rooshvforum.network is a fully functional forum: you can search, register, post new threads etc...
Old accounts are inaccessible: register a new one, or recover it when possible. x


Girls Not Coming of Age
#1

Girls Not Coming of Age

I stumbled upon this fantastic takedown of our favorite TV show:

Quote:Betsy Woodruff Wrote:

Girls Not Coming of Age
If Girls is a portent, we’re in trouble.

I feel a little silly writing about Girls, because it seems that every social commentator in America has weighed in on it by now. It’s sexist, it’s racist, it’s nepotistic, it’s too hard on women, it’s too hard on men . . . There’s probably a Women’s Studies grad student somewhere writing her dissertation on Girls criticism. So when my editor asked me to write about Lena Dunham, single-woman culture, and “What does it portend?” I wasn’t sure whether there was anything new to say. But the results of November 6 — and particularly the way the demographic represented in the show voted — point to a disturbing new angle.

For starters, as with any other contemporary work of art (and I use art in the loosest sense of the word), it’s impossible to tell whether Girls is reflecting or shaping culture. But given how popular the show is and how much scrutiny it has drawn, it’s worth speculating as to which is the case. And for the sake of Western civilization, let’s hope it’s the former. That’s because if Dunham’s vision is prophetic — if it’s helping to forward a larger cultural shift, rather than just depicting a self-contained subgroup — then I think it’s safe to say it’s all over for us.

But before getting into the “The end is nigh” stuff, let’s backtrack a bit. For those of you who are really good about not watching TV, Girls is a wildly popular HBO show about four young women living in Brooklyn and trying to “make it,” whatever that means these days. It’s produced by Judd Apatow (that’s important, and I’ll get into it in a bit) and created by and starring Lena Dunham. If you used the World Wide Web in the last month, you may know her as the tattooed brunette who made the “Voting for Obama is like losing your virginity” ad. Her show just got renewed for a third season, and she got a $3.7 million deal for her first book of essays, successfully lowering the self-esteem of 26-year-olds everywhere.

The next important reference point, at least for my reading of the show, is Judd Apatow’s corpus. He’s mostly famous for writing raunchy sex comedies, and Girls seems to fit into that tradition. But I think there’s a fundamental difference between Apatow’s work and Dunham’s. You can argue that, at its most basic level, the primary concern of Apatow’s work is coming of age. And he seems to see independence, restraint, and responsibility as fundamental components of successfully moving from adolescence to adulthood. His work suggests that those are good things.

In fact, the endings of Apatow’s most popular movies all feel a bit like Leave It to Beaver (spoilers ahead): The 40-Year-Old Virgin ends with Steve Carell’s character waiting to have sex until he’s married; Superbad ends with hormonally crazed high-school boys choosing relationships over drunken hook-ups; Knocked Up ends with the father of an accidental baby deciding to get his life together so he can help raise her. It’s almost cartoonishly moral. And that’s not even touching on Apatow’s best work, Freaks and Geeks, a sadly short-running TV show which is basically a panegyric to the Midwest, healthy family relationships, and getting good grades. Freaks and Geeks celebrates the developing ability of its protagonist, Lindsay Weir, to make good choices. It’s about growing up, and its take on coming of age is that it’s a pretty good thing to do.

But there’s an important difference between Apatow’s work and Dunham’s, and that is that Apatow tells and re-tells stories of growing up, while Dunham shows a group of women who stubbornly refuse to do so. Apatow shows characters learning the importance of responsibility and morality, while Dunham’s characters are largely devoid of the former and uninterested in the latter.

I'd like to pause here to emphasize how correct this distinction is. I am not a fan of Apatow's movies (although I loved Superbad) and find many of his transformations a bit cliche or not believable, but it's a great point. Judd Apatow's work = growing up; Lena Dunham's work = refusing to grow up.

