[xsplat]

(07-04-2013 09:02 PM)Laner Wrote:  

Quote:

Step one, 3 d printer. Any recommendations?

The Makerbot Replicator 2 that I mentioned earlier.

We have been using it quite a bit in the last 6 months and its great.

I want one just because it's cool. But I know that's wrong; I should justify it financially. That's why I need someone to put it to use profitably.

What have you been using it for?

I could also contact all the wedding planners in Indo and make custom wedding cake toppers. Just like anywhere else, weddings are a means to display wealth, and so they are deliberately ostentatious; people are looking to NOT save money.

[xsplat]

People like to spend money on:
weddings and wedding rings
pets
obsessive hobbies
jewelry and other displays of taste, class, and wealth

This guys obsession is his firearm:


Anyone care to brainstorm with me? What do people like to customize and spend money on?

I'd imagine that with a CNC router you could carve bas reliefs of people and their pets, or erotica, or custom erotica including peoples pets.

Imagine that your shop has:
1) 3 axis cnc router
2) 3d printer
3) small foundry capable of casting silver, aluminum, and even steel

And that you have trained and experienced jewelry making staff who work at competitive rates, working in a low overhead environment.

Machining equipment could also be possible, including a CNC lathe.

Update: Oh, and women often have their kitchen and bathrooms as their obsession. Kitchen cabinetry is a big business, but I have no ideas how CNC customizing could be applied to that industry. I know carved wooden doors are a big thing in Indonesia - I want to duplicate those with CNC and compete on price. Could work also for western markets - but what's the gimmick for customizing a house front door?

With high lead times shipping costs even for heavy and bulky items could be competitive, using sea freight by the container load to consolidate orders to ship to a warehouse that would disburse them. That could work for doors, for instance, and customers would expect a 3 month lead time.

[Beyond Borders]

(07-03-2013 01:54 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

I just hope they find a cure for baldness before my hair starts falling out

Don't worry bro - I'm sure they'll figure out a way to put it back in too.

[xsplat]

Allright, I've decided to take the plunge. It seems that I could get a 3D printer comparable in output to the makerbot2 from China delivered to me in Indonesia for under $1000. I'm calling that mad money, and so don't have to justify it with commercial income from it. I have some personal jewelry projects to use it for to start, and then I'll trust that time will put it to use, and it won't sit in the corner like a bread machine.

But I could use some help picking one. Alibaba lists a great many different ones. If someone could help me choose, I'd try to make it up for you some how - perhaps by sending you some prints from the machine.

http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=...3d+printer

HELP!

[xsplat]

Actually, aliexpress may be the better place to buy from, as it's a single quantity piece.

http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?Sear...d=0&catId=

and here's one for $760, including shipping, with a single extruder (some have two for two color printing) and a max 12 cm X 12 X 12 output. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cheap-3d-...70289.html



I'm looking at ones with dual extruders and 225*145*150(High) mm output and they seem to run from about $900-$1300, some with free shipping others shipping extra.

[xsplat]

Well, this one seems ok. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3d-printe...4984.html. It's the Wanhao Duplicator 4 pictured above. Delivered to me would cost US$1050.00

Unless someone here slaps me in the face, I'll pay for it tomorrow.

Next step, foundry equipment, silver ingots, and gold plating stuff. That way my custom gold rings and amulets can get swiped from me in dark third world back alleys and I'll shrug it off; all my equipment plus cost of materials will have cost less than a stolen solid gold ring, and anything will be easily replaceable and backed up with dupes.

In fact I could hand out customized gold plated rings like candy.

Plus of course the coolness factor, which I'm obviously way hyped up about.

Oh, and I've decided on the customized product to sell and the marketing plan for it, both for domestic and international markets. We expect to get some free national TV coverage here in Indo, but if not regional is close to guaranteed.

[Laner]

Quote:

Anyone care to brainstorm with me? What do people like to customize and spend money on?

Jewelry is a big one for sure. My dad gets custom puzzle rings made for himself in the middle east. Very expensive, but done in the traditional way. 3D is a way of "selling the prototype". Plus with rendering programs there is no doubt about the look of the end product. This is very useful. And since you are designing the ring, part or whatever using modeling software, just throw it into keyshot or whatever for a photo realistic rendering.

Quote:

I'd imagine that with a CNC router you could carve bas reliefs of people and their pets, or erotica, or custom erotica including peoples pets.

I used CNC milling and laser to do custom inlay on corporate branding literature. Custom binders, annual reports, thank you gifts, promotions, etc. This was a decent niche for a number of years.

Quote:

Imagine that your shop has:
1) 3 axis cnc router
2) 3d printer
3) small foundry capable of casting silver, aluminum, and even steel

And that you have trained and experienced jewelry making staff who work at competitive rates, working in a low overhead environment.

