[JimNortonFan]

They can't hire the right people.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk...roken.html


I always knew the Google brainteasers were BS.

"How many golf balls can you fit in a fuck pad?

"I don't know, I try to fit one chick at a time in. If I had a million dollars I'd try to fit two chicks at the same time man."


The article also mentions that they need to treat all employees like entrepreneurs to let them solve problems. Watch the HR hamsters melt down over that one.

[MrLemon]

(08-27-2013 08:58 PM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  

They can't hire the right people.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk...roken.html


I always knew the Google brainteasers were BS.

"How many golf balls can you fit in a fuck pad?

"I don't know, I try to fit one chick at a time in. If I had a million dollars I'd try to fit two chicks at the same time man."


The article also mentions that they need to treat all employees like entrepreneurs to let them solve problems. Watch the HR hamsters melt down over that one.

Also it's important to know that HR departments have pretty much become 99% female over the last few decades. Women are sooooo full of shit in these workplace situations. They make a lot of noise and a lot of claims, but at the end of the day, they don't do the job. The department managers (mostly men) end up finding employees through their own networks.

[Ensam]

As a job hunter it's really frustrating. Your best bet is to network and try and get your resume directly into the hands of the hiring manager. As a hiring manager you need to remember that HR works for you. If they're standing your way it's ok to make a bit of a fuss and get them to step in line. It helps if you already have a good relationship with them. I'm actually kind of glad it's almost entirely women. I go over to the HR office and flirt with them once a month or so just to stay on their good side. Then when it comes to hiring they back off and let me do it my way for the most part. In engineering it's not so hard to stay connected. There are lots of professional societies and most colleges are happy to have someone from industry drop by to meet students.

In terms of actually giving interviews brain teasers are the worse. I've found the best way to evaluate candidates is to put them through a simulation of what the core of their work is going to be. I mostly hire entry to mid level engineers. First comes the phone screen. That's where I do most of the technical probing. I'll ask if they're familiar with the basic techniques they'll need on the job or claim they know on their resume. Usually I just ask them to teach it to me assuming I know nothing about it. That gets rid of the candidates who'd flop an in person interview. The only time I've had awkward in person interviews is when it's an internal candidate who bipassed the phone screen.

I break the in person interview into two parts, a social/team fit part and a problem solving part. The social part consists of one on one interviews with one or two people whose personal judgement I trust and then a lunch outing with as much of my team as I can assemble. It's really just to see if their personality clicks with everyone else. Then for the problem solving part I like to give them three problems:
1) A problem that's similar (or identical) to the one they'll be working on. Usually it's one I've been working on or just solved. I don't expect them to finish it. I just want them to walk me through how they'd solve it. For example I might hand them a broken part and without explaining what it is or what it does ask them what happened to it. They're allowed to ask me any questions about the part or the equipment it goes into and I'll give them hints if they start to struggle.
2) A problem that they should know how to solve based on their resume or something they brought up on the phone screen.
3) A problem that's a real stretch, something they probably aren't familiar with, maybe not even an engineering problem per se. This is more to see how adaptable they are because chances are they're only going to be on my team for 2-3 years but they might be with the company for a decade or more.

It's worked well for me so far. People like my hires and they get good performance reviews. The main drawback is it's very time intensive. An entry level job interview takes 4-6 hours of face time. The mid to senior level job interviews take 8-12 hours and might go over multiple days. Mine took 12 hours and was done in a single day (8am - 8pm).

Good companies will follow a similar process. If a company starts treating you like it's a privilege for you to even be going through their hiring process - Run.

http://askamanager.org is a great resource for how to navigate the whole process and what to look out for.

[ColSpanker]

In my years working for The Man I learned to hate HR departments with a passion. One fellow worker at a pharmaceutical outfit (where I did 18 miserable months) would tell me about being thankful the HR taskmaster didn't know his name.

[scorpion]

Well, employers aren't allowed to accurately gauge the intelligence of job candidates with IQ tests. (You can thank the Supreme Court for that.)

So basically companies have tried to come up with a bunch of proxy measures for intelligence to compensate, such as: a college degree, solving brainteasers, and figuring out how to game the ridiculous hiring/interview process in general.