Quote:Quote:

The show’s main character, played by Dunham herself, embodies all of this. In the first scene of the pilot, when her parents tell her they won’t be paying her bills any more, she loses it, and informs them that instead of pushing her out of the nest, they should be grateful she isn’t addicted to pills. Her friends are equally appalled by the prospect of a 24-year-old paying her own phone bills, and, for the most part, they’re equally reckless. For instance, in the second episode, one of them misses her abortion appointment because she’s busy having sex in a bar. And their romantic relationships — unsurprisingly — come in about every possible iteration of dysfunction.

At its core, Girls feels like a deliberate, dissective examination of a group of people who stubbornly refuse to grow up and are lucky enough to be able to pull it off. The main thing Dunham’s characters share is the idea that just because they exist, somebody else should give them stuff. In and of itself, depicting that isn’t at all a bad thing. Girls is an interesting project, it’s well executed, and it can be really, really funny. Look, I like Girls, and I’m excited about the second season.

But Dunham’s stupid little YouTube ad for the president might have ruined it all for me. That’s because she sounds like she’s channeling her character, Invasion of the Body Snatchers–style. They share the same baffling, naïvely egomaniacal understanding of justice — they both seem to think that because they exist, the universe needs to make sure that all the sex they choose to have is consequence-free.

You can almost argue that Lena Dunham sees President Obama as the perfect surrogate for everything missing in her characters’ lives: He’s their gentle lover, supportive parent, and empathetic friend. He’s special. He won’t let them down. He’s Prince Charming. And that kind of defeats the purpose of feminism.

[Image: ohshit.gif]

Quote:Quote:

You’d think the feminist elevation of agency would result in women who take pride in being responsible for their own bodies. You’d hope that telling women that they can do whatever they want would imply that they’re responsible for what they do. You’d think serious feminists would argue that true empowerment is something you lay claim to, not something the federal government dispenses in all its benevolence. But for Dunham, that doesn’t seem to be the case.

In fact, for all practical purposes, the patriarchy no longer decides whom American women can sleep with and when. That’s great. But if you don’t want men in Washington telling you how to use your sexuality, you shouldn’t expect them to subsidize it. But Dunham seems to actually believe they should. Dunham makes tons of money, and I’m quite confident she can afford to pay for her own birth control. But she doesn’t seem to take pride in that; it’s not what her characters aspire to, and given her foray into the delightful world of presidential-election ads, it doesn’t seem to be something she aspires to, either.

Second-wave feminists lionized the independent woman who paid her own rent and busted through glass ceilings and ran for Congress. Being totally self-sufficient was the goal. The idea was that women didn’t need men, whether those men were their fathers or husbands or boyfriends or presidents. By contrast, Dunham’s new vision of women as lady parts with ballots is infantilizing and regressive.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/3...cribol.com

The hate she received is overwhelming. Just some choice bits:

Quote:Quote:

Whoa, numbnuts, What an ignorant article! You think Dunham is touting the shallowness of her characters? Why would you think that? Why would you compare a running series to movies which start and end in 90 minutes or so? Can't you see that there is time for extensive character development in series?

[Image: laugh2.gif]

Quote:Quote:

You write like you're 40. The girl in the picture paired with the article doesn't appear 40, but the voice that comes out of her word's sound almost like the stereotypical nag. Yes, youth today experience a delayed adulthood, and yes that makes slightly older people relatively less mature, however insinuating at the author does that Lena Dunham, or young women in general are naive and incapable of running their own lives is insulting, and diminishing the struggle that many of these women go through every day just to feel like they matter. To close, I don't agree with the author that the point of Girls is to "make it," I think women today have a hard enough time trying to keep their head above water.

[Image: facepalm-polarbear.jpg]

Quote:Quote:

A TV show featuring immature, self-obsessed twenty-somethings? Gee, the way you herald it as the fall of Western society and feminism you almost think it had never been done before. I'm sure you already read books and venture outside, so there's not really any excuse for you to be gleaning such far reaching socio-political insights from a comedian. Maybe you should write about something that you understand, like bullshit commentary riding the coat tails of a popular program to get more web hits?

Obama fanboys jump in too (I like Obama in general too, but I'd never deny that he is a strong supporter of all things feminist).

