[TooFineAPoint]

There are definitely some cases of emperor-no-clothes, but folks need to remember that reading a good book can sometimes be a difficult experience ("great books are as hard to read as they are to write"), and the gap between expectations and reality or the author's radical way to examine a thing you felt you already knew can be offputting.

Let the thing slosh around in your mind for a few years and see if it doesn't pop back out of your subconscious again.

Nearly half of my favorite works of art were things I immediately wanted to dismiss. Then I found, after a while, I would be thinking of them. When I re-watched, re-listened, re-read these things, I found a new appreciation for them.

If you tasted a refined, aged wine and compared it to a pleasing young offering, you might be tempted to dismiss all pricing and classifications as snobbery. But the more you develop your palate, the more you realize why some things rise to the top and maintain status over time (not all things, but a lot of them).

[jeffers]

(04-18-2017 09:51 PM)Alsos Wrote:  

"Slaughterhouse 5". Read it because it was based on Vonnegut's experiences in the firebombing of Dresden. Ended up concluding that Vonnegut was an overhyped charlatan and never read another of his works. (And about a month later, saw him speak at my university, during which event he passionately praised Morris Dees of SPLC as a "living saint".)

If you thought Slaughterhouse Five was bad, well, Breakfast of Champions was worse.

[Thrill Jackson]

Im going to get a lot of shit for this but Gorilla Mindset isn't great to me at all.

It just seems like a bunch of random blog posts meshed together in a book.

If you read self help books regularly you probably know 90% of whats in that book already.

[TigerMandingo]

(04-19-2017 08:56 AM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

Im going to get a lot of shit for this but Gorilla Mindset isn't great to me at all.

It just seems like a bunch of random blog posts meshed together in a book.

If you read self help books regularly you probably know 90% of whats in that book already.

[Huey]

Think and Grow Rich. Extremely overrated.

[Chris Brown]

What about Act like a Lady, Think like a man. Overrated?

[Stirfry]

(04-19-2017 08:00 AM)jeffers Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 09:51 PM)Alsos Wrote:  

"Slaughterhouse 5". Read it because it was based on Vonnegut's experiences in the firebombing of Dresden. Ended up concluding that Vonnegut was an overhyped charlatan and never read another of his works. (And about a month later, saw him speak at my university, during which event he passionately praised Morris Dees of SPLC as a "living saint".)

If you thought Slaughterhouse Five was bad, well, Breakfast of Champions was worse.

Vonnegut's best work was "Cat's Cradle." I highly recommend it.

[Hypno]

(04-18-2017 09:51 PM)Alsos Wrote:  

"Slaughterhouse 5". Read it because it was based on Vonnegut's experiences in the firebombing of Dresden. Ended up concluding that Vonnegut was an overhyped charlatan and never read another of his works. (And about a month later, saw him speak at my university, during which event he passionately praised Morris Dees of SPLC as a "living saint".)

You should give his short story Harrison Bergeron a chance, definitely red pill and ahead of its time.

Another nominee - Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness. Now, Apocalypse Now was cool and based on this book, but I found it hard to read and follow. Paragraphs that go on forever.

[Alsos]

Yeah, I always forget that he wrote Harrison Bergeron. Unfortunately, my experience with Slaughterhouse 5, the noxious speech I attended, and the general cultishness surrounding him puts me off reading anything more by the guy.

That and reading synopses of his other work, and getting this vibe that (like S5) it's pretentiously weird "experimental" garbage soaked in nihilism.

Plus, exactly like John Scalzi, he strikes me as a detestable gamma male. He repulses me.

[brob]

Currently reading The Sun Also Rises by Hemingway.

