[BrewDog]

(01-15-2017 11:10 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 09:54 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

I think that people spend too much time worrying about salary when they should aim for happiness.

To me, your goal in life should be to be the guy that has seen the most places and has done the most awesome shit.

Go skydiving. Tomorrow. Go get on an airplane and jump the fuck out. That's a life's worth of wealth on its own.

Still need money for those things.

I wasn't suggesting that we all sit on our asses and be worthless turds. We should just have our priorities straight.

I've had nice stuff much of my life. Sports cars, luxury cars, a nice house, etc. But those things are just things. When I think back on my life and remember stuff that made me happy, I think about the places I've been and the people I hung out with. When I tell funny or interesting stories about my life, those stories involve places and people. Not cars and houses.

There's nothing wrong with making a good living. I encourage everyone to do so. But it shouldn't be our life's goal.

But you're right. Money is certainly a means to do that cool stuff. I couldn't go fuck off overseas for months at a time if I didn't earn the money.

It's like some famous guy once said - maybe like Confucius or Bon Jovi - "You can't take any of it with you when you die."

[Oilrig]

My personal goal ( also read up on this subject and seems to be kind of a general standard) was 100k salary by age 30, also 100k net worth. By age 40 net worth at a million and close to 200k income. At these income/net worth levels you should be able to retire with $3-5 million net worth, assuming you keep working until age 55 or so. Of course I'm in the opinion you should always be hustling and never fully retire.

I hit the age 30 milestone of 100k income. I'm now 31 with a 300k net worth. I should hopefully hit the age million dollar net worth at age 40 assuming No major drops in the stock Market. Of course that's a big IF.

As long as you focus on saving and investing at a high rate you should be fine no matter what happens in life or with the stock market!

[Monty_Brogan]

(01-16-2017 06:29 PM)Oilrig Wrote:  

My personal goal ( also read up on this subject and seems to be kind of a general standard) was 100k salary by age 30, also 100k net worth. By age 40 net worth at a million and close to 200k income. At these income/net worth levels you should be able to retire with $3-5 million net worth, assuming you keep working until age 55 or so. Of course I'm in the opinion you should always be hustling and never fully retire.

I hit the age 30 milestone of 100k income. I'm now 31 with a 300k net worth. I should hopefully hit the age million dollar net worth at age 40 assuming No major drops in the stock Market. Of course that's a big IF.

As long as you focus on saving and investing at a high rate you should be fine no matter what happens in life or with the stock market!

Very impressive numbers! We're the same age, same income except you have me beat in NW. Are you a tradesman? And I'd assume you're weathering the decline in oil price down there?

[colblionel]

Honestly I can't see myself working past 40. Ideally I'd like to retire and not have to work by my late 30s. I'm 24.

To make this a reality I'd have to save aggressively and invest and start a side business that can generate some decent income.

What's the point of retiring at 55 or 60. By than you're going to feel too old. I know I would.

I think even 40 is pushing it, but you're still young enough to travel and fuck young chicks if you stayed in shape throughout the years.

We should all pick an age to retire by where we can still enjoy our lives for a while.

[Oilrig]

Monty, thanks! I actually work in HR for a major oil Company. I save/invest most of my salary and have some side hustles as well where I bank that money. Yes, I've been able to survive mass layoffs! Kept my head down and worked harder than everybody else. This year looks to be the rebound year for oil so hopefully I'll be safe until the next downturn!

Colblionel i agree retiring at 40 sounds awesome. But then what? Party and bang Chicks everyday? I think we need some sort of goals to keep the mind sharp and keep Improving. I like the idea of semi retirement at 40 and starting a business or working part time to keep income coming through so you don't have to touch your savings. The key is to have enough money to have the option to do whatever you want! If you want to retire then great, you have that option cause you have millions in the bank. If you want to keep working and build more wealth then that's great too Me personally I love to make money, it's like a hobby of mine lol. Love to see the bank account grow. Don't think that'll go away in old age!

[Peregrine]

I would recommend reading WestCoast's posts in the beginning of this thread. This line of thinking is expanded upon at his blog: http://wallstreetplayboys.com/savings-ra...-worth-is/

If you're interested in numbers: http://www.financialsamurai.com/how-much...e-percent/ and http://www.financialsamurai.com/the-aver...ge-person/ (yes I'm aware this says "above average person", but let's be honest, no one here is trying to be average, right?)

Each answer in this thread, including mine, tells you more about the person answering than anything else.

[HectorLavoe]

I calculated that it would take $5000 per month minimum to live a decent life as a single man in Toronto. That would require a pretax income of roughly $90,000. That is not a flashy life either. Being an employee is no longer a viable option to obtain a basic middle class life here.

