What's up with some of the dislike I've seen exhibited towards pickup artists on this site? Is it just their gimmicks and costumes that rub people the wrong way?
PUA Hate on RVF?
In 2013, pickup artist is a term reserved for "PUA" lingo slinging posers who mechanically try to take home girls rather than improve their lives. Think less evolved and more narrow-minded.
Vice-Captain - #TeamWaitAndSee
Anyone who refers to themselves as a PUA is a goober.
So if I call myself a goober, does that make me alpha?
We all started as 'PUA', maybe not?
I heard those guys talking about 'I negged her' 'I did 5 questions on her and it worked!'
It brought me the old memory![[Image: smile.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I heard those guys talking about 'I negged her' 'I did 5 questions on her and it worked!'
It brought me the old memory
Quote: (07-16-2013 09:33 PM)Sebastian Wrote:
We all started as 'PUA', maybe not?
I heard those guys talking about 'I negged her' 'I did 5 questions on her and it worked!'
It brought me the old memory
Yeah, this always confused me. Plenty of so-called PUA stuff is pretty effective and essentially identical to what's being preached here(minus the anti-feminism stuff). Tyler Durden's videos have many of the same points as Bang or Day Bang.
started from the bottom
now we here!
now we here!
Take care of those titties for me.
The word has simply fallen out of fashion, along with peacocking, and much of the lingo. You're not gonna see many guys breaking same night lays into three stages of seduction, followed by three stages of comfort, and only then three stages of seduction like Mystery of old. It's exhausting even thinking about it, actually.
But I agree with the Troubled One. Check out what Love Systems or RSD are putting out today. I'm not spending a cent on any of these guys, but there's enough available for free online to get a sense of it. Beneath the salesly schmaltz, it's not the same cheeseball stuff from the early 2000's. These guys are helping 24 year old virgins get laid. Whether they're worthwhile for more experienced guys is another matter.
The biggest difference between PUAs vs. Roosh and other guys on here is that they're out to squeeze every last dollar from the men they teach.
They'll sell you a book not for $19.95 but for $100 or more. Or try to get you to buy DVD box sets for $200 each. Or workshops costing over $2000.
It's a sorry statement about Western society today that there are young single men willing to throw away thousands of dollars on this stuff.
But I agree with the Troubled One. Check out what Love Systems or RSD are putting out today. I'm not spending a cent on any of these guys, but there's enough available for free online to get a sense of it. Beneath the salesly schmaltz, it's not the same cheeseball stuff from the early 2000's. These guys are helping 24 year old virgins get laid. Whether they're worthwhile for more experienced guys is another matter.
The biggest difference between PUAs vs. Roosh and other guys on here is that they're out to squeeze every last dollar from the men they teach.
They'll sell you a book not for $19.95 but for $100 or more. Or try to get you to buy DVD box sets for $200 each. Or workshops costing over $2000.
It's a sorry statement about Western society today that there are young single men willing to throw away thousands of dollars on this stuff.
The problem with most pick up artists in the Mystery and Neil Strauss years tend to be very blue pill.
This forum, since it is very red pill, it focuses on not only getting bangs, but being safe from the law, false rape accusations and running the female hamster, this is what PU should have been.
There is also the acknowledgement of other factors like height/looks/wealth/age and what someone who lacks in height/looks can do to compensate, like get buff and alter the way you interact where as blue pill PU info just says " looks don't matter , just dress well" which is just not true. Getting buff and getting healthy makes a huge diferent in how attracted women are to you especailly if you were not genetically blessed in height/looks.
Plus this forum just seems to have better information on how women think and uses the important well which is key unlike blue pill sourses like love systems, which tried to be extreemly politically incorrect becuase they could offend feminist.
I mean the creators appears on Dr. Phil, the biggest white knight shrink on the planet. You don't want to use that kind of product.But RVF is free and you get the truth. I mean as someone who was always red pill, could not ask for a better forum.
RVF>PUA BS like Love Systems
This forum, since it is very red pill, it focuses on not only getting bangs, but being safe from the law, false rape accusations and running the female hamster, this is what PU should have been.
There is also the acknowledgement of other factors like height/looks/wealth/age and what someone who lacks in height/looks can do to compensate, like get buff and alter the way you interact where as blue pill PU info just says " looks don't matter , just dress well" which is just not true. Getting buff and getting healthy makes a huge diferent in how attracted women are to you especailly if you were not genetically blessed in height/looks.
Plus this forum just seems to have better information on how women think and uses the important well which is key unlike blue pill sourses like love systems, which tried to be extreemly politically incorrect becuase they could offend feminist.
I mean the creators appears on Dr. Phil, the biggest white knight shrink on the planet. You don't want to use that kind of product.But RVF is free and you get the truth. I mean as someone who was always red pill, could not ask for a better forum.