Boring as shit but I'm trying to make myself like it. I've read articles on how to best enjoy the book since it's lacking in plot and is definitely not a page-turner. Apparently you're supposed to just focus on the "gritty details" of the Lost Generation of WWI vets and not care that there really is no plot to the book. That's all fine and dandy but damn this book is nothing but people just going to cafes and restaurants and eating and drinking and pontificating. No real substance to the book but I'm hoping it picks up.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

Dune, by Frank Herbert. Actually, the first novel is not so bad, but all the sequels are just ridiculous. The premise is that future human society has evolved such that all social interactions have many, many layers of depth and hidden meaning. I've heard that the Byzantine courts were like this, with layers and layers of twisty intrigue always going on, worse than any soap opera.

So, in the Dune series, the author is constantly trying to convey all the layers of meaning that underlie a surface explanation of what each character says or does in a scene, and usually each character has his own separate set of layers and meanings that all have to be broken down.

Combine this with the way Leto turns into a giant god-like worm that can see the future (yeah, I just typed that sentence), and you have a book that just doesn't work for me.

[Bluto]

I read these four in English AP Class and never looked at them since for good reason:

Beloved - At the time, I expected more from a Princeton Professor, now I know better.

The Awakening - Already mentioned

Their Eyes Were Watching God - I should have changed English Classes after having that for summer reading.

Black Boy - Already Mentioned

Problem that I see is that an author can be either entertaining or thought provoking/philosophical. Rarely do you get both. Everyone who is considered to be a "serious" author these days, like the authors of the books above, is trying to write something prolific or philosophical. For me they fail in being prolific and end up as boring, predictable, or satirical. Nor do they really provide much in the form of entertainment. As I am not forced to read anything that I don't want any more, I will be reading what entertains me. I would note that entertaining is not necessary easy reads. I am currently reading "Master and Commander," and while entertaining for me, this series is written at a level that I would consider to be more difficult than the four mentioned above given the general vocabulary and subtleness of O'Brien's writing. As challenging as this series is, I doubt that you will ever see this in English Class, unless you go to a Military School.

[Chris Brown]

^Do you mean the Awakening by David Duke?

[Bluto]

Nope I mean The Awakening by Kate Chopin. Hannibal has done the synopsis on it.

(04-09-2016 01:48 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  

The Awakening by some dipshit feminist writer Kate Chopin. I could tell a woman wrote this because there was no point, no plot, no personal growth or character development, and everyone else in the story was simply expected to cater to the protagonists' wishes or fill some gap in the story to explain away her shitty behavior.

So the manservant guy she had a crush on, well that was because he was really attractive in ways her husband was not (even though she's basically fucking the poolboy at this point).

The bohemian artist who lives in an attic and paints pictures? Well, she's a representation of how deep the main character must be to associate with free spirits like her.

The town rake who takes her out to the horse races? She likes an adventure and a risk (didn't know gambling with someone else's money was risky, but whatever).

Seriously, she's a stay at home mom with all these servants, a couple kids, and all her needs and wants catered to, yet she's still not haaaaappy so she decides to leave and slut it up with the town rake at the horse races. The entire time I was reading this story, I kept asking "Where the fuck is the husband in all this? Why aren't the kids saying anything about how their mother doesn't give a shit about them?"

Check this out.

Quote:

"Edna felt an indescribable oppression which seemed to generate in some unfamiliar part of her consciousness, filled her whole being with a vague anguish."

I've read amateur smut better than this. Why did I have to read this shit in English class? It sucks dick.

At the end of this nonstory, she still doesn't know what she wants so she drowns herself in the lake, the only real action she took during the entire shitty novel. Everyone reading this in English class was supposed to come to this great enlightenment about how she's oppressed or whatever when she really could not be more privileged in any respect.

[Alsos]

(04-22-2017 08:59 AM)Bluto Wrote:  

Nope I mean The Awakening by Kate Chopin. Hannibal has done the synopsis on it.

(04-09-2016 01:48 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  

The Awakening by some dipshit feminist writer Kate Chopin. I could tell a woman wrote this because there was no point, no plot, no personal growth or character development, and everyone else in the story was simply expected to cater to the protagonists' wishes or fill some gap in the story to explain away her shitty behavior.

