[Conrad Turnipson]

You guys are quite well-travelled and have had the chance to immerse yourself in a variety of different cultures. What are some of the patterns that you have noticed? Which nationalities or ethnicities have struck you as especially patriotic or noticeably unpatriotic?

I employ the term patriotic in the sense of men/women frequently praising their country, displaying interest in their own music or literature, the women speaking highly of their own men and refusing to talk about any of their shortcomings with outsiders, the men being highly protective and supportive of their own women when the topic of feminism is discussed, etc.

I think that even highly patriotic individuals still tend to be quite friendly and may be willing to date those people who belong to foreign ethnicities.

I have had many positive experiences with Latvians - they generally seem to be an easy-going bunch (are willing to learn about other cultures/are tolerant when it comes to cultural misunderstandings) and usually speak highly of their own government and display optimism regarding their country's prospects for future economic growth.

[Teedub]

I'd say the French are fairly patriotic. Mexicans also, well at least the mestizos - I suspect this formed as a retaliation from the colonization and then independence from Spain and the continued presence of whites in the echelons of power and high society there. Brazil is extremely diverse but they're very 'together' and patriotic as a nation, a lot of it rooted in football (soccer). Likewise Argentina, although it's not really diverse. I guess when it comes to football, every country who plays it at a high level is patriotic when it comes to that.

But yeah, soccer aside, French, Italians, Greeks and Spaniards in my experience. North Europe has had the patriotism kicked out of it in a sense (football aside) due to extremely high levels of immigration and political correctness. I can't comment on many other places because I haven't been.

[Luvianka]

Russians, French, Brazilians, Serbians, Cubans, Chinese and Japanese.
Hindus are an interesting case, they are more bounded by language and religion than by nationality, so they are more proud to be Hindis, Sikhs and Muslims.
Americans are in the bottom right now. I found Americans very confused about what they are right now as a nation.

[Que enspastic]

what's with americans having their national flags everywhere?

[Que enspastic]

thailand does it too.

[MrRoundtree]

Americans, Swiss, Spaniards, Italians

[j r]

(08-22-2013 04:10 PM)Luvianka Wrote:  

Russians, French, Brazilians, Serbians, Cubans, Chinese and Japanese.
Hindus are an interesting case, they are more bounded by language and religion than by nationality, so they are more proud to be Hindis, Sikhs and Muslims.
Americans are in the bottom right now. I found Americans very confused about what they are right now as a nation.

That's called freedom. Personally, I dig it.

[RonnieB]

Australians get annoyingly patriotic, more than Americans.

[Basil Ransom]

Danes are much bigger flag wavers than Americans. They will go to the park, set up a picnic, and plant fags around the perimeter of their spread. They will be openly critical of their own country, but if a foreigner criticizes Denmark, no matter how gently, Danes will get butthurt and start mocking the critic's country. They're also super passive aggressive.

Israelis are very patriotic, yet often desperate to get out of Israel and stay out.

[TheSlayer]

I find Italians and Greeks to be very patriotic.

[chexmix]

I've met too many Germans that seem afraid to express any national pride in their country.

Felt like Serbia was pretty patriotic from when I was there.

[RussianSoul]

Austrians are patriotic in a funny way. They are very keen on maintaining a separate identity from Germany although culturally and linguistically Austria is basically a German province.

[Chaos]

Japanese are the most patriotic without a doubt. Koreans come close second!
In Pakistan I smelled a lot of patriotism also. I could almost call it fanatism.

[Flint]

I never understood the need for patriotism. I'm proud of the things I have achieved in life but I can't take pride in the coincidence that I was born in a certain country. This is not to say that it is totally irrelevant where you are from. The more I travel the more I realize how much I am shaped by the culture I grew and how it guides my way of thinking. I'm also very happy that I have a passport from a EU country which makes it easy to travel most parts of the world. I just don't claim credit for something I'm not responsible nor am I ashamed of it.

To quote the great Arthur Schopenhauer: "Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority."


In answer to the inital question: I found people in Balkan countries (Serbia, Albania, Croatia, Hungary) to be extraordinarily patriotic.

[theArbiter]

(08-23-2013 05:25 AM)Flint Wrote:  

In answer to the inital question: I found people in Balkan countries (Serbia, Albania, Croatia, Hungary) to be extraordinarily patriotic.

You had a great post that I agree with except for the last part: did you really find Hungarians to be patriotic?

My experiences were the complete opposite.

There are actually formal studies undertaken which often show that Hungary is the least happy country in Europe or the world or whatever. This is largely derived from a history of Hungary filled with loss after loss (Mongol conquests, Ottomon Empire occupation, [especially] the Treaty of Trianon, etc.).

In the survey, one of the tasks was to respond "true/false" to a bunch of listed statements. In response, to "If Hungary disappeared from the face of the earth, nobody would notice nor care", they had the most "true" responses compared to any of the other countries surveyed. Maybe they're being pragmatic, but I don't think such a belief is patriotic.

