[Prosal]

(05-26-2013 03:25 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

What disappoints me about the recent beheading in London and Boston bombings etc is where are the peaceful Muslims marching and saying 'not in our name'? It is always down to the press to speak up for moderate Muslims, telling us how 'not all Muslims' are like this and how the majority are outraged. Well where is the outrage? Where are the moderate peaceful ones vocally condemning the extremists and condemning the barbaric beliefs of the extremists? I see a couple of community leaders in the press but what I want to see is 1000's of them out on the streets saying that the extremists have no place in their community,mosques etc. The community must know who these potential killers are right? Why are they never handing them over to the police? Why are they not snitched up by fellow worshippers in the mosques? The impression it gives is that secretly, deep down, that the community somehow supports the killers amongst them through their collective silence.

i.e:

Cartoonist draws a picture of Mohammed and a pig = thousands on the streets calling for Sharia law and the death of cartoonist.

British soldier beheaded in London by Muslims calling for a holy war = One or two Muslim guys on tv saying 'not all of us are like that'.

Where is the condemnation?

I have travelled and lived in Muslim countries such as Pakistan, Indonesia, Kyrgyzstan and the North Caucasus and have found Muslims extremely hospitable and friendly, I have never had any problem and received only hospitality as far as I can remember. They really are good people in the majority and far from radicalised ( Indonesian and Kyrgyz Muslims like to get drunk and bang as much as the next guy ). Islam however in Europe does have huge issues that need to be brought out in open debate and addressed mainly by their own community. Until that happens and the millions of peaceful Muslims in Europe say 'enough is enough - we don't support these idiots and will root them out and hand them over whenever we find them' then we will continue to have problems and resentments.

Agree with all of the above, nonetheless keep in mind that it is the muslims themselves who are the first victims of the extremists (Irak, Afghanistan, West Africa, ect). Yesterday there was 75 killed by car bombs in Baghdad, last week some 28 killed by Munjao suicide bombers in Niger, ect, ect - not even talking of the Musim Brotherhood goverment in Egypt who blithely imprison, torture and kill dozens of opposants. The moderate muslims living here are certainly sorry and even shocked about those acts of terrorism in Europe, but they also certainly put things into perspective. At least, I think.

[InternationPlayboy]

(05-25-2013 06:05 PM)Kristian Wrote:  

I don't know why so many people are afraid of islam...I think is a matter of fear...look at turkey..most of their Young population see the world in a tolerant way..turkey it's the example of development and example to the rest of the islamic world..

This is always the argument I try making as well, but I haven't heard anyone yet on the forum come up with an intelligent response when they try and argue that Islam itself is the problem and not the region or influence of the region the people are in.

(05-25-2013 06:05 PM)samseau Wrote:  

Study up on the history of Lebanon or Egypt for good examples of this. Modern day Islamic Turkey has to continually deal with their extremists as well (that's why they have a mandatory draft).

This is the second time I've seen you write this about Turkey on this forum and it simply isn't true and boe jangles and I both pointed this out in another thread. Turkey doesn't have an issue with Islamic extremists. The only issues it has, which may also be why there is a mandatory draft, is the conflict with the Kurdish people. This has absolutely nothing to do with an islamic movement (Also note a huge portion of the Kurdish army are women, which would be frowned upon in an Islamic extremist group), it is a separatist movement. This is also going on in Syria, Iraq, and Iran as well. The other issue is obviously refugees from Syria, which some of the conflict is spilling over the border, but that obviously has nothing to do with the Turkish people itself. The issues are coming from Syria and not Turkey.

[bojangles]

Turkey is not even Islamic in the sense that it is a secular republic. You can be whatever religion you want and the state has no official religion.

This is where arguments bout not allowing the building of mosques in the UK/USA when they don't allow building of churches in Saudi Arabia or wherever falls apart. the UK/USA are secular countries, therefore religious freedom is allowed, the majority of muslim states are not and have Islam as an official religion.