[jamaicabound]

I remember reading a while back that up to age 33 I believe it is, if your making 133k a year you are in the 1%. From there you need to dramatically raise your income every 5-7 years to stay in the 1%. I think even by mid 40's you need to be up to several hundred thousand per year.

I get that this forum is a lot of high performance and high performing guys, myself included so I get the thought behind this topic. That said I think it's important to remember money isn't everything and money alone doesn't equal happiness. I also don't think you measure the value of someone as a person by how much money they make.

I have a couple buddies who are into rock climbing or rafting or traveling who probably make less than 25k a year but are probably some of the happiest guys with the most interesting lives and banging the hottest chicks.

I would say up to age 20 most people are working bullshit jobs, going through school or some type of training, etc. By 25 or 30 I'd say if I had to throw out a number 35k is respectable 50k is doing pretty good for that age.

I think by 35 people are getting more established in their careers. I would say 50k respectable, 75k or 80k is doing pretty well, 100k is doing extremely well.

At 40 a 75k doing okay, 100k average to above average 150k and up pretty good.

Keep in mind a fairly small percentag of the population does over 100k a year so just because you dont make 100k doesn't mean your a lazy piece of shit.

One other thing for any younger guys out there. I was kind of a loser until my late 20's. I take that back I wasn't a loser but I wasn't someoen willing to follow the traditional bullshit route of getting a career, kissing ass, selling my youth. I wanted to take my own path and things took a bit longer for me to get going so I was kind of working bullshit jobs refining my hustles and businesses until almost 30 years old before I finally hit my stride. I'm not rich but I'm working for myself pulling in say 115k last year, this year added probably another 40k to my income, in the process of doing taxes now but I'm guessing probably goign to do 155k and I'm 34. I knwo some guys are making much more than that but I'm very content and happy where IM at now.

[Rawthentic]

I think we need to define exactly what is acceptable - when it comes to salary, I think shooting to be above-average should be our goal; financial independence.

I developed this framework for planning my financial goals a few years back - this is the income component of that plan:
with the multiple listed as amount by age

25 - 2x (50k)
26 - 2.2x
27 - 2.4
28 - 2.6
29 - 2.8
30 - 3x (90k)
31 - 3.2x
32 - 3.4x
33 - 3.6x
34 - 3.8x
35 - 4x (140k)
36 - 4.2x
37 - 4.4x
38 - 4.6x
39 - 4.8x
40 - (5x) (200k)

[Peregrine]

Another note: annual salary/income doesn't matter as much as how much you make an hour. 100k/year working 60 hour weeks is very different from 100k/year working 5 hour weeks.

Of course, the goal is to eventually divorce your income from your time completely.

[C-Note]

I think it depends on what your goals are. In this forum we preach being self-willed and responsible for our own success in whatever endeavor we undertake. So, let's say your goals are related to these four categories: (1) International playboy, (2) master tradesman, (3) bohemian artist/off-the-grid Dharma bum, or (4) family patriarch. The acceptable salary by decade would be different for each of these four.

1. To be an international playboy means you need to have some custom-fitted, high quality clothes, be well-traveled, and be able to be a man-about-town. This takes some dough, depending on where you live. A low six-figure salary by the time you're in your late 30s is probably the appropriate target. Choose a career (finance, trade, banking, etc) that will get you there.

2. To be a master tradesman, such as a welder, steelworker, skycrane operator, plumber, electrician, etc, is fairly easy to figure out what salary you should be making. Look at the wage scale for those workers in your area by years of experience, and do the things that keeps you on track to match that scale.

3. As a bohemian artist/musician/world backpacker there isn't as much expectation that you'll be well-off. Your life is your art. Your art needs to be good, not necessarily your finances. You just need enough to get you to the next port or to build your cabin in the woods. You're in touch with nature, the elements, and human consciousness so you're good even though you may miss a few meals and not be able to buy more than one beer at the airport bar.

4. A family man and patriarch has much more responsibility. He must provide for his housewife and his kids. He may need to pay for their college, depending on his philosophy about such things. At the least, he should leave a legacy for his family to continue his good name. Therefore, you should pursue an upper middle class lifestyle and choose a career that will facilitate that. There are too many careers under that umbrella to list here. Because you're taking care of a family, you're probably not as much of a world traveler as #1, so your salary can be a little lower, but you'll need to watch what you spend and save a lot.

[SamuelBRoberts]

This question is fundamentally wrong.

Your bank account is not a scorecard for your life, and treating it like one leads to all kinds of misery.
A number on a check is not the determinant of "success", and if you treat it like one you will regret it.