Quote:Quote:

What a stretch to take a show that depicts a very real narcissism among spoiled American women and turn it into a negative critique of Obama. This is by no means the only demographic of women that supported Obama. And I'm sure we could find plenty of this shallow kind of woman voting for right wingers. Honestly, can you name one GOP leader that would be as supportive of freedom and equality for women as Obama? Does it make him a sugar daddy because he wants equality for women? And if Hillary runs, many of the women who voted for Obama will vote for her. Does that make her a sugar mommy? Is civil rights reform law a government hand out? Give me a break.

Quote:Quote:

Because it's only the ladies whose sleeping around needs accountability. Meanwhile, no judgment heaped on the men whose consequence-free sex is enabled by women's access to birth control.

[Image: facepalm.png]

"Imagine" by HCE | Hitler reacts to Battle of Montreal | An alternative use for squid that has never crossed your mind before
Reply
#2

Girls Not Coming of Age

The politics of this ruin it for me. It comes across like a scold because not enough young white women voted for Romney.
Reply
#3

Girls Not Coming of Age

Handsome Creepy Eel, I want to thank you for bringing this into my life. I can't stop laughing! I love the smell of White Knighting in the morning. It smells like victory. And couple that with the squeak of the hamster wheel, made my day complete. The comments! Oh how I love the comments!

[Image: clap2.gif]

"Feminism is a trade union for ugly women"- Peregrine
Reply
#4

Girls Not Coming of Age

As good an article as one could hope for from a feminist. Sadly, one can't expect much more from National Review nowadays. As long as a piece is not radically liberal, the conservatives will fall over themselves to run it. Meanwhile, a brilliant commentator on sex like Devlin is left out in the cold.
Reply
#5

Girls Not Coming of Age

Quote: (06-13-2013 08:51 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

As good an article as one could hope for from a feminist. Sadly, one can't expect much more from National Review nowadays. As long as a piece is not radically liberal, the conservatives will fall over themselves to run it. Meanwhile, a brilliant commentator on sex like Devlin is left out in the cold.

Who is this Devlin guy (gal)? Throw me an article or two please.

"Imagine" by HCE | Hitler reacts to Battle of Montreal | An alternative use for squid that has never crossed your mind before
Reply
#6

Girls Not Coming of Age

Handsome Creepy Eel:

Occidental Quarterly

Link dump of his articles at DontMarry

Quote:Old Chinese Man Wrote:  
why you wonder how many man another man bang? why you care who bang who mr high school drama man
Reply
#7

Girls Not Coming of Age

Thanks. I'll give it a read.

I see they've already been branded by the PC police, but they're actually reveling in it and making fun of their "condemnation:

Quote:About us Wrote:

“Slick, academic-looking journal edited by a Who’s Who of the radical right.”
—The Southern Poverty Law Center

"Imagine" by HCE | Hitler reacts to Battle of Montreal | An alternative use for squid that has never crossed your mind before
Reply
#8

Girls Not Coming of Age

UPDATE: read http://dontmarry.files.wordpress.com/200...tating.pdf and http://www.thornwalker.com/ditch/devlin_home_ec_01.htm --- holy fuck, there is so much clarity in them!

"Imagine" by HCE | Hitler reacts to Battle of Montreal | An alternative use for squid that has never crossed your mind before
Reply
#9

Girls Not Coming of Age

I'm no fan of the SPLC, but let's be straight: The Occidental Quarterly is a white nationalist publication. If that's your thing, cool, but this goes a bit farther than just being anti-PC.
Reply
#10

Girls Not Coming of Age

Quote: (06-14-2013 05:55 AM)j r Wrote:  

I'm no fan of the SPLC, but let's be straight: The Occidental Quarterly is a white nationalist publication. If that's your thing, cool, but this goes a bit farther than just being anti-PC.

Oh no, I'm no white nationalist and have little interest in the cause but, as long as logic is sound and relevant sources are cited, I am willing to read any source. I'm just leery of all SPLC's judgements after Rooshgate.