RVF>PUA BS like Love Systems
Also, a lot of guys in the conventional seduction circles just lack that edge. They give off a bland, unfuckable, dancing monkey vibe. You need a shade of danger, aggressiveness, psychopathy even, to stay in the game, to be rooted and non-needy. It's easier to become that way when you see women rewarding that kind of character.
That said, Tyler Durden has some great observations, and there's a lot of great specific techniques among PUAs.
That said, Tyler Durden has some great observations, and there's a lot of great specific techniques among PUAs.
Quote: (07-16-2013 09:33 PM)Sebastian Wrote:
We all started as 'PUA', maybe not?
I heard those guys talking about 'I negged her' 'I did 5 questions on her and it worked!'
It brought me the old memory
A few years ago, about 2008 ( oh for the days before Facewhore, you could sit with a girl and she would be halfway present) I met a Russian girl who was visiting SF to "study" ( really to get out of Russia and to mythically appealing SF. A hot Russian chick has massive value in SF.)
She told me about a bunch of guys approaching her in that little park where the bookstore (gone) and Saks 5th Avenue (may still be) were and doing The Cube on her.
She was laughing when we talked about it. I asked her if it bothered her that all these guys were using it on her. She didn't seem to mind at all.
I got her over my house and tried to make out with her. She used the corpse technique. I hadn't heard Roosh's advice on this and thought I was disgusting her or something and stopped. IN hindsight, I think the difference between an American chick that wants you to stop and a Slavic girl that is being honest about the fact she isn't turned on--yet-- is that the American will stiffen up, you can feel it. The Russian just waits for you to kiss and stroke her enough so she starts to like it.
Quote: (07-17-2013 12:10 AM)basilransom Wrote:
Also, a lot of guys in the conventional seduction circles just lack that edge. They give off a bland, unfuckable, dancing monkey vibe. You need a shade of danger, aggressiveness, psychopathy even, to stay in the game, to be rooted and non-needy. It's easier to become that way when you see women rewarding that kind of character.
That said, Tyler Durden has some great observations, and there's a lot of great specific techniques among PUAs.
Exactly. The weird clown fucker PUA's are impossible to relate to, but the RSD guys are pretty cool. Out of all my external influences, my wings have probably had the most noticeable effect on my game, but Tyler Durden and Julien from RSD come a close second.
Roosh is of course far superior when it comes to lifestyle and self-improvement, but I believe these guys are the best resource when it comes to raw game.
Quote: (07-17-2013 01:06 AM)The Troubled One Wrote:
Exactly. The weird clown fucker PUA's are impossible to relate to, but the RSD guys are pretty cool. Out of all my external influences, my wings have probably had the most noticeable effect on my game, but Tyler Durden and Julien from RSD come a close second.
Roosh is of course far superior when it comes to lifestyle and self-improvement, but I believe these guys are the best resource when it comes to raw game.
I think Tyler and Julian are sort of genetic freaks, in a good sense for pickup. Their presentation borders on mania and women are bowled over.
In Roosh's videos he seems much more like a thoughtful person who isn't insanely excited about situations.
As always, I don't think personal style matters, it's how much you approach.
It's like playing scales on a musical instrument. As Segovia said about doing it on guitar, playing scales will unavoidably cure physical problems of technique. You can't play them if you do it wrong.
As far as soulfulness of tone, he basically said you've either got it or you don't.
I still think Mystery Method is the best resource for someone who is completely clueless about how the mating game works. I'm talking about the male virgin in his 20s who still hasn't been on a date yet. The strength of the method is that it tells you exactly what to do and it what order to do it. What's one of the most common problems we hear from inexperienced would be players? "Oh I just didn't know what to say/do next." I'm guessing most people here probably did manage to stumble into a few hook ups and relationships even before they ever heard of the manosphere but there really is a good number of people who don't even know how to begin to interact with a female in a social setting and these are the people that need their hand held rather then be thrown into the deep end of the pool.
It's better to have a very exact game plan then to not have one at all. Of course, it's even better to be able to flow naturally without having to remember "Oh I have 3 IOIs I should go for a kiss now" but it takes a while to that point.
It's better to have a very exact game plan then to not have one at all. Of course, it's even better to be able to flow naturally without having to remember "Oh I have 3 IOIs I should go for a kiss now" but it takes a while to that point.
The Mystery Method totally works...for Mystery.
He spent years developing a method that worked...for him.
It was cohesive, because it was his.
However, it is sheer lunacy to suggest that someone could quickly improve their skills just based on Mystery's teachings.
Significantly improving your skills with the ladies takes a lot of work.
It is a challenge.
Mystery was able to achieve success because he put lots and lots of work into it and found what worked for him.
What is different about the RVF approach is that we don't really subscribe to an approach.
