[uni]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...sting.html

104 men arrested in New York for something that is totally legal in most
of European countries...

no wonder that United States holds the record of
the highest documented incarceration rate in the world



Almost 3 millions americans (mostly men) are right now in jail,
most of them for so-called "crimes" which are punished
only in USA...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarcerati...ted_States

[Roosh]

Johns aren't going to get much sympathy here. I think you picked the wrong victim group.

[el mechanico]

(08-07-2013 06:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Johns aren't going to get much sympathy here. I think you picked the wrong victim group.

It's still bullshit though. I've been thinking about this lately.

My thoughts..

More whores and legal, lower the cost of ass and take a shitload of thirsty dudes out of the game. Which in turn raises the bar for American girls to compete which gives us higher quality with less work.

[el mechanico]

In other words. Flip flops will go away.

[Drazen]

America was founded by prudes. Prudes who left Europe because they hated all the kinky, steamy European sex that was going on. And now I, Cooper Harris, will return to the land of my perverted forefathers and claim my birthright... which is a series of erotic and sexually challenging adventures.

[sixsix]

(08-07-2013 06:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Johns aren't going to get much sympathy here. I think you picked the wrong victim group.

I have sympathy.

(Then again, I'm from Europe, but so are many others here.)

Why is this the wrong victim group. What would be a better one? This in particular pertains to what unifies this forum: sex, politics and society.

And this is especially relevant to you, Roosh. The prohibition of prostitution has direct and important consequences for the unfavorable sexual market place conditions you often lament about. It exemplifies the restriction of male sexual conduct, which subsequently solidifies female sexual power.

And not all Johns are pathetic losers.

Some are. But so are most guys in general. Many good reasons for going to a prostitute exist: economical, emotional, financial, social. Not everyone focuses their career on seduction and paying a small amount for sexual release might be great from a cost-benefit perspective, especially if they do not need their ego or cuddle-urge validated by conquering a chick.

I've never done it and I love the seduction even more than the sex. But I don't automatically judge men for paying for it. I judge them for being losers and that can be either the pathetic John or the non-paying dumpster diver.

In any case, the possibility of legal prostitution is positive for men. Moreover, the inhumanity of such American laws is despicable and something we should be empathetic about.

[Sherman]

Men who blame this on religious groups are barking up the wrong tree. It is the Marxist feminists in America that are waging a war against men. Putting aside the argument of whether prostitution should be legal or not, the real issue is why the prosecutor is trying to destroy these men in every way. The prosecutor, Kathleen Rice, is a Democrat. According to wikipedia, she seems like someone with real political ambitions not adverse to crushing men on her way to the top.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Rice

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(08-07-2013 06:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Johns aren't going to get much sympathy here. I think you picked the wrong victim group.

Johns per se might not deserve sympathy here. But posting their arrest pics in a public forum before they've even been tried (much less convicted) certainly should.

This is the USA. You are innocent until proven guilty. But because of this "named and shamed" tactic these men have now been convicted in the court of public opinion.

Now we need to ask: why this specific crime? Child molesters don't get this sort of treatment. Murderers and gangstas don't get a "wall of shame," even after they're convicted.

There is a thin line separating this chivalrous, White Knight BS and the anti-sex hysteria we complain about on here when it comes to feminists and their male enablers. Today it's the johns -- who will it be tomorrow and what will be the consensual "crime" they haven't been convicted of yet?

These arrests were "set ups." The police had so little to do, apparently, they took out fake ads pretending to be hookers. This is a form of entrapment.

Who was behind it all? A female district attorney named Kathleen Rice. From Wikipedia: "As of 2010, she is single and has no children."

[jimukr104]

Well its Nssau county, one of the highest income area in America , ind of makes sense they would do this.
tricks: never go to a temp hotel room. Plenty of out calls they have an apt. Also have them show you the goods and let you touch before giving money and have them touch part of you first also. Then it would be entrapment.

[Drazen]

This public shaming of men, just trying to have some sex, is troublesome. We should be free to do this, as is it a women's right to do this if she wanted to as well. 2 consenting adults in private quarters (hotel) done discretely. It doesn't harm anyone.