"Imagine" by HCE | Hitler reacts to Battle of Montreal | An alternative use for squid that has never crossed your mind before
Reply
#11

Girls Not Coming of Age

Quote: (06-14-2013 06:36 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Quote: (06-14-2013 05:55 AM)j r Wrote:  

I'm no fan of the SPLC, but let's be straight: The Occidental Quarterly is a white nationalist publication. If that's your thing, cool, but this goes a bit farther than just being anti-PC.

Oh no, I'm no white nationalist and have little interest in the cause but, as long as logic is sound and relevant sources are cited, I am willing to read any source. I'm just leery of all SPLC's judgements after Rooshgate.

Yeah, the SPLC is basically a way for a few people at the top of thy organization to draw very large salaries by trying to shame people with ideas they don't like. I actually think its a huge misnomer to characterize TOQ as the right. It's a whole other animal.

And I agree with a lot that Devlin says about feminism, but the other stuff can't help but taint it for me.
Reply
#12

Girls Not Coming of Age

Sexualutopia By F. Roger Devlin.

"Nature has played a trick on men: production of spermatozoa occurs at
a rate several orders of magnitude greater than female ovulation (about 12
million per hour vs. 400 per lifetime). This is a natural, not a moral, fact. Among
the lower animals also, the male is grossly oversupplied with something for
which the female has only a limited demand. This means that the female
has far greater control over mating. The universal law of nature is that males
display and females choose. Male peacocks spread their tales, females choose.
Male rams butt horns, females choose. Among humans, boys try to impress
girls—and the girls choose. Nature dictates that in the mating dance, the male
must wait to be chosen..."
Reply
#13

Girls Not Coming of Age

Quote: (07-14-2013 01:37 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

Sexualutopia By F. Roger Devlin.

"....r mating. The universal law of nature is that males
display and females choose. Male peacocks spread their tales, females choose.
Male rams butt horns, females choose....

This guy didn't misspell "tails" in the original article I hope.
I think he has a point on sexual economy.
Reply
#14

Girls Not Coming of Age

Quote: (07-14-2013 02:25 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

Quote: (07-14-2013 01:37 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

Sexualutopia By F. Roger Devlin.

"....r mating. The universal law of nature is that males
display and females choose. Male peacocks spread their tales, females choose.
Male rams butt horns, females choose....

This guy didn't misspell "tails" in the original article I hope.
I think he has a point on sexual economy.
I think he refers to the tail feathers of a peacock

Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
Reply
#15

Girls Not Coming of Age

Quote: (07-14-2013 01:37 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

Sexualutopia By F. Roger Devlin.

"Nature has played a trick on men: production of spermatozoa occurs at
a rate several orders of magnitude greater than female ovulation (about 12
million per hour vs. 400 per lifetime). This is a natural, not a moral, fact. Among
the lower animals also, the male is grossly oversupplied with something for
which the female has only a limited demand. This means that the female
has far greater control over mating. The universal law of nature is that males
display and females choose. Male peacocks spread their tales, females choose.
Male rams butt horns, females choose. Among humans, boys try to impress
girls—and the girls choose. Nature dictates that in the mating dance, the male
must wait to be chosen..."

of course.

this is why we learn game in order to increase the odds of the females choosing us.

this is why we chase fame, status, wealth, power, strength.
Reply
#16

Girls Not Coming of Age

Never seen this show. Is it worth watching just to see the hamsters spinning at warp speed?

I watched the Twilight movies for that purpose. Seeing those movies shows you just how fucking warped the ideas being put into impressionable girls' minds are.
Reply
#17

Girls Not Coming of Age

what about rape? Rape is extremely common in the animal kingdom. it renders female choice obsolete.
Reply
#18

Girls Not Coming of Age

Quote: (07-14-2013 07:18 PM)assman Wrote:  

Never seen this show. Is it worth watching just to see the hamsters spinning at warp speed?

I watched the Twilight movies for that purpose. Seeing those movies shows you just how fucking warped the ideas being put into impressionable girls' minds are.

"I watched the Twilight movies for that purpose." Suuuurre.

It's worth it for a red pilled individual to dissect.

"I have refused to wear a condom all of my life, for a simple reason – if I’m going to masturbate into a balloon why would I need a woman?"
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)