I'm not sure what to make of this all but I just wanted to salute porscheguy's post here:
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-24014-...#pid454456

Said everything I wanted to say. Personally if I was ruler of this country, I would extradite anyone with Somali descent or heritage including Mo Farah.

[The Fantasist]

(05-28-2013 06:40 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

I would extradite anyone with Somali descent or heritage including Mo Farah.

Mo's reaction when he realised he'd be sent back to Mogadishu when Bojangles becomes PM

[attachment=12348]

[Samseau]

(05-28-2013 03:19 AM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(05-25-2013 06:05 PM)samseau Wrote:  

Study up on the history of Lebanon or Egypt for good examples of this. Modern day Islamic Turkey has to continually deal with their extremists as well (that's why they have a mandatory draft).

This is the second time I've seen you write this about Turkey on this forum and it simply isn't true and boe jangles and I both pointed this out in another thread. Turkey doesn't have an issue with Islamic extremists. The only issues it has, which may also be why there is a mandatory draft, is the conflict with the Kurdish people. This has absolutely nothing to do with an islamic movement (Also note a huge portion of the Kurdish army are women, which would be frowned upon in an Islamic extremist group), it is a separatist movement. This is also going on in Syria, Iraq, and Iran as well. The other issue is obviously refugees from Syria, which some of the conflict is spilling over the border, but that obviously has nothing to do with the Turkish people itself. The issues are coming from Syria and not Turkey.

Considering Turkey calls itself a secular nation (even though it's 95+% Islamic, that's why I call it an Islamic republic), and considering that your average Muslim lives a life extremely similar to your average Christian, then I think it's safe to conclude that the Kurds and their separatist movement are exactly that - a bunch of Islamic extremists.

They have their women fight because they are so short on manpower. Of course that's a strong sign they're on the losing side but I don't think they have women fight because they want to disrespect their religion.

[GameTheory]

(05-26-2013 03:25 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

[...] Islam however in Europe does have huge issues that need to be brought out in open debate and addressed mainly by their own community. Until that happens and the millions of peaceful Muslims in Europe say 'enough is enough - we don't support these idiots and will root them out and hand them over whenever we find them' then we will continue to have problems and resentments.

in other words, Muslims need to clean their own house.

[InternationPlayboy]

(05-28-2013 09:39 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 03:19 AM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(05-25-2013 06:05 PM)samseau Wrote:  

Study up on the history of Lebanon or Egypt for good examples of this. Modern day Islamic Turkey has to continually deal with their extremists as well (that's why they have a mandatory draft).

This is the second time I've seen you write this about Turkey on this forum and it simply isn't true and boe jangles and I both pointed this out in another thread. Turkey doesn't have an issue with Islamic extremists. The only issues it has, which may also be why there is a mandatory draft, is the conflict with the Kurdish people. This has absolutely nothing to do with an islamic movement (Also note a huge portion of the Kurdish army are women, which would be frowned upon in an Islamic extremist group), it is a separatist movement. This is also going on in Syria, Iraq, and Iran as well. The other issue is obviously refugees from Syria, which some of the conflict is spilling over the border, but that obviously has nothing to do with the Turkish people itself. The issues are coming from Syria and not Turkey.

Considering Turkey calls itself a secular nation (even though it's 95+% Islamic, that's why I call it an Islamic republic), and considering that your average Muslim lives a life extremely similar to your average Christian, then I think it's safe to conclude that the Kurds and their separatist movement are exactly that - a bunch of Islamic extremists.

They have their women fight because they are so short on manpower. Of course that's a strong sign they're on the losing side but I don't think they have women fight because they want to disrespect their religion.