[pump_and_romance]

Banning prostitution is a classic feminist move.

Removing easy women from the sexual marketplace artificially raises their own sexual value.

I've never been with a prostitute but I can totally understand why a guy who's in his 40's or 50's and is not very attractive to women would like the concept. Game doesn't work when you're an old fart. You can either pull a Mark Minter or get in bed with a girl in red. I'd take the latter.

[Samseau]

(08-07-2013 07:32 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(08-07-2013 06:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Johns aren't going to get much sympathy here. I think you picked the wrong victim group.

It's still bullshit though. I've been thinking about this lately.

My thoughts..

More whores and legal, lower the cost of ass and take a shitload of thirsty dudes out of the game. Which in turn raises the bar for American girls to compete which gives us higher quality with less work.

Someone else in another thread posted a great counter-example to your argument.

In Australia, prostitution is legal, and yet Australian women aren't valued by anyone.

[Walderschmidt]

(08-07-2013 08:05 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Someone else in another thread posted a great counter-example to your argument.

In Australia, prostitution is legal, and yet Australian women aren't valued by anyone.

Be that as it may - I still think the shock to the (American) sexual market place not used the widespread availability of hookers and cheap sex would upgrade the collective quality of American women in a fortnight.

Wald

[el mechanico]

I as of today proclaim I'm a Walderschmidt fan.

[Mack Four]

(08-07-2013 08:05 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

In Australia, prostitution is legal, and yet Australian women aren't valued by anyone.

This.

Prostitution, while illegal, is rampant in South Korea. It hasn't changed the fact that Korean women some of the most dreary, miserable people on the planet. I'm not sure I saw a Korean woman in heels the entire 13 months I was there.

The immigrant chicks, though, tarted it up pretty good.

[A War You Cannot Win]

It would undoubtedly. You make prostitution legal and lift the stigma attached to it - the overall sexual power of women decreases - forcing them to step up their game to compete with beautiful women who are willing to give it up without any hassle for a small fee. It would be a beautiful thing to see the overinflated glass skyscraper egos of marginal women get obliterated overnight as the amount of free drinks at the bar dry up.

Either women adapt to the changing dynamic and hit the gym, learn manners, and develop realistic expectations for a partner or their genes fail to get passed on to the next generation and they predictably die alone, embittered, with a mewing platoon of cats that will start feasting on her corpse. It's simple.

Of course, the butter trolls can't have this because they think even though they're monstrously bloated overgrown children, their vagina is still the best thing in the world and should have complete power over men. Which is of course, complete horseshit.

[el mechanico]

I know these cunts better than what I'm able to type. Believe me when I say it (legal) would fuck their shit all up.

Anyone who has Aus links to share about this?

[Mack Four]

(08-07-2013 08:19 PM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

It would undoubtedly. You make prostitution legal and lift the stigma attached to it - the overall sexual power of women decreases - forcing them to step up their game to compete with beautiful women who are willing to give up without any hassle for a small fee.

I agree but the bolded is a tough trick to pull. America has a deep and rich history of religiosity. Add in the nouveau femeniste view that prostitution is "oppression" and you have a recipe for a logic train wreck. People are very strongly attached to their prejudices. Shame is an extremely powerful weapon that both of these factions use to scare people into submission. Such submission that to even discuss the issue of legalizing prostitution could scandalize a person.

Great idea, tough road to hoe.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

The reason prostitution is illegal in most of the US doesn't have to do with morals, religion, or women not wanting competition.

It has to do with honesty. And how it frightens some people.

Prostitution does not undercut the market for anyone. It unmasks it. It exposes sex for what it is: a transaction. If you think the wives of most celebrities or high-level executives are prostitutes in anything other than name, think again.

If you think alimony is anything other than retroactive payments on a women, you're lying to yourself. And if you think engagement rings aren't a form of "payment" for sexual services, you're kidding yourself.

We pretend not to see these things as a society because it frightens us. The hooker-john relationships expose the whole game for what it is, a sex-for-money business transaction. It's an ugly reminder, so we try to stamp it out.

Throughout history, women have traded sex for resources. Prostitution strips away the bullshit and gets to the point. Entire philosophies and religions have been designed so we don't have to see this or admit it.