This sounds like the starter set up for an industrial design studio! I have built these studios, and owned one as well.

Quote:

Machining equipment could also be possible, including a CNC lathe.

This is where it gets expensive. Milling equipment, even non-CNC is expensive. And dirty. I outsourced this. Get the steel delivered to the waterjet cutter, sent to the CNC brake then sent to my studio where I would fabricate (weld, polish, tap, etc) then send out for powder coating.

I played with powder coating and its easy but again, messy. Its a cheap process and not worth the hassle.

Quote:

Update: Oh, and women often have their kitchen and bathrooms as their obsession. Kitchen cabinetry is a big business, but I have no ideas how CNC customizing could be applied to that industry. I know carved wooden doors are a big thing in Indonesia - I want to duplicate those with CNC and compete on price. Could work also for western markets - but what's the gimmick for customizing a house front door?

My brother does this. It all falls under Joinery or Cabinetmaker. Nothing new here really, but you are right, there is a lot of money in custom kitchens and bathrooms.

Go for the Duplicator 4, as it seems to be knockoff of the Makerbot. A lot of Makerbot has been open source from the beginning so maybe the quality is the same? Made in the USA demands a certain premium these days.

You will want the dual extruders. As the printers continue to use different filaments the possibilities increase. Rubber/Plastic?

Quote:

What have you been using it for?

All sorts of stuff. Started out as custom avatar character toys for hardcore gamers. Not worth it (yet). But now its used for "lost wax" molds, or even the molds themselves if using an epoxy. Watches are a good one for these machines. You can really get the feel of the design before sending it away.

Anything undercut is perfect for 3D printers as well.

[Muk]

there are easier/ cheaper ways to gold plate jewelry, than a $1000 3d printer.

[xsplat]

(07-05-2013 02:15 PM)Muk Wrote:  

there are easier/ cheaper ways to gold plate jewelry, than a $1000 3d printer.

I assume you meant "to make gold plated jewelry"

As one example, imagine a client wanted their corporate logo modelled into various sized pendants and rings. For the pendants they wanted the logo as a 3-d cutout - not a stamp onto a coin.

With the printer the modeling for the client could be done in software, and when approved, various sizes could be printed out. These would be used in the molds.

How could that be done cheaper without a 3-d printer? How could it be done at all without a 3-d printer? You'd have to rely on the old fashioned technique of carving waxes. Perhaps cheaper but only for the first few items.

And if you wanted to do 3-d figurines of people, the printer would very quickly pay for itself, and give photorealistic figurines without having to search for skilled and expensive artists.

[xsplat]

Turns out the decision for a printer is a bit more complicated than I thought at my first enthusiastic glance.

The printer above that I'd been considering only prints at 40mm/s.

This one http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3D-Printe...34588.html is a dual extruder model with the same print output size that prints at >100mm/s US $1,128.95 delivered.

While this one http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Ship...96384.html is a single extruder model and prints at from 150 to 300mm/s and can print the biggest size of any of them - 21 by 21 by 21 - good for larger globes. US $1,189.09 delivered.

Printing at 4 times the speed could be equal to buying 4 printers, if it is being used at full capacity for custom work, plus it would help with tight deadlines.

All models only print in ABS filament or PLA filament, as far as I understand, however it might be possible to put nylon in them too, as some claim that would work. In any case I can't imagine why of the options available to put in it I would not always choose PLA.

So I'm now considering the fastest one with the largest print output, even though it's only a single extruder.

As I don't plan to compete in selling plastic models (too much competition with too little retail per piece), but instead in selling castings, this would make more financial sense. Also painting of the plastics is possible, and perhaps even preferable for most items that I'd want to have color detail, such as figurines that I'd insert magnets into float over a magnetic levitation device (some newer AC powered models don't require rotation of the floating object).

For those interested, the PLA filament can be had for less than 1/2 price delivered than sold through makerbot if purchased from China; about $20/kilo delivered versus $45 without delivery.

[xsplat]

(07-05-2013 01:40 PM)Laner Wrote:  

Quote:

What have you been using it for?

All sorts of stuff. Started out as custom avatar character toys for hardcore gamers. Not worth it (yet). But now its used for "lost wax" molds, or even the molds themselves if using an epoxy. Watches are a good one for these machines. You can really get the feel of the design before sending it away.

That's fascinating. I find fabrication using these high tech equipments not only high on the cool factor, but have great respect for the entrepreneurial spirit and actions involved in that trade. Great job. There are a great many skills you must have had to develop, from artistic to technical to marketing to managing to financial to people skills. Surely one route to learning a natural sense of authority also.