The movement has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with them wanting to become their own country. The united states are somewhat allies with the Kurds. Research the movement going on in that region and you'll see that it has very little to do with religion. They are trying to break away from parts of Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and Syria. It's not an extremist movement. The Kurds have women soldiers because in part they promote gender equality. That doesn't necessarily sounds like a group of Islamic extremists does it? You can check out this vid if you want and it will give you some perspective. Once you watch the video you'll realize they aren't a bunch of extremists... http://www.vice.com/vice-news/female-fig...tan-part-1

In the documentary, the group states their fight is for, "Democracy, freedom, equality, and education." Not one mention of Islam. The only mention they do make of religion is how Iran is a strong theocratic state that is not open and they criticize Sharia law, saying that they are living in the past while Kurdistan is trying to live in the 21st century. They even criticize the Islam law for executing women. They want to break away from a theocratic government and not want the law of islam and the government to be one in the same.

Even say that they were extremists, they don't even consider themselves Turks, they are Kurds. So either way, the Turks are still a peaceful group of Muslims. They only defend themselves. You will not really find Turkish extremists or suicide bombers in Turkey (Maybe a handful, but you can also find them in the states or western europe as well if you look. It's the exception, not the rule).

[Teedub]

(05-28-2013 09:39 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Considering Turkey calls itself a secular nation (even though it's 95+% Islamic, that's why I call it an Islamic republic), and considering that your average Muslim lives a life extremely similar to your average Christian, then I think it's safe to conclude that the Kurds and their separatist movement are exactly that - a bunch of Islamic extremists.

I usually agree with you when we discuss Islam and stuff, but you're wrong here. One of my best mates' Dad is Kurdish, and by extension I know the cousins etc. They all drink alcohol, womanize and are practically atheists as far as I can tell. Sure, some over in the homeland (if there was such a place) might be Islamists, but I don't think it's many at all. Furthermore, the Kurds have been oppressed by Iraq, Iran and Turkey.

[sheesh]

The Kurds are anything but a bunch of Islamic extremists. They are much more liberal than the average Turk. Besides, not every Kurd is a muslim, they also have Christian and Jewish minorities and other religions such as Yazidism.

[sheesh]

(05-29-2013 02:36 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 09:39 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Considering Turkey calls itself a secular nation (even though it's 95+% Islamic, that's why I call it an Islamic republic), and considering that your average Muslim lives a life extremely similar to your average Christian, then I think it's safe to conclude that the Kurds and their separatist movement are exactly that - a bunch of Islamic extremists.

I usually agree with you when we discuss Islam and stuff, but you're wrong here. One of my best mates' Dad is Kurdish, and by extension I know the cousins etc. They all drink alcohol, womanize and are practically atheists as far as I can tell. Sure, some over in the homeland (if there was such a place) might be Islamists, but I don't think it's many at all. Furthermore, the Kurds have been oppressed by Iraq, Iran and Turkey.

I even know ( non Christian) Kurds who have a Christmas tree at home during the holiday season. I bet you won't see this often among Turks.

Oh, yeah, and the women have great asses !! The only draw back is that they are usually very hairy. Some Kurdish women have more hair on their forearms than the average white guy has on his whole body, lol.

[Teedub]

^ Haha, my mates sister is pretty hot, but she's only half Kurdish and looks/is white. Would self identify as white. Her and my mate are not Kurdish culturally at all. Just by descent. Although I think they can speak the language actually. In fact my mate disses Muslims and stuff, yet never admits to people that technically, he is one - because his Dad is! Funny story - once when my mate was having a massive argument with his Dad, he turned around to him and said "Fuck off, you paki"! (His Dad looks visibly 'Middle Eastern'/Muslim - and as I said earlier, "paki" is the default for anyone like that)

[InternationPlayboy]

(05-29-2013 05:58 AM)sheesh Wrote:  

I even know ( non Christian) Kurds who have a Christmas tree at home during the holiday season. I bet you won't see this often among Turks.

Funny you mention it. A couple years back when I was in Brazil, I was watching something on the news about how more and more Turks are celebrating Christmas. My girlfriends family celebrates Christmas (She is Turkish, born there but moved to Austria when she was 7. Her family still owns a home there and almost all of her extended family still lives in Turkey). I'm sure the numbers are pretty damn small. But it was basically just a clip of how turkey is becoming more and more liberal.