[MongolianAbroad]

(01-19-2017 01:03 PM)C-Note Wrote:  

I think it depends on what your goals are. In this forum we preach being self-willed and responsible for our own success in whatever endeavor we undertake. So, let's say your goals are related to these four categories: (1) International playboy, (2) master tradesman, (3) bohemian artist/off-the-grid Dharma bum, or (4) family patriarch. The acceptable salary by decade would be different for each of these four.

1. To be an international playboy means you need to have some custom-fitted, high quality clothes, be well-traveled, and be able to be a man-about-town. This takes some dough, depending on where you live. A low six-figure salary by the time you're in your late 30s is probably the appropriate target. Choose a career (finance, trade, banking, etc) that will get you there.

Nice analysis on all the rest, agree totally, but on this one, I've got to disagree, finance, trade, and banking tend to be 9 to 5 (or 9 to 9 in some environments) at entry level and then 9 to 7 at mid level and then 9 to 9 at upper levels. They also tend to not be remote, so this wouldn't work, unless international playboy means traveling for only one month a year, using vacation time. I'll also note that at higher levels in those fields, many folks tend to not take vacation.

So, to suggest a modification on this one (the other three seemed pretty solid), I'd say international playboy means working remote. I mean 100% independence, and that's going to be copywriting, SEO, web development, other forms of IT work, and owning your own business, either online or offline with remote options, such as being a landlord with a management company running your assets or some other business that can be tasked to a 3rd party.

As far as budget, it varies tremendously. If you dig lower income countries, 3k a month and you are living a very good life in one spot with travel here and there, 4k a month and you can travel to and from these countries without money worries. If you enjoy higher income countries, then 5k to 6k a month or more, depending on your tastes, will be required.

All that said, I also agree with SamuelBRoberts, the question itself is fundamentally wrong, as it assumes that society gets to decide what is "acceptable," when in reality it's you that decides. So whatever you think is acceptable, then that's what's acceptable. If you decide that your metric will be whatever you deem society to deem acceptable, then so be it, but I find society doesn't always have our best interests at heart.

As an example, society wants you to consume, consume, consume. Yet, it's in creation that we really find ourselves, not in consumption, so I would take society's standards with a grain of salt, because one size does not fit all.

[Que enspastic]

A salary doesn't mean your rich. Wealth is far more important. Traders and business owners may not even have salaries, they just make money and grow the pile.

[Graft]

I think besides your first few years out of college, 5x your age should be the bare minimum if you're a motivated man who wants to be a playboy or a patriarch.

30-150k
40-200k
50-250k
60-300k

These sound like unattainably high salaries, but they really aren't. Almost every 30 year old account executive at a major tech company (SAP, Oracle, DellEMC, IBM, Salesforce, etc) is making north of $200k (with a liberal arts degree!). Every 30 year old in front office finance is making north of $200k-with the majority of investment bankers, traders, sales guys making $500k and up. Software engineers/programmers with 5-10 years of experience? At least $100k. Corporate lawyers make $200k right out of law school, then get big raises every year. Doctors/dentists should never have a year under $200k. Strategy/managing consultants are $100k-300k. Shit, I've seen sales guys for TV networks make hundreds of thousands a year-but they have to slug it out making 5 figures for a while.

Keep in mind, I live in NYC where these guys are dime a dozen. Don't think that they are all beta bucks though-some of them are huge chads. Due to the 40x rent rule (you need to earn 40x your monthly rent to qualify for your own pad), anything less than $70k is shit-you'll need roommates for a crap place.

The key is picking the right career that gets you into six figures quickly, and if you get tired of the grind, use the excess cash to start/buy your own business.

The other key is that these careers ALL have realistic seven figure potential.

Personally, I'd be happy, but not satisfied with 10x age earnings. It would take me 20x age earnings to be truly satisfied with my career.

[phoenix101]

The below is the median income, so half of households are making less than the below...if you can retrieve the data to see what the top 20% or 10% are making in each age group I guess that would be closer to being "successful".

2015 Median Household Income (Householder age)
NYC - under 25 - $37,361
Manhattan - under 25 - $47,458

NYC - 25 to 44 - $67,055
Manhattan - 25 to 44 - $100,879

NYC - 45 to 64 - $60,296
Manhattan - 45 to 64 - $75,833

NYC - over 64 - $33,917
Manhattan - over 64 - $39,088

[benji]

Acceptable is up to the individual really. Depends where you live, lifestyle needed to be happy, etc. Work out your own timeline that you need.

Personally i want to have enough money coming in through investments to live well and not need to work much or at all, be semi retired by 40 and fully retired by 50. I'm not really worried about what others are making and what others need. My lifestyle doesn't need to be elaborate, i'd prefer freedom.

[RichieP]

Set your own standards. Optimize for what matters to you and where you want to be.

