Mayweather can stick to boxing
Boxers That Want To Try MMA And Muay Thai
I agree Canuck, the comparisons have got to stop, we all saw what happened with James Toney vs Randy Couture, but boxing & MMA have their own styles/art. Really depends on the fighter, besides I reckon Mayweather would do pretty good in MMA, as long as he sticks to a standup gameplan.
Riddick Bowe is old, washed-up and fat. In no way is he at all comparable to mayweather.
Even seasoned MMA fighters get taken down. You really think someone thats known for being a specialist in punches and nothing else will be able to prevent a take down in the UFC?
I think it's more possible for a fighter that isn't by trade a boxer to pick up hand striking skills, than for a fighter that's exclusively a boxer to pick up any of the other disciplines that largely dominate MMA. They're two entirely different sports. When you see washed-up boxers do this, it's an act of desperation by men that don't know what else to do with themselves, but can't stop because fighting is pretty much all they know how to do, and can't get licensed to box anymore.
While Hershel Walker was a football player by trade, he'd always practiced martial arts, so he wasn't really a football player taking up a totally different sport cold.
While Hershel Walker was a football player by trade, he'd always practiced martial arts, so he wasn't really a football player taking up a totally different sport cold.
"The best kind of pride is that which compels a man to do his best when no one is watching."
Riddick Bowe is one of the sad stories in boxing. I was ringside at his first fight with Holyfield and followed his career from the amateurs. He had so much raw talent but his laziness is legendary. I met his trainer, Eddie Futch many years ago. Bowe was in the middle of his troubles and headed towards his down slide. I asked Futch about Bowe and I'll never forget the disappointed and disgusted look on his face. He truly felt he had a great fighter on his hands who was squandering his vast talents. That chance meeting and the one I had with Genaro Hernandez at the same venue stand out most in my mind. I've met and interviewed some excellent fighters, hung out with a couple old-timers, and Bowe is one of those sob stories you hear in boxing.
His better days were 15-20 years ago and to see him reduced to this is a pity. He's clearly brain-damaged and needs to find something useful to replace boxing. Not an easy task for someone who comes from where he came then rose to an elite level. While he is not an all-time great, he had excellent skills, especially his uppercut.
Anyhow...a boxer fighting in Muay Thai generally only works if the boxer has prior experience in Muay Thai then makes the move to boxing, as with many Thai fighters. Guys like Khaosai and Khaokor Galaxy, Pone Kingpetch, Samart Payakaroon, Somluck Kamsing, Saen Sor Ploenchit, Yodsanan Sor Nanthachai, Veeraphol Sahaprom, and Pongsaklek Wonjongkam all fought in Muay Thai before turning to boxing.
MMA is a different ball game. It takes time to build and hone the skills necessary for a well-rounded game. Boxers and Muay Thai fighters rarely have these.
His better days were 15-20 years ago and to see him reduced to this is a pity. He's clearly brain-damaged and needs to find something useful to replace boxing. Not an easy task for someone who comes from where he came then rose to an elite level. While he is not an all-time great, he had excellent skills, especially his uppercut.
Anyhow...a boxer fighting in Muay Thai generally only works if the boxer has prior experience in Muay Thai then makes the move to boxing, as with many Thai fighters. Guys like Khaosai and Khaokor Galaxy, Pone Kingpetch, Samart Payakaroon, Somluck Kamsing, Saen Sor Ploenchit, Yodsanan Sor Nanthachai, Veeraphol Sahaprom, and Pongsaklek Wonjongkam all fought in Muay Thai before turning to boxing.
MMA is a different ball game. It takes time to build and hone the skills necessary for a well-rounded game. Boxers and Muay Thai fighters rarely have these.
Tim Syliva got knocked out by a well past him prime boxer.
Sure, an elite mma guy is going to destroy an elite boxer.
But in my experience this "Mayweather would get destroyed by a BJJ/MMA guy" is a way for a blue belt to feel superior to elite boxers.