I'd love to learn more of what you are and were doing, but of course I'd appreciate that business details are most usually kept quiet for business reasons. Perhaps we could work out some trading of value by PM. I could imagine paying for business ideas implemented, and already greatly appreciate the tip of working for corporate clients on a portfolio of products for their logos. That's a fantastic and very valuable idea. In hindsight it might seem obvious - but that's just a character of brilliant ideas. It's possible you've contributed to the college funds of my unborn children and grand-children.

Quote:

Anything undercut is perfect for 3D printers as well.

Ya, I don't get how they do that. I saw an image of batman's head, and couldn't figure out how they got the angular nose printed. What does the plastic rest on when it's printed, if it is a surface jutting out at 90 degrees?

[Anon-A-Moose]

(07-04-2013 12:15 PM)Architekt Wrote:  

Someone with a bit of 3D design skill could literally just sit around all day designing things until they struck it big, or make enough items with a small return that it adds up. Passive income anyone?

This is what I want to do someday.

[RASER]

Is it possible to make a girl?

"Lifes about, shooting your load'

[Laner]

Quote:

Ya, I don't get how they do that. I saw an image of batman's head, and couldn't figure out how they got the angular nose printed. What does the plastic rest on when it's printed, if it is a surface jutting out at 90 degrees?

I took some video today to show you the "secret".

Not so complicated really, the printer adds some filler that gets removed after the model is finished.

Much the same as when old archways were constructed, they just built filler and removed it when the keystone was placed.

I will try and get this up when I have some time.

[soup]

In the future, they are going to be able to run a scan on your body, and reprint the entire thing. This will be true cloning and not just growing another you from DNA.

All of your cells, including neural networks etc. will be able to be reprinted verbatim.

If your body gets old, they will be able to grow you a new one and then transfer your brain into the new one.

You want Wolverine claws? They will be able to print your body with a metal skeleton.

We are on the verge of becoming "homoevolutis":

[xsplat]

(07-05-2013 10:20 PM)Anon-A-Moose Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 12:15 PM)Architekt Wrote:  

Someone with a bit of 3D design skill could literally just sit around all day designing things until they struck it big, or make enough items with a small return that it adds up. Passive income anyone?

This is what I want to do someday.

I’m learning that follow through on entrepreneurial desires entirely is in an entirely different category than entrepreneurial desires.

This may sound strange and unbelievable – because even though I’m saying it is strange and unbelievable to me – but people don’t actually want what they want. At least if you judge by their actions.

Many times in many ways I’ve offered people the opportunity to pursue their entrepreneurial visions. I’ve offered angel investment to anyone who can come up with a good idea and a business plan. No takers. For those needing more direction, I have a seemingly endless number of likely lucrative projects that I have the means and desire to fund, and have been making efforts to recruit people. The deal is that all living and business expenses would be paid until the business was successful, after which there would be profit sharing, with the long term potential of partnership. No matter what a persons particular talent and motivation, if they are quality useful guys, I can put them to work. This offer garnered a lot of interest, enthusiasm, and support, but in the end cold feet or other issues has prevented people from taking that first big first step.

When it comes down to it, most people prefer to work for an established company rather than create their own. Even if all barriers to entry were reduced to the minimal possible; even if all of their living and business expenses would be paid for, they were given a great work and play and social environment, and they had good projects to work on that they believed and were interested in, and had mentorship and guidance from an entrepreneur with a proven track record and solid resources.

So at this point I interpret “This is what I want to do someday.” as meaning “That sounds cool, but in reality I’ll always be too busy with my real life to get around to it.”

After all, in this very thread I offered people everything needed to do this in this real life.

People do not want to be entrepreneurs. And as we all know deep down, when a blanket statement is made, it always means “in general” unless specifically otherwise stated. MOST people will not take the concrete steps required to become entrepreneurs, even when they say that is what they want to do. When it comes down to it, they’ll opt for what they know.

Entrepreneurs are a very rare breed.

Maybe it has to do with dopamine receptors and the need for novelty and risk?

[cardguy]

Really interesting post.

It is a topic I will try and open out into a separate thread at some point.

[Architekt]

xsplat: If I had money to invest in this, straight up I'd be in. If you'd be willing to pay me to design shit, I'd be willing to do some 3D designs for you

[Laner]

Quote:

MOST people will not take the concrete steps required to become entrepreneurs, even when they say that is what they want to do. When it comes down to it, they’ll opt for what they know.

Very true.

Some places also breed more entrepreneurs than others. Some areas even, even smaller are some specific cafes.

I find that people who are still more or less in the same social circles year after year are also the same types of individuals who are content climbing the ladders of companies. And by and large these are the significant portion of the population.

For others moving around, trying new things, connecting with new people, being a part of interesting technologies and shaping the markets for them all come with a certain type of personality and adventure.