As college degrees have become increasingly devalued, the most competitive companies have switched to recruiting from only the highest-ranked schools. That's the only way they can be reasonably certain the person has a high IQ without testing them for it, since high SAT scores correlate strongly with high IQ, and elite schools require high SAT scores. Beyond the networking, this is the real reason that Ivy League degrees are so valuable. It's not anything you learn in school, it's simply an indisputable public declaration that you've got a high IQ that lasts for the rest of your life. So in a country where IQ testing for jobs is illegal, it's easy to see how that's a very valuable thing.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

HR at my old company: white woman from 99 percent white section of town sets up a series of "seminars" to teach a melting pot of workers in a melting pot town about "diversity."

The seminars, in essence, told us how we were all a bunch of bigots even though we'd all worked side-by-side for years with nary a problem (several minorities were managers FWIW).

People were actually laughing at the seminars and the biggest clown of the bunch was an older black female editor. She wanted to know if the HR woman was going to next establish rules as to who we could and couldn't date.

Addendum: when they later set up rules about "sexual misconduct" it ended up with women turning other women in for dressing too risque. It became a battle of the uptight church ladies in accounting vs. young hotties in credit, with the men looking on bemused. One woman was actually sent home to change. Guys had nothing to do with this MASSIVE dysfunction.

[Dusty]

I worked for a corporation in Finance. Our HR department were all women. They couldn't do basic math, and didn't know shit about how the benefits worked etc. We'd do an acquisition, and the Finance department would rely on the HR department for headcount numbers and what the impact would be on medical insurance, etc, and these broads would totally let us down and couldn't pull through with meaningful data. They would have emotional meltdowns from the pressure, then turn it around somehow on the mean guys in Finance. And they were all making six figure salaries.

[porscheguy]

I put in an application at a manufacturing facility last year.

I received a call back. The HR girl asked me if I had forklift experience because they were in need of a forklift operator.

My reply: "yes, I can run a Lull, Sky Trak, JCB, etc."

Her: "but we need to know if you can run a forklift."

Me: "I just told you I can not only run a forklift, I can run a telescopic forklift with outriggers that goes offroad."

Her: "Well we need someone who can run a forklift inside a warehouse."

Me: "I have run telescopic forklifts on construction sites, carrying 5-7 tons of materials that may be worth $50K or more, through mud that would come over your knees, and up and down loosely packed hills so steep they make San Francisco's most asshole puckering streets look like South Florida."

Her: "I don't understand."

Me: "Your revelation doesn't surprise me. I think I'm overqualified to work in any position at this company. Have a good day."

When you have HR departments staffed with people who have degrees in HR and no real technical understanding of any aspects of the jobs they're hiring people to perform, you wind up with all kinds of fucked up shit. Had the person I spoke to been a man who had worked on the assembly line and knew what the fuck was going on, he would have known enough to know whether or not my experience could carry over and be beneficial for their needs.

Believe it or not, I got called back a few weeks later for a face to face interview for another position. I went along but kept my expectations low. In the HR office where I wound up sitting for about an hour, I perused their selection of HR Magazine because it was the only thing they had to look at. I browsed through about 4 of them. Not once did I see an article along the subject line "to be effective at HR, you need to have some technical knowledge of the job vacancy you are trying to fill."

[aphelion]

My favorite question is "Tell me about your greatest weakness."

"My greatest weakness is that sometimes I give too much credit to silly ideas and parroted lines before I think more critically about them. Like the 'tell me about your greatest weakness' question. You and I both know that answering this question is an exercise in politicking, about putting the best possible spin onto a dog of an answer. I can do it, and I can do that pretty well if I need to. But if that's one of the qualities you're actually hiring for, then I may want to look elsewhere."

[AnonymousBosch]

This happened on Monday, I shit you not.

A couple of the HR Cow's came into my office and requested my presence, saying there are no men in HR, and they needed one to hear a sexual harrassment complaint in the interest of fairness. I figure what the hell, and go, thinking it might lead to an interesting hamster story.

Turns out, it was one of the flaming gay male nurses on staff. He started by saying it was a year ago and he has trouble sleeping since 'the incident', and that he actually feels like he has post-traumatic stress, and finds it hard to come into work and socialise with staff and patients. But he realised it's time to be brave because workplace bullies shouldn't get away with such 'injustices' so he needs to stand up and be a 'hero'.