So the manservant guy she had a crush on, well that was because he was really attractive in ways her husband was not (even though she's basically fucking the poolboy at this point).

The bohemian artist who lives in an attic and paints pictures? Well, she's a representation of how deep the main character must be to associate with free spirits like her.

The town rake who takes her out to the horse races? She likes an adventure and a risk (didn't know gambling with someone else's money was risky, but whatever).

Seriously, she's a stay at home mom with all these servants, a couple kids, and all her needs and wants catered to, yet she's still not haaaaappy so she decides to leave and slut it up with the town rake at the horse races. The entire time I was reading this story, I kept asking "Where the fuck is the husband in all this? Why aren't the kids saying anything about how their mother doesn't give a shit about them?"

Check this out.

Quote:

"Edna felt an indescribable oppression which seemed to generate in some unfamiliar part of her consciousness, filled her whole being with a vague anguish."

I've read amateur smut better than this. Why did I have to read this shit in English class? It sucks dick.

At the end of this nonstory, she still doesn't know what she wants so she drowns herself in the lake, the only real action she took during the entire shitty novel. Everyone reading this in English class was supposed to come to this great enlightenment about how she's oppressed or whatever when she really could not be more privileged in any respect.

I read that book in high school, too. Back then it was called "Madame Bovary", but it still sucked.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Madame_Bovary

("Dipshit feminist writer" not only can't come up with a new story to tell, but is so obvious in her theft that the source is immediately recognizable.)

[Bluto]

(04-22-2017 09:43 AM)Alsos Wrote:  

I read that book in high school, too. Back then it was called "Madame Bovary", but it still sucked.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Madame_Bovary

("Dipshit feminist writer" not only can't come up with a new story to tell, but is so obvious in her theft that the source is immediately recognizable.)

I never read "Madam Bovary" but good to know. Did the character in "Madam Bovary" commit suicide by drowning herself in the lake as well?

[Mage]

(04-21-2017 05:00 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  

Dune, by Frank Herbert. Actually, the first novel is not so bad, but all the sequels are just ridiculous. The premise is that future human society has evolved such that all social interactions have many, many layers of depth and hidden meaning. I've heard that the Byzantine courts were like this, with layers and layers of twisty intrigue always going on, worse than any soap opera.

So, in the Dune series, the author is constantly trying to convey all the layers of meaning that underlie a surface explanation of what each character says or does in a scene, and usually each character has his own separate set of layers and meanings that all have to be broken down.

Combine this with the way Leto turns into a giant god-like worm that can see the future (yeah, I just typed that sentence), and you have a book that just doesn't work for me.

Dune is mostly famous because of the videogames which although old and dated are great and the movie which is good but not great.

[Cattle Rustler]

Not famous but known among the manosphere:

Gorilla Mindset.

[Alsos]

(04-22-2017 12:42 PM)Bluto Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 09:43 AM)Alsos Wrote:  

I read that book in high school, too. Back then it was called "Madame Bovary", but it still sucked.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Madame_Bovary

("Dipshit feminist writer" not only can't come up with a new story to tell, but is so obvious in her theft that the source is immediately recognizable.)

I never read "Madam Bovary" but good to know. Did the character in "Madam Bovary" commit suicide by drowning herself in the lake as well?

Arsenic.

I thought it was something more dramatic, but I was thinking of "Anna Karenina" apparently (she jumps in front of a train). We read that at the about the same time.

Thinking back, The Book of Job, Heart of Darkness, the Metamorphosis, and some Virginia Woolf trash were on the list, too. Seems a bit ghoulish and morbid for a high-school syllabus. Makes me wonder about the teacher.

[Chris Brown]

Madam Bovary the movie is good.

[weambulance]

Well, I don't know how famous it is in the general population but I just tried reading John C. Wright's Somewhither, which won the Dragon Award last year for best science fiction novel.