I once heard a 150 pound who just got his blue belt say he'd take out Kelly Pavlik. I stopped sticking around after the gym because nonsense and stupidity like this was said all of the time.
ETA. This:
Sure, an elite mma guy is going to destroy an elite boxer.
But in my experience this "Mayweather would get destroyed by a BJJ/MMA guy" is a way for a blue belt to feel superior to elite boxers.
I once heard a 150 pound who just got his blue belt say he'd take out Kelly Pavlik. I stopped sticking around after the gym because nonsense and stupidity like this was said all of the time.
ETA. This:
Tim is an idiot for getting that close to someone who could only box. If he wanted to stand at the very least he should have leg kicked him for a round or 2 and not risk what happened.
You forgot to mention that Tim is well passed his prime as well and was the UFC champion in an incredibly weak division at the time.
You forgot to mention that Tim is well passed his prime as well and was the UFC champion in an incredibly weak division at the time.
Quote: (06-17-2013 07:59 PM)Jaylow Wrote:
Tim is an idiot for getting that close to someone who could only box. If he wanted to stand at the very least he should have leg kicked him for a round or 2 and not risk what happened.
You mean fighting involves more than punch and kicks? There are factors like game plans and gameness?
Yeah, that's true. Which is why blue belts who think they could take on elite fighters are living in a fairy tale land.
Quote: (06-17-2013 07:59 PM)Jaylow Wrote:
You forgot to mention that Tim is well passed his prime as well and was the UFC champion in an incredibly weak division at the time.
Riddick Bowe was in his prime? Then what does a fat, past him prime boxer have to do with anything?
I am saying that a great boxer won't be successful in any other aspect of pro MMA because you can't win just throwing punches anymore.
Quote: (06-17-2013 07:59 PM)Jaylow Wrote:
Tim is an idiot for getting that close to someone who could only box. If he wanted to stand at the very least he should have leg kicked him for a round or 2 and not risk what happened.
You forgot to mention that Tim is well passed his prime as well and was the UFC champion in an incredibly weak division at the time.
The thing is, Mercer has always been someone who could bang AND take a great shot. So fighting inside with him, especially when your hands are not your forte, is begging to be starched.
@Timoteo. I disagree. To get tight footwork, head movement, and an overall tight and technical boxing game is very hard and it takes years or decades to get to a pro level. Boxing is one of those things that kids get really good at because their flinch reaction is not fully developed. As an adult it took me a while to even feel comfortable in the pocket against an average guy. I figured im in my late 20's have spent enough time boxing to be better than most guys if a violent situation ever arose and i could fall back on my wrestling/bjj base if shit ever hit the fan. Im a pretty nonviolent guy who would rather talk things through than fight on the street. Its just not worth it for me since i enjoy grappling more and i never plan to fight mma so i focus my training and competition on what i enjoy most.
Guys like melvin manhoef started off as ridiculously vicious dutch kickboxers, got a couple of years to learn wrestling defense and learn how to get back to their feet and become killers. Im on my ipad so im not gonna embed any vids, but he is worth checking out. Paul daley, too. Also basically all the guys who used to be with golden glory are monsters on the feet and do well in mma. Overeem is one of the best that came out of that camp winning abu dhabi trials in europe(correct me if im wrong) You wont see them winning pan ams(one of the top bjj tournaments) any time soon, but that one aspect of grappling has them doing pretty well except against elite wrestlers and submission guys.
Aso, striking in a striking competiton is different than striking for mma the little nuances involving distance, timing, and the big one, avoiding thentake down make it a whole new game.
Guys like melvin manhoef started off as ridiculously vicious dutch kickboxers, got a couple of years to learn wrestling defense and learn how to get back to their feet and become killers. Im on my ipad so im not gonna embed any vids, but he is worth checking out. Paul daley, too. Also basically all the guys who used to be with golden glory are monsters on the feet and do well in mma. Overeem is one of the best that came out of that camp winning abu dhabi trials in europe(correct me if im wrong) You wont see them winning pan ams(one of the top bjj tournaments) any time soon, but that one aspect of grappling has them doing pretty well except against elite wrestlers and submission guys.