I know I'm mainly talking about level of happiness, not the extent of patriotism, but I don't remember an instance of this depressive nature translating into national pride in any of the Hungarians that I have met.

Well, there's one thing: they love their language.

And rightly so.

[RawGod]

(08-23-2013 07:17 AM)theArbiter Wrote:  

(08-23-2013 05:25 AM)Flint Wrote:  

In answer to the inital question: I found people in Balkan countries (Serbia, Albania, Croatia, Hungary) to be extraordinarily patriotic.

You had a great post that I agree with except for the last part: did you really find Hungarians to be patriotic?

My experiences were the complete opposite.

There are actually formal studies undertaken which often show that Hungary is the least happy country in Europe or the world or whatever. This is largely derived from a history of Hungary filled with loss after loss (Mongol conquests, Ottomon Empire occupation, [especially] the Treaty of Trianon, etc.).

In the survey, one of the tasks was to respond "true/false" to a bunch of listed statements. In response, to "If Hungary disappeared from the face of the earth, nobody would notice nor care", they had the most "true" responses compared to any of the other countries surveyed. Maybe they're being pragmatic, but I don't think such a belief is patriotic.

I know I'm mainly talking about level of happiness, not the extent of patriotism, but I don't remember an instance of this depressive nature translating into national pride in any of the Hungarians that I have met.

Well, there's one thing: they love their language.

And rightly so.

Hungarians are complicated and melancholic. They have a lot of pride, but feel themselves to be the losers of history, after the Turkish horde, the Treaty of Trianon, and Soviet domination. So it's a resentful kind of patriotism, like followers of a sports team that hasn't won the championship since 1928, and even their pride is full of self-deprecation.

They should feel more positive that they have retained their identity and language as an island in the middle of a Slavic and Germanic sea for a thousand years, but that's just their melancholic temperament.

And Hungary is not in the Balkans.

[Sargon of Akkad]

(08-22-2013 09:10 PM)chexmix Wrote:  

I've met too many Germans that seem afraid to express any national pride in their country.

It's true that the Germans are very wary of expressing "national pride" or patriotism of any sorts. This is basically a backlash against Hitler and the Nazis. Showing national pride in Germany will typically get you branded a skinhead. It use to be that even showing a German flag could arouse this type of accusation, but this has changed somewhat since the 2006 World Cup, when suddenly flag waving became very popular and common, so long as it's only during international football/soccer events.

[azulsombra]

Brazil by a long shot, they take the flag everywhere.
I would rank mexicans next and then americans or argentinians.

[Que enspastic]

IRT are pretty patriotic. ask them why india is poor and they'll argue that it's rich.

[Bolthouse]

You guys think Americans are patriotic?

Go to downtown LA/NYC/SF and (as long as you're not muslim) yell Fuck USA. Nobody will bat an eyelash.

Try doing something similar in France, Italy, Mexico, Russia, Brazil and see what happens.

[Hencredible Casanova]

I would say Central Americans are the LEAST patriotic, save for, maybe, Salvadoreans. Generally, those cultures are very humble and seem like US backyard colonies.

[tylerdurden1993]

Id say that for the UK it depends on what class your in working class people here tend to be quite patriotic much to the displeasure of the people in charge. With the middle classes it tends to range from apathy to not been very patriotic at all especially the metropolitan left wing do gooders who like to bleat on about the the british empires crimes etc

[Volk]

Colombians, to death. How do you piss off a Colombian? Say Columbian despite their protests. They will make it their own jihad to hammer it into your brain that is not Columbia, it's Colombia. When it comes to country, they can't even take the smallest joke without being offended.

[azulsombra]

(08-23-2013 01:32 PM)Bolthouse Wrote:  

You guys think Americans are patriotic?

Go to downtown LA/NYC/SF and (as long as you're not muslim) yell Fuck USA. Nobody will bat an eyelash.

Try doing something similar in France, Italy, Mexico, Russia, Brazil and see what happens.

True, but the US is a big country and attitudes differ, the cities u listed are almost 40% immigrants. You might get a different reaction in dallas, charlotte, san antonio, boston, philly, cleveland, etc.

[rvlefty]

South Korea is far ahead in the running, maybe followed by Thailand. I can't list everything that might make me think this, I'll go into more details in my Seoul review, but I'll list a few things in this thread:

I will say they are more nationalistic (not patriotic but kind of the same thing?).

- super xenophobic when it comes to foreigners in their country
- foreigners when applying for teaching jobs are required to get HIV tests to successfully be granted a visa. Koreans are excluded from this test. Dirty foreigners spreading disease in this country! Wait, don't Koreans sleep with tons of prostitutes inside and outside of the country? Bah! Nope it's the foreigners, we have to keep our kids safe!
- Korean media portraying ethnic minorities as troublemakers
- older people will swear at foreigners, even myself eating at a restaurant by myself minding my own business saying and doing nothing, a korean ajoshi (middle aged man) peers in the window and sees me eating my burger, and starts making evil faces at me giving me the death stare and probably cursing me out behind the windows...

For more reasons why http://www.expathell.com is a GREAT read about Korea.