Yes, he used that word. I figure, OK, some dude on staff has raped the guy, but, then, with much comforting from the women and boxes of tissues being passed around to mop up tears, he told us what happened.

There's a huge fat female nurse on staff, ugliest thing you'll ever see. Standard dyed hair, 50's glasses. He said he was talking to her at her desk, and she put his hand up his shorts and touched his dick on a day he'd chosen to go commando. That was the full extent of it. "I never wanted a woman touching that! I've been violated."

That's when I burst out laughing.

Flaming gay lost his shit over that: "Why has every man I've told laughed? I'm going to call the Human Rights commission! I've been sexually assaulted!"

End result: the HR Cows were very unhappy with me. I apparently need 'sensitivity training', and they're organising it. I'm taking this as a clear sign that it's time to leave the public sector.

[defguy]

What a great article! And great stories! Ive learned long ago that putting your resume in front of a hiring manager is the surest way to a job interview. Any feedback and advice on how to bypass gatekeepers or bypass the HR and get straight to the Hiring manager? Or ways to get the hiring managers name so you can mail/email him your resume?

[It_is_my_time]

I work about 90 hours a weeks, 3 different jobs, all just so I can escape this kind of BS.

I realized I don't hate what I do for a living, I wouldn't hate being a middle class beta if I decided to settle for it, I can't stand to work with a majority of women for the reasons listed here.

[Dr. Howard]

(08-27-2013 09:55 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  

I put in an application at a manufacturing facility last year.

I received a call back. The HR girl asked me if I had forklift experience because they were in need of a forklift operator.

My reply: "yes, I can run a Lull, Sky Trak, JCB, etc."

Her: "but we need to know if you can run a forklift."

Me: "I just told you I can not only run a forklift, I can run a telescopic forklift with outriggers that goes offroad."

Her: "Well we need someone who can run a forklift inside a warehouse."

Me: "I have run telescopic forklifts on construction sites, carrying 5-7 tons of materials that may be worth $50K or more, through mud that would come over your knees, and up and down loosely packed hills so steep they make San Francisco's most asshole puckering streets look like South Florida."

Her: "I don't understand."

Me: "Your revelation doesn't surprise me. I think I'm overqualified to work in any position at this company. Have a good day."

When you have HR departments staffed with people who have degrees in HR and no real technical understanding of any aspects of the jobs they're hiring people to perform, you wind up with all kinds of fucked up shit. Had the person I spoke to been a man who had worked on the assembly line and knew what the fuck was going on, he would have known enough to know whether or not my experience could carry over and be beneficial for their needs.

Believe it or not, I got called back a few weeks later for a face to face interview for another position. I went along but kept my expectations low. In the HR office where I wound up sitting for about an hour, I perused their selection of HR Magazine because it was the only thing they had to look at. I browsed through about 4 of them. Not once did I see an article along the subject line "to be effective at HR, you need to have some technical knowledge of the job vacancy you are trying to fill."

Way back when HR departments were smaller managers would blow their load if they found someone that knew HR (formerly safety and benefits) and the technical aspect of the job.

Now its HR people hiring HR people so they hire mirrors of themselves...with no technical job skills.

This is about 50% of the reason to work freelance, contractors only have to be approved by purchasing, not HR. The contractor/consultant bullpen at the office I used to work in was, wait for it.....all guys...whereas the staff was 50/50 and the HR department was 10 women and 1 guy.

[slothpiece]

(08-28-2013 01:19 AM)defguy Wrote:  

What a great article! And great stories! Ive learned long ago that putting your resume in front of a hiring manager is the surest way to a job interview. Any feedback and advice on how to bypass gatekeepers or bypass the HR and get straight to the Hiring manager? Or ways to get the hiring managers name so you can mail/email him your resume?

For DC, we have this $10,000-a-year online directory of government workers, corporations, law firms, trade associations and the like. I use an old password to look up hiring managers based off the job descriptions. Before I had that, I'd do the same but with Google. I've pissed off HR department staffers before by bypassing them entirely and getting the resume to the inbox of the VPs or managers of large corporations. I've gotten interviews that way based off tenacity as a few have put it. The directory is Leadership Directories. If you know someone with an account, I highly suggest using it.