Aso, striking in a striking competiton is different than striking for mma the little nuances involving distance, timing, and the big one, avoiding thentake down make it a whole new game.
Boxing is one of those things that kids get really good at because their flinch reaction is not fully developed.
UgSlayer,
Could you please explain this sentence further? Thank you
UgSlayer,
Could you please explain this sentence further? Thank you
"The whole point of being alpha, is doing what the fuck you want.
That's why you see real life alphas without chicks. He's doing him.
Real alphas don't tend to have game. They don't tend to care about the emotional lives of the people around them."
-WIA
Hmm, I wonder what would happen if we put an old 20 years past his prime 40 something year old fat belly mma fighter, in there with a mid level up and coming heavyweight boxer like deontay wilder or tyson fury. In fact boxers make more, so why aren't top MMA guys crossing over to boxing if its so easy.
Riddick bowe was dropped by a kick to his leg, this is like a boxer being dropped by a punch in the arm.
Riddick was a real sad case, he showed no aggression and let another smaller guy stand there and kick him. Prime Riddick bowe gave holyfield at his best 3 helluva a beatings. The ray mercer video is more likely. A boxer would know all he has is his fist and endurance. So you either tired the guy out or jump on top of him and punch him. Put a strong aggressive boxer with a come forward style like the Mike tyson, joe frazier, roberto duran or sonny liston or Nigel Benn style aggresiveness and the fight will not be close. If you try to kick a guy like that he will just run into you, bypassing your foot and be on top of you beating your head in.. We all know what happened to Carmelo Marrero when he went to Larry Holmes gym and got slapt out and put to sleep. Now this was back when carmelo was undefeated.
When I see george st pierre challenge andre ward to a boxing match or even an mma match and win or Silva challenge b-hop or Marco Huck or Guillermo Jones rather than a decade past his prime roy jones then I'll believe. I am not closed mind to the idea that MMA could beat boxing, I've just MMA guys fighting fat, near 50 y/o boxers and sometimes loosing, and when MMA fighters come on hbo, I see them being koed in the first round by sub prime fighters. These guys like mercer, toney and bowe are in mma because no one will let them box, because they cannot even pass the physicals, too injured and too washed up.
Riddick bowe was dropped by a kick to his leg, this is like a boxer being dropped by a punch in the arm.
Riddick was a real sad case, he showed no aggression and let another smaller guy stand there and kick him. Prime Riddick bowe gave holyfield at his best 3 helluva a beatings. The ray mercer video is more likely. A boxer would know all he has is his fist and endurance. So you either tired the guy out or jump on top of him and punch him. Put a strong aggressive boxer with a come forward style like the Mike tyson, joe frazier, roberto duran or sonny liston or Nigel Benn style aggresiveness and the fight will not be close. If you try to kick a guy like that he will just run into you, bypassing your foot and be on top of you beating your head in.. We all know what happened to Carmelo Marrero when he went to Larry Holmes gym and got slapt out and put to sleep. Now this was back when carmelo was undefeated.
When I see george st pierre challenge andre ward to a boxing match or even an mma match and win or Silva challenge b-hop or Marco Huck or Guillermo Jones rather than a decade past his prime roy jones then I'll believe. I am not closed mind to the idea that MMA could beat boxing, I've just MMA guys fighting fat, near 50 y/o boxers and sometimes loosing, and when MMA fighters come on hbo, I see them being koed in the first round by sub prime fighters. These guys like mercer, toney and bowe are in mma because no one will let them box, because they cannot even pass the physicals, too injured and too washed up.