We subscribe to a knowledge base.
This makes what we teach accessible to more dudes.
Mystery's magic show techniques and crazy dress would work for a few guys, but not most. It wasn't exactly accessible.
To be fair, however, the Mystery Method's A to C to S approach has been a valuable resource to me in understanding how the battle of the sexes takes place.
He spent years developing a method that worked...for him.
It was cohesive, because it was his.
However, it is sheer lunacy to suggest that someone could quickly improve their skills just based on Mystery's teachings.
Significantly improving your skills with the ladies takes a lot of work.
It is a challenge.
Mystery was able to achieve success because he put lots and lots of work into it and found what worked for him.
What is different about the RVF approach is that we don't really subscribe to an approach.
We subscribe to a knowledge base.
This makes what we teach accessible to more dudes.
Mystery's magic show techniques and crazy dress would work for a few guys, but not most. It wasn't exactly accessible.
To be fair, however, the Mystery Method's A to C to S approach has been a valuable resource to me in understanding how the battle of the sexes takes place.
I'm the King of Beijing!
Quote:Quote:
However, it is sheer lunacy to suggest that someone could quickly improve their skills just based on Mystery's teachings.
Significantly improving your skills with the ladies takes a lot of work.
It is a challenge.
Just out of curiousity, what counts as "quickly"? And what counts as "improve"?
I'll post my advancement just for comparison:
Age 19: virgin (never kissed too), completely clueless, impossible to get a number, let alone a date. Smart and kind (often described as "such a nice guy"), but shy and frail. Completely invisible to girls.
Age 20: changed my style completely to a much better one, became more confident and outgoing, started working out and eating healthy. No dates at all. Some numbers that invariably ended up as friendzones.
Age 21: cautiously began learning about seduction from a few mild internet sources like "Practical happiness" (lots of good advice from this arkady guy, just not structured like game, and still rather mild comapred to what women actually require, but it's a start). First cold approach. Started getting a few numbers, went on two dates. Still a virgin (no kiss yet either).
Age 22: started reading Heartiste a lot, as well as some Roosh, began internalizing basic game concepts. Became able to put things like Agree & Amplify into use, approach and become competent at kino (touching). Body language a lot stronger. Online dating improved through trial and error. First relationship with a girl from social circle, first kiss, lost virginity. She used me horribly and I almost killed myself. Looking back, it was an excellent experience because I overcame many hurdles and learned a lot, and was hurt enough to seriously dive into game, but not so hurt to become bitter and misogynist. Dates, kissing and sex stopped being a mystery.
Age 23: After the breakup, dived back into dating and discovered it wasn't so easy after all. Number harvesting and conversion to dates stalled. Initial sense of power gone, depressed. Bought Bang and began following Roosh, improved my game, internalized good body language, became outgoing at will, but still only a few dates, only one of which led to sex. Began realizing how much work it really is to make these final advances towards success, and began aware of things limiting me (like height) and how to compensate for it with more game. Traveled a lot and learned another language.
Age 24: began following Dalrock and Social Pathologist, became proficient at most game techniques. After some more hurdles and a lot of approaching (both night/day/online), began getting successes. Had a few more short relationships and one-night stands. Adopted the abundance mentality. Started a game/red pill blog and started earning money from other sources.
Age 25: became adept at all aspects of game. Developed a killer instinct. Learned to leverage my natural talents for things like palm reading. Getting numbers became completely routine rather than chance, and converting them to dates and successfuly closing became consistent. Overcame most of my approach anxiety. Felt secure and happy. After a few more whirlwind experiences, got into a relationship with a nice girl and have been enjoying it for two years now. Currently focusing on building passive game like muscle and money for financial independence.
Age 26+:
???
PROFIT!
As you can see, it took me 6 years in small, incremental steps to become a quality player. I went from absolute bottom to a state much better than the average man. Even though I made many improvements at first, they never led to anything greater than a phone number until I actually learned game (looking back, this doesn't surprise me at all - there are many tall, good-looking and popular guys who never get anywhere with women).
I learned basic game by osmosis - a long period of light reading, then some practicing, then more reading, and so on. I am not a social butterfly and even now don't really like going out to clubs (even though I've been successful there). Over time, I began to examine most male-female relations from a red-pill point of view, and this really helped me to learn just by observation. Then I would go out into the real world and see that it wasn't at all as easy as I imagined, but it wouldn't take me long to improve because I would know what to work on. I think this is a good approach to learning game because it's natural and blends easily into your life. If I was constantly going out and practicing, I would have probably advanced faster, but maybe I would have also gotten discouraged by it being "too much effort". This can easily overwhelm inexperienced guys and I have seen it several times already.