[Walderschmidt]

I wonder if job candidates could get around that by offering up their IQ number on an IQ test a company could trust.

Maybe somebody could start a business doing this.

Wald

(08-27-2013 09:36 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Well, employers aren't allowed to accurately gauge the intelligence of job candidates with IQ tests. (You can thank the Supreme Court for that.)

[Cattle Rustler]

(08-28-2013 09:29 AM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

I wonder if job candidates could get around that by offering up their IQ number on an IQ test a company could trust.

Maybe somebody could start a business doing this.

Wald

(08-27-2013 09:36 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Well, employers aren't allowed to accurately gauge the intelligence of job candidates with IQ tests. (You can thank the Supreme Court for that.)

They would probably disqualify the candidate for doing that. Sometimes they do the same for candidates that openly state their religion, race, or age.

The logic is that by considering that candidate you might be taking a preference in their race, religion, etc. Hellooooo lawsuit.

[AnonymousBosch]

(08-28-2013 09:37 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

(08-28-2013 09:29 AM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

I wonder if job candidates could get around that by offering up their IQ number on an IQ test a company could trust.

Maybe somebody could start a business doing this.

Wald

(08-27-2013 09:36 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Well, employers aren't allowed to accurately gauge the intelligence of job candidates with IQ tests. (You can thank the Supreme Court for that.)

They would probably disqualify the candidate for doing that. Sometimes they do the same for candidates that openly state their religion, race, or age.

The logic is that by considering that candidate you might be taking a preference in their race, religion, etc. Hellooooo lawsuit.

I've always written covering letters with every application I've put in explaining my reasons for applying; my interest in the company; the reasons why I see it as a fit for me; and my long-term goals for the future.

It's an easier way to display your intelligence than one thousand 'tell me your greatest weakness' type questions.

[tomhagen]

(08-28-2013 09:21 AM)slothpiece Wrote:  

(08-28-2013 01:19 AM)defguy Wrote:  

What a great article! And great stories! Ive learned long ago that putting your resume in front of a hiring manager is the surest way to a job interview. Any feedback and advice on how to bypass gatekeepers or bypass the HR and get straight to the Hiring manager? Or ways to get the hiring managers name so you can mail/email him your resume?

For DC, we have this $10,000-a-year online directory of government workers, corporations, law firms, trade associations and the like. I use an old password to look up hiring managers based off the job descriptions. Before I had that, I'd do the same but with Google. I've pissed off HR department staffers before by bypassing them entirely and getting the resume to the inbox of the VPs or managers of large corporations. I've gotten interviews that way based off tenacity as a few have put it. The directory is Leadership Directories. If you know someone with an account, I highly suggest using it.

What is the name of that directory?

[Ensam]

It really isn't HRs job to find candidates. It should be the hiring managers job and HR is there to assist them and ensure they follow whatever corporate policies are in place around hiring. I think it's best to think of HR like accounting, IT, purchasing, or any other major corporate service department. They're there to keep track of and maintain a certain class of assets (in this case labor). I don't go to purchasing and say, hey I need to a new logic analyzer. They'd have no idea what the fuck a logic analyzer is. Instead I go to them and say hey, I want to buy a piece of equipment that costs $10k, how many quotes do I need, how to do I go about getting a PO, etc, etc. They walk me through the process on their end but it's still up to me to go out and find the piece of equipment I want. If I end up getting a piece of equipment that's not right for the job it's on me, not purchasing. Likewise a company can't hire good employees it's on their hiring managers, not HR. The only exception is if HR is actively getting in the way of hiring talent but you do not want to work for a company that can't keep their HR department in check.

The best way to get your resume in front of a hiring manager is to use your network. If you don't have a good network then start to build one by getting involved in the various professional societies or your college's alumni association. If you get my corporate (or god forbid personal) email from some database and just shoot me a cold message I'm probably not going look at your resume.

[AnonymousBosch]

(08-27-2013 11:29 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

This happened on Monday, I shit you not.

A couple of the HR Cow's came into my office and requested my presence, saying there are no men in HR, and they needed one to hear a sexual harrassment complaint in the interest of fairness. I figure what the hell, and go, thinking it might lead to an interesting hamster story.