My girlfriend just got back from Turkey on Monday. She doesn't like jews because of her own personal reasons, but having nothing to do with religion, more because she has been fucked over financially by them. She was telling me how her Turkish cousin who grew up there was telling her how much she loved Jews and went as far as to say she would actually marry a Jewish man. That surprised me even for a person being from a liberal Islamic country.

Speaking of moderate muslim nations, here's a list of some more:

Uzbekistan
Kazakhstan
Azerbaijan
Tajikistan
Kyrgyzstan
Turkmenistan
Albania
Mauritania
Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
Kosovo

On top of all those, I would also think that many of the Arab African countries are quite moderate, but I don't know much about them so I won't put them on the list. Countries like Niger and Chad. Yes there is war in those countries, but it's all political, not religious. Hell, it's Africa, there's war everywhere.

[Teedub]

This documentary is interesting. It's the BBC, so a leftist bias is to be expected though. It features an extremely naive girl named Stacey Dooley exploring the Islamist-EDL conflict in her home town of Luton, a town that gave rise to the EDL and is also known as a "hotbed" of Islamist extremism. Typically from the BBC, she gets to wear the full veil and experience "racism" from the town's people. I suppose some of the BBC's well intentioned bias comes from supporting the underdog, however the 'overdog' is always the straight, white male.

[Sebastian]

Will get someone offended if I say why muslim countries are not developed? like communist countries?

Those countries someone mentioned right above, who knows they even exist?

[Mac Chicken]

(05-29-2013 11:25 AM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 05:58 AM)sheesh Wrote:  

I even know ( non Christian) Kurds who have a Christmas tree at home during the holiday season. I bet you won't see this often among Turks.

Funny you mention it. A couple years back when I was in Brazil, I was watching something on the news about how more and more Turks are celebrating Christmas. My girlfriends family celebrates Christmas (She is Turkish, born there but moved to Austria when she was 7. Her family still owns a home there and almost all of her extended family still lives in Turkey). I'm sure the numbers are pretty damn small. But it was basically just a clip of how turkey is becoming more and more liberal.

My girlfriend just got back from Turkey on Monday. She doesn't like jews because of her own personal reasons, but having nothing to do with religion, more because she has been fucked over financially by them. She was telling me how her Turkish cousin who grew up there was telling her how much she loved Jews and went as far as to say she would actually marry a Jewish man. That surprised me even for a person being from a liberal Islamic country.

Speaking of moderate muslim nations, here's a list of some more:

Uzbekistan
Kazakhstan
Azerbaijan
Tajikistan
Kyrgyzstan
Turkmenistan
Albania
Mauritania
Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
Kosovo

On top of all those, I would also think that many of the Arab African countries are quite moderate, but I don't know much about them so I won't put them on the list. Countries like Niger and Chad. Yes there is war in those countries, but it's all political, not religious. Hell, it's Africa, there's war everywhere.

Are you sure about Mauritania being a moderate muslim nations ? The country is called "islamic republic" and I think they are more conservative than north african countries from what I heard.

[InternationPlayboy]

Yeah maybe I shouldn't have put that one on the list either because I don't know about that area. I just know I've never heard of any extremists coming from there.

[InternationPlayboy]

@ Sebastian, Most Latin countries are too. Shit, half the world is.

[misello]

You guys are focussing way too much on Islam, as do European media and politicians. Europe's biggest problem isn't Islam, it's what the title says: (extreme) demographic changes. UK, France, Germany, they've allowed mainly low educated people from mostly low developed countries to grow from 10 to over 50% of the population of their cities in a mere 20 years. That would fuck up any country.

[AFspecOps]

Japan takes the opposite approach, as witnessed in this now famous video (sorry if this is a repost):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it8wuJ21LlM (This is Muslim punch; you die!)