PS: You don't have to like prostitution or participate in it to support what adults choose to do. I hate marijuana but think it should be legal for adults.

[J DOE]

^^A heterosexual man with a hard penis has zero prejudice against hot women offering sex at lower than cost-per-notch prices.

[CJ_W]

(08-07-2013 07:53 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

Who was behind it all? A female district attorney named Kathleen Rice. From Wikipedia: "As of 2010, she is single and has no children."

Damn, no wonder why she's so angry.

She's 48! FOURTY EIGHT years old, with NO CHILDREN.

She has FAILED biologically, and her line has been weeded out of existence!

She probably blames men and wants to get back at them for it as well.

this is insane.

I kinda think that a women who has never had kids should not hold a position of power like that, I can only imagine the baggage she must carry in being a biological failure. I have a women friend in her early 30's who "does not want kids" she seems to be on that path. If she turns like to not have kids after 35, Ill have to stop being friends with her, as she'll spend the rest of her life Jaded.

[Mack Four]

(08-07-2013 08:58 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

The reason prostitution is illegal in most of the US doesn't have to do with morals, religion, or women not wanting competition.

It has to do with honesty. And how it frightens some people.

Prostitution does not undercut the market for anyone. It unmasks it. It exposes sex for what it is: a transaction. If you think the wives of most celebrities or high-level executives are prostitutes in anything other than name, think again.

If you think alimony is anything other than retroactive payments on a women, you're lying to yourself. And if you think engagement rings aren't a form of "payment" for sexual services, you're kidding yourself.

We pretend not to see these things as a society because it frightens us. The hooker-john relationships expose the whole game for what it is, a sex-for-money business transaction. It's an ugly reminder, so we try to stamp it out.

Throughout history, women have traded sex for resources. Prostitution strips away the bullshit and gets to the point. Entire philosophies and religions have been designed so we don't have to see this or admit it.

PS: You don't have to like prostitution or participate in it to support what adults choose to do. I hate marijuana but think it should be legal for adults.

Underneath it all, yes I agree with you in principle that the intrinsic nature of prostitution has more to do with the transactional functionality of male/female relations.

But this is a discussion of law, and the law is all about the superficial realities of identity politics, i.e. being female/religious. When it comes to the law and the mechanics of changing it, this reality is unavoidable. Existential discussions are likely to prove fruitless in policy discourse.

[pump_and_romance]

CJ_W: One out of five women reach menopause without having children.

http://www.details.com/culture-trends/cr...n-breeders

It seems to be especially common nowadays with all the career women and so on. Still, I don't think that should be grounds for social punishment. If anything, society should thank them for keeping their genes to themselves. If you want to talk about pathology, everyone has it, in some way or another.

[renotime]

(08-07-2013 07:32 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(08-07-2013 06:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Johns aren't going to get much sympathy here. I think you picked the wrong victim group.

It's still bullshit though. I've been thinking about this lately.

My thoughts..

More whores and legal, lower the cost of ass and take a shitload of thirsty dudes out of the game. Which in turn raises the bar for American girls to compete which gives us higher quality with less work.

Hell, why stop there? Legalize drugs and gambling along with it nationwide.

[Beyond Borders]

(08-07-2013 10:09 PM)renotime Wrote:  

(08-07-2013 07:32 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(08-07-2013 06:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Johns aren't going to get much sympathy here. I think you picked the wrong victim group.

It's still bullshit though. I've been thinking about this lately.

My thoughts..

More whores and legal, lower the cost of ass and take a shitload of thirsty dudes out of the game. Which in turn raises the bar for American girls to compete which gives us higher quality with less work.

Hell, why stop there? Legalize drugs and gambling along with it nationwide.

I do hope you're serious because I agree with all three sentiments.

Neither drugs, prostitution, nor gambling should be illegal - and this coming from a guy who actively avoids partaking in any of them. They all represent nothing more than the government telling people how to live their lives and all cause more damage by being criminalized than they would if allowed to run their course.

Not to mention the rampant hypocrisy involved with outlawing each of these issues yet looking the other way when the government benefits from it or members of the government partake in one form or another. They're almost basic human drives and all exist in every society.