags (e.g., [/quote]). That often creates this problem.

[Kabal]

(09-02-2013 06:25 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

^^^Double check that you closed all of your tags... That often creates this problem.

Thanks, that did the trick.

Minus attention to detail points for me.

[eradicator]

(09-02-2013 05:52 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

I found myself mostly annoyed by this IRT's un-astute and highly unoriginal observations. I know businessinsider is a semi-spam website, but I'm surprised that they gave this a platform.

And, he's wrong about American girls not being promiscuous. As we all know, they are. This is very typical of (thirsty) foreign dudes, but especially Indian guys. They think "promiscuous" means the girls will just sleep with anyone, with zero effort. That's why they fondle American white girls on buses and other crowded areas when they visit their native countries.

They're sluts, yes, but you still need game.

You mean he is an IRT with no game? I am shocked.

[speakeasy]

Correction:

(09-02-2013 05:04 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

[WHITE] Girls are not very promiscuous, contrary to most Hollywood films

But seriously, I think he's right for the most part. I recently posted some sex surveys. Most Americans have no more than 10 partners in their life. I would say that means most people are not particularly promiscuous. Sex is very much an 80/20 thing, for women as well.

[BortimusPrime]

Quote:

The retail experience is nowhere near as fun/nice as it is in India. Because labor is cheap in India, there is always someone who will act as a "personal shopper" to assist you with holding your clothes, giving suggestions, etc. In America, on the other hand, even if you go to a Nordstrom or Bloomingdales, there is almost nobody to help you out while you're shopping. Shopping in America is more of a commodity / chore than it is a pleasurable activity.

I'm guessing the reputation minority immigrants have for being cheap is why he thinks salesmen ignore everyone. Same as how the bad reputation blacks have for tipping poorly results in a vicious cycle of waiters preemptively ignoring them.

Overall the whole thing really makes India sound like a worse place though. I guess we take it for granted here that people are expected to polite to each other regardless of social class.

[Merenguero]

(09-02-2013 06:40 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Correction:

(09-02-2013 05:04 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

[WHITE] Girls are not very promiscuous, contrary to most Hollywood films

But seriously, I think he's right for the most part. I recently posted some sex surveys. Most American women claim to have no more than 10 partners in their life. I would say that means most people are not particularly promiscuous. Sex is very much an 80/20 thing, for women as well.

I fixed it for you.

[Tuthmosis]