Lets face it, starting businesses, hussling with no money to getting a huge cheque is not for most people. If someone always looks at it with a practical mind than there is no way they will have the steel to make it long term. Its not a career, its a lifestyle.

I can connect most of the things in my life to one another. Adventure touring on my motorcycle, skiing, surfing, business, travel, girls, party, education, it is all connected to some part of my brain, all in the same place it seems. I get a similar rush from all these aspects.

I went over to a friends studio yesterday (where I took some video of the 3D print) and we were playing with his hand held 3D scanner. We were jumping around like kids and throwing off business ideas like it was a lottery. Similar talk on a powder day, or an epic routledge over a mountain range on the motorbike. That shit is exciting.

Any way back on topic.

This set up we are playing with is mindblowing. Here is what we did.

Scope: I have been meeting lots of people with bunions lately. Most of these are women. One thing is that these women have a very tough time wearing high heels.

- So we plug in the 3D scanner to the laptop and scan a foot with bunions. The software models the foot perfectly, to scale.

- We import the foot into Rhino and model a quick high heeled shoe base that fits the foot perfectly.

- We export the .stl file to the 3D printer.

- We go next door for a couple beers and talk "blue sky ideas" and flirt with the sexy girls that work there.

- We go back to the studio and clean up the high heel foot bed. We have some of the "high heel" stilettos already and we click the pieces together.

We now have a custom high heel shoe prototype for a woman with bunions.

We also could have just sent the foot model .sti file over to the 3D printer and printed out the last. Or sent the file over to a 5 axis CNC milling machine and had the last made out of wood (more common).

This actually might be the best way to go. Get clients with bunions or foot deformity, scan their feet, make wooden lasts of their feet, and get custom shoes made in Indonesia.

[polymath]

I'm curious about print quality on these less expensive machines.

I worked with a Stratasys Fortus 400mc printer (retail $185,000) to fabricate parts for a custom assembly earlier this year. I found that it was pretty damn good but not perfect, especially where the extrusion head changes direction and the plastic loops over itself a little. I can't imagine that you get the same quality from a $1,200 printer, but I've never worked with one so I don't know what makes a $200k 3D printer's parts better than parts from one that costs $2k.

Obviously some of the cost goes to speed, warmup time, software, etc, but still -- if industry and academia are shelling out hundreds of thousands on a single machine, there must be a reason.

Anyone know?

[soup]

[soup]

First 3D printed see-through skull transplant

[ColSpanker]

I'm thinking the big market for these machines, once the resolution becomes good enough, will be part replacement. I had to replace a fucking pump in a dishwasher recently which involved a 50 mile trip and over a hundred dollars for the part. The goddamn impeller, a nylon plastic part, was worn-out. Think about this: I had to spend close to $150.00 to replace a motor which needed a $0.50 part. And no, you can't just replace the part, you have to buy the whole unit.
Now if there was a 3D print shop on the corner which could duplicate the busted part in the same material, how cool would that be? Drop off the old part with the serial number and information of the motor, come back in a few hours, presto! For a small fee you have what you need. Imagine what this could do to the whole parts supply network.
Lord knows there are plenty of older machines you just can't find even get replacement parts.

[Feisbook Control]

(07-03-2013 01:54 PM)Spike Wrote:  

People always want to live in the future but I'm telling you, we already live in the future. Developments are really speeding up the last 100 years. Our generation already saw way more futuristic things happen than for example our fathers. Compare the brick mobile phone of the 90's with the HD playing supercomputer you have in your hands nowadays.

Compare our lives to that of a medieval peasant. Nothing really big happened from the year 0 till the late 1700's except for the invention of gunpowder maybe. Building methods and astrology were already invented before the year 0. Hell, the horse cart was the standard means of travel in most countries until the 1940's

I always use the music industry as a simple example. The LP record has been the standard for like 80 years, followed up by CD's (fifteen years the industry standard) which was rapidly followed up by mp3. In a few years people will just stream everything.

In our lifetimes we will see space travel, colonization of planets, new ways of harvesting the free energy of the sun, holodecks, printing of body parts, medical nanobots repairing your body while you sleep, integration of electronics in the human body. Perhaps the first bionic people.

This is the best time to live of all the ages.

I just hope they find a cure for baldness before my hair starts falling out

I get what your point is, but this is just unbelievably ignorant.

There were some pretty important Medieval inventions and Renaissance inventions. Arguably the most important invention ever, the printing press, occurred during the time you mentioned.

Those periods also produced Gothic architecture, linear perspective in art, and the piano in music.

[soup]

3D printed casts help bones heal 80% faster.
http://www.dvice.com/2014-4-21/ultrasoun...crazy-fast