Just to point out, each advancement, year to year (heck, even month to month), made me very happy. When I first got a number, even though it didn't lead anywhere, I was downright ecstatic. Of course, later I got depressed by seeing how much you have to know to get further than that, but that's the reality of the sexual market. Once one accepts it, it is these small successes that push him forward because each represents a new achievement that had seemed impossible before. And one day, you just open your eyes and nod in approval at how far you've come.
That is the final objective: to know you'll never be alone or used again. You're independent, and that is the greatest prize of all.
"Imagine" by HCE | Hitler reacts to Battle of Montreal | An alternative use for squid that has never crossed your mind before
Quote:Quote:
Age 22: started reading Heartiste a lot, as well as some Roosh, began internalizing basic game concepts. Became able to put things like Agree & Amplify into use, approach and become competent at kino (touching). Body language a lot stronger. Online dating improved through trial and error. First relationship with a girl from social circle, first kiss, lost virginity. She used me horribly and I almost killed myself. Looking back, it was an excellent experience because I overcame many hurdles and learned a lot, and was hurt enough to seriously dive into game, but not so hurt to become bitter and misogynist. Dates, kissing and sex stopped being a mystery.
Can you expand on this? Thanks.
Quote: (07-17-2013 05:54 AM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:
Quote:Quote:
Age 22: started reading Heartiste a lot, as well as some Roosh, began internalizing basic game concepts. Became able to put things like Agree & Amplify into use, approach and become competent at kino (touching). Body language a lot stronger. Online dating improved through trial and error. First relationship with a girl from social circle, first kiss, lost virginity. She used me horribly and I almost killed myself. Looking back, it was an excellent experience because I overcame many hurdles and learned a lot, and was hurt enough to seriously dive into game, but not so hurt to become bitter and misogynist. Dates, kissing and sex stopped being a mystery.
Can you expand on this? Thanks.
Here it is in a bit more detail, although not much more
![[Image: tongue.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
"Imagine" by HCE | Hitler reacts to Battle of Montreal | An alternative use for squid that has never crossed your mind before
Pickup artists are often criticized for being (to some degree) socially retarded. They wore attention-grabbing gay ass clothes, no style, were often fat slobs, and would walk into bars and nightclubs, pay the cover charge, and stay sober the entire night while they approached sets.
They had great insights into the psychology of female sexuality (compared to anyone before it was phenomenal, really) and started the ball rolling on quantifying female attraction and how to quantify male attraction into game tactics. The game community owes them an enormous debt because these guys clearly did not fuck around in terms of doing approaches. They were blue pill in ways but red pill in that a quality pussy-destroying gamesman can be made, and need not be born a natural.
It's sort of like comparing modern metal to glam metal in the 80s, you just have to cringe a little bit.
They had great insights into the psychology of female sexuality (compared to anyone before it was phenomenal, really) and started the ball rolling on quantifying female attraction and how to quantify male attraction into game tactics. The game community owes them an enormous debt because these guys clearly did not fuck around in terms of doing approaches. They were blue pill in ways but red pill in that a quality pussy-destroying gamesman can be made, and need not be born a natural.
It's sort of like comparing modern metal to glam metal in the 80s, you just have to cringe a little bit.
Quote: (07-17-2013 11:38 AM)Hades Wrote:
Pickup artists are often criticized for being (to some degree) socially retarded. They wore attention-grabbing gay ass clothes, no style, were often fat slobs, and would walk into bars and nightclubs, pay the cover charge, and stay sober the entire night while they approached sets.
They had great insights into the psychology of female sexuality (compared to anyone before it was phenomenal, really) and started the ball rolling on quantifying female attraction and how to quantify male attraction into game tactics. The game community owes them an enormous debt because these guys clearly did not fuck around in terms of doing approaches. They were blue pill in ways but red pill in that a quality pussy-destroying gamesman can be made, and need not be born a natural.
It's sort of like comparing modern metal to glam metal in the 80s, you just have to cringe a little bit.
What's wrong with 80's glam metal? Or being sexy?
![[Image: tumblr_kxncjxpYdk1qatcyao1_400.jpg]](https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kxncjxpYdk1qatcyao1_400.jpg)
There's a guy on there that pretends to be Roosh's mom and hates on the Gmanifesto.
http://puahate.com/member.php?u=11003
http://puahate.com/member.php?u=11003
Quote: (07-17-2013 01:12 PM)el mechanico Wrote:
There's a guy on there that pretends to be Roosh's mom and hates on the Gmanifesto.
http://puahate.com/member.php?u=11003
i lol'd at some of those...nice find.
Quote: (07-17-2013 01:12 PM)el mechanico Wrote:
There's a guy on there that pretends to be Roosh's mom and hates on the Gmanifesto.
http://puahate.com/member.php?u=11003
Lol she got a list from the G Manifesto's mom about why he sometimes is incognito
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