@spiderking. Kids are generally fearless. They dont flinch as much when a punch is being thrown at them because they havent been socked in the face yet. Plus kids punches dont hurt as much as a full grown mans punch. Whereas a grown man has prob at least had some sort of experiences in his life that had made him flinch. That type of reaction is etched into your brain unless you train yourself not to flinch.
As those kids grow up to be men, they generally are better boxers than ones who start later. Because experience but more importantly, the type of experience such as being able to stay comfortably in range and be more proactive. The first time i boxed at age 27 i was almost all reactive and was flinching and blinking so much you woulda thought i was sending out morse code signals. I eventually felt comfortable in the pocket and spar with the good guys in the gym, but ill never be able to reach the level of someone who has boxed since they were 5. The muscle memory helps them, too.
@Rollover, have you ever been leg kicked by a trained thai/dutch boxer?
As those kids grow up to be men, they generally are better boxers than ones who start later. Because experience but more importantly, the type of experience such as being able to stay comfortably in range and be more proactive. The first time i boxed at age 27 i was almost all reactive and was flinching and blinking so much you woulda thought i was sending out morse code signals. I eventually felt comfortable in the pocket and spar with the good guys in the gym, but ill never be able to reach the level of someone who has boxed since they were 5. The muscle memory helps them, too.
@Rollover, have you ever been leg kicked by a trained thai/dutch boxer?
Quote: (06-17-2013 10:59 PM)Rolloverbeethoven Wrote:
In fact boxers make more, so why aren't top MMA guys crossing over to boxing if its so easy.
Riddick bowe was dropped by a kick to his leg, this is like a boxer being dropped by a punch in the arm.
The first point is a good one.
Your second is ridiculous! Those leg kicks can snap shin bones etc!
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H L Mencken
Quote: (06-17-2013 07:45 PM)MikeCF Wrote:
Tim Syliva got knocked out by a well past him prime boxer.
Sure, an elite mma guy is going to destroy an elite boxer.
But in my experience this "Mayweather would get destroyed by a BJJ/MMA guy" is a way for a blue belt to feel superior to elite boxers.
I once heard a 150 pound who just got his blue belt say he'd take out Kelly Pavlik. I stopped sticking around after the gym because nonsense and stupidity like this was said all of the time.
ETA. This:
I love how MMA fanboys always say "Tim Silvia was old too".
I just checked, Ray Mercer is 16 Years Older than Silvia.
I don't know why the MMA fanboys can't just chalk this one up to "anything can happen in a fight".
Which is strange, since anyone who has been in multiple fights knows that the only thing you can count on in fighting is "anything can happen in a fight".
MMA has sort of become a joke over the years, especially with their weekly pay per views, and the fact that you cannot tell the majority of the fanbase apart from NASCAR or WWF fans.
Back in the day it was good though.
Back in the day it was good though.
Quote: (06-19-2013 01:16 PM)DiorHomme Wrote:
MMA has sort of become a joke over the years, especially with their weekly pay per views, and the fact that you cannot tell the majority of the fanbase apart from NASCAR or WWF fans.
Back in the day it was good though.
Back in what day? When Royce was fighting Speedo Shamrock with a gi on? When fat Tank Abbot was knocking out nobodies?
The quality of athlete and fighter has only improved. The game is always evolving. Less than 10 years ago, no one was head-kicking. It was BJJ, wrestling, boxing. Once in a while you'd see guys throwing leg kicks. Now we have guys doing jump kicks off the cage, sick submissions, insane cardio, great groundwork, spinning elbows, front kicks to the face. Much more dynamic and exciting.
There are boring fights, but the number of free cards more than makes up for it. The only ppv events I know are by the UFC, and if you don't like those, you can watch WSOF and Bellator, and that's just on TV. You can catch fights from international organizations and huge grappling events (Metamoris is a recent example) on youtube.