[qwertyuiop]

(01-14-2017 12:28 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  

In my 20's <1 year out of college and I would not be surprised if I cracked 6 figures next year. And more after that.

Update since last year:

I'm not making six figures my second year (most likely), but I am looking into moving into a six figure role here in the next month.

Interviewing for jobs that all pay six figures at this point, so my prediction was not too far off.

[Plus Oultre]

(01-21-2017 12:08 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

This question is fundamentally wrong.

Your bank account is not a scorecard for your life, and treating it like one leads to all kinds of misery.
A number on a check is not the determinant of "success", and if you treat it like one you will regret it.

On top of this excellent comment, this question is fundamentally wrong because it creates a mentality of scarcity and limitation.

Why not?
20 - $1B
30 - $1B
40 - $1B
50 - $1B
60 - $1B
70 - $1B

Also, for the young folks in the forum ... you will soon realize that life is not linear and things never go as planned. You will have hundreds of set backs that will impact your finances during your life: the stock market will crash, your real estate will suddenly drop to half its value, you will get sick, disabled in an accident, people you trust will back stab you, your product will become irrelevant, your building will burn or flood, etc, etc ..... if in the equation of success you only have money, you will live a very unhappy life.

[8ball]

When answering questions like these you have to remember two things:

1. government house old income data is not very relevant. You are not competing with single moms in the hood or other groups dragging down that median income to a level where very average people who are mostly miserable can look at that statistic and feel good about themselves.

2. The city & general area you want to play in. Obviously a 30 year old in raleigh making 100k is doing well, but in LA that doesn't mean shit.

#1 is very important, i have met some dumbass kids thinking they are doing well and quoting LA median income stats. Usually they are the ones that have just recently moved here, it doesn't take them long though to understand the true meaning of "doing well."
Those stats should only be relevant if they are specific to your cohort. ex..Single man, college grad, x year experience, age xx, no serious health related impediment, living in good area of town. You should only compare your salary within that cohort. When you do that you will have a more realistic ranking of yourself. The answer might not be something you like, but its the truth.

[RURALGAMER]

I'm currently 38 years old. I've had plenty and had almost none. Of "salary" and of life.

A number is of no matter to me. So many things I have done and so many things I want to do that cost gas money and camping fees.

I guess I've reached the point that I finally realize I'd rather do than have.

[ProGambler]

20- being happy
30- being happy
40- being happy

and so on.

There is no target. Just be satisfied and be productive every day. That said, families are expensive so plan for that and save young if you want it.

[EDantes]

As long as one's making enough to support their target lifestyle, then that's good enough, there's no 'magic number' since money doesn't just grow on trees, and developing a mindset geared toward "hoarding as many $ as possible" versus specific concrete goals (e.x. I want to buy this car) isn't helpful.

A guy who's a rock musician or a military officer probably won't make as much as a Wall Street banker (except in the unlikely event he gets a Platinum record, or becomes a 4-star general), but as long as he's able to meet his goals with the money he makes, it's no problem, plus a lot of girls would way rather be with a rock guitarist or a military guy than a banker anyway.

[qwertyuiop]

(08-23-2017 07:45 PM)Graft Wrote:  

I think besides your first few years out of college, 5x your age should be the bare minimum if you're a motivated man who wants to be a playboy or a patriarch.

30-150k
40-200k
50-250k
60-300k

These sound like unattainably high salaries, but they really aren't. Almost every 30 year old account executive at a major tech company (SAP, Oracle, DellEMC, IBM, Salesforce, etc) is making north of $200k (with a liberal arts degree!). Every 30 year old in front office finance is making north of $200k-with the majority of investment bankers, traders, sales guys making $500k and up. Software engineers/programmers with 5-10 years of experience? At least $100k. Corporate lawyers make $200k right out of law school, then get big raises every year. Doctors/dentists should never have a year under $200k. Strategy/managing consultants are $100k-300k. Shit, I've seen sales guys for TV networks make hundreds of thousands a year-but they have to slug it out making 5 figures for a while.

Keep in mind, I live in NYC where these guys are dime a dozen. Don't think that they are all beta bucks though-some of them are huge chads. Due to the 40x rent rule (you need to earn 40x your monthly rent to qualify for your own pad), anything less than $70k is shit-you'll need roommates for a crap place.

The key is picking the right career that gets you into six figures quickly, and if you get tired of the grind, use the excess cash to start/buy your own business.

The other key is that these careers ALL have realistic seven figure potential.

Personally, I'd be happy, but not satisfied with 10x age earnings. It would take me 20x age earnings to be truly satisfied with my career.

Pretty fucking solid. Even engineers can hit those numbers in other cities if they are on their grind -- hell even Sales Engineer roles might be able to hit those numbers.

I've known programmers and sales guys who have hit 250k in their 20s.