I'm about 20% in and the pacing is just awful. Perhaps 10 pages worth of stuff have actually happened including justifiable exposition, but that's spread out into ~80 pages because the narrator (first person teenager) can't shut the fuck up. He takes one action, then talks about it for three pages. Takes another action, more yap yap yap. It's intolerable. What should be a fast paced melee scene takes like forty pages to grind through because he details everything down to the textures of the enemy's weapons.

--mild spoiler alert--

The reviews of this book puzzle me because so many people call it "fast paced adventure". What? Dude talked to his dad a bit, drove a jeep, fired two shots from a rifle, got sucked into a wormhole, killed a guy with a sword, and that's where I am. 20% of the book. Whether you like the amazingly verbose style or not, in no world is that "fast paced".

I'm not a fan of the weeb element either, though this is more a personal nitpick. Why would an order of Christian knights that goes back to the high middle ages at least use Japanese martial arts, apparently taught with Japanese terms? That's idiotic. It would make as much sense for the scion of an ancient clan of samurai to dust off a claymore and put on a kilt for battle.

The motherfucking katana is the most overused weapon in the history of fiction. It's so overhyped, and there's so much misinformation about the mystical katana, that I have started to cringe every time it shows up in fiction because I know what comes next is probably going to be mindbendingly retarded. I would be thrilled to never see it again in a story that doesn't involve an actual Japanese guy, or the actual Japanese islands.

The blurb sounded great. This story could've been amazing. Oh well.

[Bluto]

(04-23-2017 12:41 PM)Alsos Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 12:42 PM)Bluto Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 09:43 AM)Alsos Wrote:  

I read that book in high school, too. Back then it was called "Madame Bovary", but it still sucked.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Madame_Bovary

("Dipshit feminist writer" not only can't come up with a new story to tell, but is so obvious in her theft that the source is immediately recognizable.)

I never read "Madam Bovary" but good to know. Did the character in "Madam Bovary" commit suicide by drowning herself in the lake as well?

Arsenic.

I thought it was something more dramatic, but I was thinking of "Anna Karenina" apparently (she jumps in front of a train). We read that at the about the same time.

Thinking back, The Book of Job, Heart of Darkness, the Metamorphosis, and some Virginia Woolf trash were on the list, too. Seems a bit ghoulish and morbid for a high-school syllabus. Makes me wonder about the teacher.

I avoid going down that rabbit hole.

[Chris Brown]

Your opinions on Prince Machiavelli, Sun Tzus Art of War and Mein Kampf. Overrated?

[Sextus Empiricus]

(04-25-2017 03:36 AM)Chris Brown Wrote:  

Your opinions on Prince Machiavelli, Sun Tzus Art of War and Mein Kampf. Overrated?

Never read Sun Tzu, but I always thought the Prince was a little bit overrated. But I think it's less that it's a sucky book, and more that the advice is no longer as novel or pertinent.

I think one of the reasons we think famous books sucked or are overrated is that back in their time they were very revolutionary and changed people's thinking, but now we take their ideas for granted, so we don't see anything profound in them.

For example, back in Machiavelli's day, the typical advice for princes was to be virtuous and trust in God, so when he said that the world was cutthroat and you have to be wily and strategic and ruthless to survive in politics it was scandalous and shocking.

But now, you have down-to-earth business books or Robert Greene's 48 laws of power (or even a TV show like House of Cards) that say more or less the same thing. Many people may still say they're immoral, or unethical, but most people accept that there are certain harsh realities of power.

So now you have books like the 48 Laws of Power with the same ideas as Machiavelli, but presented in a modern format more applicable to our daily lives. Because of that, if you go back to Machiavelli, his advice seems rather ordinary, somewhat outdated and his examples aren't as easily accessible.

That being said, The Prince is a good quick read for history/culture. It's less than a hundred pages, you can finish it in a weekend, and you'll still learn something from it.

[El Padrone]

Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time fantasy volumes. A disgraceful volume promoting feminist tripe.

The Return of the Godfather and The Revenge of the Godfather. Mario Puzo's iconic characters were butchered by limp wristed talentless hacks.

As an aside, I found The Godfather movies quite bland.