If you're talking about the quality of fans, that has greatly improved as well. I remember when fans used to boo incessantly whenever a fight went to the ground. Nowadays most people who watch it at least understand why a fighter takes it to the ground or passes the guard. But then again, why care what a fanbase is like? Just enjoy the sport.
Guys wearing UFC t-shirts or even put UFC sticker on the back of their truck.....you know those people lol
I don't care about the fanbase itself, but there is a certain trashiness associated with it and it's huge in middle America. They can keep it.
Boxing has a certain class to it, even looking at the history of boxing. It makes you want to put on a nice suit and light up a cigar if you're going to a boxing event.
MMA, might as well get ready to yell out WHOOOO like you're Ric Flair and bring out your favorite coozie.
Boxing has a certain class to it, even looking at the history of boxing. It makes you want to put on a nice suit and light up a cigar if you're going to a boxing event.
MMA, might as well get ready to yell out WHOOOO like you're Ric Flair and bring out your favorite coozie.
Quote: (06-19-2013 04:24 PM)DiorHomme Wrote:
I don't care about the fanbase itself, but there is a certain trashiness associated with it and it's huge in middle America. They can keep it.
Boxing has a certain class to it, even looking at the history of boxing. It makes you want to put on a nice suit and light up a cigar if you're going to a boxing event.
MMA, might as well get ready to yell out WHOOOO like you're Ric Flair and bring out your favorite coozie.
I understand where you're coming from because I'm a huge boxing fan, but MMA is not a middle america phenomenon. I live near a major city on the east coast and it's huge here. Brazil is one of the UFC's biggest markets. MMA is gaining momentum internationally.
I agree boxing used to have a certain class to it. A lot of older guys are into boxing, and usually are more mature than the younger guys who watch mma, but I just watched the last Mayweather fight at Buffalo Wild Wings and it was just as rowdy and trashy as when they show UFC fights. I don't think it's a sports specific thing. People get shitty at football games, baseball games, boxing matches, ufc fights, etc.
Put men, alcohol, and competition in the same room, and things have the potential to get a little barbaric.
The quietest event in a stadium I think I ever saw was the Pride events in Japan. You could hear a pin drop during most of Sakuraba vs Carlos Newton.
Quote: (06-19-2013 02:23 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:
The quality of athlete and fighter has only improved. The game is always evolving. Less than 10 years ago, no one was head-kicking.
False.
Quote: (06-19-2013 04:44 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:
I agree boxing used to have a certain class to it. A lot of older guys are into boxing, and usually are more mature than the younger guys who watch mma, but I just watched the last Mayweather fight at Buffalo Wild Wings and it was just as rowdy and trashy as when they show UFC fights. I
Ha.
Way not to make your point.
Come on homeboy, you were at "Buffalo Wild Wings".
What did you expect, a Ciprianis crowd?
Jesus, I have never even seen a Buffalo Wild Wings in my life let alone stepped into one.
If I did step into one, I would murder myself for being so low-end and weesh.
Hell, the only reason I even know that Buffalo Wild Wings exists is because it's stock has performed well.
Quote: (06-19-2013 05:34 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:
Quote: (06-19-2013 02:23 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:
The quality of athlete and fighter has only improved. The game is always evolving. Less than 10 years ago, no one was head-kicking.
False.
Quote: (06-19-2013 04:44 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:
I agree boxing used to have a certain class to it. A lot of older guys are into boxing, and usually are more mature than the younger guys who watch mma, but I just watched the last Mayweather fight at Buffalo Wild Wings and it was just as rowdy and trashy as when they show UFC fights. I
Ha.
Way not to make your point.
Come on homeboy, you were at "Buffalo Wild Wings".
What did you expect, a Ciprianis crowd?
Jesus, I have never even seen a Buffalo Wild Wings in my life let alone stepped into one.
If I did step into one, I would murder myself for being so low-end and weesh.
Hell, the only reason I even know that Buffalo Wild Wings exists is because it's stock has performed well.
HA
Good for you, homeboy.
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