Turns out, it was one of the flaming gay male nurses on staff. He started by saying it was a year ago and he has trouble sleeping since 'the incident', and that he actually feels like he has post-traumatic stress, and finds it hard to come into work and socialise with staff and patients. But he realised it's time to be brave because workplace bullies shouldn't get away with such 'injustices' so he needs to stand up and be a 'hero'.

Yes, he used that word. I figure, OK, some dude on staff has raped the guy, but, then, with much comforting from the women and boxes of tissues being passed around to mop up tears, he told us what happened.

There's a huge fat female nurse on staff, ugliest thing you'll ever see. Standard dyed hair, 50's glasses. He said he was talking to her at her desk, and she put his hand up his shorts and touched his dick on a day he'd chosen to go commando. That was the full extent of it. "I never wanted a woman touching that! I've been violated."

That's when I burst out laughing.

Flaming gay lost his shit over that: "Why has every man I've told laughed? I'm going to call the Human Rights commission! I've been sexually assaulted!"

End result: the HR Cows were very unhappy with me. I apparently need 'sensitivity training', and they're organising it. I'm taking this as a clear sign that it's time to leave the public sector.

Following up on this:

I left that workplace a couple of weeks later and in the private sector where this kind of stupidity doesn't exist. By utter coincidence, there are no women on staff. Odd that. Work just flies by now, and shit gets done without all the complication.

Before I left, I repeatedly told the flaming gay, in as calm and straighforward a manner as possible, that he wouldn't win the complaint, as the Fat Nurse - he calls her 'Divine' - was friends with the Upper Female Manager, and has been incompetent and lazy at her job for years but is oddly-untouchable considering she is unqualified and is the lowest ranked member of staff.

I said if she wasn't fired for calling a patient a 'boong' on Facebook [aussie slander word for aboriginal, she was saved because she didn't list her workplace on her profile]; telling an emphysema patient his wheezing was driving her crazy and to 'fucking stop it'; and leaving a dementia patient unsupervised in a motorised chair in the car park because 'sun would be good for him', requiring the police to try and find where he'd gone, then grabbing a handful of his dong wasn't going to do it either.

His reply: "But this is sexual harrassment!" I explained women hold the power in this situation and government incompetence will win out, and his homosexual victim status wouldn't matter because women stick together and have no empathy for men. He told me I was "being sexist" and "not to be silly".

Ran into him a few weeks later in town, and he said the women were all ostracising him, and Divine was organising outside of work social events for the other women during times when he was on shift. I warned him that women know how to play the social game and the victimisation game much better than men, and he wouldn't win. Once again, he told me I was "being silly!"

A couple of weeks after that, I seem him around town again, and he tells me that he is no longer allowed to give her any instructions in the workplace, despite him ranking higher than her in the chain of command, because she calls this 'workplace bullying' and has repeatedly reported him. None of the women socialise with him anymore, and it's all angry glares and one word responses until he leaves the room.

He tracked me down last night, angry enough to find my home phone number in the old staff directory. After almost three months of legal proceedings, he got the final report yesterday.

It was a letter of reprimand against him, stating he wasn't wearing work-approved uniform shorts in the workplace.

That was it. Divine isn't getting punished in any way, and there was no reference to her assaulting him at all.

He lost his shit. The dude was ranting. "I was wearing cargo pants that go below the knee! Unfuckingbelievable! They must be the same cunts that think women wearing short skirts are asking to be raped!"

I said, "Women believe they are incapable of doing anything wrong, and will back each other up to keep the delusion."

Then he said "I used to think you were really, really sexist and you were talking shit, but everything you said was completely true. They all ganged up on me. None of them talk to me at work any more. No wonder straight men hate women and complain about them all the time. They're fucking crazy bitches!"

He said he was going to quit, and he was qualified and really good at what she does, and doesn't understand why they'd keep a woman with no qualifications who has zero empathy for the patients.

I patiently talked him down off the ledge, but he signed off by saying he was now 'a misogynist', and understood why other gays call them 'fish'.

So, there you go. In the Victimisation Battle of A Gay Man vs A Fat, Incompetent Woman, the latter wins. Your tax dollars in action.

[Statsi]

HR departments being all female is actually great if you're a handsome guy trying to get a job. It's what keeps pretty girls out of big companies though, damn jealous hr departments.