This Pakistani Muslim and family illegally entered Japan, claiming refugee status saying their life had been threatened by the Taliban. But his application was denied by Japanese officials. So he concocted a story about how his daughter was sick and needed medical help. While the Japanese were reviewing his application again, he grew impatient and barged into the immigration office, demanding a decision immediately, or else he and his family were going to commit suicide right there. He was quickly deported.

The Japanese don't take any shyt from the Muslims. They view their culture as completely opposite of their own.

[AFspecOps]

(05-28-2013 06:40 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

Turkey is not even Islamic in the sense that it is a secular republic. You can be whatever religion you want and the state has no official religion.

Well, they certainly don't have freedom of speech. Turkey jailed more journalists than any other country in the world last year.


..... and look at how desperately they are trying to enter the EU. If that happens, you will see emmigration like never before.

[AFspecOps]

One of the reasons the biggest mosque in the US is to be built in MD is because of the influence of Fethullah Gulen and the Gulen Movement. The leader of this Movement is living in self-imposed exile, close by in PA. When the Turkish delegation was here recently for the ceremony, many of them traveled to spend time with Gulen himself. Gulen is filthy rich and has benefited from the generous backing of US taxpayers, partially due to his chain of public charter schools all over the world. In fact the largest chain of public charter schools in the US is back by the Gulen Movement.

Turkish leaders that were in attendance have been quoted as saying that their “work in America is a kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within'. Gulen himself says the way to infiltrate is 'You must move in the arteries of the system without anyone noticing your existence until you reach all the power centers … until the conditions are ripe'.

In typical Islamic double-speak, the facility is to be called: The Turkish American Culture and Civilization Center. The local US authorities welcomed them with open arms.

Can we say 'Stealth Jihad'?

[InternationPlayboy]

My question to you guys go think Muslims are extremist terrorists and the worst shit in the world, what percent of Muslims do you think are actually extremists? I think 5% would be a very liberal estimate. I work with mad Muslims and I can't think of one that's an asshole.

I'm not sitting here trying to say I think the Muslim religion is great, because I don't think any religion is. I just think so many people are ignorant about what it really is. Most Muslims don't want to murder Christians. If I was native to an area where the roles were reversed I would defend Christianity as well.

[Wutang]

I would agree that a very low number of Muslims are violent. I wouldn't be surprised if it was less then 5%. But with so many Muslims in the world, even 5% would add up to quite a large gross number. Yeah it does suck for the other 95% of Muslims since it only takes a few people to really cause havoc.

[Tex Pro]

(05-29-2013 07:05 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

My question to you guys go think Muslims are extremist terrorists and the worst shit in the world, what percent of Muslims do you think are actually extremists? I think 5% would be a very liberal estimate. I work with mad Muslims and I can't think of one that's an asshole.

I'm not sitting here trying to say I think the Muslim religion is great, because I don't think any religion is. I just think so many people are ignorant about what it really is. Most Muslims don't want to murder Christians. If I was native to an area where the roles were reversed I would defend Christianity as well.

Problem is a small % percentage can cause a lot of havoc. See WTC bombers, 9/11 hijackers, Boston bombers, etc. I don't want to have to worry about getting bombed every time I go to a sporting event or board a plane, bus, train, etc. That type of shit should be unacceptable, and Muslim extremists (and any Muslims who support that kind of shit) need to be called out.

[InternationPlayboy]

Really? You're really worried every time you board a plane, train, or bus? Maybe your main concern should be getting into a wreck, because I can promise you that WAAAYYYY more people die every year in wrecks than terrorist attacks in the us. You know how many people in the US have died in terrorist attacks since 911? I don't remember the stat and I'm on my phone so I'm not gonna look it up, but pretty sure the number is below 100. How about a war on obesity? You know how many people die of obesity each year?! If you are really worried about a terrorist attack on your plane you're straight up paranoid.